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2665Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKANKAR: The Wisdom Notes, June 2007

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  • ewickings
    Jun 25 3:35 PM
       
      Ooops, my bad!  Should have said,
       
      "LOL  Usually most HIs   wouldn't   bother with a lower"
       
       
       
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      From: ewickings
      Date: 6/25/2007 6:29:52 PM
      Subject: Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKANKAR: The Wisdom Notes, June 2007
       
      So basically, I would think you would already have all the info you ask for, if you were that "special" and ran with the pack.  Wow, dated 2 HIs....   They must have ran out of fresh meat to get involved with a lower!    LOL  Usually most HIs would bother with a lower, let alone the RESAs....  Has something to do with having more awareness and direct contact with the Elite.   
       
      So did those HIs have super special techniques?  Since they are in the running to hold the rod....  Ah well maybe I'll not say what I'm really thinking!   Oh hell why not!   Getting some from an HI, did that make you more aware, or were you in it for your own agenda?   I knew a few lowers that thought hanging with the uppers would make them look important, it was an ego thing mostly.   ;-)
       
       
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      From: zoey_true
      Date: 6/25/2007 4:49:11 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: ECKANKAR: The Wisdom Notes, June 2007
       
      hey, mish.  i'm fairly interested in eck events from the past, and in
      the present.  i think it would be quite interesting to know harold's
      family dynamics.
       
      i didn't comment on the wisdom notes because i don't really have a
      comment.  i'm not sure what underlying message hk is trying to convey
      with that computer stuff.  he could be hoping that eckists will
      remain in the dark if they keep away from the internet.  or he could
      be saying that he understands things on a level the rest of us
      don't.  like, he knows about harmful beams, and the rest of us are
      clueless.
       
      i was only in eckankar 5 years, mish.  i was never a higher
      initiate.  but i was as insider as one can be, i suppose, without
      being a higher initiate.  one of my best friends was the RESA, and i
      dated two hi's.  i was one of the club.   - i only relate these
      things to say that i was quite immersed in the whole thing.
       
      later, zoey...
       
       
       
       
       
      <mishmisha9@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, All!
      >
      > Since Prometheus' post on The Wisdom Notes June 2007
      > got side-tracked with the other discussion that Zoey
      > brought to the forefront regarding Klemp's poor
      > family relationships and his hiding his past, I thought
      > I'd bring this more current topic back to the front page
      > for more discussion. It seems to me that what Klemp is saying
      > and writing now is of the upmost importance. I also find
      > it really interesting how Klemp wants to stop chelas,
      > especially the lower initiates from spending what he
      > considers too much time exploring the Internet! I have to
      > ask why he is bothered by this now??? What is going on
      > in his world, that of eckankar, that he is compelled to
      > put these alarms and concerns out there? Of course,
      > from my perspective, it would seem that sites like
      > ESA and other anti-eck groups might be bothering him???
      > Are the anti-eckankar discussions having an impact on the
      > growth of eckankar?? I can only hope so! : )
      >
      > BTW, Zoey, since you are so interested in the past
      > events in eckankar, I was wondering if what is currently
      > taking place concerns/interests you. For instance, what
      > do you think about the Wisdom Notes topic? Also, I really
      > would like to know more about your eck experience when
      > you have the chance. I had asked you in my previous post:
      >
      > "you might have already posted about your eck experience on here
      > or another site, but would you mind refreshing us? How many years
      > you were a member and your level of participation? How long you
      > have been out and why you dropped out? Just curious. Thanks!"
      >
      > Anyway, I hope we can start some good discussions about the
      > impact that the Internet is having on eckankar and its
      > leadership, namely, Klemp as he continues to hold on to the power!
      > LOL!
      >
      > Mish
      >
      >
      > "mishmisha9" <mishmisha9@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Prometheus posted:
      > > Klemp Tries to Keep ECKists Off the Internet
      > > by Using Fear Tactics of Harmful "BEAMS."
      > >
      > > The Wisdom Notes- June 2007:
      > > Klemp wrote:
      > >  "… the Internet, with its e-mail,
      > > instant messaging, games, RESEARCH
      > > GOLD MINES, study courses, and so
      > > much more.
      > >
      > > Many get lost and then swallowed up
      > > in this virtual universe. In doing so,
      > > they lose sight of the ECK.
      > >
      > >  The Internet, therefore, can be a golden
      > > window that opens one to unlimited possibilities
      > > of information and entertainment.
      > >
      > > Yet it can reveal a dark side too.
      > >
      > >  Once cautions were aired about radio, comic
      > > books, and TV." . . .
      > >
      > > ##Prometheus, thanks for sharing Klemp's latest
      > > Wisdom Notes! I have to say that this ranks up
      > > there with Klemp's book "Those Wonderful ECK
      > > Masters" in his attempt to suppress truth and
      > > manipulate his chelas. Rather disgusting while
      > > so laughable how Klemp tries to maintain control
      > > of his power seat. For him and eckankar, the Internet
      > > is a definite threat as more and more chelas search
      > > for the truth, and find it on various discussion sites
      > > that eckankar is based on lies and deceptions, and
      > > Klemp is nothing but a fake master who feasts off
      > > the gullible.
      > >
      > > Logically, when Klemp mentions in his Wisdom Notes
      > > how once society cautioned about radio, comic books
      > > and TV it would seem his cautions about the Internet
      > > should fall on deaf ears. After all, we still listen to the
      > > radio, read comic books and watch TV. Those things were
      > > not passing fancies, and so too, the Internet is here to stay.
      > > I don't think civilization has sunk into a dark abyss because
      > > of these modern electronics. On the contrary, it seems
      > > life has been enhanced and improved for the most part.
      > > Now we can have an abundance of friends from all over the
      > > world that we can easily communicate with on a regular
      > > basis. We can learn lots of information about various
      > > subjects of interest and concern. We can stay current with
      > > the news, etc.
      > >
      > > So, really, what is Klemp's beef about the Internet? I
      > > imagine that he is losing more membership in his org and
      > > that he feels challenged on a daily basis to keep his
      > > lies and deceptions afloat. Yes, eckankar is one of those
      > > orgs that is nothing more than  a sinking ship. Klemp as captain
      > > is not ready to go down, so he is constantly attempting
      > > to plug up the leaks on his ill fated ship. Funny to watch!
      > >
      > > Seems that the Internet and all those foxes guarding the eck
      > > hen house are big problems for Klemp! They go hand in hand,
      > > don't they!  : )
      > >
      > > Mish
      > >
      > >
      > > ***************************************************************
      > > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > >  Klemp Tries to Keep ECKists Off the Internet
      > >  by Using Fear Tactics of Harmful "BEAMS."
      > >
      > >  The Wisdom Notes- June 2007:
      > >
      > >  HK: "… the Internet, with its e-mail,
      > >  instant messaging, games, RESEARCH
      > > GOLD MINES, study courses, and so
      > >  much more.
      > >
      > > Many get lost and then swallowed up
      > >  in this virtual universe. In doing so,
      > > they lose sight of the ECK."
      > >
      > >  [ME] But don't Eckists have their Inner
      > >  Mahanta to Guide them and Protect them,
      > >  or is this just more of HK's lip service?
      > >
      > >  HK: "The Internet, therefore, can be a golden
      > > window that opens one to unlimited possibilities
      > >  of information and entertainment.
      > >
      > >  Yet it can reveal a dark side too."
      > >
      > > [ME] Yes, the dark side of anything can show
      > > itself and be a negative factor, especially, for
      > >  unsupervised children. However, adults are more
      > >  mature and have freedom of choice. Besides, isn't
      > >  this a KAL controlled world of tests and challenges
      > > and why Soul is here for spiritual growth?
      > >
      > >  HK: "Once cautions were aired about radio, comic
      > >  books, and TV."
      > >
      > > [ME] Exactly, so what's your point Mr. Klemp?
      > > Klemp seems to be talking out of both sides of his
      > >  mouth on this issue and wants it both ways.
      > >  However, this is more of a ploy to confuse Eckists
      > > while creating more fears like with the EMR fear
      > >  that he has already established. One has to wonder
      > >  what good is the Mahanta if he can't protect Eckists
      > > from the KAL who only "rules" the Lower Worlds.
      > >  What happened to the Higher Consciousness of the
      > >  Higher Initiations? Klemp repeats this message
      > >  of fear in the H.I. Letter!
      > >
      > > HK: "And still our world spins lazily on.
      > > Unfortunately, some people rely on electronic
      > >  toys to get themselves booted up. They're
      > >  addicts, though, they refuse to face reality.
      > >  Glued to their chairs, they sit and eat, growing
      > > Obese."
      > >
      > > [ME] It seems Klemp is definitely talking about
      > > Cheryl Grumpyman! Maybe he's including his ex-wife,
      > > some ESC staffers and a few RESAs (among others)
      > > too!
      > >
      > > HK: "This is a worst-case scenario that appears
      > >  all too often. They prefer to communicate with
      > > others online instead of face-to-face."
      > >
      > > [ME] Now that's a really stupid and narrow-minded
      > > statement! Klemp is an Idiot! People can't travel those
      > >  distances in the physical world of limitation of time
      > > and space. And it's more convenient, cheaper, and
      > >  "Green" to communicate via computer. I guess that if
      > >  one follows Klemp's distorted logic we shouldn't use
      > > the telephone either! After all, using the phone is not
      > >  "face-to-face" and it is an electronic device that is held
      > > very close to the brain and emits EMR! Be afraid… very
      > >  afraid!
      > >
      > >  HK: "A danger inherent in any outside attraction is
      > > that a chela finds little time for the Spiritual Exercises
      > >  of ECK. So what is missing? Quietude."
      > >
      > > [ME] So, if this is a problem or a negative with
      > > "ANY outside attraction" why pick on just the "Internet"
      > >  with all of the positive benefits it has?! Besides, this
      > >  technology is, also, a means of uniting more people
      > >  than the Mahanta will ever be able to do! Why are there
      > > people at the ESC (and locally) assigned to Internet
      > >  media? See, it's to scare the gullible and fearful from
      > > discovering sites like this.
      > >
      > > HK seems to be inept as an all powerful Mahanta
      > > to influence and control chelas on the Inner Planes
      > > let alone on the outer. Therefore, he resorts to KAListic
      > >  methods by using the written word (print media,
      > > Internet), art work, tapes, CD's, DVD's, and the
      > > telephone/fax to get his outer (Lower Plane) message
      > > out. Like other religious fundamentalist leaders Klemp
      > > would love to have civil laws and government control
      > > implemented to control his flock of hens (roosters too)
      > > in that Eck Henhouse.
      > >
      > > HK: "There must be an oasis of tranquility, of peace
      > > and quiet, for there to be time for spiritual exercises,
      > > just plain reading, or even daydreaming. Reading, for
      > > example, has the power to open children, youth, and
      > > adults new horizons, without the constant bombardment
      > > of INVISIBLE ELECTRONIC BEAMS that hammer the body."
      > >
      > > [ME] Actually, one can do the S.E. before or after
      > > TV, i-Pod, radio, telephone, computer, golf, tennis,
      > > ocean surfing, snow boarding, intros, shopping, etc.
      > >  But, isn't daydreaming kind of Astral?! And, isn't Fear
      > > mongering, for whatever reason, a KAL technique since
      > >  Eckists have the Mahanta to "protect" them while non-
      > >  Eckists don't! It doesn't take a "chela" to use the off-
      > > switch once in awhile! LOL!
      > >
      > > HK: "This Hammering Weakens the Body's Defenses.
      > > Over the course of many years, an individual will
      > > Succumb to Any Number of Illnesses, ALL apparently
      > >  without cause."
      > >
      > > [ME] Klemp is saying that those chelas at the ESC
      > >  who work at their computers 8 hours a day, 5 days
      > > a week are also having their bodies hammered and
      > > weakened by these "Invisible Electronic Beams"
      > > and "will succumb to any number of illnesses" and
      > > "all apparently without cause." It would seem that
      > > these ill chelas have a cause for legal action and
      > >  compensation against Klemp and the Eckankar
      > > Church for Not protecting them from these harmful
      > >  "beams." And, since the Mahanta is the highest
      > > consciousness on the planet his word on this subject
      > >  must be heavily weighed by the courts if there is a
      > > Workers Compensation Claim filed with the state,
      > > or other lawsuit claiming supervised neglect of a
      > > "known" hazard.
      > >
      > >  HK: "A quiet time for reading will prove beneficial
      > > to one. He can sit at his own rate of reading, stopping
      > > now and again to let a point settle in. Again, an exciting
      > > story may cause him to race on, to see what will happen
      > > next. Reading also allows for daydreaming."
      > >
      > >  [ME] Actually, people can quietly "read" on the Internet
      > > and at any "rate" or speed! I can even stop and ponder a
      > >  point and daydream if I want!!! And, I can read things
      > >  that are current to the Now and are, therefore, not yet
      > > (or will ever be) in book form!
      > >
      > >  What kind of "Modern" Prophet is Klemp? This
      > >  self-created title seems like another oxymoron…
      > >  like military intelligence! In truth, Klemp is like
      > > most religious leaders and wants to control his
      > > members by any means possible when using fear,
      > >  guilt, and shame… and that carrot! Only with
      > >  Eckankar the "carrot" (i.e. Initiation, Higher
      > >  Consciousness, Spiritual Freedom, Self-Mastery)
      > > is supposed to be caught and eaten in this lifetime
      > >  instead of the next!
      > >
      > >  HK: "And all without the Brutal Hammering of
      > >  Electronic Meteors that shower down upon the
      > > Naked, unprotected planet of his Physical being."
      > >
      > > [ME] I'll bet HK loved using "naked." What a
      > > visualization! However, does this mean that my
      > > i-Pod and cell phone, telephone, TV, radio, car
      > > electronics, vacuum cleaner, clock radio, etc.
      > >  are "bad" too, or is it just our computers and the
      > >  Internet?! Why can't the Mahanta protect, at least,
      > >  the Higher Initiates?! This is also bad news for
      > > those Internet Eck Book Discussions and sites
      > > like HU-Chat and Chela-Chat, etc. Then again,
      > > most Eckists won't follow HK's nutty advice
      > > anyway! <smile>
      > >
      > > HK: "People may get lost in a virtual book world
      > > too."
      > >
      > >  [ME] People also "get lost" trying to find substance
      > >  from Klemps talks. These spoken words are even
      > >  more "virtual"  than computer images. Klemp has
      > > to convert his words to print ($$$) years after they
      > >  were spoken, or rely on unofficial note taking and
      > >  tapes being released (for sale) at the next seminar.
      > >  But, for someone who constantly dwells in the past
      > >  this is no big deal for Klemp.
      > >
      > >  HK: "Their interests may lie in stories of the past,
      > >  knowing that history—fact or fiction—matters,
      > > for it can teach them about themselves. A well-done
      > >  history will study characters in depth, BUT with the
      > > advantage of objectivity at arm's length. In that way,
      > > readers can get beyond the haze that surrounds their
      > >  own circumstances. So reading is important."
      > >
      > > [ME] Actually, Klemp is saying that Only reading
      > > Books, or print material, is important because the
      > >  "Electronic Meteors" of EMR from a computer
      > > will produce a fog or "haze" in one's mind and
      > >  this will prevent chelas learning about "themselves."
      > >
      > > Yet, HK has also stated that all thoughts, words,
      > > and books are of the Lower Planes of the mind.
      > >
      > >  How does this really affect the Eck chela if the
      > >  PR about the Inner/Outer Mahanta is true?! See,
      > > Klemp is proving that all of the crap that Eckists
      > > are told is true or imagine to be true is Not!
      > >
      > > HK: "However, so is writing, with pen and paper
      > > instead of on a computer."
      > >
      > >  [ME] Klemp is a joke as a Modern Prophet and
      > > as spiritual leader. He's not only stuck in the past,
      > > but he fears the Truth that Eckists might discover
      > > on the Internet. Remember when word processors
      > > came out and what an improvement that was for
      > > writers! No more white-out! And computers are
      > > even better because writers have spell check and
      > > can save huge amounts of material and do their
      > > own publications. One doesn't have to be online,
      > >  but according to Klemp being off-line is bad too!
      > > He's such an "expert" Liar isn't he!
      > >
      > > Anyway, there was more to HK's wordy article
      > > intended on scaring Eckists away from the Internet,
      > > [and sites telling the Truth about Eckankar], but
      > > it was redundant and irrelevant so I deleted it.
      > >
      > > Hey HK… Have A Nice Day! I have Just one question,
      > >  When you write do you really use an ink pen or a quill?!
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      > > >
      > >
      >
       
       
       
       
       
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