3237Re: EK Outer Teachings Then & Now
- Mar 18, 2008Hi Etznab and All,
I'd like to respond to some of the points you have
made and make some other comments as well.
>ME: Actually, Darwin passed the Rod to Klemp in Oct. of 1981,
> "The thing about Darwin Gross is that he did name Harold
> Klemp as Living Eck Master in 1982 which, IMO, the same
> as handing over control of "Eckankar" to someone else. He
> talked with Harold about doing this even a year before."
and gave HK his 8th in mid-1980 and a 9th around mid-1981
just months before giving him the 12th LEM position. They both
worked out the transition plans in a Sound Proof Dark Room
at the ESC where Klemp worked. [Soul Travelers of the Far Country,
> "So, historically speaking, it looks like Darwin Gross wasME: Since there have only been three LEMs and one Mahanta
> the only LIVING Eck Master in our lifetimes to pass on the
> leadership of Eckankar to a successor."
(Twitchell) it's true that Darwin is the only one who has directly
passed the title and duties on.
> " I don't know how Darwin could have retained any positionME: Well, even Klemp will admit that DG was at least a 12th LEM
> higher than "spiritual leader" after he knowingly relinquished
> it. As for the position of President and/or any other position
> in the upper management subject to approval by a board or
> a majority vote, it would seem that the majority sided with
> the Living Eck Master. How could they - according to the
> teachings - do otherwise?"
and, therefore, a "God-Realized" ECK Master. Kata Daki was no
higher than a 12th or 13th. Check out the EK Lexicon for those
ECK Masters who were only LEMs and Not Mahantas. Besides,
Klemp has said that a 12th and 13th LEM is a Mahanta, but Not
a "Full" Mahanta.
> " I don't know what the corporate structure was at the time,ME: Unfortunately, the EK charter or structure that Gross used
> but it might be an interesting question whether or not there
> were definitions for the position of a Mahanta vs. Living Eck
> Master. I think that was the argument of some people. That
> although Harold became the L.E.M. that Darwin might have
> still been the Mahanta."
was the same one designed by Twitchell and his advisors when
Eckankar was first incorporated as a Non-Profit org. This was done
Before PT created the Mahanta title around Dec. 1968-Jan. 1969.
This is why the LEM was also the President and why No
consideration was given to the 14th Circle "Full" Mahanta position.
The highest initiate (the Mahanta) was the true spiritual leader
and Darwin was in that position when Klemp was still a 12th & 13th
during the schism. Klemp, later, corrected this flaw in the charter
in case he would ever have his authority challenged by someone
like himself. Therefore, now, every EK Board member sits at the
pleasure of the LEM/Mahanta for a (renewable) one year term.
This is the same for the Local (Regional) EK Boards, except, the
RESA choses these people.
> "Suppose Darwin did go by the title of Mahanta, the LivingME: Yes! This was Darwin's plan. He just needed to have mentioned
> Eck Master and he handed over the Living Eck Master part
> to someone else. Does he keep the Mahanta part?"
it to the membership in order to get it on record. If Gross had done
that Klemp and his gang would have been in a much more difficult
position to oust him and take over.
> "From the tape that I was familiar with, Harold was notME: Yes! HK was in training (under DG) to become a "Full"
> announced by the word Mahanta. That was apparently
> added some years later. Like, I think it was subsequent
> to Darwin's removal."
Mahanta just as he has said. Except, he can't be a "Full"
Mahanta, according to the Shariyat, because HK did Not have
a Virgin Birth! Therefore, Klemp can't be of the 14th Circle
as he has claimed! And, this also means he's either delusional
or a liar or both!
> "An interesting trivia question might be, Where did theME: According to Klemp Rebazar Tarzs filled-in from time-
> "Mahanta" part of the title go during the time between it
> leaving Darwin and finding a place with Harold?"
to-time. Why not use this fictional character like PT did?
> "On second thought, I don't think I want to "go there".ME: It could be that Darwin felt he needed a training or
> Or, do I :)"
> P.S. "With regard to Darwin's affiliation with the title of
> "Mahanta", I'm trying to recall what Doug Marman put
> in his books - about a use of the term from about 1973
> onward (in regard to Darwin)."
break-in period, as well, before bringing the "blue carnations"
on stage. It's expected by the EK membership and tends to
make the whole "spiritual" scam more believable.
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