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2672Re: ECKANKAR: The Wisdom Notes, June 2007

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  • zoey_true
    Jun 26, 2007
      i couldn't agree more, mish. i've sent posts before discussing the
      differences in twitchell's early eckankar, and harold's current
      eckankar. these were just my observations, of course, but i do
      believe that today's eckankar has involved into quite a different
      beast.

      i keep somewhat abreast through eck friends. otherwise, i come to
      the internet to find out what is up.

      zoey...


      ---
      In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, Zoey!
      >
      > Thanks for the response! I just think that the current happenings
      > in eckankar are highly important and interesting, and in some
      > instances much more important than the past history.
      >
      > Harold Klemp willingly and knowingly took on the leadership of
      > eckankar. He was "immersed" probably as much as anyone back then,
      > and maybe even more. He has maintained and also changed eckankar
      > to what it is today. So it is very important to look at and think
      about
      > what he is saying and doing today! What is Klemp's game plan for
      > keeping his seat of power in eckankar? Obviously, the Internet is
      > concerning him, so one has to consider why it is bothering him now?
      > Initially, he got chelas attention about becoming diseased from
      EMR.
      > I know some chelas who minicked this condition, because they were
      > becoming so "spiritually" sensitive like their mahanta. I think at
      the
      > time it helped chelas to stay away from David Lane's information
      > about eckankar. But that only stopped a few chelas. More
      importantly,
      > with all this debate and information about eckankar's secret
      teachings,
      > outsiders are looking at it . . . and I'm sure many are shaking
      their
      > heads in wonderment at how people can be so easily duped.
      >
      > Perhaps, Klemp thinks getting/keeping his lower initiates off the
      > Internet will keep them more focused on the cult's brainwashing
      > which will keep them suckered in until they reach the point of
      > no return (high initiation level where by then so much time and
      money
      > has been invested, it is difficult for the arrogant highly evolved
      souls
      > to let go--or maybe they are too embarrassed by then to let go???
      > It's difficult to own up to mistakes, especially, stupid mistakes!
      LOL!)
      >
      > I wasn't in eckankar a long time either, but I had my eck
      experiences
      > too. We all have our insights from our experiences, but I think the
      > members here like Prometheus and Liz who were in it for the long
      > haul and recently left the teachings know a lot more about the
      inner
      > workings of eckankar than the rest of us--since they are more
      current.
      >
      > The information they put out there for us really catches my
      attention,
      > and that is why I'd like to see the discussion on the June 2007
      Wisdom
      > Notes be expanded here. There's a lot to consider about what Klemp
      > wrote there.
      >
      > Mish
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "zoey_true"
      > <zoey_true@> wrote:
      > >
      > > hey, mish. i'm fairly interested in eck events from the past,
      and in
      > > the present. i think it would be quite interesting to know
      harold's
      > > family dynamics.
      > >
      > > i didn't comment on the wisdom notes because i don't really have
      a
      > > comment. i'm not sure what underlying message hk is trying to
      convey
      > > with that computer stuff. he could be hoping that eckists will
      > > remain in the dark if they keep away from the internet. or he
      could
      > > be saying that he understands things on a level the rest of us
      > > don't. like, he knows about harmful beams, and the rest of us
      are
      > > clueless.
      > >
      > > i was only in eckankar 5 years, mish. i was never a higher
      > > initiate. but i was as insider as one can be, i suppose, without
      > > being a higher initiate. one of my best friends was the RESA,
      and i
      > > dated two hi's. i was one of the club. - i only relate these
      > > things to say that i was quite immersed in the whole thing.
      > >
      > > later, zoey...
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      > > <mishmisha9@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Hi, All!
      > > >
      > > > Since Prometheus' post on The Wisdom Notes June 2007
      > > > got side-tracked with the other discussion that Zoey
      > > > brought to the forefront regarding Klemp's poor
      > > > family relationships and his hiding his past, I thought
      > > > I'd bring this more current topic back to the front page
      > > > for more discussion. It seems to me that what Klemp is saying
      > > > and writing now is of the upmost importance. I also find
      > > > it really interesting how Klemp wants to stop chelas,
      > > > especially the lower initiates from spending what he
      > > > considers too much time exploring the Internet! I have to
      > > > ask why he is bothered by this now??? What is going on
      > > > in his world, that of eckankar, that he is compelled to
      > > > put these alarms and concerns out there? Of course,
      > > > from my perspective, it would seem that sites like
      > > > ESA and other anti-eck groups might be bothering him???
      > > > Are the anti-eckankar discussions having an impact on the
      > > > growth of eckankar?? I can only hope so! : )
      > > >
      > > > BTW, Zoey, since you are so interested in the past
      > > > events in eckankar, I was wondering if what is currently
      > > > taking place concerns/interests you. For instance, what
      > > > do you think about the Wisdom Notes topic? Also, I really
      > > > would like to know more about your eck experience when
      > > > you have the chance. I had asked you in my previous post:
      > > >
      > > > "you might have already posted about your eck experience on here
      > > > or another site, but would you mind refreshing us? How many
      years
      > > > you were a member and your level of participation? How long you
      > > > have been out and why you dropped out? Just curious. Thanks!"
      > > >
      > > > Anyway, I hope we can start some good discussions about the
      > > > impact that the Internet is having on eckankar and its
      > > > leadership, namely, Klemp as he continues to hold on to the
      power!
      > > > LOL!
      > > >
      > > > Mish
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      > > > "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus posted:
      > > > > Klemp Tries to Keep ECKists Off the Internet
      > > > > by Using Fear Tactics of Harmful "BEAMS."
      > > > >
      > > > > The Wisdom Notes- June 2007:
      > > > > Klemp wrote:
      > > > > "… the Internet, with its e-mail,
      > > > > instant messaging, games, RESEARCH
      > > > > GOLD MINES, study courses, and so
      > > > > much more.
      > > > >
      > > > > Many get lost and then swallowed up
      > > > > in this virtual universe. In doing so,
      > > > > they lose sight of the ECK.
      > > > >
      > > > > The Internet, therefore, can be a golden
      > > > > window that opens one to unlimited possibilities
      > > > > of information and entertainment.
      > > > >
      > > > > Yet it can reveal a dark side too.
      > > > >
      > > > > Once cautions were aired about radio, comic
      > > > > books, and TV." . . .
      > > > >
      > > > > ##Prometheus, thanks for sharing Klemp's latest
      > > > > Wisdom Notes! I have to say that this ranks up
      > > > > there with Klemp's book "Those Wonderful ECK
      > > > > Masters" in his attempt to suppress truth and
      > > > > manipulate his chelas. Rather disgusting while
      > > > > so laughable how Klemp tries to maintain control
      > > > > of his power seat. For him and eckankar, the Internet
      > > > > is a definite threat as more and more chelas search
      > > > > for the truth, and find it on various discussion sites
      > > > > that eckankar is based on lies and deceptions, and
      > > > > Klemp is nothing but a fake master who feasts off
      > > > > the gullible.
      > > > >
      > > > > Logically, when Klemp mentions in his Wisdom Notes
      > > > > how once society cautioned about radio, comic books
      > > > > and TV it would seem his cautions about the Internet
      > > > > should fall on deaf ears. After all, we still listen to the
      > > > > radio, read comic books and watch TV. Those things were
      > > > > not passing fancies, and so too, the Internet is here to stay.
      > > > > I don't think civilization has sunk into a dark abyss because
      > > > > of these modern electronics. On the contrary, it seems
      > > > > life has been enhanced and improved for the most part.
      > > > > Now we can have an abundance of friends from all over the
      > > > > world that we can easily communicate with on a regular
      > > > > basis. We can learn lots of information about various
      > > > > subjects of interest and concern. We can stay current with
      > > > > the news, etc.
      > > > >
      > > > > So, really, what is Klemp's beef about the Internet? I
      > > > > imagine that he is losing more membership in his org and
      > > > > that he feels challenged on a daily basis to keep his
      > > > > lies and deceptions afloat. Yes, eckankar is one of those
      > > > > orgs that is nothing more than a sinking ship. Klemp as
      captain
      > > > > is not ready to go down, so he is constantly attempting
      > > > > to plug up the leaks on his ill fated ship. Funny to watch!
      > > > >
      > > > > Seems that the Internet and all those foxes guarding the eck
      > > > > hen house are big problems for Klemp! They go hand in hand,
      > > > > don't they! : )
      > > > >
      > > > > Mish
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      ***************************************************************
      > > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      > > > > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Klemp Tries to Keep ECKists Off the Internet
      > > > > by Using Fear Tactics of Harmful "BEAMS."
      > > > >
      > > > > The Wisdom Notes- June 2007:
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "… the Internet, with its e-mail,
      > > > > instant messaging, games, RESEARCH
      > > > > GOLD MINES, study courses, and so
      > > > > much more.
      > > > >
      > > > > Many get lost and then swallowed up
      > > > > in this virtual universe. In doing so,
      > > > > they lose sight of the ECK."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] But don't Eckists have their Inner
      > > > > Mahanta to Guide them and Protect them,
      > > > > or is this just more of HK's lip service?
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "The Internet, therefore, can be a golden
      > > > > window that opens one to unlimited possibilities
      > > > > of information and entertainment.
      > > > >
      > > > > Yet it can reveal a dark side too."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Yes, the dark side of anything can show
      > > > > itself and be a negative factor, especially, for
      > > > > unsupervised children. However, adults are more
      > > > > mature and have freedom of choice. Besides, isn't
      > > > > this a KAL controlled world of tests and challenges
      > > > > and why Soul is here for spiritual growth?
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "Once cautions were aired about radio, comic
      > > > > books, and TV."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Exactly, so what's your point Mr. Klemp?
      > > > > Klemp seems to be talking out of both sides of his
      > > > > mouth on this issue and wants it both ways.
      > > > > However, this is more of a ploy to confuse Eckists
      > > > > while creating more fears like with the EMR fear
      > > > > that he has already established. One has to wonder
      > > > > what good is the Mahanta if he can't protect Eckists
      > > > > from the KAL who only "rules" the Lower Worlds.
      > > > > What happened to the Higher Consciousness of the
      > > > > Higher Initiations? Klemp repeats this message
      > > > > of fear in the H.I. Letter!
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "And still our world spins lazily on.
      > > > > Unfortunately, some people rely on electronic
      > > > > toys to get themselves booted up. They're
      > > > > addicts, though, they refuse to face reality.
      > > > > Glued to their chairs, they sit and eat, growing
      > > > > Obese."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] It seems Klemp is definitely talking about
      > > > > Cheryl Grumpyman! Maybe he's including his ex-wife,
      > > > > some ESC staffers and a few RESAs (among others)
      > > > > too!
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "This is a worst-case scenario that appears
      > > > > all too often. They prefer to communicate with
      > > > > others online instead of face-to-face."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Now that's a really stupid and narrow-minded
      > > > > statement! Klemp is an Idiot! People can't travel those
      > > > > distances in the physical world of limitation of time
      > > > > and space. And it's more convenient, cheaper, and
      > > > > "Green" to communicate via computer. I guess that if
      > > > > one follows Klemp's distorted logic we shouldn't use
      > > > > the telephone either! After all, using the phone is not
      > > > > "face-to-face" and it is an electronic device that is held
      > > > > very close to the brain and emits EMR! Be afraid… very
      > > > > afraid!
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "A danger inherent in any outside attraction is
      > > > > that a chela finds little time for the Spiritual Exercises
      > > > > of ECK. So what is missing? Quietude."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] So, if this is a problem or a negative with
      > > > > "ANY outside attraction" why pick on just the "Internet"
      > > > > with all of the positive benefits it has?! Besides, this
      > > > > technology is, also, a means of uniting more people
      > > > > than the Mahanta will ever be able to do! Why are there
      > > > > people at the ESC (and locally) assigned to Internet
      > > > > media? See, it's to scare the gullible and fearful from
      > > > > discovering sites like this.
      > > > >
      > > > > HK seems to be inept as an all powerful Mahanta
      > > > > to influence and control chelas on the Inner Planes
      > > > > let alone on the outer. Therefore, he resorts to KAListic
      > > > > methods by using the written word (print media,
      > > > > Internet), art work, tapes, CD's, DVD's, and the
      > > > > telephone/fax to get his outer (Lower Plane) message
      > > > > out. Like other religious fundamentalist leaders Klemp
      > > > > would love to have civil laws and government control
      > > > > implemented to control his flock of hens (roosters too)
      > > > > in that Eck Henhouse.
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "There must be an oasis of tranquility, of peace
      > > > > and quiet, for there to be time for spiritual exercises,
      > > > > just plain reading, or even daydreaming. Reading, for
      > > > > example, has the power to open children, youth, and
      > > > > adults new horizons, without the constant bombardment
      > > > > of INVISIBLE ELECTRONIC BEAMS that hammer the body."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Actually, one can do the S.E. before or after
      > > > > TV, i-Pod, radio, telephone, computer, golf, tennis,
      > > > > ocean surfing, snow boarding, intros, shopping, etc.
      > > > > But, isn't daydreaming kind of Astral?! And, isn't Fear
      > > > > mongering, for whatever reason, a KAL technique since
      > > > > Eckists have the Mahanta to "protect" them while non-
      > > > > Eckists don't! It doesn't take a "chela" to use the off-
      > > > > switch once in awhile! LOL!
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "This Hammering Weakens the Body's Defenses.
      > > > > Over the course of many years, an individual will
      > > > > Succumb to Any Number of Illnesses, ALL apparently
      > > > > without cause."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Klemp is saying that those chelas at the ESC
      > > > > who work at their computers 8 hours a day, 5 days
      > > > > a week are also having their bodies hammered and
      > > > > weakened by these "Invisible Electronic Beams"
      > > > > and "will succumb to any number of illnesses" and
      > > > > "all apparently without cause." It would seem that
      > > > > these ill chelas have a cause for legal action and
      > > > > compensation against Klemp and the Eckankar
      > > > > Church for Not protecting them from these harmful
      > > > > "beams." And, since the Mahanta is the highest
      > > > > consciousness on the planet his word on this subject
      > > > > must be heavily weighed by the courts if there is a
      > > > > Workers Compensation Claim filed with the state,
      > > > > or other lawsuit claiming supervised neglect of a
      > > > > "known" hazard.
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "A quiet time for reading will prove beneficial
      > > > > to one. He can sit at his own rate of reading, stopping
      > > > > now and again to let a point settle in. Again, an exciting
      > > > > story may cause him to race on, to see what will happen
      > > > > next. Reading also allows for daydreaming."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Actually, people can quietly "read" on the Internet
      > > > > and at any "rate" or speed! I can even stop and ponder a
      > > > > point and daydream if I want!!! And, I can read things
      > > > > that are current to the Now and are, therefore, not yet
      > > > > (or will ever be) in book form!
      > > > >
      > > > > What kind of "Modern" Prophet is Klemp? This
      > > > > self-created title seems like another oxymoron…
      > > > > like military intelligence! In truth, Klemp is like
      > > > > most religious leaders and wants to control his
      > > > > members by any means possible when using fear,
      > > > > guilt, and shame… and that carrot! Only with
      > > > > Eckankar the "carrot" (i.e. Initiation, Higher
      > > > > Consciousness, Spiritual Freedom, Self-Mastery)
      > > > > is supposed to be caught and eaten in this lifetime
      > > > > instead of the next!
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "And all without the Brutal Hammering of
      > > > > Electronic Meteors that shower down upon the
      > > > > Naked, unprotected planet of his Physical being."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] I'll bet HK loved using "naked." What a
      > > > > visualization! However, does this mean that my
      > > > > i-Pod and cell phone, telephone, TV, radio, car
      > > > > electronics, vacuum cleaner, clock radio, etc.
      > > > > are "bad" too, or is it just our computers and the
      > > > > Internet?! Why can't the Mahanta protect, at least,
      > > > > the Higher Initiates?! This is also bad news for
      > > > > those Internet Eck Book Discussions and sites
      > > > > like HU-Chat and Chela-Chat, etc. Then again,
      > > > > most Eckists won't follow HK's nutty advice
      > > > > anyway! <smile>
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "People may get lost in a virtual book world
      > > > > too."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] People also "get lost" trying to find substance
      > > > > from Klemps talks. These spoken words are even
      > > > > more "virtual" than computer images. Klemp has
      > > > > to convert his words to print ($$$) years after they
      > > > > were spoken, or rely on unofficial note taking and
      > > > > tapes being released (for sale) at the next seminar.
      > > > > But, for someone who constantly dwells in the past
      > > > > this is no big deal for Klemp.
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "Their interests may lie in stories of the past,
      > > > > knowing that history—fact or fiction—matters,
      > > > > for it can teach them about themselves. A well-done
      > > > > history will study characters in depth, BUT with the
      > > > > advantage of objectivity at arm's length. In that way,
      > > > > readers can get beyond the haze that surrounds their
      > > > > own circumstances. So reading is important."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Actually, Klemp is saying that Only reading
      > > > > Books, or print material, is important because the
      > > > > "Electronic Meteors" of EMR from a computer
      > > > > will produce a fog or "haze" in one's mind and
      > > > > this will prevent chelas learning about "themselves."
      > > > >
      > > > > Yet, HK has also stated that all thoughts, words,
      > > > > and books are of the Lower Planes of the mind.
      > > > >
      > > > > How does this really affect the Eck chela if the
      > > > > PR about the Inner/Outer Mahanta is true?! See,
      > > > > Klemp is proving that all of the crap that Eckists
      > > > > are told is true or imagine to be true is Not!
      > > > >
      > > > > HK: "However, so is writing, with pen and paper
      > > > > instead of on a computer."
      > > > >
      > > > > [ME] Klemp is a joke as a Modern Prophet and
      > > > > as spiritual leader. He's not only stuck in the past,
      > > > > but he fears the Truth that Eckists might discover
      > > > > on the Internet. Remember when word processors
      > > > > came out and what an improvement that was for
      > > > > writers! No more white-out! And computers are
      > > > > even better because writers have spell check and
      > > > > can save huge amounts of material and do their
      > > > > own publications. One doesn't have to be online,
      > > > > but according to Klemp being off-line is bad too!
      > > > > He's such an "expert" Liar isn't he!
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyway, there was more to HK's wordy article
      > > > > intended on scaring Eckists away from the Internet,
      > > > > [and sites telling the Truth about Eckankar], but
      > > > > it was redundant and irrelevant so I deleted it.
      > > > >
      > > > > Hey HK… Have A Nice Day! I have Just one question,
      > > > > When you write do you really use an ink pen or a quill?!
      > > > >
      > > > > Prometheus
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
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