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2915Re: Don Ginn - The Next LEM or President of the Org?

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  • prometheus_973
    Oct 5, 2007
      Hi Mish,
      I just read your post. Good one! Yes, it does seem
      like Klemp is taking an awfully long time to "train"
      a replacement. HK's "Wonderful" book has
      a 2005 copyright and he states it will take him
      "several" more years to train someone! A "few"
      means 3-4 right? Therefore, "several" would be
      4-5 or more right? Or, is Klemp incompetent at
      counting as well? If Klemp is being honest and
      is not trying to blind-side his chelas it would seem
      that his replacement won't be ready until, at least,
      Oct. 22, 2009. However, ECKists must always keep
      in mind the Catch-22 rule!

      However, has Klemp ever really been open, honest,
      or clear about anything? Hmmmmm. The closest
      he came to this was when he had to admit (because
      of it being Public Record) that he was locked-up in
      a mental institution. However, Klemp then put his
      Damage Control Spin on this incident (lemons into
      lemonade?) as he typically blamed or found fault with
      everyone at the mental health facility except himself.
      Re-read it for yourself and see! Klemp has never taken
      Responsibility for his harsh words, judgments, or negative
      actions and reactions toward others nor has he, ever,
      shown any Empathy, tolerance, or compassion. These
      are virtures and indicators of a higher Love.

      I challenge ECKists to point out where, in HK's vast
      writings, he has Ever Admitted to having made a Mistake,
      or of Showning Empathy toward others... especially
      to non-ECKists! One can rationalize that it is showing
      "tough love" when involving chelas, but how about
      with others? And No, it's Not Detachment either! It's
      the Catch-22 Mahanta Consciousness Ploy of Denial.
      ECKists are stupid and delusional to believe that everything
      they are told is true... except when they validate it via
      Imagination and with the use of a "charged word!" LOL!
      As Below So Above and Vice-Versa?!

      Yes, HK is always pointing the finger and blaming others.
      Klemp went to the 1971 ECK Worldwide instead of to his
      own father's funeral to be with his mother, brothers, and
      sister. Then, HK makes excuses for this insensitive and
      narcissistic behaviour by quoting Jesus, in his year 2000
      "Autobiography," while Talking About having Love for God.
      Then Klemp tells ECKists that they must have a "Loving Heart"
      and be an example for others. What a hypocrite!

      BTW- Here's what Klemp had to say on Eckankar.org about
      "when" Twitchell first met Rebazar.

      "Paul first met Rebazar Tarzs in 1951 in the foothills of the
      Himalayas near Darjeeling." [Hmmmm. This Darjee(ling) sounds
      like Darji]

      http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man.html

      Therefore, if you believe this crap, Rebazar had from
      1951-1965 to "train" Twitchell for the LEM position.

      Rebazar, during a time when the World's Consciousness
      was lower, took 14 years to "train" Twitchell.

      Then, Twitchell had from 1965-1971 to "train" Gross. This
      is only 6 years. Maybe it took "less" time to train Darwin
      because the World's Consciousness, even due to wars, etc.,
      has expanded even more.

      Gross, then, took 10 years to "train" Klemp. Actually,
      Gross was going to hand the Rod to Klemp in 1980 after
      9 years, but took an extra year to finish Klemp's "training."

      Here's the score on passing the Rod:

      RT-PT=14 years
      PT-DG=6 years
      DG-HK=10 years
      HK-??=25 years

      Does it look like Klemp has, maybe, held onto his Power
      over these EK chelas Way Too Long?

      [BTW-HK's chelas are those First initiated After Oct. 22, 1981.]

      It looks like HK (the most advanced Mahanta ever, he claims)
      Should Not have taken more than 15 years to "train" someone,
      and that's giving him a lot of "wiggle" room.

      Prometheus




      mish wrote:
      >
      > Hi, All!
      >
      > What Prometheus wrote here reminded me of something
      > Klemp wrote in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters." Prometheus
      > wrote:
      >
      > "Isn't it interesting that Klemp, at the 1983 H.I. Meeting,
      > said that he would be the LEM/Mahanta for 10 to 20
      > years in order to complete his mission. And, HK boasted
      > that unlike Darwin he would Let Go of the Rod of ECK
      > Power before it burned him and affected his health.
      >
      > <snipped>
      >
      > Anyway, Klemp has held onto the Rod of ECK Power
      > with a death grip, and has gone way beyond the 20
      > years promised to complete his mission (of building
      > structures)."
      >
      > On pages 235-236, in "Those Wonderful ECK Masters,"
      > Klemp answered in a chela's dream "the length of his
      > service as the Living ECK Master. How long would he
      > serve in that position? Were there others in training?"
      >
      > Klemp wrote, "The Master assured her that a few
      > initiates were indeed in training for leadership in ECK,
      > but no one was ready yet to assume the responsibility.
      > It might take several years or many more for the first
      > one to complete all the tests. Accordingly, the Master
      > would continue for another cycle as the Mahanta, the
      > Living ECK Master. . . . "
      >
      > Doesn't sound like Klemp is ready to step down yet,
      > and that is why I believe after reading what Klemp wrote
      > about Joan in his book, that he was setting the stage
      > for her elevating to a position of great assistence to
      > the godman! I would think that Don Ginn, Peter Skelsky,
      > and the other hopeful "candidates" waiting in the wings
      > for their chance to grasp the rod of eck power would
      > be discouraged after reading Klemp's book. I agree
      > that Klemp seems to have a death grip on his power--
      > he just can't and won't let go of it! : )
      >
      > Mish
      >
      > p.s. Remember that Don Ginn and Peter Skelsky were
      > both on the Board of Trustees and helped Klemp to
      > boot Darwin. These guys were at least 7th initiates
      > 25 years ago, so how embarrassing it must be to them that
      > it is taking so long for the godman Klemp to train them!
      > Either they are slow learners or Klemp is, as we know,
      > incompetent and a fraud--Klemp has none of the powers he
      > claims! Well, stupidity does abound in eckankar for sure!
      >
      > ################################
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi Mish,
      > > Excellent post! On the other hand... the more I think
      > > about it... perhaps Don will take the place of Peter
      > > Skelsky and Peter will become the next LEM.
      > >
      > > Isn't it interesting that Klemp, at the 1983 H.I. Meeting,
      > > said that he would be the LEM/Mahanta for 10 to 20
      > > years in order to complete his mission. And, HK boasted
      > > that unlike Darwin he would Let Go of the Rod of ECK
      > > Power before it burned him and affected his health.
      > >
      > > Actually, I didn't see where the "Rod" had "burned" DG
      > > and, therefore, supposedly affected his health. HK and
      > > the Board of Trustees are the ones that burned DG!
      > >
      > > Anyway, Klemp has held onto the Rod of ECK Power
      > > with a death grip, and has gone way beyond the 20
      > > years promised to complete his mission (of building
      > > structures).
      > >
      > > What should have been Klemp's mission? Isn't the real
      > > mission of a Mahanta: To take MORE Souls into the HIGHEST
      > > Planes of the Sugmad; To do this more directly or FASTER
      > > than any other religion or spiritual path could; To set
      > > Souls FREE, thus, they too become MASTERS?!
      > >
      > > Instead, Klemp slowed Initiations down, and told ECKists
      > > that he would! Why did he Not Speed these up at some
      > > point? Look at the long-time 7th initiates that have been
      > > 7ths... for 20 plus years! What's with that? Why aren't
      > > there more 8ths? I know that there are 9ths... including
      > > Joan! Why the Glass Ceiling for long-time 7ths and former
      > > RESAs? What does Klemp fear, or is this another effect
      > > from Not having Let Go (of the Rod) when he should have?!
      > >
      > > Yes, Klemp was burned a long time ago when one looks
      > > at his EMR problems beginning around 1990. Look at
      > > his health problems of the last few years! So, I guess
      > > his reasoning is, still, that his replacement wasn't ready.
      > > Is that the way things are supposed to work in Eckankar?
      > >
      > > A replacement is ready when the need arises just like
      > > when the chela is ready the Master will appear. Klemp
      > > can tell chelas anything at anytime and chelas will accept
      > > it because if they can't then something must be wrong
      > > with them. The possibility can never exist that something
      > > is wrong with Klemp or that he is lying. Yet, didn't HK
      > > say that Twitchell 'twisted facts?' And, Marman said that
      > > Twitchell used half-truths while Rich (another ECKist)
      > > claims that PT plagarized 7% of his works! Didn't DG
      > > "fall" from Grace? It's obvious that Klemp had fallen long
      > > ago... circa 1990 perhaps?! The truth does have a bite
      > > to it at times and this is why people will deny it for as
      > > long as they can. This is why HK wants ECKists to "imagine"
      > > that everything is fine with his leadership. The mind is
      > > very powerful... just look at what it can do when under
      > > a concentrated focus... like with hypnosis.
      > >
      > > So why do ECKists believe Klemp's version of truth? it's
      > > because they fear the real truth that he's a fraud. What
      > > else do they have to believe in? Eckankar is their life...
      > > their crutch... they think. But there is much more! And
      > > one can only discover this when they have Let Go...
      > > Break the Chains and stand in a clear new light as a free
      > > Soul.
      > >
      > > However, and on the other hand, after the fiasco with
      > > Darwin one would think that ECKists could handle the
      > > truth. And, wouldn't Klemp want to show the finances
      > > to the General Membership in an Annual Report. That
      > > doesn't happen though does it! Instead, Klemp puts the
      > > fear of asking questions into chelas because questioning
      > > his authority on anything will cause a chela to be held back
      > > on Initiations. Never complain in your IRO or HIRO because
      > > it will be put into your file at the ESC. "Good" ECKists must
      > > always practice the "Law of Silence" and "Surrender" their
      > > ability to think.
      > >
      > > So what's all this mean? It means that most ECKists
      > > really want to see a change in leadership, but can't say
      > > so. Klemp hasn't done anything except to create more
      > > structures and write a ton of worthless books. Why are
      > > these books worthless? Because the "spiritual" message
      > > is way too simple, of lower consciousness, and is redundant
      > > because one can find similar books everywhere and by
      > > other secular or religious writers. Besides, these books
      > > of Klemp's are only directed to the uninitiated public or
      > > to the vast number of simple-minded chelas that don't
      > > "Get It." These are Klemp's other Money Makers because
      > > he gets 50% of the royalities!
      > >
      > > ECKists have been duped for a long time and for 25
      > > years by Klemp! Even this narcissist knows that it has
      > > to end soon. But why travel to Minneapolis to see the
      > > new LEM when you've seen them before and will see and
      > > hear from them more in the future? And, if you're a
      > > True Blue ECKist, of higher consciousness, you should be
      > > able to project yourself there, or see it on the Inner. Right!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > >
      > >
      > > Mish wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi, Everyone!
      > > >
      > > > When I read Klemp's book "Those Wonderful ECK Masters," I
      > > > saw this book as a tool Klemp had created to elevate Joan
      > > > to an eck master, and I still believe that was one of the basic
      > > > purposes of the book. Klemp thinks he can cleverly insert subtle
      > > > ideas that when the reader goes back later, can say, oh, yes,
      > > > it's in there--how could one miss it! LOL! So, it is in "Those
      > > > Wonderful ECK Masters" that Joan appears in some chelas
      > > > dreams doing what eck masters are supposed to do, helping
      > > > chelas to find the mahanta! Also, in the chapter on Kata Daki,
      > > > Klemp explains how more female eck masters are coming out
      > > > to be known--he states it is now time! Again, it is time for
      > > > Joan to be an eck master. . . . Anyway, this is what I saw in
      > > > the book and I still believe that was Klemp's primary motivation
      > > > to write the book when he did. I also believe that Klemp was
      > > > planning to announce some changes in the leadership of
      > > > eckankar, positioning Joan in a bigger role of power so that
      > > > she could "officially" assist him in his declining years as
      > > > master of the universe. Now, I don't have those feelings of
      > > > a big announcement in that regard coming out publicly to
      > > > the chelas soon, if ever! I guess the chelas will have to get it
      > > > on the inner! LOL!
      > > >
      > > > Seriously, though, positioning Joan in such a way before the
      > > > chelas would at the very least give her some clout if Klemp
      > > > became disabled or dead. I'm sure Klemp is recalling
      > > > what happened when PT suddenly died and how Gail then
      > > > selected the next L.E.M. mahanta in a dream and then later
      > > > married him! Hey, is Don Ginn married??? : )
      > > >
      > > > There are big changes coming in the hierarchial structure
      > > > of the eckankar org--but not sure when it will be announced.
      > > > Maybe Klemp has decided not to appear so frail for the time
      > > > being as he continues his scheming to remain where he is
      > > > in the seat of eck power as long as he can! He's changed his
      > > > course a little bit for now, so I foresee a very boring up-coming
      > > > EWWS! It will be pretty much the same old eckancrap!
      > > >
      > > > Chelas, I advise that you save your time and money by staying
      > > > home . . . or if you're truly in the mood to travel, go some
      > > > place fun and warm for a change! : )
      > > >
      > > > Mish
      > > >
      > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      > > > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi All,
      > > > > Yes, it seems that Don might be the next LEM while
      > > > > Klemp remains the "full" Mahanta. Of course there is,
      > > > > still, the possibility that Joan is made the Co-LEM
      > > > > (since a female could only share this position, due to
      > > > > "their" negative atoms).
      > > > >
      > > > > As a "junior" and/or Co-LEM (under the guidance &
      > > > > supervision of the "full" LEM/Mahanta) Joan could take
      > > > > over, even more, duties for her husband at the ESC.
      > > > >
      > > > > Or, Don can be given these duties as a "junior" LEM while
      > > > > Joan continues her role at the ESC while spying on Don
      > > > > for HK!
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, it's a win/win for them right!
      > > > >
      > > > > I wonder... Would Joan be able to take orders from Don,
      > > > > or will she, only, be obeying the Living ECK... Mahanta
      > > > > like Marge?
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > > mish wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi, Liz!
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > It seems this attorney was thinking outside of the box! : ) When we
      > > > > > close ourselves off from the outside world by joining a cult like
      > > > > > eckankar, we box ourselves into a small isolated tunnel like place and
      > > > > > can forget the basic things in life like "your family comes first."
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > Mish
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > Liz wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi Mish and all,
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > I am surprised too that eckankar doesn't go into further detail, explaining
      > > > > > how a will should be written so family members can not contest such a
      > > > > > donation. (or do they?)
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > When I was still a member, my DH and I had wills drawn up through an
      > > > > > attorney I use for family issues. I questioned how a portion could be left
      > > > > > to my church. My attorney gave me a funny look and said "your family should
      > > > > > always come first"! We had an interesting conversation, and in the end I
      > > > > > didn't leave anything to eckankar. ;-) All it takes is discussing
      > > > > > something of this nature with an outsider, and they tend to have a much
      > > > > > better way of putting the important things into perspective.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Liz
      > > > > >
      > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Mish wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > Here's the exact statement posted by Bob Hepple on the
      > > > > > California Satsang Society Chela News & Events publication
      > > > > > regarding raising money for their building fund:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > "How can I donate? There are many ways that you can donate.
      > > > > > Enclosed is an envelope and donation form that will allow
      > > > > > you to receive a tax receipt for your check or credit card
      > > > > > donation. Also enclosed are two brochures, published by
      > > > > > ECKANKAR Spiritual Center, that explain how to bequeath
      > > > > > the California Satsang Society in your will or living trust,
      > > > > > or make the Society a beneficiary of your retirement,
      > > > > > pension plan, or life insurance policy."
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > This very plainly states how such cult groups like eckankar go
      > > > > > after members' money.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > <snip>
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Another disturbing thing is how blatantly eckankar goes after
      > > > > > members money including pensions, life insurance and other
      > > > > > money that most people bequeath to surviving family members.
      > > > > > This shows how callous eckankar is regarding family structure
      > > > > > and well-being. Eckankar breaks down family ties in order to
      > > > > > get the family money! But of course that is what all cults are
      > > > > > after--bleeding chelas dry but making them imagine they are
      > > > > > getting something in the bargain, a stairway to heaven, perhaps!
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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