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February fencing event

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  • patchett
    Greetings one and all from Mistress Rylyn Buchanan, I am the potential autocrat for the rapier event scheduled to be held in February. I am in a bit of a
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 22, 2008
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      Greetings one and all from Mistress Rylyn Buchanan,

      I am the potential autocrat for the rapier event scheduled to be held in
      February. I am in a bit of a tough situation. You see, I told my
      seneschal that I would not run this event, unless I could be certain
      that it would not lose money. Right now, I'm not sure I can keep that
      promise.

      I have searched very hard for a site, at a reasonable cost, that has all
      the things that are needed. I found one, but my break even point is
      still 35 paying participants. Right now, the vote shows that less than
      15 people would seem to be planning on attending. The deadline to make
      the February Tidings is Janurary 1, so the decision needs to be made
      really soon and unless something happens we're not going to run the event.

      So, I'm putting this message out to the list with one question. Is this
      event still worth running or has it passed it's lifespan?

      Respectfully,
      Rylyn
    • Kathleen Gormanshaw
      ... I m really hoping we can run it! But I ve seen the bank account and agree that we have to turn a profit, we can t keep running events at a loss. Eyrny
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 22, 2008
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        At 06:52 PM 12/22/2008, you wrote:
        >So, I'm putting this message out to the list with one question. Is this
        >event still worth running or has it passed it's lifespan?
        I'm really hoping we can run it! But I've seen the bank account and
        agree that we have to turn a profit, we can't keep running events at a loss.

        Eyrny
      • Scott Jones
        If your trying to run a single activity event, your probably not going to get the response you want. The Silk Slippers & crossed swords was a Fencing and
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 22, 2008
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          If your trying to run a single activity event, your probably not going to get the response you want. The Silk Slippers & crossed swords was a Fencing and Dancing event. Also the reason your getting a low # is your posting on a single purpose message board...try posting on the Ealdormere message board, and making it more like SSXS (Dance & Fencing) you'll probably get a better response.

          Dalin - Shire of Trinovantia Novs



          To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.comFrom: patchett@...: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:52:32 -0500Subject: [E_Rapier] February fencing event



          Greetings one and all from Mistress Rylyn Buchanan,I am the potential autocrat for the rapier event scheduled to be held in February. I am in a bit of a tough situation. You see, I told my seneschal that I would not run this event, unless I could be certain that it would not lose money. Right now, I'm not sure I can keep that promise.I have searched very hard for a site, at a reasonable cost, that has all the things that are needed. I found one, but my break even point is still 35 paying participants. Right now, the vote shows that less than 15 people would seem to be planning on attending. The deadline to make the February Tidings is Janurary 1, so the decision needs to be made really soon and unless something happens we're not going to run the event.So, I'm putting this message out to the list with one question. Is this event still worth running or has it passed it's lifespan?Respectfully,Rylyn





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        • patchett
          Dalin, The problem with running a two activity event is the site. Finding a site in Kitchener/Waterloo at a reasonable price that has a large gym, good change
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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            Dalin,

            The problem with running a two activity event is the site. Finding a
            site in Kitchener/Waterloo at a reasonable price that has a large gym,
            good change rooms, a kitchen, easy access from the highway, on a bus
            route, and something for a royalty room was tough enough, adding a
            second gym will be almost impossible.

            With the Known World Dance academy scheduled for later this year in
            June/July, the decision was made to concentrate on the fencing. The
            biggest grumble I hear from fencers is that there is never enough time
            and/or space allocated at a regular event. (I hear that from dancers
            too, but they have something big coming) And as I understand it, this
            is one of the more enjoyable tourney formats out there.

            Personally, I don't think that putting this out to the E-list will
            help. For 95% of the people on the E-list, this message will simply be
            junk. I would have thought that for 100% of the people on this list, it
            would be relevant.

            I also didn't think I was looking for a whole lot of response. My break
            even point is a very tiny 35 people. Most events I run have a break
            even of 60 people or more.

            Respectfully,
            Rylyn


            Scott Jones wrote:
            > If your trying to run a single activity event, your probably not going to get the response you want. The Silk Slippers & crossed swords was a Fencing and Dancing event. Also the reason your getting a low # is your posting on a single purpose message board...try posting on the Ealdormere message board, and making it more like SSXS (Dance & Fencing) you'll probably get a better response.
            >
            > Dalin - Shire of Trinovantia Novs
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • John Enzinas
            ... I think that s awesome. Given that I m 5 hours away, it s winter and Lucia and I are about to try running for B&B, a maybe is the best we can do but I
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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              On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 11:20 AM, patchett <patchett@...> wrote:
              > I also didn't think I was looking for a whole lot of response. My break
              > even point is a very tiny 35 people.

              I think that's awesome. Given that I'm 5 hours away, it's winter and
              Lucia and I are about to try running for B&B, a maybe is the best we
              can do but I really *want* to come.

              That said, have you taken into consideration when counting people that
              partners will often come with the fencer. For example I'd likely be
              bringing along Lucia and Lydia who have both not responded to your
              poll.

              --j
            • patchett
              ... Yes, for every Yes and Maybe I got, I counted them for 1.5. I still have UNDER 15 people in attendance. Rylyn
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                John Enzinas wrote:
                > That said, have you taken into consideration when counting people that
                > partners will often come with the fencer. For example I'd likely be
                > bringing along Lucia and Lydia who have both not responded to your
                > poll.
                >
                >
                Yes, for every Yes and Maybe I got, I counted them for 1.5. I still
                have UNDER 15 people in attendance.

                Rylyn
              • John Enzinas
                ... Rats. I wonder if there is some way we could expand the appeal for this. Perhaps the Preceptor of the EADO could make this the event where those of us
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                  > John Enzinas wrote:
                  >> That said, have you taken into consideration when counting people that
                  >> partners will often come with the fencer. For example I'd likely be
                  >> bringing along Lucia and Lydia who have both not responded to your
                  >> poll.
                  >>
                  >>
                  > Yes, for every Yes and Maybe I got, I counted them for 1.5. I still
                  > have UNDER 15 people in attendance.

                  Rats.

                  I wonder if there is some way we could expand the appeal for this.
                  Perhaps the Preceptor of the EADO could make this the event where
                  those of us wanting to play our Provost's prize finally get the chance
                  to do so (HINT HINT).
                  Perhaps we could expand the search area across the border. I know
                  there are a number of good fencers in Syracuse who could be enticed to
                  come.
                  Perhaps adding some rapier or other classes would get more people to come.

                  --j/g
                • Scott Jones
                  Another thought is not all fencers are represented on the message board. Alot of people don t use the yahoo group. I know that my shire would prbably draw
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                    Another thought is not all fencers are represented on the message board. Alot of people don't use the yahoo group. I know that my shire would prbably draw atleast 4 people, and we've been known to bring up to 15 people. We try to fight and play as a group, and thus bring as many people as we can.

                    Dalin - Shire of Trinovantia Nova



                    To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.comFrom: jenzinas@...: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:50:39 -0500Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] February fencing event



                    > John Enzinas wrote:>> That said, have you taken into consideration when counting people that>> partners will often come with the fencer. For example I'd likely be>> bringing along Lucia and Lydia who have both not responded to your>> poll.>>>>> Yes, for every Yes and Maybe I got, I counted them for 1.5. I still> have UNDER 15 people in attendance.Rats.I wonder if there is some way we could expand the appeal for this.Perhaps the Preceptor of the EADO could make this the event wherethose of us wanting to play our Provost's prize finally get the chanceto do so (HINT HINT).Perhaps we could expand the search area across the border. I knowthere are a number of good fencers in Syracuse who could be enticed tocome.Perhaps adding some rapier or other classes would get more people to come.--j/g





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                  • Scott Jones
                    I also like the idea of doing classes (if we have the space. Make it kinda like the format of KWAR. Get the EAOD involved, and have rapier and late period garb
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                      I also like the idea of doing classes (if we have the space. Make it kinda like the format of KWAR. Get the EAOD involved, and have rapier and late period garb related classes.

                      Dalin - Shire of Trinovantia Nova



                      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.comFrom: jenzinas@...: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:50:39 -0500Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] February fencing event



                      > John Enzinas wrote:>> That said, have you taken into consideration when counting people that>> partners will often come with the fencer. For example I'd likely be>> bringing along Lucia and Lydia who have both not responded to your>> poll.>>>>> Yes, for every Yes and Maybe I got, I counted them for 1.5. I still> have UNDER 15 people in attendance.Rats.I wonder if there is some way we could expand the appeal for this.Perhaps the Preceptor of the EADO could make this the event wherethose of us wanting to play our Provost's prize finally get the chanceto do so (HINT HINT).Perhaps we could expand the search area across the border. I knowthere are a number of good fencers in Syracuse who could be enticed tocome.Perhaps adding some rapier or other classes would get more people to come.--j/g





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                    • Eve Harris & David Stamper
                      There was some discussion of having classes but I think with the size of the site it may be problematic. The draw of this event is the fence until you drop
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                        There was some discussion of having classes but I think with the size of the
                        site it may be problematic. The draw of this event is the fence until you
                        drop aspect and I'm not sure if there would be room for classes as much as I
                        would like to see them (and I can teach both rapier and late period garb).



                        The same goes for EAOD prizes. If people know they are going to be yanked
                        off the fencing floor at some point for a long period to make way for
                        prizes/classes, they may decide not to come. I know there is some
                        opportunity for the general populace to play inn the prizes but that's only
                        after the EAOD people have had a chance (40 bouts per Provost Prize). I too
                        would love a chance to play my prize but I'm not sure this would be the
                        event. I guessing about the space thing, if there is room, then maybe it
                        would be a good thing.



                        Unfortunately I can't seem to find my paperwork from the last SS&CS but I'm
                        guessing the number of fencers attending was at least 25, and I'm not sure
                        how many extra people they brought along who weren't fencers or dances but
                        there were a few.



                        Albrecht, Free Scholar EAOD



                        _____

                        From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of Scott Jones
                        Sent: December 23, 2008 1:19 PM
                        To: e_rapier@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [E_Rapier] February fencing event




                        I also like the idea of doing classes (if we have the space. Make it kinda
                        like the format of KWAR. Get the EAOD involved, and have rapier and late
                        period garb related classes.

                        Dalin - Shire of Trinovantia Nova

                        To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.comFrom> s.comFrom:
                        jenzinas@gmail. <mailto:jenzinas%40gmail.comDate> comDate: Tue, 23 Dec 2008
                        11:50:39 -0500Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] February fencing event

                        > John Enzinas wrote:>> That said, have you taken into consideration when
                        counting people that>> partners will often come with the fencer. For example
                        I'd likely be>> bringing along Lucia and Lydia who have both not responded
                        to your>> poll.>>>>> Yes, for every Yes and Maybe I got, I counted them for
                        1.5. I still> have UNDER 15 people in attendance.Rats.I wonder if there is
                        some way we could expand the appeal for this.Perhaps the Preceptor of the
                        EADO could make this the event wherethose of us wanting to play our
                        Provost's prize finally get the chanceto do so (HINT HINT).Perhaps we could
                        expand the search area across the border. I knowthere are a number of good
                        fencers in Syracuse who could be enticed tocome.Perhaps adding some rapier
                        or other classes would get more people to come.--j/g

                        __________________________________________________________
                        Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
                        http://www.microsof
                        <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx>
                        t.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • argh@cogeco.ca
                        I ll throw my two cents in... What I have found is that what atracts fencers tends to be the things of a low overhead variety (classes, and places to do pick
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                          I'll throw my two cents in...

                          What I have found is that what atracts fencers tends to be the things of a low overhead variety (classes, and places to
                          do pick up fencing). Tournaments tend to be less of a concern (at least for fencers out on this end of the world, I
                          won't speak for the world outside of Skreal). This may sound a little like a Scola, but I would suggest that this would
                          not be a terrible model to build on to start.

                          So the thought is that you want to build an event around the idea of low maintenance. In other words find an
                          inexpensive space that permits you to offer the things fencers are going to seek out. Go with potluck feast, purchase
                          lunch, etc...

                          I could easily run such an event for about $200 in Kingston, and at $10 for site this permits a small number of fencers
                          to maintain an event. Although the fact this is space in Kingston and not a bigger city, has alot to do with it. I
                          might even suggest that by being willing to pony up the dough to cover any potential losses is one way to help gain
                          canton support.

                          I would also suggest that this might be the best mould to build provost prizes for the EAOD on. Back under the London
                          academy in the 16th C it was the responsibility of the prizor to fund the event. If you want to play your provost
                          prize, perhaps one should think about organizing the event. I mean how bad do you want the cookie, if its that
                          important would booking a hall for a day be too much effort? Of course canton interest varies greatly, but, as I said,
                          the prizor covering the difference might be a good way to have these things happen.

                          I think SSXS has perhaps made us a bit fat in our expectations for a "Rapier event" as it was piggy backed on an
                          established event. We are back to square one it seems with little but expectations of what we want to see. The
                          arrangement might of a Rapier event might require some compromises and some risk of loss.

                          There are two things that this requires:

                          The first is leadership, someone has to make the definitive decision and run with (taking the financial bite in the
                          likely event that the sponsoring canton won't offer a blank cheque). In other words somebody has to WANT to make this
                          happen and execute the event. I think we will find that if we try and find the perfect date it will get locked in
                          discussion and never occur. So if this is something that is important, for goodness sake get off your duff and put your
                          money where your mouth is.

                          The second is one of: build it and they will come. An event has to be established for people to start to change the
                          patterns of their lives to start to come. There also has to be the knowledge that something will happen if they show up
                          (and that doesn't necessarily mean tournatments). All of this takes hang time for an event, the ability to have the
                          event run on a regular basis of two or three years, regardless of the losses, after that buzz--I think--will start to
                          carry things. So if the goal is to make this a regular big event be prepared to put your money where your mouth is for
                          the long haul.

                          This is what I tried to do with the Rapier moot back a few years, it was a low key, low overhead rapier event. The
                          reason I didn't keep running it was I soured on the EAOD whose auspices it was run under. It was also a bit of a labour
                          to justify a single theme event to the canton, so it can be an uphill battle outside of the monetary one. When you say
                          the word event, people think about the equasion of herculean efforts in order to create an event large enough to attract
                          the people from far and away they can socialize with. A Rapier event is not such a beast.

                          The biggest thing here is making sure that the event will run without the canton having to lift a finger. This takes
                          forethought and organization. But if you have a bear bones structure hammered down, budgets planned down to the penny,
                          and staff ready to go--and have contingency plans for unforeseen occurrances you'll find that it is a much easier to
                          sell to the canton. You might even find that the this kind of organization is infectious and people will volunteer to
                          help because there is a clear purpose and direction. Be open to these offers, but also keep in mind that it has to be a
                          tight ship and maintain direction and focus. Keep hands busy (or offer space to permit them to be occupied), because
                          idle hands who aren't fencers are likely to get bored in a hurry at small rapier event.

                          Anyway I've rambled on enough I think, but I'll leave you with this final suggestion. Ask around (both SCAdian and
                          mundanely) at what people have discovered about spaces that are out there, and what their prices are. With a little
                          effort and imagination its amazing what you can put together.

                          Ta

                          Aaron Miedema
                          It takes at least two zealots to make a fire fight.
                        • Eve Harris & David Stamper
                          If not everybody is on the list then it would be great if folks could get the news out at local meeting/practices. I currently have 65 people on my roster as
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                            If not everybody is on the list then it would be great if folks could get
                            the news out at local meeting/practices. I currently have 65 people on my
                            roster as authorized fencers and, oddly enough, there are 65 people in the
                            Yahoo group but not the same 65 people, but a lot are. So, if we can get a
                            least half of the fencers in Ealdormere out plus whatever hangers on they
                            may bring, we'll be in good shape. This is a great event and I hope we can
                            make it work.



                            Albrecht





                            _____

                            From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of Scott Jones
                            Sent: December 23, 2008 1:18 PM
                            To: e_rapier@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [E_Rapier] February fencing event




                            Another thought is not all fencers are represented on the message board.
                            Alot of people don't use the yahoo group. I know that my shire would prbably
                            draw atleast 4 people, and we've been known to bring up to 15 people. We try
                            to fight and play as a group, and thus bring as many people as we can.

                            Dalin - Shire of Trinovantia Nova

                            To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.comFrom> s.comFrom:
                            jenzinas@gmail. <mailto:jenzinas%40gmail.comDate> comDate: Tue, 23 Dec 2008
                            11:50:39 -0500Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] February fencing event

                            > John Enzinas wrote:>> That said, have you taken into consideration when
                            counting people that>> partners will often come with the fencer. For example
                            I'd likely be>> bringing along Lucia and Lydia who have both not responded
                            to your>> poll.>>>>> Yes, for every Yes and Maybe I got, I counted them for
                            1.5. I still> have UNDER 15 people in attendance.Rats.I wonder if there is
                            some way we could expand the appeal for this.Perhaps the Preceptor of the
                            EADO could make this the event wherethose of us wanting to play our
                            Provost's prize finally get the chanceto do so (HINT HINT).Perhaps we could
                            expand the search area across the border. I knowthere are a number of good
                            fencers in Syracuse who could be enticed tocome.Perhaps adding some rapier
                            or other classes would get more people to come.--j/g

                            __________________________________________________________
                            Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites.
                            http://www.microsof
                            <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx>
                            t.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Kathleen Gormanshaw
                            ... I believe the gym had room for 3 lists, so we could have one bear pit, one tournament, and one EAOD prize. Given the smaller numbers we re looking at, we
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                              At 02:13 PM 12/23/2008, Eve Harris & David Stamper wrote:

                              >The same goes for EAOD prizes. If people know they are going to be yanked
                              >off the fencing floor at some point for a long period to make way for
                              >prizes/classes, they may decide not to come. I know there is some

                              I believe the gym had room for 3 lists, so we could have one bear
                              pit, one tournament, and one EAOD prize. Given the smaller numbers
                              we're looking at, we shouldn't need two lists open for every
                              tournament to run quickly.

                              Eyrny
                            • Kathleen Gormanshaw
                              ... Then I hope you shall do so in the near future. I don t think many of us have that dedication or spare change. ... Archibald, you know nothing about the
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 23, 2008
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                                At 02:18 PM 12/23/2008, you wrote:

                                >I could easily run such an event for about $200 in Kingston, and at
                                >$10 for site this permits a small number of fencers
                                >to maintain an event.

                                Then I hope you shall do so in the near future. I don't think many
                                of us have that dedication or spare change.

                                >The biggest thing here is making sure that the event will run
                                >without the canton having to lift a finger. This takes
                                >forethought and organization. But if you have a bear bones
                                >structure hammered down, budgets planned down to the penny,
                                >and staff ready to go--and have contingency plans for unforeseen
                                >occurrances you'll find that it is a much easier to
                                >
                                >Anyway I've rambled on enough I think, but I'll leave you with this
                                >final suggestion. Ask around (both SCAdian and
                                >mundanely) at what people have discovered about spaces that are out
                                >there, and what their prices are. With a little
                                >effort and imagination its amazing what you can put together.

                                Archibald, you know nothing about the planning or preparation Rylyn
                                has done to be ready to propose this event, nor the experience she
                                has from past events. By assuming she has done none of these things
                                you insult her.

                                A basic part of any budget is anticipated income, and the current
                                stage of planning is trying to get a feel for what that income might be.

                                Eyrny
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