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2950Re: Klemp Should Have Stepped Down Long Ago!

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  • prometheus_973
    Oct 15, 2007
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      Wll Don Ginn, or Joan be the new President of the Org?
      Will Peter Skelsky become the new LEM? Or, will Don be
      the new LEM? Can Joan, still, be moved in as the Co-LEM
      without problems? After 25 years it seems like Klemp still
      has a death-grip on the Rod of (EK) Power! Although, the
      ROD has "Burned" Klemp for a decade or more, and has
      affected his health, he has refused to let it go!

      Of course, in any scenario, Klemp won't give up the Top
      Dog spot as "FULL" Mahanta [Chief God over the copyrighted
      materials (words) and property of the Eckankar Corp. in the
      Lower Planes of KAL]!

      HK's Lust for Fame and Power has distorted his Soul on every
      level. The ROD has become Klemp's personal "precious"
      possession, and should have been LET GO of years ago!

      When will ECKists see the Truth... that only the weak, fearful,
      and inexperienced Souls need Masters and Religion, and
      that those EK initiations are just security blankets and
      carrots to feed the ego! Soul is its own Master and needs
      to be Free of Religious Dogma and Group Think!


      Prometheus wrote:
      I was thinking about what Klemp said about Gross
      holding onto the Rod of ECK Power beyond his time
      and was, therefore, "burned" by it.
      If this is true that Gross should have passed the Rod
      to Klemp in 1980 (or to someone else) can Eckists,
      then, really blame Gross (for his actions) anymore than
      they could blame Klemp for slowing their spiritual growth
      (initiations)? What is more important for ECKists? Fiscal
      Responsibility, Buildings, or Initiations? I was, mostly,
      focused on spiritual growth... Initiations!
      Actually, Klemp has more blame by hanging onto
      this Power way longer than any 20th Century LEM,
      and for delaying and limiting initiations. There should
      be at least 33 9ths, 333 8ths, and 3,333 7ths after
      25 years of "leadership." Sure, this would make the org
      very "top heavy" but so what! It should be! Aren't Eckists
      supposed to be the "cream of the crop?" Why then don't
      the initiations reflect this? See, this is just one of
      many reasons why the long-time Eckists want to see
      Klemp step down.
      HK restructured the org and moved the headquarters
      in order to have Total Control over the EK Board of
      Trustees. The RESA structure is the extended arm of
      this control.
      What were viewed as inappropiate actions by Gross
      were really just the "effects" of hanging onto the Rod
      beyond his time. DG's rationale and thinking was off
      balance and askewed. Consideration and understanding
      are still lacking for this phenomonia of holding onto
      the "Rod" beyond the time the LEM should. Klemp is
      still holding a grudge!
      Even today, the RESA police spy on Eckists with informers
      as they ferret out those who are Not supposed to even
      speak Darwin's name! And, let's face it, there will never
      be discussions of the "positive" elements concerning those
      10 lost years of EK History. This is extremely strange since
      most Higher Initiates (6-14) have most of their initiations
      from those 10 years under Gross!
      Klemp's chelas, from Oct. 22, 1981, are mostly 4ths and
      5ths! Let's face it, according to EK Dogma Chelas, H.I.s
      are Not Established on the SOUL PLANE "until" they have
      become 6ths!
      This 6th initiation is the "proof" that they have completed
      all of the trails and tests for the 5th initiation. I wonder
      if this was always the case? Or, did Klemp redefine this
      dogma (with these restrictions) "after" he slowed the
      initiations down?
      Therefore, Klemp might want to hold onto his MAHANTA
      position, until, he can get the majority of "his" Chelas to
      the 6th initiation. Maybe this is why he slowed initiations
      down in the first place? Maybe it was used as a ploy, along
      with building structures, to insure that he would need to
      be the LEM and/or Mahanta for 25-30 years or longer!
      Yes, Klemp is very selfish and has done ECK Chelas an
      even greater injustice than Gross ever did. Klemp's focus
      has been on the tangible instead of the intangible.
      > Prometheus
      > ***
      > Prometheus wrote:
      > >
      Hi Mish,
      I just read your post. Good one! Yes, it does seem
      like Klemp is taking an awfully long time to "train"
      a replacement. HK's "Wonderful" book has
      a 2005 copyright and he states it will take him
      "several" more years to train someone! A "few"
      means 3-4 right? Therefore, "several" would be
      4-5 or more right? Or, is Klemp incompetent at
      counting as well? If Klemp is being honest and
      is not trying to blind-side his chelas it would seem
      that his replacement won't be ready until, at least,
      Oct. 22, 2009. However, ECKists must always keep
      in mind the Catch-22 rule!
      > >
      However, has Klemp ever really been open, honest,
      or clear about anything? Hmmmmm. The closest
      he came to this was when he had to admit (because
      of it being Public Record) that he was locked-up in
      a mental institution. However, Klemp then put his
      Damage Control Spin on this incident (lemons into
      lemonade?) as he typically blamed or found fault with
      everyone at the mental health facility except himself.
      Re-read it for yourself and see! Klemp has never taken
      Responsibility for his harsh words, judgments, or negative
      actions and reactions toward others nor has he, ever,
      shown any Empathy, tolerance, or compassion. These
      are virtures and indicators of a higher Love.
      > >
      I challenge ECKists to point out where, in HK's vast
      writings, he has Ever Admitted to having made a Mistake,
      or of Showning Empathy toward others... especially
      to non-ECKists! One can rationalize that it is showing
      "tough love" when involving chelas, but how about
      with others? And No, it's Not Detachment either! It's
      the Catch-22 Mahanta Consciousness Ploy of Denial.
      ECKists are stupid and delusional and in denial to believe
      that everything they are told is true... except when they
      validate it via Imagination and with the use of a "charged
      word!" LOL! As Below So Above and Vice-Versa?!
      > >
      Yes, HK is always pointing the finger and blaming others.
      Klemp went to the 1971 ECK Worldwide instead of to his
      own father's funeral to be with his mother, brothers, and
      sister. Then, HK makes excuses for this insensitive and
      narcissistic behaviour by quoting Jesus, in his year 2000
      "Autobiography," while Talking About having Love for God.
      Then Klemp tells ECKists that they must have a "Loving Heart"
      and be an example for others. What a hypocrite!
      > >
      BTW- Here's what Klemp had to say on Eckankar.org about
      "when" Twitchell first met Rebazar.
      > >
      "Paul first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the foothills of the
      Himalayas near Darjeeling." [Hmmmm. This Darjee(ling) sounds
      like Darji]
      > >
      > >
      Therefore, if you believe this crap, Rebazar had from
      1951-1965 to "train" Twitchell for the LEM position.
      > >
      Rebazar, during a time when the World's Consciousness
      was lower, took 14 years to "train" Twitchell.
      > >
      Then, Twitchell had from 1965-1971 to "train" Gross. This
      is only 6 years. Maybe it took "less" time to train Darwin
      because the World's Consciousness, even due to wars, etc.,
      has expanded even more.
      > >
      Gross, then, took 10 years to "train" Klemp. Actually,
      Gross was going to hand the Rod to Klemp in 1980 after
      9 years, but took an extra year to finish Klemp's "training."
      > >
      Here's the score on passing the Rod:
      > >
      RT-PT=14 years
      PT-DG=6 years
      DG-HK=10 years
      HK-??=25 years
      > >
      Does it look like Klemp has, maybe, held onto his Power
      over these EK chelas Way Too Long?
      > >
      [BTW-HK's chelas are those First initiated After Oct. 22, 1981.]
      > >
      It looks like HK (the most advanced Mahanta ever, he claims)
      Should Not have taken more than 15 years to "train" someone,
      and that's giving him a lot of "wiggle" room.
      > >
      > > Prometheus

      mish wrote:
      > > >
      Hi, All!
      > > >
      What Prometheus wrote here reminded me of something
      Klemp wrote in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters." Prometheus
      > > >
      "Isn't it interesting that Klemp, at the 1983 H.I. Meeting,
      said that he would be the LEM/Mahanta for 10 to 20
      years in order to complete his mission. And, HK boasted
      that unlike Darwin he would Let Go of the Rod of ECK
      Power before it burned him and affected his health.
      > > >
      > > >
      Anyway, Klemp has held onto the Rod of ECK Power
      with a death grip, and has gone way beyond the 20
      years promised to complete his mission (of building
      > > >
      On pages 235-236, in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters,"
      Klemp answered in a chela's dream "the length of his
      service as the Living ECK Master. How long would he
      serve in that position? Were there others in training?"
      > > >
      Klemp wrote, "The Master assured her that a few
      initiates were indeed in training for leadership in ECK,
      but no one was ready yet to assume the responsibility.
      It might take several years or many more for the first
      one to complete all the tests. Accordingly, the Master
      would continue for another cycle as the Mahanta, the
      Living ECK Master. . . . "
      > > >
      Doesn't sound like Klemp is ready to step down yet,
      and that is why I believe after reading what Klemp wrote
      about Joan in his book, that he was setting the stage
      for her elevating to a position of great assistence to
      the godman! I would think that Don Ginn, Peter Skelsky,
      and the other hopeful "candidates" waiting in the wings
      for their chance to grasp the rod of eck power would
      be discouraged after reading Klemp's book. I agree
      that Klemp seems to have a death grip on his power--
      he just can't and won't let go of it! : )
      > > >
      > > >
      p.s. Remember that Don Ginn and Peter Skelsky were
      both on the Board of Trustees and helped Klemp to
      boot Darwin. These guys were at least 7th initiates
      25 years ago, so how embarrassing it must be to them that
      it is taking so long for the godman Klemp to train them!
      Either they are slow learners or Klemp is, as we know,
      incompetent and a fraud--Klemp has none of the powers he
      claims! Well, stupidity does abound in eckankar for sure!
      > > >
      > > > ################################
      > > >
      prometheus wrote:
      > > > >
      Hi Mish,
      Excellent post! On the other hand... the more I think
      about it... perhaps Don will take the place of Peter
      Skelsky and Peter will become the next LEM.
      > > > >
      Isn't it interesting that Klemp, at the 1983 H.I. Meeting,
      said that he would be the LEM/Mahanta for 10 to 20
      years in order to complete his mission. And, HK boasted
      that unlike Darwin he would Let Go of the Rod of ECK
      Power before it burned him and affected his health.
      > > > >
      Actually, I didn't see where the "Rod" had "burned" DG
      and, therefore, supposedly affected his health. HK and
      the Board of Trustees are the ones that burned DG!
      > > > >
      Anyway, Klemp has held onto the Rod of ECK Power
      with a death grip, and has gone way beyond the 20
      years promised to complete his mission (of building
      > > > >
      What should have been Klemp's mission? Isn't the real
      mission of a Mahanta: To take MORE Souls into the HIGHEST
      Planes of the Sugmad; To do this more directly or FASTER
      than any other religion or spiritual path could; To set
      Souls FREE, thus, they too become MASTERS?!
      > > > >
      Instead, Klemp slowed Initiations down, and told ECKists
      that he would! Why did he Not Speed these up at some
      point? Look at the long-time 7th initiates that have been
      7ths... for 20 plus years! What's with that? Why aren't
      there more 8ths? I know that there are 9ths... including
      Joan! Why the Glass Ceiling for long-time 7ths and former
      RESAs? What does Klemp fear, or is this another effect
      from Not having Let Go (of the Rod) when he should have?!
      > > > >
      Yes, Klemp was burned a long time ago when one looks
      at his EMR problems beginning around 1990. Look at
      his health problems of the last few years! So, I guess
      his reasoning is, still, that his replacement wasn't ready.
      Is that the way things are supposed to work in Eckankar?
      > > > >
      A replacement is ready when the need arises just like
      when the chela is ready the Master will appear. Klemp
      can tell chelas anything at anytime and chelas will accept
      it because if they can't then something must be wrong
      with them. The possibility can never exist that something
      is wrong with Klemp or that he is lying. Yet, didn't HK
      say that Twitchell 'twisted facts?' And, Marman said that
      Twitchell used half-truths while Rich (another ECKist)
      claims that PT plagarized 7% of his works! Didn't DG
      "fall" from Grace? It's obvious that Klemp had fallen long
      ago... circa 1990 perhaps?! The truth does have a bite
      to it at times and this is why people will deny it for as
      long as they can. This is why HK wants ECKists to "imagine"
      that everything is fine with his leadership. The mind is
      very powerful... just look at what it can do when under
      a concentrated focus... like with hypnosis.
      > > > >
      So why do ECKists believe Klemp's version of truth? it's
      because they fear the real truth that he's a fraud. What
      else do they have to believe in? Eckankar is their life...
      their crutch... they think. But there is much more! And
      one can only discover this when they have Let Go...
      Break the Chains and stand in a clear new light as a free
      > > > >
      However, and on the other hand, after the fiasco with
      Darwin one would think that ECKists could handle the
      truth. And, wouldn't Klemp want to show the finances
      to the General Membership in an Annual Report. That
      doesn't happen though does it! Instead, Klemp puts the
      fear of asking questions into chelas because questioning
      his authority on anything will cause a chela to be held back
      on Initiations. Never complain in your IRO or HIRO because
      it will be put into your file at the ESC. "Good" ECKists must
      always practice the "Law of Silence" and "Surrender" their
      ability to think.
      > > > >
      So what's all this mean? It means that most ECKists
      really want to see a change in leadership, but can't say
      so. Klemp hasn't done anything except to create more
      structures and write a ton of worthless books. Why are
      these books worthless? Because the "spiritual" message
      is way too simple, of lower consciousness, and is redundant
      because one can find similar books everywhere and by
      other secular or religious writers. Besides, these books
      of Klemp's are only directed to the uninitiated public or
      to the vast number of simple-minded chelas that don't
      "Get It." These are Klemp's other Money Makers because
      he gets 50% of the royalities!
      > > > >
      ECKists have been duped for a long time and for 25
      years by Klemp! Even this narcissist knows that it has
      to end soon. But why travel to Minneapolis to see the
      new LEM when you've seen them before and will see and
      hear from them more in the future? And, if you're a
      True Blue ECKist, of higher consciousness, you should be
      able to project yourself there, or see it on the Inner. Right!
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      Mish wrote:
      > > > > >
      Hi, Everyone!
      > > > > >
      When I read Klemp's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," I
      saw this book as a tool Klemp had created to elevate Joan
      to an eck master, and I still believe that was one of the basic
      purposes of the book. Klemp thinks he can cleverly insert subtle
      ideas that when the reader goes back later, can say, oh, yes,
      it's in there--how could one miss it! LOL! So, it is in "Those
      Wonderful ECK Masters" that Joan appears in some chelas
      dreams doing what eck masters are supposed to do, helping
      chelas to find the mahanta! Also, in the chapter on Kata Daki,
      Klemp explains how more female eck masters are coming out
      to be known--he states it is now time! Again, it is time for
      Joan to be an eck master. . . . Anyway, this is what I saw in
      the book and I still believe that was Klemp's primary motivation
      to write the book when he did. I also believe that Klemp was
      planning to announce some changes in the leadership of
      eckankar, positioning Joan in a bigger role of power so that
      she could "officially" assist him in his declining years as
      master of the universe. Now, I don't have those feelings of
      a big announcement in that regard coming out publicly to
      the chelas soon, if ever! I guess the chelas will have to get it
      on the inner! LOL!
      > > > > >
      Seriously, though, positioning Joan in such a way before the
      chelas would at the very least give her some clout if Klemp
      became disabled or dead. I'm sure Klemp is recalling
      what happened when PT suddenly died and how Gail then
      selected the next L.E.M. mahanta in a dream and then later
      married him! Hey, is Don Ginn married??? : )
      > > > > >
      There are big changes coming in the hierarchial structure
      of the eckankar org--but not sure when it will be announced.
      Maybe Klemp has decided not to appear so frail for the time
      being as he continues his scheming to remain where he is
      in the seat of eck power as long as he can! He's changed his
      course a little bit for now, so I foresee a very boring up-coming
      EWWS! It will be pretty much the same old eckancrap!
      > > > > >
      Chelas, I advise that you save your time and money by staying
      home . . . or if you're truly in the mood to travel, go some
      place fun and warm for a change! : )
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      Hi All,
      Yes, it seems that Don might be the next LEM while
      Klemp remains the "full" Mahanta. Of course there is,
      still, the possibility that Joan is made the Co-LEM
      (since a female could only share this position, due to
      "their" negative atoms).
      > > > > > >
      As a "junior" and/or Co-LEM (under the guidance &
      supervision of the "full" LEM/Mahanta) Joan could take
      > > > > > > over, even more, duties for her husband at the ESC.
      > > > > > >
      Or, Don can be given these duties as a "junior" LEM while
      Joan continues her role at the ESC while spying on Don for HK!
      > > > > > >
      Anyway, it's a win/win for them right!
      > > > > > >
      I wonder... Would Joan be able to take orders from Don,
      or will she, only, be obeying the Living ECK... Mahanta
      like Marge?

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