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metal casting repost

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  • thoravolundsdottir
    Morning all; I try not to put long winded posts down the list but I wanted to make sure the stream of the emails was kept in tact. I ve reposted this from a
    Message 1 of 2 , Jul 10 4:38 AM
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      Morning all;

      I try not to put long winded posts down the list but I wanted to make sure the stream of the emails was kept in tact. I've reposted this from a norse group because I think its very important to know about the safety procedures of what it is your doing. Wining it doesn't always work and can cause serious injuries too.
      I won't be offended if you don't read all of it but please skim the first bit.
      and thanks Darrell for the insight


      Thora



      Metals Casting
      Mon Jul 9, 2012 5:08 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Darrell Markewitz" darrellmarkewitz
      On 09/07/12 4:46 AM, Norsefolk_2@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      > 3a. Re: Pewter casting
      > Posted by: "Sam F"oakhammer@... samfalzone
      > Date: Sun Jul 8, 2012 4:19 am ((PDT))
      >
      > I would say, always go with a modern lead-free pewter alloy. I know we're all serious history buffs, but history is not worth risking your health or well-being over. Lead poisoning is nasty stuff.

      I have to strengthen what Charles has said about being careful with
      copper based alloys. With the huge increase in base copper costs over
      the last decade, more and more cheaper metals are being substituted by
      manufacturers. Here read both Zinc and Lead. I personally had the same
      low level toxic exposure that Charles warned off this winter. Very
      nasty. Good news was that I too 'recovered' from the worst of it after a
      couple of days. I suspect both of us will have built up damage to our
      tissues (especially potential liver concentrations.) Very, very, double
      plus un-good.

      So - care when purchasing bronze (copper tin) alloys is called for.
      Always ask for the Materials Data Sheet. In North America, suppliers are
      required by law to supply this information on request. It may mean
      dealing in larger quantities and with more expensive industrial
      suppliers - but toxic heavy metals posioning is for *life*.

      Sam has warned of the same thing with 'pewter'. Modern lead free alloys
      are typically 92 tin, 6 copper, trace of antimony. The antimony is a
      problem, but usually is in the range of 1 - 1.5 %. I've said this
      before, but lead free plumbing solder from your hardware is a safe alloy
      to use.

      One important note however.
      Lead in these mixtures does two things. Both are important to our
      understanding of just how historic casting process will work:
      1) Acts to effectively lower the melting point of the metal.
      Working with small crucibles in a charcoal fire, you can see why that
      might influence your results.
      2) Acts to reduce the viscosity - improving the flow of the liquid metal.

      There are some ways you can work to reduce the impact of a 'thicker'
      flow with the modern tin alloys.
      1) increase the size of the entry cone 'button' to help force the metal
      down into the mould
      2) pre head your moulds

      I have seen modern workers drastically overhead their metal to increase
      its pouring ability. I most definately would *not* recommend this. All
      the toxic effects come from metal as vapour - most likely if the metal
      is overheated. Better just to adjust your mould!

      Darrell

      --
      ****************************************

      Darrell Markewitz - Artisan Blacksmith
      the Wareham Forge - Historic Reproductions & Architectural Forgings
      <http://www.warehamforge.ca>
      Interpretive Program Design - Norse Replicas / Viking Age Equipment
      <http://www.warehamforge.ca/NORSE-REPRO/norse.html>

      Blog : Hammered Out Bits

      Author of:
      Introduction to Blacksmithing (DVD)
      Historic Bladesmithing (DVD)
      Forging the Viking Age (DVD)
      Experimental Iron Smelting from the Viking Age (CD-ROM)
      Exploring the Viking Age in Denmark (data DVD)
      all available at http://www.warehamforge.ca/video.html

      All materials created by Darrell Markewitz copyrighted the author.
      http://www.warehamforge.ca/copy.html

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      1b
      Re: Metals Casting
      Mon Jul 9, 2012 8:10 am (PDT) . Posted by: "martin.bildner@..." martinbildner


      Darrell wrote:

      I have seen modern workers drastically overhead their metal to increase

      its pouring ability. I most definately would *not* recommend this. All

      the toxic effects come from metal as vapour - most likely if the metal

      is overheated. Better just to adjust your mould!

      My other recommendation is to pre heat your mould. A hot mould keeps the pewter liquid longer allowing for a better cast.
      I generally work from a portable stove element on an enamel table. While the metal is heating up, I arrange the stones around the edge of the stove. When I've got a particularly stubborn mould, I will lay it on the element coil directly and use a spring clamp to hold the mould halves together if it is too hot for my insulated gloves.

      Richard/Martin


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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      Re: Metals Casting
      Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:09 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Charles Anderson" charlesian2000
      On 9/07/2012 10:09 PM, Darrell Markewitz wrote:
      > So - care when purchasing bronze (copper tin) alloys is called for.
      > Always ask for the Materials Data Sheet. In North America, suppliers are
      > required by law to supply this information on request. It may mean
      > dealing in larger quantities and with more expensive industrial
      > suppliers - but toxic heavy metals posioning is for *life*.

      This is one of the reasons I alloy my own bronze, I know what goes into it.

      I reckon that if you're going to the trouble of melting bronze, you may
      as well take that next step, and alloy the metal yourself.

      Regards Charles from Oz
    • Helmut's Forge
      Of all safety procedures to pay attention to in casting any metals is ventilation. I cast between 60 and 70 lbs of pure lead each year for the last 5 or 6,
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 11 5:30 AM
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        Of all safety procedures to pay attention to in casting any metals is ventilation. I cast between  60 and 70 lbs of pure lead each year for the last 5 or 6, down from the past. Mostly musket balls, lead soldiers dice, bullets and boxes. I get tested twice a year as well.My levels are within normal ranges for someone living in Hamilton, Ont.
        My casting area is very highly ventilated with an exhaust port near my ladles.
        Besides lead, copper is almost as dangerous, back in the 80's we almost lost an SCA smith to copper toxicity. He did a lot of forged bronze and copper in a closed shop over a winter, it did cripple him. I forge a lot of copper and even with good ventilation my tests run borderline high in the acceptable range. Levels for both metals are cumulative over time so even  low level exposures can build up to dangerous levels, frequent bloodtest are important if you are going to do a lot of casting.
        At sufficient levels all metals are toxic. Stelco had a high level of disability from iron toxicity.
        Helmut

        On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 7:38 AM, thoravolundsdottir <hverweybsmith@...> wrote:
         

        Morning all;

        I try not to put long winded posts down the list but I wanted to make sure the stream of the emails was kept in tact. I've reposted this from a norse group because I think its very important to know about the safety procedures of what it is your doing. Wining it doesn't always work and can cause serious injuries too.
        I won't be offended if you don't read all of it but please skim the first bit.
        and thanks Darrell for the insight

        Thora


        Metals Casting
        Mon Jul 9, 2012 5:08 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Darrell Markewitz" darrellmarkewitz
        On 09/07/12 4:46 AM, Norsefolk_2@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        > 3a. Re: Pewter casting
        > Posted by: "Sam F"oakhammer@... samfalzone
        > Date: Sun Jul 8, 2012 4:19 am ((PDT))
        >
        > I would say, always go with a modern lead-free pewter alloy. I know we're all serious history buffs, but history is not worth risking your health or well-being over. Lead poisoning is nasty stuff.

        I have to strengthen what Charles has said about being careful with
        copper based alloys. With the huge increase in base copper costs over
        the last decade, more and more cheaper metals are being substituted by
        manufacturers. Here read both Zinc and Lead. I personally had the same
        low level toxic exposure that Charles warned off this winter. Very
        nasty. Good news was that I too 'recovered' from the worst of it after a
        couple of days. I suspect both of us will have built up damage to our
        tissues (especially potential liver concentrations.) Very, very, double
        plus un-good.

        So - care when purchasing bronze (copper tin) alloys is called for.
        Always ask for the Materials Data Sheet. In North America, suppliers are
        required by law to supply this information on request. It may mean
        dealing in larger quantities and with more expensive industrial
        suppliers - but toxic heavy metals posioning is for *life*.

        Sam has warned of the same thing with 'pewter'. Modern lead free alloys
        are typically 92 tin, 6 copper, trace of antimony. The antimony is a
        problem, but usually is in the range of 1 - 1.5 %. I've said this
        before, but lead free plumbing solder from your hardware is a safe alloy
        to use.

        One important note however.
        Lead in these mixtures does two things. Both are important to our
        understanding of just how historic casting process will work:
        1) Acts to effectively lower the melting point of the metal.
        Working with small crucibles in a charcoal fire, you can see why that
        might influence your results.
        2) Acts to reduce the viscosity - improving the flow of the liquid metal.

        There are some ways you can work to reduce the impact of a 'thicker'
        flow with the modern tin alloys.
        1) increase the size of the entry cone 'button' to help force the metal
        down into the mould
        2) pre head your moulds

        I have seen modern workers drastically overhead their metal to increase
        its pouring ability. I most definately would *not* recommend this. All
        the toxic effects come from metal as vapour - most likely if the metal
        is overheated. Better just to adjust your mould!

        Darrell

        --
        ****************************************

        Darrell Markewitz - Artisan Blacksmith
        the Wareham Forge - Historic Reproductions & Architectural Forgings
        <http://www.warehamforge.ca>
        Interpretive Program Design - Norse Replicas / Viking Age Equipment
        <http://www.warehamforge.ca/NORSE-REPRO/norse.html>

        Blog : Hammered Out Bits

        Author of:
        Introduction to Blacksmithing (DVD)
        Historic Bladesmithing (DVD)
        Forging the Viking Age (DVD)
        Experimental Iron Smelting from the Viking Age (CD-ROM)
        Exploring the Viking Age in Denmark (data DVD)
        all available at http://www.warehamforge.ca/video.html

        All materials created by Darrell Markewitz copyrighted the author.
        http://www.warehamforge.ca/copy.html

        ^
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        Reply to sender
        .
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        .
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        1b
        Re: Metals Casting
        Mon Jul 9, 2012 8:10 am (PDT) . Posted by: "martin.bildner@..." martinbildner

        Darrell wrote:

        I have seen modern workers drastically overhead their metal to increase

        its pouring ability. I most definately would *not* recommend this. All

        the toxic effects come from metal as vapour - most likely if the metal

        is overheated. Better just to adjust your mould!

        My other recommendation is to pre heat your mould. A hot mould keeps the pewter liquid longer allowing for a better cast.
        I generally work from a portable stove element on an enamel table. While the metal is heating up, I arrange the stones around the edge of the stove. When I've got a particularly stubborn mould, I will lay it on the element coil directly and use a spring clamp to hold the mould halves together if it is too hot for my insulated gloves.

        Richard/Martin

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        ^
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        Reply to sender
        .
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        .
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        .
        All Messages (3)
        1c
        Re: Metals Casting
        Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:09 am (PDT) . Posted by: "Charles Anderson" charlesian2000
        On 9/07/2012 10:09 PM, Darrell Markewitz wrote:
        > So - care when purchasing bronze (copper tin) alloys is called for.
        > Always ask for the Materials Data Sheet. In North America, suppliers are
        > required by law to supply this information on request. It may mean
        > dealing in larger quantities and with more expensive industrial
        > suppliers - but toxic heavy metals posioning is for *life*.

        This is one of the reasons I alloy my own bronze, I know what goes into it.

        I reckon that if you're going to the trouble of melting bronze, you may
        as well take that next step, and alloy the metal yourself.

        Regards Charles from Oz


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