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4067Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: I'm new here...

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  • Ma-li
    Nov 8, 2008
      You have no idea what a kick in the butt this has been to learn that something I really believed in for so long, is pure fiction for the most part....that fraud has been perpetrated on so many for financial gain, for power, and without a thought for the harm done to the hundres/thousands who actually bought into the "dream".
      Several years ago I was asked by the RESA if I thought a 6th initiation for B. was acceptable, and if I'd approve one.  B. was dying of cancer.  At the time I had no idea why she was asking me since she never wanted my opinion on anything else.  Of course, I said yes, that B really deserved it since she was such a dedicated Eckist.  I knew the two women didn't get along...B had told me many times of the nasty things the other did and said.  In fact, she's the one who told me the other had written ESC that I was inactive.  Anyway,  I thought no more about the incident or initiations, until years later when I began to wonder why "the inner Master who sees all, and knows all" would need to ask the RESA and a 5th about someone's innitiation.  I suspected then that things weren't as they seemed.
      Today I wonder why she chose to ask me if I would recommend the initiation.  I know she didn't like B or me, and maybe she just wanted to refuse B her dying wish.  Doesn't matter now anyway.  This whole subject brings up a lot of bitter feelings and memories, and reminders of the back peddaling the former RESA did when I asked about things.  There was always an excuse, and always "because the Mahanta said so".  Just can't believe they got so much stuff "on the inner" that concerned me. 
      If I dared to say any of this to any of the eck friends, they would be horrified, and I would be ostracized.....not that I'm not already on the outside....way out of the loop.  It feels good to unload what has been on my mind, but there's still a little voice saying I'm going to get into big trouble for this.  Sure hope it's just paranoia.
      Thanks for the link.  I'll read it later today.

      --- On Sat, 11/8/08, drubezarne <drubezarne@...> wrote:
      From: drubezarne <drubezarne@...>
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: I'm new here...
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 9:53 AM

      Ma-li, I've been in that position when RESAS would ask my opinion
      about other eckists up for initiation (company promotion). If Klemp
      was what he claimed to be - omniscient and omnipotent, there wouldn't
      be a need for this kind of thing. He would know everything and make
      his determination based on a person's spiritual unfoldment. It's
      another example showing he's a fake.

      Yes, Paul Twitchell made it all up. What he didn't make up, he stole
      from other writers and claimed as his own awe-inspiring insights.
      Remember, like Ron Hubbard, Twitchell was a third-rate science fiction
      writer. He learned from his mentor that writing books was not going to
      get him rich and give him the recognition he craved. So, he made up a
      religion/cult and put himself at the head of it.

      He didn't really get away with the plagiarism. It's dogging
      Eckankar today. You've seen references to it all over the web. Try
      writing Peter Skelsky, Harold Klemp, or Jack Heil about the
      plagiarism. You're never going to hear back from any of them.

      Yes, the female Eck Master is another mythical being promoted by Klemp
      to appease his female followers. He never explained how a female
      becomes an Eck Master even though the Shariyat says a female can never
      be the Living Eck Master.

      It's good that you're getting rid of all that poison by expressing
      your doubts on this forum.


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com, Ma-li
      <mhstarlings@ ...> wrote:
      > Good Morning All,
      > Looks like the few Eckists thee were in this area back in the
      beginning, missed the boat on the 7th initiations by the late 80s
      -early 90s.  The highest there was then was a 4th.  Oh well...
      > If I am understanding you, people like me will never get further
      because we don't have the resources, have health issues, or may have
      pissed off someone higher up who is now in a position of power re:
      initiations etc.  Gee, do you think when the RESA's best friend takes
      it upon herself to write ESC that another chela isn't an active
      member, that it would make a difference?  Especially, if that person
      then becomes RESA after the friend steps down a year later, and
      remains there for over a decade.
      > In the above instance, I was an active member in as much that I paid
      my yearly membership, wrote reports, and went to functions when I was
      able.  I just wasn't in the same class as the above mentioned people. 
      I was a small business owner, they were in the medical profession by
      marriage.  I didn't have the money or the time they had to devote to
      promoting Eckanakar.  Maybe I'm all wet about this, but I noticed
      after ESC was told by this 4th that I was inactive, other chela's kept
      getting their initiations, but I never got another one.  At some point
      I didn't really care anymore, and there were too many inconsistencies
      about many things in the ECK community.  I have never been an ass
      kisser, and don't plan to start at this point. lol
      > I do know that when word gets out that I'v left the path, I will no
      longer be friends with several of the people...not by my choice, but
      by theirs.  Then the gossip will fly, and all sorts of things that
      aren't true will be spread about the area.  Small price to pay for
      > In short, guess I didn't play the game very well.  Of course, I
      never knew there was a game when it came to one's spiritual beliefs. 
      Thought we were all on the same page, and were there for spiritual
      growth.  Hadn't a clue that it was just like in the business world,
      and the little, honest, hardworking guy gets stepped on by those
      wanting whatever place of power was available.  I don't understand the
      need for power, and for causing grief for others.  Power makes for
      strange bedfellows.
      > The thing that appealed to me in the beginning was that Eckankar was
      an individual path.  In a way that's BS, and I see that now.  Makes me
      wonder about the many who are new to the path.  When, if ever, will
      they reach the point I've reached, and will they be as confused about
      it as I've been?  I didn't have a clue about all the things that have
      gone down until I read some of the links on your group home page. 
      Blew my mind, to say the least.  So much deception, outright lies, and
      corruption by those we put our trust in.  Eckankar, the path that was
      supposed to be different, is no different that any other religion. 
      Granted, there is truth to be learned from studying it, but then,
      there is truth in all religions.  We just have to discern what's truth
      from what's garbage.
      > Did Paul just make up the number he used as LEM to lend creadence to
      the ancientness of his religion?  If he made it all up, how did he get
      away with the plagerism etc.? 
      > Was the "new" female ECK Master also a fabrication by HK to pacify
      the women coming to the path?  Seems I can remember someone telling me
      many years ago that there could never be a female because of energies,
      or such. 
      > How do you clip these posts in Yahoo so that they don't go on
      forever and ever?
      > Namaste
      > Ma-li
      > --- On Fri, 11/7/08, prometheus_973 <prometheus_ 973@...> wrote:
      > From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_ 973@...>
      > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsA nonymous] Re: I'm new here...
      > To: EckankarSurvivorsAn onymous@yahoogro ups.com
      > Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 11:14 AM
      > Hello Mi-li and All,
      > Many of those active chelas joining EK
      > in 1973, under Darwin, had become
      > 7ths in the mid to late 1980's or by
      > 1991. Many others remained 6ths.
      > However, most of those who have the
      > 6th and are ESAs will be promoted to
      > the 7th when they become RESAs. This
      > is how HK maintains a reserve for the
      > RESA position.
      > Klemp did replace some of those, of high
      > rank, when the split occurred in 1984,
      > but then he slowed other initiations down
      > due to DG sending out 500 5th initiation
      > pink slips before leaving (late 1983?).
      > Unfortunately, HK's been stingy with higher
      > initiations above the 5th and, especially,
      > with any above the 7th!
      > What's really ironic is that those chelas
      > Darwin skipped initiations on or who
      > were only 4ths for a few months before
      > getting their 5ths became Klemp's RESAs!
      > Those 500 pink slips that DG sent out for
      > the 5th was no worse than giving Klemp
      > and Company all of their "fast tracked"
      > initiations!
      > Now, however, a 5th needs to become
      > a Cleric (and maybe an Initiator) before
      > they will be eligible for the 6th, and
      > a 6th needs to become an ESA before
      > they are eligible for the 7th. Of course,
      > this process can vary some depending
      > upon the RESA but it usually takes a lot
      > of "training" and volunteer work (jumping
      > through hoops) and a lot of H.I. networking
      > and RESA ass kissing!
      > In many Satsang Societies the area H.I.s
      > are called by the RESA when the "Initiation
      > List" comes down from the ESC. They do
      > this to get a yea or nay, but have to explain
      > why they've given the nay. Thus, in many
      > cases it's the computer generated list based
      > on one's membership date and last initiation
      > date and the approval of local H.I.s that
      > determine whether or not someone will
      > or won't get that next initiation. Of course,
      > the local RESA has, mostly, the last word.
      > If most ECKists knew how initiations were
      > really done they would know that the rest
      > of the crap about "inner communication"
      > with the Mahanta was a lie as well!
      > FYI-One, usually, had to keep in touch
      > with others (H.I.s) and teach a Satsang Class
      > etc. in order to get recognition for promotion.
      > Of course, chelas needed to keep that EK
      > membership current too. Otherwise, one
      > can/will get passed over for initiation.
      > Keeping in touch with and on a friendly
      > basis with the RESA also helps with promotion.
      > And, one has to watch one's "language."
      > You cannot share other beliefs and question
      > or "second guess" the Mahanta. The 2012
      > myth or prediction is one such thing that
      > would raise a red flag. Many chelas who
      > are in rural areas, are disabled, and don't
      > see or talk to other ECKists on a regular
      > basis need to know how to play-the-game.
      > BTW- Maybe Klemp is waiting until 2018
      > to step down as LEM/Mahanta. That would
      > give him 36 (completed) years or Three 12
      > year cycles! It seems HK and his inflated ego
      > wants to go down in history as the biggest
      > and best Bullshitter in EK history... even above
      > Twitchell! Plus, his comments about the "in
      > training" versus the "full" Mahanta prevents
      > anyone, after him, from being seen as "high."
      > This is typical behaviour for a narcissist!
      > Prometheus
      > Hello Prometheus,
      > Reckon I better clarify the Ma-li and I are one and the same. Don't
      know how to use
      > Yahoo mail very well, and might have clicked/checked something I
      shouldn't have.
      > Ok, As I said, I have been on this path since 1973. I never bought
      the lifetime
      > membership because I couldn't afford it. Anyway, you would expect
      that after all these
      > years I would be a "really" high initiate, but I'm "only" a 5th.
      When I would quesstion the
      > RESA about the slowness, she'd say that Harold was slowing things
      down because too
      > many were getting to far too fast. Sounded wrong to me, but what did
      I know...I was just
      > a lowly peon at the time. Of course, we couldn't question the Master
      about it or there
      > would never be another intiiation. God forbid I'd be a lowly loser
      forever. lol
      > Decades passed, and in 1991 I received my 5th. Yipee, I finally was
      there with the big
      > boys. Funny thing, nothing changed. Was that initiation all it was
      cracked up to be, or
      > was it just hype? Surely you rememeber when proceedure changed, and
      5th's no longer
      > automatically became clerics without taking the training. I was
      grandfathered in because I
      > had been a 5th for so long. Once again years passed, and I dodn't
      give much thought to
      > my staus as a cleric. As I said, I have a disability that precludes
      much interaction with
      > people in public settings.
      > Then I get a letter from headquarters wanting me to fill out and
      sign a form so they can
      > have a private company do a criminal background check. This was to
      make sure I wasn't a
      > child predator, molester etc. Talk about a slap in the face!!!! It
      was for insurance
      > purposes, they said. Ok, I can accept that, but when I talked to
      various other friends who
      > are ministers at Christian churches, they were appalled. They hadn't
      had to have
      > background checks. All that aside, there was no way I would consent
      to more government
      > interference in my life, and refused to sign. Told them why also. (I
      had just been
      > informed that I had to change out my DSL box for the new one that
      gives the gov't access
      > to my pc...according to the new law.) Those two letters really
      ticked me off.
      > Long story short, after several correspondences, I still refused to
      bow to their wishes, or to
      > talk to the RESA(whom I do not know) about my decision. The told me
      to send back my
      > certificate and ID card. Wow! I NEVER got a certificate in the first
      place, and had no idea
      > such a thing even existed. Sent them the ID card, and that was the
      end of it. How much
      > attention is paid if they never sent me one, and why have 17 years
      passed between
      > initiations? I know the answer to that, but that's for another time.
      Computers are
      > marvelous things when they do the job that is supposed to be done
      "on the inner". Oops.
      > Namaste
      > Ma-li
      > Prometheus wrote:
      > Hello Skypilot and welcome to the site!
      > I'm curious to know what the ESC (head-
      > quarters) did recently to make you feel
      > uncomfortable and for you to have even
      > more misgivings. What are some of the
      > things that just don't feel right to you
      > anymore? Please share more.
      > It's true, the so called "Law of Silence"
      > is a subdued way to manipulate chelas
      > just as "Surrender" is. Thus, nobody is
      > permitted to question things like the
      > need for those Metal Detectors or Searches,
      > or the fact that these still exist due to Klemp's
      > fears and paranoia of past events (9/11).
      > Actually, I didn't know of many H.I.s that
      > had a "glow" but I did know plenty that
      > were either insane, deluded, gullible, or
      > were egotistical (narcissistic) wannabes
      > and fake.
      > The "glow" effect was usually a temporary
      > phenomena and appeared when people were
      > trying to make a positive impression when
      > around other ECKists, or were so detached,
      > aloof and deluded that they couldn't relate,
      > with any empathy, as to what others were
      > going through. Some actually believed
      > they were having a "spiritual experience."
      > One can get caught up in the whole "spiritual"
      > feel good thing. Others just had fake smiles
      > and know how to "play" a room or a crowd.
      > However, for those who really "believed"
      > it was typically a 2nd or 4th Plane "religious"
      > or psychic experience just like with any other
      > feel good religion. Many times it was just an
      > "as if" act. Anyway, those are my impressions.
      > Prometheus
      > Skypilot4mr Wrote:
      > I am a new member of this group,
      > and don't know exactly how to do
      > things here. So, I am just jumping
      > in with an email to introduce myself.
      > I have been a member of Eckankar
      > since 1973, and have been debating
      > with myself for the last few years about
      > leaving the path. There are just too many
      > things that don't feel right to me anymore.
      > I live in a rural community, have a disability
      > that precludes my going to ECK functions,
      > and there is no one in the ECK community
      > in the entire area, that I feel comfortable
      > talking to about my misgivings. They still
      > have "the glow" about being Eckists, and
      > I feel there must be something wrong with
      > me that I don't buy into everything anymore.
      > After reading a few posts on this site,
      > I now realize there are others like me
      > who "see" things just aren't right anymore...
      > if they ever were. I am an HI, but it really
      > doesn't mean anything to me anymore...
      > especially after what headquarters did
      > recently. I am in a quandry. This doesn't
      > go into much depth, but I'm writing in the
      > blind right now.
      > Hope to get to know you folks better,
      > and you get to know me too.
      > Skypilot4mr

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