3554Re: It's All About Harold . . . Here!
- Jul 3, 2008Hi Mish and All,
I liked your post! I think that Marman's real
motives for doing what he's doing stems from
ego. He likes to talk and talk and talk. He seems
to need the attention (and money).
Marman talks about Twitchell's distortions (lies)
and even of how PT substituted fictional characters
and names for real people, but explains this away
as being some sort of "paradox!" LOL! However,
a Lie is still a Lie! Apparently, "outer" lies justify
the "higher" message. But Twitchell lied about
that as well!
By Any Means Necessary is not the foundation
by which to build trust or an organization, but
it does seem to fit perfectly with the philosophy
that other religions and governments tend to
practice continuously! Therefore, Twitchell's and
Klemp's Eckankar Church is in good company!
Doug doesn't understand that the "inner"
imaginations and "spiritual" experiences
and "miracles" of other people in other
religions, outside of Eckankar, are even more
valid than those "experiences" that members
of Eckankar have! There are far more and
far greater "spiritual" experiences and
"inspiration" Outside of Eckankar than Inside
For example: Rumi was Not an ECKist regardless
of what the liars claim! Besides, as I've stated before...
Klemp talks out of both sides of his mouth
when he promotes Rumi to ECKists while putting
down Rumi's religion (i.e. beliefs and inspiration)
as being from a 2nd or 4th Plane God who Klemp,
as well as, PT's EK Dogma claims is KAL or SATAN!
Just look at HK's comments in his "Autobiography
of a Modern Prophet" on page 385. Also, look
at the index in the Shariyat (EK's Holy Book) for
"Satan" and you will discover that this is another
name for Kal.
Klemp (Marman & Eckankar) see the "God" that
all other religions worship as being a 2nd or 4th
Plane God who is also known as Kal and Satan!
Whereas, Klemp (the walking talking and real God)
claims to reside on all planes up to and including
the 14th Plane... and even higher! Amazing... No,
not really... it's an obvious lie! Klemp is more like
a second class Pope, or a Billy Graham poser!
Really! Klemp can't even heal his loyal followers of
cancer! 4th Plane Jesus would be able to!
The proof is in the pudding! This seems to be
a blind spot for all ECKists, especially, Marman!
And, reality requires more than just a vivid imagination,
and positive thinking. Being in denial of Truth is
the real sickness!
What it really comes down to is Don't Trust Anyone
to tell you about God or Spirit or Soul... trust yourself!
If you can't trust yourself (yet) just don't buy into the
whole load of what others are telling you. Take what
you need or works for you the individual Soul at this
time. Unfortunately, most ECKists will claim to use this
method, as well, but they delude themselves. They
need to pay that annual membership "donation" in
order to still be eligible for those coveted initiations
and they "need" to be co-dependent upon a middleman/
Mahanta for their "spiritual" validation to exist!
Klemp teaches ECKists to become powerless and unable
to take responsibility for their own actions. The chela gives
all power over to the "Inner Master" (Klemp) and thereby
denies their own. EK chelas and H.I.s should have an end
goal in mind for this lifetime. This should lead to Self-Mastery
absent of religion, religious leaders and middlemen!
It's a real Catch-22 ploy but those like Klemp, as well
as his underlings, will use various tactics to twist the
truth in order to manipulate those fearful, gullible and
trusting. Once one has elevated another to a pedestal
to be admired it usually takes a real shock or revelation
to show one the Truth. Until that happens one can only
point out the similarities of Eckankar to other religious
frauds! ECKists need to think back to their real spiritual
goals before joining Eckankar... it didn't have anything
to do with initiation numbers!
> It's all about Harold--which is just the way Harold likes it! : )
> Hi, ringing_radience!
> Interesting that you bring up Doug Marman. True we have
> mentioned him from time to time, but ESA's focus is on Twitchell
> and Klemp--especially Klemp since he is the current leader (25
> years plus) of the scamming org. called eckankar. However, I
> have read some of his excerpts and also the dialogues that Doug
> Marman has presented on other websites. I do not care to
> read his stuff--I don't really see the point. I think he has stated
> that he is not an official spokesman for eckankar anyway. Besides,
> Doug himself has mentioned that "The Whole Truth" wasn't really
> the whole truth! : ) But it is interesting that you are wondering
> what his purpose is--maybe Doug is preparing for when Harold
> does step down, anticipating a splinter group that he might
> capture away from the original org? That's an interesting idea
> and maybe a possibility. Of course, we have discussed here that
> Harold has been trying to situate Joan in a more powerful
> position, such as co-L.E.M., in order for Harold to hold the
> power for a longer time. I suppose Harold's afraid of what will
> become of eckankar after he's gone--maybe a big ditching of
> all of his books, talks, writings, pics, etc. Sort of like what
> happened with Darwin, perhaps? Lots of speculations of course,
> but Harold's actions and words do make one wonder, doesn't
> (Top two reasons I've not read Marman's books: 1. I don't
> want to pay him for his books; 2. I don't want to expend the
> Right now, I'm waiting for Klemp to come out with his next
> exciting book--"Those Wonderful ECK Masters" was a jewel
> for sure!! It should be fun to read and review a next book by
> Harold. LOL! Have you read "Those Wonderful ECK Masters"--
> it's a fun read and sort of clever of Harold the way he plays
> with the concept of female eck masters just now coming out and
> how Joan is also written about in this book about eck masters. . . .
> Welcome to the site!
> --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ringing_radience"
> <ringing_radience@> wrote:
> > Thanks for your response prometheus_973.
> > To be clear though, my real purpose in posting this question here
> > was to find out if anyone here has actually read either of these 2
> > newer books by Doug. And if so, where exactly does it seem he is
> > trying to go with them? In other words, did he write these two books
> > to try and show the validity of the inner teachings of Eckankar, or
> > is he forming a breakaway group of his own that has very different
> > ideas about these teachings that are not in harmony with the current
> > Eckankar movement?
> > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
> > <prometheus_973@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > > Welcome to the site! Doug is an EK apologist who
> > > stated on Ford Johnson's (former) Truth-Seeker Site
> > > that EK Master Rebazar Tarzs is probably myth, and
> > > that the Jewish Holocaust, also, was probably myth!
> > >
> > > Check our LINKS page to read these DM comments
> > > for yourself!
> > >
> > > I'm sure that Klemp finds Doug an embarrassment,
> > > but Klemp knows better than to alienate him. Doug
> > > knows too many dirty little details and where the
> > > skeletons are hidden. This is why Klemp still befriends
> > > him, tolerates, and placates him by mentioning Rumi
> > > so often. Rumi is Doug's hero, although, Rumi was
> > > inspired by and worshipped a 4th Plane God (i.e. Kal/
> > > Satan). Refer to Klemp's "Autobiography of a Modern
> > > Prophet," pg.385, and look up "Satan" in the index of
> > > the Shariyat. However, this fact seems to elude ECKists,
> > > as well as, the fact that Klemp can't write poetry to even
> > > equal a 13th Century 2nd/4th Plane "follower" of ECK
> > > (Kal) and Rumi wasn't even an EK Master according to
> > > HK's Eckankar Lexicon!
> > >
> > > Yes, I've seen Doug's site! Doug is very hard-headed
> > > and evasive, but he does point out some of the distortions
> > > of Twitchell that have been carried over to form current
> > > dogma. Doug agrees that Twitchell didn't create/use
> > > or mention the 14th Initiation or the Mahanta title until
> > > January 1969.
> > >
> > > PT was supposedly initiated to the 12th by Rebazar
> > > in 1965 and should have "known" about and spoken
> > > of the "Mahanta" sooner. However, when one reads
> > > past issues of the monthly "The Wisdom Notes"
> > > from "Jan. 1968-Oct. 1971" one can see how PT
> > > was experimenting with various titles for himself
> > > and didn't mention the Mahanta until Jan. 1, 1969!
> > >
> > > Therefore, it seems that Doug is hanging onto Eckankar
> > > because he's a 7th with authority, power, respect (ego),
> > > has time and money and friendships invested, and because
> > > he has an EK following! This is how Ford Johnson should
> > > have handled things (and used the Internet) while creating
> > > a power base for himself within the EK org. and before
> > > breaking all ties with Klemp and Company!
> > >
> > > If you want to read current views held by Marman
> > > then just visit (GOOGLE) the A.R.E. site.
> > >
> > > Prometheus
> > >
> > > ringing_radience wrote:
> > > >
> > > Hello everyone,
> > > >
> > > This my first post.
> > > >
> > > Has anyone read either of these two newer books
> > > by Doug Marman? Does anyone know what Doug's
> > > current stance is on Eckankar, or how Harold
> > > and Eckankar view Doug Marman and these latest
> > > writings of his? I stumbled onto Doug's web site
> > > while doing some research.
> > > >
> > > If you are not familiar with these books, you can read
> > > about them here:
> > > >
> > > http://www.spiritualdialogues.com/index.html
> > > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > >
> > >
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>