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219Re: Some of My Thoughts on Conspiracy Theories, Etc.

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  • truthdecider
    Jul 1, 2005
      Hello Prometheus!

      I was originally going to respond to both your post and Mish's post
      about David Icke with one response. However, I found that there was
      too much to cover if I did it that way, and the post would have
      gotten too long. So I will respond to Mish's post separately.

      Firstly, I agree that David Icke definitely goes too far. He can't
      possibly expect most people to go along with the whole shape-
      shifting reptilian thing, even if he himself does actually believe
      this. And he should realize that. Also, I feel that a lot of his
      books are redundant and repetitive, and dwell too much on his
      perceived negativity in the world. Because of things like this, one
      certainly has to wonder what his motives really are.

      However, if you strip away all of the reptilian stuff, his over
      stressing of negativity as he perceives it, and his repetitiveness,
      his essential message, as I see it, is still good. And his essential
      message is that we live on a planet that is largely controlled by
      people in power who are, for the most part, negative, but it really
      doesn't matter, because we are all eternal, immortal spiritual
      beings, and we only need to reawaken ourselves to this fact to free
      ourselves from this trap, which is actually self created anyway. He
      further states that those negative people in power are actually just
      extensions or reflections of the negative aspects of ourselves.
      Hence, the awakening of our true, highest nature not only frees us
      spiritually, but helps the world at large become more spiritually
      free due to the synergistic effect this has on dissipating this self
      created negativity that we have all manifested, due to the fact that
      the negative aspects of our lower natures have had too strong a say
      in things for too many lifetimes on this planet.

      This essential message of David Icke's is not too different from the
      essential message of many other spiritual teachings that are
      considered very legitimate by many people.

      So, in a nutshell, I feel that his essential points are quite valid,
      but his approach to communicating this, and his over dwelling on
      certain aspects of his perceptions of negativity leave a lot to be
      desired, and do somewhat call his agenda into question.

      Prometheus, you wrote: "These Icke/TRANCE believers are liken to a
      drowning man grabbing at straws to stay afloat! They have no other
      valid belief system to explain why things are as they are. They want
      to believe in aliens and mysteries closer to discovery and
      understanding (in their minds) which bolster their ego's survival
      mechanisms. True spiritual knowingness is beyond their reach due to
      a wide variety of factors, therefore, they seek a new
      rationalization, explanation, and purpose. But, this is merely a
      means of cementing themselves into a new box filled with even more
      illusions and delusions. A total belief in Icke and those with
      similar beliefs and agendas will possibly prevent (for those
      believers) true critical thinking from ever being able to take
      place."

      I don't think that I would say that everyone who takes David Icke
      seriously can be put into this category, anymore than I would say
      that all Roman Catholics (one of the worst and most destructive
      cults of all time, in my opinion) could be put into this category.
      If you step back from the "trees" of the Roman Catholic Church, and
      view the whole "forest", you could certainly say the same things
      that you said about David Icke's followers about all Roman
      Catholics. Just replace the words "aliens and mysteries" in your
      above narrative with "Jesus Christ and the Saints", and the
      word "Icke" with "Roman Catholic".

      But this category that you put all of David Icke's followers into
      would certainly not apply to all Roman Catholics either.

      Prometheus, you wrote "Icke presents a schizophrenic view of world
      society by
      presenting the reptilian/alien mind control-Jewish/Rothschild
      banking conspiracy agenda, etc., etc., but also states that it is
      also a "The Matrix" like illusion! If it is all illusion then does
      the rest really matter?"

      This whole idea of everything being a grand illusion, and yet still
      being important and mattering is not a new concept. It is very
      prevalent in some Eastern philosophies, and is certainly not unique
      to David Icke. This is a common concept throughout much of both the
      Zen and Taoist teachings in particular. It is understood in these
      teachings that the entire universe is a self created illusion, which
      doesn't exist in the sense that we have been taught to believe that
      it does, and yet still matters for the education and spiritual
      growth of the souls that dwell there.

      The highest form of realization is taught to be a state of beingness
      where one has fully realized this illusory nature of life, and yet
      consciously enters back into the illusion to help all the other
      beings that are still trapped in it. This is what David Icke is
      talking about here.

      You say that Icke is basically anti-American. I don't think that he
      is at all. To me, being anti-American means that you don't believe
      in, or you go against the Constitution of the United States. I don't
      see where David Icke has done that. By this definition, the whole
      Bush administration is anti-American, and in my strong opinion, Bush
      should be impeached and removed from office for committing war
      crimes and going against the United States Constitution. Believe me,
      I am a very patriotic man by the true definition of the term.

      And lastly, you wrote: "Intuition, insight,
      clarity, love and joy are all factors that I experience in my life.
      Where are these in the world of David Icke and company? Nowhere!"

      Actually, David Icke's writings stress all of the above quite a bit.
      He speaks at length about developing your intuitive faculties, and
      living your life from the vantage point of who you really are: A
      divine, eternal, immortal, and infinitely loving being that is
      actually already free from it's self created traps in the lower
      worlds, and is already dwelling in the infinite love and joy of it's
      own Beingness.

      Anyway, thanks for your insights on this, even though we obviously
      have very different opinions about it!

      Take care!


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
      > Hello Truthdecider,
      >
      > Welcome to the site!
      >
      > In regard to Icke, he does go after international bankers and
      Jewish
      > leaders by claiming that the Jewish race is just a conspiracy to
      rob
      > Gentiles of their money... but then claims that he does not hate
      > the "ordinary" Jew. Icke is basically anti-U.S., anti-Semitic, but
      > pro Al-Jazeera. Icke also makes a lot of wild claims with no
      > validation and mixes these with some claims grounded in fact.
      Funny,
      > how he supports the TRANCEformation of America con to validate his
      > con. Usually Icke just does a fear mongering reptilian rehash on
      his
      > books. Icke presents a schizophrenic view of world society by
      > presenting the reptilian/alien mind control-Jewish/Rothschild
      > banking conspiracy agenda, etc., etc., but also states that it is
      > also a "The Matrix" like illusion! If it is all illusion then does
      > the rest really matter? Anyway, it is obviously a con and a lower
      > consciousness and negative belief system that Icke has created for
      > those who need to have a some sort of a belief system, purpose,
      and
      > understanding for the lack of control they feel. Some Icke
      followers
      > have never had a true spiritual experience, and are therefore
      > seeking a new secular religion based in conspiracy (which do exist
      > and can be proven). These Icke/TRANCE believers are liken to a
      > drowning man grabbing at straws to stay afloat! They have no other
      > valid belief system to explain why things are as they are. They
      want
      > to believe in aliens and mysteries closer to discovery and
      > understanding (in their minds) which bolster their ego's survival
      > mechanisms. True spiritual knowingness is beyond their reach due
      to
      > a wide varity of factors, therefore, they seek a new
      > rationalization, explaination, and purpose. But, this is merely a
      > means of cementing themselves into a new box filled with even more
      > illusions and delusions. A total belief in Icke and those with
      > similar beliefs and agendas will possibly prevent (for those
      > believers) true critical thinking from ever being able to take
      > place.
      >
      > I still view all of this as a testing ground for Soul, and I have
      > had spiritual experiences to validate this! Intuition, insight,
      > clarity, love and joy are all factors that I experience in my
      life.
      > Where are these in the world of David Icke and company? Nowhere!
      >
      > Anyway, it's just my opinion. However, I would also like for you
      to
      > put your HCS post on Surat Shabda Yoga on this site. I enjoyed
      that
      > post and have some comments that I'd like to make.
      >
      > Thanks again for posting. I hope you will continue to participate
      on
      > this site.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "truthdecider"
      > <truthdecider@y...> wrote:
      > > Hello All,
      > >
      > > I posted most of this over on the ET site, but I thought I would
      > put
      > > it here as well, seeing as how there has been considerable
      > > discussion about these topics here as well.
      > >
      > > My search into the ideas of the possibility of Aliens,
      government
      > > coverups, etc. started after having very direct
      > > experiences with spacecraft that defy all known laws of physics
      as
      > we
      > > have been taught them, and then a lot of harrassment by some very
      > > nasty people when I asked too many questions about it all.
      > >
      > > There is so much information, mis-information, and deliberate
      > > dis-information on the internet about all of these groups and
      > topics
      > > that one ultimately needs to trust their own intuition as far as
      > who
      > > they believe to be speaking at a level that is somewhat close to
      > the
      > > truth.
      > >
      > > For example, Mish mentions that she read that David Icke is a
      Neo-
      > > Nazi. But how do we know that what Mish read about this is valid
      > > information?
      > > There are some web sites out there that state this,
      > > and then try and support and validate that position. I've read
      all
      > of
      > > this as well. However, we need to remember that there are groups
      of
      > > very powerful people in existance that could could decide to
      target
      > > even the sweetest old man in the world, and manufacture and plant
      > > enough evidence on him that would convince the rest of the world
      > that
      > > he was a viscious child molester overnight. If these people
      wanted
      > > this old man out of the way for some reason, if they perceived
      him
      > as
      > > a threat to whatever their agenda is, then they would do this to
      > him
      > > in a heartbeat.
      > >
      > > In my opinion, the reason that this kind of overt action isn't
      > > taken against someone like Icke is that he is way too public
      > already,
      > > and too many of his supporters are aware of how these kinds of
      > setups
      > > are orchestrated, and would all work very hard to expose the
      > > manufacured evidence. But the poor little old man, or woman, or
      > > college kid that just one day decides to start voicing things
      that
      > > this group of people feels is too damaging to their agenda can be
      > > setup like this very easily.
      > >
      > > But manufacturing falsehoods and stories about someone, and
      posting
      > > this false info in newsgroups, BBS's and/or setting up web sites
      to
      > > spread such dis-information is very easy to do to target anyone.
      > >
      > > So, to build on Mish's very good point, we can't take ANY of this
      > > stuff that we read on the internet about any of these groups or
      > > people
      > > at face value. We need to trust our own intuition, which is
      exactly
      > > what I do.
      > >
      > > Now, having said all of this, I need to make it crystal clear
      that
      > > I am in no way sure at this point that I trust David Icke,
      > Cassiopia,
      > > HCS, or ANY of these groups. My jury is still out on all of
      them,
      > as
      > > these things, even with intuition, can take time.
      > >
      > > I am only very sure of three things:
      > >
      > > 1. Something is VERY WRONG with our government today. You can
      even
      > > see this in the recent news about some of the laws that are being
      > > passed with regards to our personal property rights, our right to
      > > privacy, etc.
      > >
      > > 2. There exists on this planet technology and scientific
      > > discoveries that go way beyond what the general public knows
      > about. I
      > > don't honestly know if these were developed here on earth, or if
      > they
      > > are extraterrestrial in nature, but I do know first hand that
      they
      > > exist.
      > >
      > > 3. There are people that very much don't want these technologies
      > > and discoveries to become public knowledge. I don't know exactly
      > why
      > > that is, but I also know first hand that this is true.
      > >
      > > Beyond being sure that the above three things are true, I am even
      > > more sure that I am an eternal, immortal being, as we all are.
      > This I
      > > also know from direct experience, as I'm sure many others here
      do.
      > >
      > > It is my goal and journey to find answers to the three things
      > > mentioned above, as I feel it is vital to spirituality. Just as
      > > vital,
      > > if not more vital than discovering the lies and deceptions that
      may
      > > exist in any number of religious and spiritual paths and
      teachings.
      > >
      > > However, it is in no way my desire to convince anyone else that
      > > these things are spiritually important for them. And I am
      certainly
      > > not trying to convince anyone else about any particular groups
      > ideas,
      > > as I don't even know which, if any, groups I really trust at
      this
      > > point.
      > >
      > > If it is felt that there is no place for any further discussion
      or
      > > exploration in this group about any of the above mentioned
      ideas,
      > and
      > > how they relate to spirituality, than I can assure everyone that
      it
      > > will not be brought up again.
      > >
      > > With best regards,
      > >
      > > Truthdecider
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