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CGIDEV2 client opportunity - making a case for the AS/400

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  • Michael Bailey
    Hi, We re tendering for an ecommerce website and the client runs it s business systems on the AS/400. They were surprised to discover that the iseries can be a
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 2, 2004
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      Hi,
       
      We're tendering for an ecommerce website and the client runs it's business systems on the AS/400. They were surprised to discover that the iseries can be a web server without any outlay on Websphere etc. so it looks promising.
       
      I need to put forward a strong business case for choosing the AS/400 rather than our competitor's Windows platform solution so I'm brain dumping into Word at the moment.
       
      I was told about this today and I've got until end of day tomorrow to put together a business case, has anybody here done this before and/or could offer a killer business case for choosing CGIDEV2 and the AS/400?
       
      Cheers
      Michael


      Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
    • Shane Bumgarner
      Have you looked at any testimonials on the CGIDEV2 website? I believe there are some out there. Might help you in your project. Maybe also some cost analysis,
      Message 2 of 8 , Dec 2, 2004
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        Have you looked at any testimonials on the CGIDEV2 website? I believe there are some out there. Might help you in your project. Maybe also some cost analysis, APACHE is FREE & mature. That's a pretty good argument right there. You might want to find out what kind of horsepower their 400 has for reference.
        Good Luck


        >>> mjb1908@... 12/2/2004 10:42:49 AM >>>
        Hi,

        We're tendering for an ecommerce website and the client runs it's business systems on the AS/400. They were surprised to discover that the iseries can be a web server without any outlay on Websphere etc. so it looks promising.

        I need to put forward a strong business case for choosing the AS/400 rather than our competitor's Windows platform solution so I'm brain dumping into Word at the moment.

        I was told about this today and I've got until end of day tomorrow to put together a business case, has anybody here done this before and/or could offer a killer business case for choosing CGIDEV2 and the AS/400?

        Cheers
        Michael


        ---------------------------------
        Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
      • schreur@optonline.net
        Look back through some of the previous discussions, there are some that state pros and cons. The 400 can be expensive if you need a second box. There are some
        Message 3 of 8 , Dec 2, 2004
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          Look back through some of the previous discussions, there are some that state pros and cons. The 400 can be expensive if you need a second box. There are some security issues, but they exists with all environments, many people do not like to put their 400 on the "live" web due to security. if you don't go websphere, there will be some "functionality" that you wont have that a application server can give you. However. you can build a solid environment that is somewhat easy to manage, leverages current expertise in the shop, provides really good security for B2B and B2C environments. You can use applets if you really want to get into the higher level of presentations. It can be done pretty easily, and basically the only cost is developer time.
        • Justin Corry
          We have delivered many projects using CGI on the AS/400. The key differentiator for most clients was support and future development. In more than one case, we
          Message 4 of 8 , Dec 2, 2004
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            We have delivered many projects using CGI on the AS/400. The key
            differentiator for most clients was support and future development.
            In more than one case, we were redeveloping a windows-based solution.

            If they are going to use an in-house team to support and develop the
            application after it goes live, the learning curve involved in
            getting their people up to speed is increased by working in multiple
            programming languages on multiple platforms.

            Even if they are using an external company for future development,
            the external company will have greater complexity. There will also
            be less competition between organisations able to support both
            platforms and therefore the rates paid could be permanently higher
            and if service is inadequate they may not have the option to switch.

            Depending on the solution being proposed by your competitor, there
            may be hidden costs in the area of Systems Administration and
            applying patches/updates to the windows based solution.

            Regards,

            Justin.
          • Jon Paris
            ... put together a business case, has anybody here done this before and/or could offer a killer business case for choosing CGIDEV2 and the AS/400? Much as I
            Message 5 of 8 , Dec 2, 2004
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               >> I was told about this today and I've got until end of day tomorrow to put together a business case, has anybody here done this before and/or could offer a killer business case for choosing CGIDEV2 and the AS/400?
               
              Much as I love CGIDEV2, I would not limit my options to that if I was trying to build a business case against Windoze opposition.
               
              Look at Pro-Gen WebSmart - much easier to build a case because:
               
              a) It uses a GUI tool to build the application
              b) It is 4-GL based and extensible
              c) It can generate Java apps so the customer can move to WAS (or Tomcat or whatever) in the future if they want to.
              d) It is not quite as cheap as CGIDEV2 - but you are not competing with free.
              e) There is material on their web site that you can use to help build your case (customer references etc.)
               
              Also look at RPGsp and RSP for other low-cost alternatives - again their web sites can help you build the case.
               
               
              Jon Paris
              Partner400
              www.Partner400.com
               
            • itpweb1
              I was making a similar analysis a few months ago. Reasons why this technology may be right for your organization - You want to get your data on the internet -
              Message 6 of 8 , Dec 2, 2004
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                I was making a similar analysis a few months ago.

                Reasons why this technology may be right for your organization

                - You want to get your data on the internet
                - You want to let your users (employees, customers, members etc)
                enter data via the internet
                - You are an AS/400 shop and want to continue to invest in this
                platform.
                - You have staff who work with RPGIV with some knowledge of ILE
                concepts. (If so, your staff is already 80% trained in this
                technology)
                - You don't want to spend buckets of cash, especially in up-front
                costs. CGIDEV2, the Apache HTTP server and required IBM software is
                likely already on your AS/400 or free to download from IBM.
                - Your files structure and business logic may be very complicated
                and seemingly simple data relationships may not be easy to express
                with SQL (JDBC/ODBC) statements.
                - Your files may be not quite normalized. You may have some program
                defined files, use multiple members or record multiple formats.
                These are not easily interpreted by SQL/OBCD/JDBC based solutions
                like Java, Perl or Microsoft .net.
                - You might already use net.data, perl, jsp or similar scripting
                language for web pages but you want something more tightly
                integrated to the AS/400 DB2 database.
                - You don't want to make the investment in time, training and
                maintaining the latest bleeding edge N-tier technology if you
                don't
                have to.
                - You are not ebay or amazon.com. You don't need a
                `Cadillac'
                solution if a reliable, familiar 'Buick' will suffice for
                your needs.
                - You need a `real-time' solution with tight integration with
                your
                AS/400 database and business rules. Periodic batch updates, data
                extractions, exception reports or re-keying order data are no longer
                viable alternative.

                Reasons why this technology may not be right for your organization
                - You are not an AS/400 shop and have no interest in becoming one.
                - You have already invested (too much?) time and money in J2EE,
                Microsoft.net or other enterprise solutions and are happy with the
                results.
                - Your files structure and business logic is very simple, response
                time is not a big issue and your databases are fully normalized and
                SQL compliant.
                - You have good security reasons for not wanting your enterprise
                AS/400 attached to the internet.
                - You are ebay, amazon.com or you are very big and have very deep
                pockets for R&D. You need the most stable, scalable, fastest
                solution regardless of cost. You have unlimited RAM , CPU and
                bandwidth. Call IBM and have them explain J2EE and Websphere to you
                again.
                - You have no excess processing or disk capacity on your AS/400 and
                cannot foresee adding additional resources in the future . Adding
                new users, even batch HTTP users will not make your system run
                faster.
                - You are still looking for a powerful, versatile, multiplatform
                technology with zero learning curve, that requires no programming
                experience. Keep looking :)

                marty
              • Michael Bailey
                Marty, this is excellent stuff and I really appreciate it - thanks very much. Cheers Michael itpweb1 wrote: I was making a similar
                Message 7 of 8 , Dec 3, 2004
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                  Marty, this is excellent stuff and I really appreciate it - thanks very much.
                   
                  Cheers
                  Michael

                  itpweb1 <montrealhhh@...> wrote:

                  I was making a similar analysis a few months ago.

                  Reasons why this technology may be right for your organization

                  - You want to get your data on the internet
                  - You want to let your users (employees, customers, members etc)
                  enter data via the internet
                  - You are an AS/400 shop and want to continue to invest in this
                  platform.
                  - You have staff who work with RPGIV with some knowledge of ILE
                  concepts.  (If so, your staff is already 80% trained in this
                  technology)
                  - You don't want to spend buckets of cash, especially in up-front
                  costs. CGIDEV2, the Apache HTTP server and required IBM software is
                  likely already on your AS/400 or free to download from IBM.
                  - Your files structure and business logic may be very complicated
                  and seemingly simple data relationships may not be easy to express
                  with SQL (JDBC/ODBC) statements. 
                  - Your files may be not quite normalized. You may have some program
                  defined files, use multiple members or record multiple formats.
                  These are not easily interpreted by SQL/OBCD/JDBC based solutions
                  like Java, Perl or Microsoft .net.
                  - You might already use net.data, perl, jsp or similar scripting
                  language for web pages but you want something more tightly
                  integrated to the AS/400 DB2 database.
                  - You don't want to make the investment in time, training and
                  maintaining the latest bleeding edge N-tier technology if you
                  don't
                  have to.
                  - You are not ebay or amazon.com. You don't need a
                  `Cadillac'
                  solution if a reliable, familiar 'Buick' will suffice for
                  your needs.
                  - You need a `real-time' solution with tight integration with
                  your
                  AS/400 database and business rules. Periodic batch updates, data
                  extractions, exception reports or re-keying order data are no longer
                  viable alternative.

                  Reasons why this technology may not be right  for your organization
                  - You are not an AS/400 shop and have no interest in becoming one.
                  - You have already invested (too much?) time and money in J2EE,
                  Microsoft.net or other enterprise solutions and are happy with the
                  results.
                  - Your files structure and business logic is very simple, response
                  time is not a big issue and your databases are fully normalized and
                  SQL compliant.
                  - You have good security reasons for not wanting your enterprise
                  AS/400 attached to the internet. 
                  - You are ebay, amazon.com or you are very big and have very deep
                  pockets for R&D. You need the most stable, scalable, fastest
                  solution regardless of cost.  You have unlimited RAM , CPU and
                  bandwidth.  Call IBM and have them explain J2EE and Websphere to you
                  again.
                  - You have no excess processing or disk capacity on your AS/400 and
                  cannot foresee adding additional resources in the future .  Adding
                  new users, even batch HTTP users will not make your system run
                  faster.
                  -  You are still looking for a powerful, versatile, multiplatform
                  technology with zero learning curve, that requires no programming
                  experience. Keep looking :)

                  marty







                  Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

                • itpweb1
                  Michael - No problem. Also here is a link to a few examples I worked through while learning CGIDEV2. It includes the e-commerce site from Dr Perotti s site as
                  Message 8 of 8 , Dec 5, 2004
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                    Michael -

                    No problem. Also here is a link to a few examples I worked through
                    while learning CGIDEV2. It includes the e-commerce site from Dr
                    Perotti's site as well as the one from BVS book. The site is a bit
                    of a mess and my technique is still improving...

                    oh and don't forget to sign the guestbook :)

                    marty

                    http://as400.liberty-i.net/cgi-bin/CONTENTS.PGM


                    wrote:
                    > Marty, this is excellent stuff and I really appreciate it - thanks
                    very much.
                    >
                    > Cheers
                    > Michael
                    >
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