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4177Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?

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  • Ma-li
    Dec 6, 2008
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      Liska,
       
      I totally agree with what you stated in your last paragraph.  Would that I had known that years aog, it might have saved me a lot of problems.  However, then I would not have learned all the truths I did find thru Eckankar, and for that I'm eternally grateful.  I'm right where I'm supposed to be, in the perfect place and in the perfect moment.
       
      Namaste,
       
      Ma-li

      --- On Sat, 12/6/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: What now?
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, December 6, 2008, 11:52 AM

      Etznab, your comments are constructive and I concur with what you said
      below...

      "I agree that a lot can be learned from
      others, while at the same time I suspect
      there is a not so well noticed connection
      between how people search and what they
      actually find.

      What I mean to say is that I believe one's
      paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
      happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
      replaced by another. A better one. Because
      the former seems to become old and like all
      the juice squeezed out of the lemon."

      Due to the temporary nature of this world and everything in it, all
      things have their place and value in time. As individual consciousness
      evolves, old concepts no longer fit and the Soul moves on to newer and
      greater horizons. It's what we all did when we rejected the idea of an
      infallible master. I myself, realized that there is only God - Soul
      and nothing in-between. Anyone who declares themselves an intermediary
      between God and Soul is a fraud.

      Regards
      Liska

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, etznab@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > "My primary goal is personal experience,
      > but reading other people's works helps focus
      > my attention on something greater than day
      > to day mundane existence."
      >
      > I agree that a lot can be learned from
      > others, while at the same time I suspect
      > there is a not so well noticed connection
      > between how people search and what they
      > actually find.
      >
      > What I mean to say is that I believe one's
      > paths can come like wishes fulfilled. What
      > happens, eventually, is that the wish gets
      > replaced by another. A better one. Because
      > the former seems to become old and like all
      > the juice squeezed out of the lemon.
      >
      > Not wishing, or taking an initiative, might
      > seem to leave the same old, same old over
      > and over like a broken record.
      >
      > This is one of the traps I have found myself
      > in time and time again. By limiting myself to
      > only certain specific paradigms, listening and
      > reading only certain specific authors and then
      > thinking along only certain specific lines.
      >
      > I like to meet a variety of different people &
      > hear about a variety of different experiences.
      > In fact, I think if one would consider how many
      > different people there are in the world, and that
      > much potential for experience were available to
      > them, it might not sound too impossible how
      > one part of the "universe" could answer another
      > part. I suspect initiative at both ends of relation-
      > ships.
      >
      > Etznab
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: drubezarn
      > e <drubezarne@ ...>
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
      > Sent: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 11:16 am
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: What now?
      >
      >
      >
      > Prometheus, I agree with you practically 100% of the time about
      >
      > Eckankar's charlatans and other frauds who want to act as
      >
      > intermediaries between God and Soul. On the other hand, concerning
      >
      > your views about all other teachings I would have to disagree.
      >
      >
      >
      > When I look closely at certain teachings or teachers who seem sincere
      >
      > in their approach to bringing out truth, I detect a subtle golden
      >
      > thread that runs throughout history. I'm not interested in the
      >
      > limitations of orthodoxy or its insistence that I'm supposed to
      >
      > imitate their way of life. Instead, I try to find writers who seem
      >
      > honest and aren't looking for followers to make their living from or
      >
      > boost their egos.
      >
      >
      >
      > I take what I think sounds true and test it out for myself. For
      >
      > example, I found Neville's "as if" principle extremely effective in
      >
      > meditation/contempl ation. On the inner planes, thinking and
      >
      > visualization bring about events very quickly and that's when
      >
      > assumptions can take me very far. After a while, I drop them because
      >
      > they are no longer necessary.
      >
      >
      >
      > The sound paths such as Sant Mat are helpful for getting into a trance
      >
      > state while still retaining awareness. They are useful for numbing the
      >
      > body and moving the consciousness beyond physical a
      > wareness. However,
      >
      > I don't believe in focusing on or visualizing a master. I prefer to
      >
      > place my attention on the formless.
      >
      >
      >
      > Laurency's writings about Pythagorean Hylozoics appears to give one of
      >
      > the best explanations for our existence.
      >
      >
      >
      > By the way, Mish and Liz, I listened to the Jed McKenna audio books
      >
      > and found a lot of references to Ramana Maharshi's writings. McKenna's
      >
      > books influenced me to look into Maharshi's works. Ford's book
      >
      > motivated me to look into Laurency's writings.
      >
      >
      >
      > My primary goal is personal experience, but reading other people's
      >
      > works helps focus my attention on something greater than day to day
      >
      > mundane existence.
      >
      >
      >
      > I don't believe in masters, but I do believe in teachers. If I want to
      >
      > learn how to play piano, I'll find someone to teach me. The teacher is
      >
      > there to show me the quickest and best way to get there, while my role
      >
      > is to practice and develop my own style of playing.
      >
      >
      >
      > All of us on this forum have been victims of the Eckankar racket and I
      >
      > don't blame people for becoming cynics and debunkers of all
      >
      > spiritual/religious teachings after leaving Eckankar. As for myself, I
      >
      > don't plan to spend much more time putting my energies into debunking
      >
      > Eckankar. The critical faculty has its uses, but when taken to the
      >
      > extreme it kills off idealism. There's a lot more I want to explore
      >
      > and test before20declaring "Everyone seems to be selling something for
      >
      > one reason or another."
      >
      >
      >
      > Call me an optimist, but I believe there are and were a few select
      >
      > individuals who just wanted to bring out the truth because they woke
      >
      > up to or achieved a certain high state of awareness. So, I don't think
      >
      > selling, promoting, and persuading were their goals in life.
      >
      >
      >
      > Regards
      >
      > Liska
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, "prometheus_ 973"
      >
      > prometheus_973@ wrote:
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; Hello Ma-li,
      >
      > &gt; I thought I'd respond as well. For one
      >
      > &gt; thing I can't recommend anything to
      >
      > &gt; read, but I find many of the resources
      >
      > &gt; listed on this site to be interesting.
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; As far as believing these and other sources
      >
      > &gt; of info I don't! It's too easily to accept anything
      >
      > &gt; and everything by the so called "experts." I
      >
      > &gt; definitely don't buy into it or need to. Everyone
      >
      > &gt; seems to be selling something for one reason
      >
      > &gt; or another. The Truth is out there, is usually
      >
      > &gt; subjective, and is found within by each Soul.
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; Ma-li wrote:
      >
      > &gt; [snip]
      >
      > &gt; "Would anyone like to share with me how you
      >
      > &gt; handled it when you decided to leave, and
      >
      > &gt; especially what did you do about the spiritual
      >
      > &gt; exercises? If Jesus, the Mahanta, and all the
      >
      > &gt
      > ; Eck Masters never really existed, except in
      >
      > &gt; writers' fertile minds, then who/what is
      >
      > &gt; left but God?"
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; *ME: Well, I'd known for a long time that
      >
      > &gt; many things in ECKankar just didn't make
      >
      > &gt; sense and didn't add up even though I wanted
      >
      > &gt; it to. I really wanted to believe in the Mahanta,
      >
      > &gt; and in the initiations but it was getting tougher
      >
      > &gt; every time Klemp or one of his higher H.I.s
      >
      > &gt; opened his/her mouths. Klemp's nutty and
      >
      > &gt; one dimensional stories didn't help either.
      >
      > &gt; I found that I had to put blinders on and hold
      >
      > &gt; my nose in order to swallow it in order to sound
      >
      > &gt; believable to others.
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; However, I've always known and had proof of
      >
      > &gt; Soul, the Holy Spirit or Spirit, and of GOD (WhatEver).
      >
      > &gt; I don't know of the workings or of the Why and How
      >
      > &gt; of many specifics outside of my realm of experience
      >
      > &gt; and of those spiritual Beings that I know who walk
      >
      > &gt; amongst us. I stopped my EK spiritual exercises
      >
      > &gt; or at least the way I used to do them. BTW-Many
      >
      > &gt; long-time H.I.s don't do real spiritual exercises
      >
      > &gt; because they're too busy. Sitting outside and taking
      >
      > &gt; in Nature is a very pleasant experience and I do still
      >
      > &gt; HU from time to time. Ever since I left ECKankar I
      >
      > &gt; can experience a
      > Oneness with All There Is and a
      >
      > &gt; Contentment that I could never achieve while under
      >
      > &gt; the Stress of the EK org! It's quite amazing to give
      >
      > &gt; up what you seek in order to find it! But, this is nothing
      >
      > &gt; new is it?
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; "God has always been the "real" aspect of my
      >
      > &gt; beliefs. IT is in everything, be it rocks, trees,
      >
      > &gt; the two-legged beings, the four-legged beings,
      >
      > &gt; the winged, or the swimming beings. IT is the
      >
      > &gt; warm Summer breeze that tickles the leaves.
      >
      > &gt; IT is the rain that gives and sustains life for
      >
      > &gt; the rooted beings. IT is everywhere in everything.
      >
      > &gt; IT IS ME, and I AM IT."
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; *ME: YES! IT IS! I am finding that being outside
      >
      > &gt; and walking silently (no I-Pod) or sitting and
      >
      > &gt; observing Nature is very contemplative and
      >
      > &gt; peaceful. But, the I-Pod is nice too at times!
      >
      > &gt; The past tunes take one back to one's youth
      >
      > &gt; and beyond and into other times as does reading
      >
      > &gt; about or watching history on TV. It's good to
      >
      > &gt; know about how we became who we are and
      >
      > &gt; what we think we are in order to know more
      >
      > &gt; about Soul and the I AM of Beingness.
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; "All this being said, I don't know what to do
      >
      > &gt; about spiritual exercises, or how to progres
      > s
      >
      > &gt; from here. It's like I'm standing alone once again,
      >
      > &gt; and need to make a choice about what to do next.
      >
      > &gt; If someone would care to share their experiences
      >
      > &gt; and choices from this point, I'd appreciate it. You
      >
      > &gt; can use my private email if you'd prefer."
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; *ME: Don't do anything for now. It will come to you.
      >
      > &gt; Maybe you could explore the Why? Why did you
      >
      > &gt; buy into ECKankar for as long as you did? Was it
      >
      > &gt; because of friends and/or the promise of God-
      >
      > &gt; Realization via Initiation? Many people have trouble
      >
      > &gt; giving it up and letting it go because of peer pressure.
      >
      > &gt; I admit that I thought those Higher Initiations would
      >
      > &gt; give clarity to it all and it did because I saw the lies
      >
      > &gt; after reading Confessions of a God Seeker. And, after
      >
      > &gt; I left the clarity was even greater! It finally came together
      >
      > &gt; and I saw the con and the realized why there were so
      >
      > &gt; many flaws and knew that Klemp had neither Powers or
      >
      > &gt; a Higher Consciousness! The "WHY" is important to
      >
      > &gt; me because if I didn't learn about the WHY and my
      >
      > &gt; reasons for joining ECKankar then I could repeat the
      >
      > &gt; same mistake again. Knowing thyself is important!
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; [snip]
      >
      > &gt; Ma-li (also) wrote:
      >
      > &gt; "...Then the doubts
      > and mental processes begin
      >
      > &gt; working until he's got himself almost convinced
      >
      > &gt; he really screwed up the test, but he doesn't want
      >
      > &gt; to go back and change answers because he also
      >
      > &gt; feels he did the best he could.
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; What does he do to fill the empty space?"
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; *ME: JUST BE! Twitchell even said this at one time
      >
      > &gt; (before he took it back!). I wonder where he stole
      >
      > &gt; it from? I think I read it in The Path of the Masters!
      >
      > &gt; Still, it's true! The thing is.... we don't need no stinkin'
      >
      > &gt; middleman/Mahanta or Religion! We are our own
      >
      > &gt; Masters in the making.
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; When one follows another they give up their ability
      >
      > &gt; to choose and to discover their own Truth. They
      >
      > &gt; give up any hope of Self Mastery. Most people need
      >
      > &gt; a religion to believe in when they can't believe in
      >
      > &gt; Self. However, the True Seeker discovers Truth in
      >
      > &gt; Everything and need Not follow anyone or any dogma.
      >
      > &gt; No Thing becomes the IS of one's Beingness.
      >
      > &gt;
      >
      > &gt; Prometheus
      >
      > &gt;
      >


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