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Best replication software

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  • Mandy Beckley
    Hi, We plan to run an eCommerce website using a web application that we ve successfully built with CGIDEV2 and want to make it disaster resistant. My simple
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 1, 2004
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      Hi,

      We plan to run an eCommerce website using a web application that we've successfully built with CGIDEV2 and want to make it disaster resistant.

      My "simple" plan is to have two AS/400s and replicate between them. In the event that one of the machines goes down the other one takes over. A few questions:

      - is this the best way of securing 99.8% uptime for our site?
      - replication software we've looked at seems very expensive - couldn't we just develop our own using journaling or is their a lot more to it? Has anybody tried this?
      - if we have to buy replication software what's the best (or the best value)?
      - could I just buy one AS/400 and partition it or would that be high risk (again cost is a factor)?

      Basically how would you do it? The AS/400 still seems prohibitively expensive to host an eCommerce website.

      If this is not really the right forum to post this then I apologise, please advise where I should post this if not.


      Regards
      Michael


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    • Kevin Schreur
      Michael: Considering that you are discussing CGIDEV2 and how to deploy a viable commerce site, I see no reason why you shouldn t post here. Before anyone can
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 1, 2004
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        Michael:
        Considering that you are discussing CGIDEV2 and how to deploy a viable commerce site, I see no reason why you shouldn't post here. Before anyone can answer your question or give insight, what kind of commerce application is it? Do you need real time inventory availability information? If you run multiple systems are they in the same location? Do you have power generation backup at both locations? How big is the underlying database that will be needed have the site work properly?
         
        The Iseries is not all that expensive really. Depending on how much traffic you expect, you may be able to get a couple of used 170 systems pretty inexpensively or 270 for that matter.
         
        If you could provide some additional information I'm sure you will be able to get feedback that will help.
        Kevin.
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 8:33 AM
        Subject: [Easy400Group] Best replication software

        Hi,

        We plan to run an eCommerce website using a web application that we've successfully built with CGIDEV2 and want to make it disaster resistant.

        My "simple" plan is to have two AS/400s and replicate between them. In the event that one of the machines goes down the other one takes over. A few questions:

        - is this the best way of securing 99.8% uptime for our site?
        - replication software we've looked at seems very expensive - couldn't we just develop our own using journaling or is their a lot more to it? Has anybody tried this?
        - if we have to buy replication software what's the best (or the best value)?
        - could I just buy one AS/400 and partition it or would that be high risk (again cost is a factor)?

        Basically how would you do it? The AS/400 still seems prohibitively expensive to host an eCommerce website.

        If this is not really the right forum to post this then I apologise, please advise where I should post this if not.


        Regards
        Michael


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      • Tom Jedrzejewicz
        Michael -- ... Excellent. Have you posted your success on the Easy/400 tell us page? ... In the event ... If the systems are at different physical locations
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 1, 2004
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          Michael --

          >> We plan to run an eCommerce website using a web application that we've
          >> successfully built with CGIDEV2 and want to make it disaster resistant.

          Excellent. Have you posted your success on the Easy/400 "tell us" page?

          >> My "simple" plan is to have two AS/400s and replicate between them.
          In the event
          >> that one of the machines goes down the other one takes over. A few
          questions:

          >> - is this the best way of securing 99.8% uptime for our site?
          If the systems are at different physical locations and can be swapped
          quickly yes. 99.8% give you 18 hours a year of allowable downtime.
          You can certainly eliminate downtime for backups with this strategy.
          If swapping takes a while, your 0.2% will get eaten up pretty quickly
          in the event of an unplanned failure.

          >> - replication software we've looked at seems very expensive -
          couldn't we just
          >> develop our own using journaling or is their a lot more to it? Has
          anybody tried this?

          There is no reason you couldn't roll your own; there are reference
          materials available on how to do it. The question is one of
          cost-effectiveness, value, and complexity. The commercial solutions
          have monitoring, error correction, automatic switching, etc. already
          built. If you want full redundancy there is a lot to think about. If
          all you need to do is replicate a few database files, programming it
          yourself is not much trouble.

          >> - if we have to buy replication software what's the best (or the
          best value)?
          This segment is very competitive right now, so costs should be
          comparable if you negotiate hard. I can't speak to which is the best
          product.

          >> - could I just buy one AS/400 and partition it or would that be high risk
          >> (again cost is a factor)?

          You could, and in fact you might want to architect your solution using
          a couple of partitions for security. But this offers you no
          protection against hardware failure or network failure.

          >> Basically how would you do it? The AS/400 still seems prohibitively
          expensive to
          >> host an eCommerce website.

          Others can speak to the cost more specifically, but I expect the
          AS/400 to be a bit more expensive upfront and somewhat less expensive
          over time. Highly available configurations for Windows, or LAMP
          (Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP) are not cheap and require substantial
          ongoing monitoring and maintenance. If I had already settled on the
          AS/400, I would get HA software. If you are buying hardware,
          resellers can offer packages of hw, HA sw and services to get going.

          --
          Tom Jedrzejewicz
          tomjedrz@...
        • Mandy Beckley
          It will be a totally integrated office supplies website with realtime stock availability, allocation, registration, order placement, order status etc. to the
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 3, 2004
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            It will be a totally integrated office supplies website with realtime stock availability, allocation, registration, order placement, order status etc. to the back-end fulfilment system which currently runs on the same AS/400 but the link is socketed so it can run on any AS/400.
             
            The database will be between 2-3Gb.
             
            The systems are all located in my office although I would like to get them hosted as I'm a bit short of space (although most hosting companies for iSeries in the UK are very expensive and the cheap hosting companies just want Intel boxes). 
             
            I don't have a power back-up at the moment but it's on the shopping list once I decide on how I should progress.
             
            Cheers
            Michael
             
            Kevin Schreur <schreur@...> wrote:
            Michael:
            Considering that you are discussing CGIDEV2 and how to deploy a viable commerce site, I see no reason why you shouldn't post here. Before anyone can answer your question or give insight, what kind of commerce application is it? Do you need real time inventory availability information? If you run multiple systems are they in the same location? Do you have power generation backup at both locations? How big is the underlying database that will be needed have the site work properly?
             
            The Iseries is not all that expensive really. Depending on how much traffic you expect, you may be able to get a couple of used 170 systems pretty inexpensively or 270 for that matter.
             
            If you could provide some additional information I'm sure you will be able to get feedback that will help.
            Kevin.
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 8:33 AM
            Subject: [Easy400Group] Best replication software

            Hi,

            We plan to run an eCommerce website using a web application that we've successfully built with CGIDEV2 and want to make it disaster resistant.

            My "simple" plan is to have two AS/400s and replicate between them. In the event that one of the machines goes down the other one takes over. A few questions:

            - is this the best way of securing 99.8% uptime for our site?
            - replication software we've looked at seems very expensive - couldn't we just develop our own using journaling or is their a lot more to it? Has anybody tried this?
            - if we have to buy replication software what's the best (or the best value)?
            - could I just buy one AS/400 and partition it or would that be high risk (again cost is a factor)?

            Basically how would you do it? The AS/400 still seems prohibitively expensive to host an eCommerce website.

            If this is not really the right forum to post this then I apologise, please advise where I should post this if not.


            Regards
            Michael


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          • Mandy Beckley
            Thanks for getting back to me Tom. In my 15 years of AS/400 experience it s been a remarkably stable box. However, I guess a partitioned box could cause some
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 3, 2004
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              Thanks for getting back to me Tom. In my 15 years of AS/400 experience it's been a remarkably stable box. However, I guess a partitioned box could cause some sleepless nights if the hardware goes :-/
               
              Another suggested option was to get a 2nd user 170/270 - these are normally relatively cheap but the catch is you have to buy to runtime licences for the licenced programs whereas for partitioning you don't I think (as you may have guessed my budget is tight!).
               
              However, I use an IBM Business Partner in the UK called Triangle who seem to have some good helpful people. I talked to them on Friday and they informed me that my 270 is one of the non-partitionable ones (a 9406-2249) so another factor to consider :-/ I guess the 2nd user box may be the answer.
               
              With regard to the database files there are only about 40 of them (PFs). Perhaps they may not be too difficult to set up for journalling without the need to buy replication software. However, my time and resource is limited so I don't want to end up with a complex 3 month project.
               
              I haven't posted my success on the tell us page yet because I haven't had it yet (next year I'll be there! :-) ). 
               
              Any other advice would be appreciated.
               
              Cheers
              Michael


              Tom Jedrzejewicz <tomjedrz@...> wrote:
              Michael --

              >> We plan to run an eCommerce website using a web application that we've
              >> successfully built with CGIDEV2 and want to make it disaster resistant.

              Excellent.  Have you posted your success on the Easy/400 "tell us" page?

              >> My "simple" plan is to have two AS/400s and replicate between them.
              In the event
              >> that one of the machines goes down the other one takes over. A few
              questions:

              >> - is this the best way of securing 99.8% uptime for our site?
              If the systems are at different physical locations and can be swapped
              quickly yes.  99.8% give you 18 hours a year of allowable downtime.
              You can certainly eliminate downtime for backups with this strategy.
              If swapping takes a while, your 0.2% will get eaten up pretty quickly
              in the event of an unplanned failure.

              >> - replication software we've looked at seems very expensive -
              couldn't we just
              >> develop our own using journaling or is their a lot more to it? Has
              anybody tried this?

              There is no reason you couldn't roll your own; there are reference
              materials available on how to do it.  The question is one of
              cost-effectiveness, value, and complexity.  The commercial solutions
              have monitoring, error correction, automatic switching, etc. already
              built.  If you want full redundancy there is a lot to think about.  If
              all you need to do is replicate a few database files, programming it
              yourself is not much trouble.

              >> - if we have to buy replication software what's the best (or the
              best value)?
              This segment is very competitive right now, so costs should be
              comparable if you negotiate hard.  I can't speak to which is the best
              product.

              >> - could I just buy one AS/400 and partition it or would that be high risk
              >> (again cost is a factor)?

              You could, and in fact you might want to architect your solution using
              a couple of partitions for security.  But this offers you no
              protection against hardware failure or network failure.

              >> Basically how would you do it? The AS/400 still seems prohibitively
              expensive to
              >> host an eCommerce website.

              Others can speak to the cost more specifically, but I expect the
              AS/400 to be a bit more expensive upfront and somewhat less expensive
              over time.  Highly available configurations for Windows, or LAMP
              (Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP) are not cheap and require substantial
              ongoing monitoring and maintenance.  If I had already settled on the
              AS/400, I would get HA software.  If you are buying hardware,
              resellers can offer packages of hw, HA sw and services to get going.

              --
              Tom Jedrzejewicz
              tomjedrz@...

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            • Antoon van Os
              Mandy, If syncronizing data in real-time is sufficient for your needs, I have a tool that helps you do this. It uses remote journalling and generates RPG IV
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 3, 2004
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                Mandy,
                If syncronizing data in real-time is sufficient for your needs, I have a tool that helps you do this. It uses remote journalling and generates RPG IV code 
                for data synchronization. It's nothing special - all based on IBM redbooks on remote journalling - but could help you get started.
                In my experience getting a "true" replication solution is too expensive for what it is, it's like paying for an all-risk for > 100 cars of which
                maybe 2 go down every year, i.e. money thrown away !
                ( i am not in the insurance business ! )
                regards,
                Antoon
                 
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mandy Beckley [mailto:mjb1908@...]
                Sent: zondag 3 oktober 2004 12:25
                To: Easy400Group@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Easy400Group] Best replication software

                Thanks for getting back to me Tom. In my 15 years of AS/400 experience it's been a remarkably stable box. However, I guess a partitioned box could cause some sleepless nights if the hardware goes :-/
                 
                Another suggested option was to get a 2nd user 170/270 - these are normally relatively cheap but the catch is you have to buy to runtime licences for the licenced programs whereas for partitioning you don't I think (as you may have guessed my budget is tight!).
                 
                However, I use an IBM Business Partner in the UK called Triangle who seem to have some good helpful people. I talked to them on Friday and they informed me that my 270 is one of the non-partitionable ones (a 9406-2249) so another factor to consider :-/ I guess the 2nd user box may be the answer.
                 
                With regard to the database files there are only about 40 of them (PFs). Perhaps they may not be too difficult to set up for journalling without the need to buy replication software. However, my time and resource is limited so I don't want to end up with a complex 3 month project.
                 
                I haven't posted my success on the tell us page yet because I haven't had it yet (next year I'll be there! :-) ). 
                 
                Any other advice would be appreciated.
                 
                Cheers
                Michael


                Tom Jedrzejewicz <tomjedrz@...> wrote:
                Michael --

                >> We plan to run an eCommerce website using a web application that we've
                >> successfully built with CGIDEV2 and want to make it disaster resistant.

                Excellent.  Have you posted your success on the Easy/400 "tell us" page?

                >> My "simple" plan is to have two AS/400s and replicate between them.
                In the event
                >> that one of the machines goes down the other one takes over. A few
                questions:

                >> - is this the best way of securing 99.8% uptime for our site?
                If the systems are at different physical locations and can be swapped
                quickly yes.  99.8% give you 18 hours a year of allowable downtime.
                You can certainly eliminate downtime for backups with this strategy.
                If swapping takes a while, your 0.2% will get eaten up pretty quickly
                in the event of an unplanned failure.
                >> - replication software we've looked at seems very expensive -
                couldn't we just
                >> develop our own using journaling or is their a lot more to it? Has
                anybody tried this?

                There is no reason you couldn't roll your own; there are reference
                materials available on how to do it.  The question is one of
                cost-effectiveness, value, and complexity.  The commercial solutions
                have monitoring, error correction, automatic switching, etc. already
                built.  If you want full redundancy there is a lot to think about.  If
                all you need to do is replicate a few database files, programming it
                yourself is not much trouble.

                >> - if we have to buy replication software what's the best (or the
                best value)?
                This segment is very competitive right now, so costs should be
                comparable if you negotiate hard.  I can't speak to which is the best
                product.

                >> - could I just buy one AS/400 and partition it or woul! d that be high risk
                >> (again cost is a factor)?

                You could, and in fact you might want to architect your solution using
                a couple of partitions for security.  But this offers you no
                protection against hardware failure or network failure.

                >> Basically how would you do it? The AS/400 still seems prohibitively
                expensive to
                >> host an eCommerce website.

                Others can speak to the cost more specifically, but I expect the
                AS/400 to be a bit more expensive upfront and somewhat less expensive
                over time.  Highly available configurations for Windows, or LAMP
                (Linux, Apache, MySql, PHP) are not cheap and require substantial
                ongoing monitoring and maintenance.  If I had already settled on the
                AS/400, I would get HA software.  If you are buying hardware,
                resellers can offer packages of hw, HA sw and services to get going.

                --
                Tom Jedrzejewicz
                tomjedrz@...

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                click here


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              • Tom Jedrzejewicz
                Antoon brings up a very salient point. The first question you need to answer is what will be the COST of downtime, and the second is what is the LIKELIHOOD of
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 7, 2004
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                  Antoon brings up a very salient point.

                  The first question you need to answer is what will be the COST of
                  downtime, and the second is what is the LIKELIHOOD of downtime. Those
                  two questions together will tell you how robust a solution you need
                  and what kind of money should be spent to keep it alive.

                  If being down for a day won't have long term impact, then all you need
                  to worry about is not losing data, and a home-grown remote journaling
                  app will probably be sufficient. If on the other hand you need to
                  insure short downtime and quick response, a packaged product is
                  probably a better fit.

                  Take care.

                  On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 20:34:45 +0200, Antoon van Os
                  <antoon_van_os@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mandy,
                  > If syncronizing data in real-time is sufficient for your needs, I have a
                  > tool that helps you do this. It uses remote journalling and generates RPG IV
                  > code
                  > for data synchronization. It's nothing special - all based on IBM redbooks
                  > on remote journalling - but could help you get started.
                  > In my experience getting a "true" replication solution is too expensive for
                  > what it is, it's like paying for an all-risk for > 100 cars of which
                  > maybe 2 go down every year, i.e. money thrown away !
                  > ( i am not in the insurance business ! )
                  > regards,
                  > Antoon
                  >

                  --
                  Tom Jedrzejewicz
                  tomjedrz@...
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