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2143Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: 12/2006 MYSTIC WORLD - Ask the Master #1

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  • etznab@aol.com
    Jan 15 10:05 AM
      In a message dated 1/14/07 4:21:54 PM Central Standard Time, tianyue@... writes:

      <snip>
      So, as it appears from your statements, you have adopted Doug
      Marmon's strategy of attempting to minimize the impact of PT's
      plagiarism by pretending it is nothing of consequence.


      <snip>

      Tianyue,

         The creatures of painting stand like living beings,  but if
      we ask them a question, they preserve a solemn silence.
      And so it is with written words; you might think they spoke
      as if they had intelligence, but if you question them, wishing
      to know about their sayings, they always say one and the
      same thing. (12) ¬† -  Socrates¬†

        (12) Phaedrus 275d. See Protagoras 329a, Hippias Minor   365c-d
      (and Republic 378d), Laws 12.968d-e, Letters 7.343a.

         O.K., so this is my point. Until we can identify what
      a person's necessarily unique use of any word(s) may
      actually have meant, the meaning(s) that we attach to
      them are of our own making.

         It also helps to know the context. Is it a story handed
      down? A legend? (modified or not)

         Take Rebazar Tarzs for example. Is it legend that
      he is "supposedly" or "said to be" over 500 years old?
      (Glossary for Eckankar, The Key to Secret Worlds
      says "supposedly". The Eckankar dictionaries say
      "said to be".)

         The latest book about Eck Masters contains the
      word "legend" as well, when it relates a story about
      Rebazar Tarzs (not about his age, but about some-
      thing else).

         I can empathize to some extent with most of your
      observations and/or opinions. However, I still find a
      lot of value in the words that Paul and others have
      shared. What I see in any words, the meanings may
      not absolutely match the meanings intended by any
      particular author. However, that doesn't mean they
      don't hold value for me. This is part of the freedom
      of religion IMO. The freedom to believe in legends
      and myths, etc. (and hopefully know the difference).

         If I knew the context to all the stories, whether literal
      or myth, fiction or non-fiction (etc.), I believe that for my
      better understanding it could help.

         Going back to Rebazar Tarzs. He has been called a
      Tibetan Lama, etc. And due to the 500-year (plus) age
      attached to his character, he does not qualify for the
      description of so many other personages alleged to
      stand for him.

         There is only one other personage that I still "suspect"
      might be connected. And that would be the legend of an
      ancient Tibetan Master found within the teaching path of
      Swami Yogananda, Swami Premananda (b. 1861), and
      Swami Vivekananda (b. 1863), etc.

      "A direct disciple of Swami Yogananda. Swami Premananda
      established the Self Revelation Church of Absolute Monism in
      Washington, D.C."

      http://www.divinelifechurch.org/content/view/17/36/

         O.K., so Paul Twitchell was familiar with both
      Swami
      Premananda and Swami Vivekananda (at least). Paul
      even at one time had belonged to a Church of Absolute
      Monism in Washington, D.C. [1950-1955?]. And still,
      this is speculation to identify Rebazar Tarzs with any
      previous legends if I don't know exactly what was the
      meaning of "supposedly" or "said to be" according to
      Paul Twitchell when he described the age of Rebazar
      Tarzs.

         At any rate, I find history, legend, and myth to be
      interesting conversation topics. There is probably no
      greater material treasure still existing on the Earth
      today than what has preserved (albeit veiled) behind
      the worlds words, languages, and symbols. This can
      appear like a huge treasure chest of priceless and
      valuable artifacts or it can turn out to be like Pandora's
      box containing all the evils of humanity (except for hope).

         IMO, this is the way that I might put it. However, according
      to the quote by Socrates, what good are words if when we
      question them they all say the same thing? (Or, for that matter,
      Missing Persons in the song Words: What are words for When
      no one listens anymore)

         Well I would guess that we each have to find what works
      for us. What works for me (at this point in time) is to explore
      the differences between historical fact, myth, legend, allegory,
      and fable, etc.

         It is not that we can order others to believe in the religion
      (myths and all) subscribed to by ourselves, because in the
      United States there is a separation between Church and State.
      It is not something (to my understanding) that we could even
      propose to become a law by Democratic vote or amendment.
      So (IMO) perhaps there was/is good reason for this separation
      and what stands to keep the U.S. unique among some of the
      other nations who might inhibit "freedom of religion" (not that
      it never could seem inhibited here too). 

         It seems to me, that what most people opposed to particular
      elements of religion really fear, is the possibility that some day
      the Separation of Church and State and the Freedom of Religion
      might become extinct in every nation. That there might come,
      one day, only one form of government and one form of religion.
      That both would share in common but a single author and/or
      leader. That this would not be to every single person's liking or
      advantage. IMO this is the only really great fear, but at the same
      time a necessary crisis for every single individual to solve.  

      Etznab




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