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RE: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR

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  • Anna B
    I d love to see a local K-War, meaning I d actually be able to attend, so if you need extra bodies, do colour me there.   Rusalka ... From: Eve Harris &
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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      I'd love to see a 'local' K-War, meaning I'd actually be able to attend, so if you need extra bodies, do colour me there.
       
      Rusalka

      --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Eve Harris & David Stamper <evedave1@...> wrote:

      From: Eve Harris & David Stamper <evedave1@...>
      Subject: RE: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
      Received: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 8:06 AM






      Things are at a very, very early stage right now. I don't have any specific
      requirements for KWAR right now, but for Known World level events in general
      the policies can be found here:

      http://www.sca. org/docs/ pdf/kweventpolic y.pdf

      Some positions that would need to be filled are:

      Autocrat

      Reservations clerk

      Fencing Marshall/tourney coordinator

      Class coordinator

      Web minister, we need someone to update the site often

      I've tentatively offered to be RMIC/Tourney coordinator for the event.
      Again, this is very early days and, as can be seen from the policies we need
      to have support at the Kingdom level. We need to have a site for the event,
      etc., etc. We need to have a really solid bid. There may not be a KWAR in
      2009 as no bids have been put in for it, but I would still much prefer 2010
      as that would give us a good amount of time to get things done properly,
      especially for bringing in teachers from the SCA and WMA communities who
      often plan their schedules up to a year in advance.

      Any suggestions from the rapier community would be welcome. Some ideas have
      been bounced around between myself and Baroness Aibhilin (who has run KW
      level events) but again, early days (have I said that enough yet?).

      Albrecht

      _____

      From: E_Rapier@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf
      Of argh@cogeco. ca
      Sent: November 19, 2008 1:05 AM
      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup s.com
      Subject: RE: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR

      Is there any official information on expectations and requirements for a
      KWAR? I might need something to keep me amused
      as I wait for the defense of the Thesis in the spring/summer.

      Archibald
      >
      > I've been in discussions with some folks about going for 2010, but I think
      > 2009 would be a bit too early.
      >
      >
      >
      > Albrecht
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier% 40yahoogroups. com> s.com
      [mailto:E_Rapier@ yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier% 40yahoogroups. com> s.com] On
      Behalf
      > Of Aaron Gormanshaw
      > Sent: November 18, 2008 8:47 PM
      > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier% 40yahoogroups. com> s.com
      > Subject: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Forwarded Message ----
      > From: Chris Zakes <dontivar@gmail. <mailto:dontivar@ gmail.
      <mailto:dontivar% 40gmail.com> com> com>
      > To: RapierNet - Fencing in the SCA <sca-rapier@ lists.
      > <mailto:sca- rapier@lists. <mailto:sca- rapier%40lists. ansteorra. org>
      ansteorra.org> ansteorra.org>
      > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 6:18:56 PM
      > Subject: [RN] Next year's KWAR
      >
      > Fair Greetings,
      >
      > According to a notice posted on the Known World Rapier Marshals list
      > earlier today, there are currently *no* bids in hand for next year's
      > Known World Academy of the Rapier. The Society Rapier Marshal has
      > said that if he has not received any bids by December 15th, there
      > won't be a KWAR next year.
      >
      > So... if your kingdom has been talking about hosting a KWAR, now is
      > the time to step forward.
      >
      > -Tivar Moondragon
      > Ansteorra
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ _________ ________
      > Sca-rapier mailing list
      > Sca-rapier@lists. <mailto:Sca- rapier@lists.
      <mailto:Sca- rapier%40lists. ansteorra. org> ansteorra.org> ansteorra.org
      > http://lists.
      > <http://lists.
      <http://lists. ansteorra. org/listinfo. cgi/sca-rapier- ansteorra. org>
      ansteorra.org/ listinfo. cgi/sca-rapier- ansteorra. org>
      > ansteorra.org/ listinfo. cgi/sca-rapier- ansteorra. org
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >

      Aaron Miedema
      Lente autem non celer sum.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • argh@cogeco.ca
      Well, after a first glance, the event looks fairly straight forward 150-200 people isn t overly intimidating. But yes, given the conference / convention
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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        Well, after a first glance, the event looks fairly straight forward 150-200 people isn't overly intimidating. But yes,
        given the conference / convention nature of it space is the big question, and for that yes, kingdom support is likely
        important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said, what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
        event, but tightly run. Now that being said if someone has a crackerjack idea for sometime in the future that this
        would scuttle speak up and I'll back down. I'm just musing aloud at this point.

        The thing is I've got this big old military college here in kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
        summers. Now I'll ask a question of two this week and see if there is a workable idea. I think in such a case the
        issue would more of post 911 security minutiae thing than money, but this might be less of an issue for something like
        this.

        If people want to ponder for the next couple days and see if this possibility sits well sith everyone, I'll make some
        inquiries here and abroad to see if this works.

        Aaron Miedema
        Lente autem non celer sum.
      • Henrietta Verwey
        The RMC sounds like a great place for it, they have the gym area and don t they have drill space indoor and out??. hopefully they like the idea too. it d be
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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          The RMC sounds like a great place for it, they have the gym area and don't
          they have drill space indoor and out??. hopefully they like the idea too.
          it'd be a great venue. so how many autocrats are you asking for? the more
          the merrier and less work on one person? this could be possibly a cool event
          to also have youth (boffer/rapier) classes too???

          and NO I am not volunteering arron, i live in ottawa remember?? just a bit
          too far for running errands after work for it, sorry, maybe next time. but i
          will definately go if its this close.
          so you supply the space and get several local people to help organize it and
          they will come. you know ,getting discounts at a local cheap motel/ hotel
          or camping sites?people for gate/clean up etc etc.. then call the ottawa
          branch of AMA and see if they are interested in doing a class,there are a
          few other groups our way too. i could be presuaded to do some local phone
          calls for you if you wanted so the long distance thing isn't a pain. what
          about barry??? hehe...oh ya not rapier but does it only have to be rapier??
          long sword is fun too??oh and did you get that book done yet????kick...
          well theres my rant for it.

          hope its not on a weekend that i'm doing a demo though.\

          Lady Thora V



          On 11/19/08, argh@... <argh@...> wrote:
          >
          > Well, after a first glance, the event looks fairly straight forward
          > 150-200 people isn't overly intimidating. But yes,
          > given the conference / convention nature of it space is the big question,
          > and for that yes, kingdom support is likely
          > important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said, what
          > I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
          > event, but tightly run. Now that being said if someone has a crackerjack
          > idea for sometime in the future that this
          > would scuttle speak up and I'll back down. I'm just musing aloud at this
          > point.
          >
          > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in kingston that
          > to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
          > summers. Now I'll ask a question of two this week and see if there is a
          > workable idea. I think in such a case the
          > issue would more of post 911 security minutiae thing than money, but this
          > might be less of an issue for something like
          > this.
          >
          > If people want to ponder for the next couple days and see if this
          > possibility sits well sith everyone, I'll make some
          > inquiries here and abroad to see if this works.
          >
          > Aaron Miedema
          > Lente autem non celer sum.
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • David Whitford
          Almost any hisyorical classes are welcome. This past KWAR there longsword and quarterstaff classes. Be sure to look for recognized instructors from out of
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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            Almost any hisyorical classes are welcome. This past KWAR there longsword and quarterstaff classes. Be sure to look for recognized instructors from out of kingdom.
            I have sent Arron some basic info on site needs and I'm sure as his plan forms he'll be asking folks to fill spots and not all of them need to be locals.
            Robert

            --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Henrietta Verwey <hverweybsmith@...> wrote:

            From: Henrietta Verwey <hverweybsmith@...>
            Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
            To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 10:13 AM






            The RMC sounds like a great place for it, they have the gym area and don't
            they have drill space indoor and out??. hopefully they like the idea too.
            it'd be a great venue. so how many autocrats are you asking for? the more
            the merrier and less work on one person? this could be possibly a cool event
            to also have youth (boffer/rapier) classes too???

            and NO I am not volunteering arron, i live in ottawa remember?? just a bit
            too far for running errands after work for it, sorry, maybe next time. but i
            will definately go if its this close.
            so you supply the space and get several local people to help organize it and
            they will come. you know ,getting discounts at a local cheap motel/ hotel
            or camping sites?people for gate/clean up etc etc.. then call the ottawa
            branch of AMA and see if they are interested in doing a class,there are a
            few other groups our way too. i could be presuaded to do some local phone
            calls for you if you wanted so the long distance thing isn't a pain. what
            about barry??? hehe...oh ya not rapier but does it only have to be rapier??
            long sword is fun too??oh and did you get that book done yet????kick. ..
            well theres my rant for it.

            hope its not on a weekend that i'm doing a demo though.\

            Lady Thora V

            On 11/19/08, argh@cogeco. ca <argh@cogeco. ca> wrote:
            >
            > Well, after a first glance, the event looks fairly straight forward
            > 150-200 people isn't overly intimidating. But yes,
            > given the conference / convention nature of it space is the big question,
            > and for that yes, kingdom support is likely
            > important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said, what
            > I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
            > event, but tightly run. Now that being said if someone has a crackerjack
            > idea for sometime in the future that this
            > would scuttle speak up and I'll back down. I'm just musing aloud at this
            > point.
            >
            > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in kingston that
            > to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
            > summers. Now I'll ask a question of two this week and see if there is a
            > workable idea. I think in such a case the
            > issue would more of post 911 security minutiae thing than money, but this
            > might be less of an issue for something like
            > this.
            >
            > If people want to ponder for the next couple days and see if this
            > possibility sits well sith everyone, I'll make some
            > inquiries here and abroad to see if this works.
            >
            > Aaron Miedema
            > Lente autem non celer sum.
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kathleen Gormanshaw
            To be a good Known World event you need to attract people to come from all over the Known World. How will they get to Kingston? Where will they stay? The
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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              To be a good Known World event you need to attract people to come
              from all over the Known World. How will they get to Kingston? Where
              will they stay?

              The last few KWARs have been based in hotels near an international
              airport. They've used the hotel ball rooms and convention spaces for
              lists and classrooms, hotel restaurants for people to eat at. In a
              good economy, a number of people will fly in to KWAR, take the hotel
              shuttle to the hotel, stay and play in the hotel for the weekend,
              then take the hotel shuttle back to the airport. Other people will
              drive in. But it's the overall lure of teachers and fencers you
              don't see regularly, because they're willing to travel for his event,
              that makes it fun and draws more people in.

              We also have to consider that many people who might usually attend a
              KWAR have no need to have a passport, and they will see flying to a
              foreign country as an extra hassle. They'll have to pay $50-$100
              bucks to get a passport, and extra money for the plane fare. Will
              they come? In the current economic climate?? I would not bet on us
              getting 200 people, can you break even at 100 people?

              At 10:40 AM 11/19/2008, argh@... wrote:
              >important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said,
              >what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
              >event, but tightly run.
              > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in
              kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
              >summers.

              We haven't had an Ealdormere Rapier Academy in a long time. And
              Kingston is in a decent place to attract attendees from Aethelmearc
              and parts of the East (advertise it as just 2 hours from the Eastern
              border in their newsletter!). Try running a more local rapier
              academy, modeled after a KWAR but with less risk. We can still see
              about getting in teachers from out of area, many of them will come
              and teach if the event will pay their transportation and accommodation.

              And remember to check those kingdom calendars for conflicting
              events. You need a weekend that has no events in Ealdormere or
              Aethelmearc, and no major events in the East or Midrealm.

              Eyrny
            • Henrietta Verwey
              So about the passport thing, as of this summer is it for both canada and the US that need to get passports or only us? I think that you might see more people
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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                So about the passport thing, as of this summer is it for both canada and the
                US that need to get passports or only us? I think that you might see more
                people who would not normally go, like myself and my boyfriend.I can think
                of at least 3 others who i know would be a definate. how much would the
                cost of train travel be in comparrison from the airport? ok my silly
                question of the day, is there an airport in kingston?? i know its really
                close to the US border by car.
                would the RMC be interested in renting out their dorms (if they have
                any)?and use of the mess hall?? can't be as bad as ration food (minus the
                chocolate bars.).. I know there are lots of well known motels/ hotels
                too,that are close enough to the site, there could possibly be shuttles to
                and from too???


                having helped out at a CANIRON for the blacksmithing organization in
                hamilton years ago( i helped out in the gallery room) i can honestly say
                they did not get as many as an ABANA conference but they did pretty darn
                good from the canadian blacksmiths that normally don't go to far off
                countries. :) also the canadian conference does give a chance for local
                people to have an opportunity that they normally wouldn't have to
                attend. its also not too far from ottawa or toronto, its a nice in between
                site. just being the other side of the coin here. lets not drop the idea
                just because its never been done there before is all I'm saying.

                and this is all hypothetical right now but its good to get these questions
                out now and see if it is viable. i also think that kingston is a beaitful
                back drop too, especially with the water and boats. and for the spouses that
                are going that might not be interested in swords theres lots there from
                museums (ex: fort henry) to shopping to pub paruusing?? whats the name of
                that one with the dragon??

                Lady Thora V


                On 11/19/08, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@...> wrote:
                >
                > To be a good Known World event you need to attract people to come
                > from all over the Known World. How will they get to Kingston? Where
                > will they stay?
                >
                > The last few KWARs have been based in hotels near an international
                > airport. They've used the hotel ball rooms and convention spaces for
                > lists and classrooms, hotel restaurants for people to eat at. In a
                > good economy, a number of people will fly in to KWAR, take the hotel
                > shuttle to the hotel, stay and play in the hotel for the weekend,
                > then take the hotel shuttle back to the airport. Other people will
                > drive in. But it's the overall lure of teachers and fencers you
                > don't see regularly, because they're willing to travel for his event,
                > that makes it fun and draws more people in.
                >
                > We also have to consider that many people who might usually attend a
                > KWAR have no need to have a passport, and they will see flying to a
                > foreign country as an extra hassle. They'll have to pay $50-$100
                > bucks to get a passport, and extra money for the plane fare. Will
                > they come? In the current economic climate?? I would not bet on us
                > getting 200 people, can you break even at 100 people?
                >
                > At 10:40 AM 11/19/2008, argh@... <argh%40cogeco.ca> wrote:
                > >important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said,
                > >what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
                > >event, but tightly run.
                > > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in
                > kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
                > >summers.
                >
                > We haven't had an Ealdormere Rapier Academy in a long time. And
                > Kingston is in a decent place to attract attendees from Aethelmearc
                > and parts of the East (advertise it as just 2 hours from the Eastern
                > border in their newsletter!). Try running a more local rapier
                > academy, modeled after a KWAR but with less risk. We can still see
                > about getting in teachers from out of area, many of them will come
                > and teach if the event will pay their transportation and accommodation.
                >
                > And remember to check those kingdom calendars for conflicting
                > events. You need a weekend that has no events in Ealdormere or
                > Aethelmearc, and no major events in the East or Midrealm.
                >
                > Eyrny
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kathleen Gormanshaw
                ... The US is requiring a passport or other approved document to get into the US. I ve recently been told New York has an enhanced drivers license that is
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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                  At 12:07 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote:
                  >So about the passport thing, as of this summer is it for both canada and the
                  >US that need to get passports or only us?

                  The US is requiring a passport or other approved document to get into
                  the US. I've recently been told New York has an enhanced drivers
                  license that is approved, Ontario doesn't yet but an article this
                  morning talked about it, and I don't know about the other US
                  states. I was told it's an extra $30 to take a regular New York
                  drivers license and get an enhanced one that will work at the border.

                  Eyrny
                • argh@cogeco.ca
                  Well, there is little that can be done to remedy the cross border situation, but you are correct it is something that has to be factored into the events
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
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                    Well, there is little that can be done to remedy the cross border situation, but you are correct it is something that
                    has to be factored into the events appeal. The security issues I speak of have to do with the use of the college
                    itself.

                    The bonus of the college is that it would come--potentially--with accomodations, admittedly residence accomodation, as
                    well as various pub/dining facilities on site. Now all of this is academic if they college is a no go.

                    The biggest issue is transport from the transport hubs, potential a chartered bus from an airport--say Ottawa, or
                    Syracuse--Henry, how is the short bus doing? =) Once again, like border crossing this is something that would have to
                    be factored in.

                    As I said a smaller but tightly run event may work well for a stop gap. But the potential of RMC in fitting the bill,
                    and potentially on a budget may certainly make this a workable idea.

                    And yes there is certainly enough history in kingston to catch the interest of those from farther off. And Kingston has
                    a really good pub culture to offer entertainment in that vein.

                    FYI, the pub with the dragon is the brew pub.

                    I'll start looking into the whys and wherefores today while I'm at the library. I'll report back when I know something.

                    Aaron Miedema
                    Lente autem non celer sum.
                  • leslie falzone
                    Just so you all are aware you can not hold a known world event without kingdom support. aibhilin. ... From: argh@cogeco.ca To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Just so you all are aware you can not hold a known world event without kingdom support.

                      aibhilin.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: argh@...
                      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:40 AM
                      Subject: RE: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR


                      Well, after a first glance, the event looks fairly straight forward 150-200 people isn't overly intimidating. But yes,
                      given the conference / convention nature of it space is the big question, and for that yes, kingdom support is likely
                      important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said, what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
                      event, but tightly run. Now that being said if someone has a crackerjack idea for sometime in the future that this
                      would scuttle speak up and I'll back down. I'm just musing aloud at this point.

                      The thing is I've got this big old military college here in kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
                      summers. Now I'll ask a question of two this week and see if there is a workable idea. I think in such a case the
                      issue would more of post 911 security minutiae thing than money, but this might be less of an issue for something like
                      this.

                      If people want to ponder for the next couple days and see if this possibility sits well sith everyone, I'll make some
                      inquiries here and abroad to see if this works.

                      Aaron Miedema
                      Lente autem non celer sum.





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • leslie falzone
                      Amercian s have to have a passport to get into their own country, and you absolutely have to have one to fly in and out of the US. Summer is harder, lots of
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Amercian's have to have a passport to get into their own country, and you absolutely have to have one to fly in and out of the US. Summer is harder, lots of other events, Univeristies summers start in May. That may open up some possibilities. If we are looking at an international airport in Ontario, we have Ottawa area, Toronto area or Niagara Area (buffalo airport). We really need to plan for breaking even at about 80. the ecomonic climate is scary right now and we do not know how it will be in 2010, so we need to plan for the worst.

                        aibhilin
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Henrietta Verwey
                        To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:07 PM
                        Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR


                        So about the passport thing, as of this summer is it for both canada and the
                        US that need to get passports or only us? I think that you might see more
                        people who would not normally go, like myself and my boyfriend.I can think
                        of at least 3 others who i know would be a definate. how much would the
                        cost of train travel be in comparrison from the airport? ok my silly
                        question of the day, is there an airport in kingston?? i know its really
                        close to the US border by car.
                        would the RMC be interested in renting out their dorms (if they have
                        any)?and use of the mess hall?? can't be as bad as ration food (minus the
                        chocolate bars.).. I know there are lots of well known motels/ hotels
                        too,that are close enough to the site, there could possibly be shuttles to
                        and from too???

                        having helped out at a CANIRON for the blacksmithing organization in
                        hamilton years ago( i helped out in the gallery room) i can honestly say
                        they did not get as many as an ABANA conference but they did pretty darn
                        good from the canadian blacksmiths that normally don't go to far off
                        countries. :) also the canadian conference does give a chance for local
                        people to have an opportunity that they normally wouldn't have to
                        attend. its also not too far from ottawa or toronto, its a nice in between
                        site. just being the other side of the coin here. lets not drop the idea
                        just because its never been done there before is all I'm saying.

                        and this is all hypothetical right now but its good to get these questions
                        out now and see if it is viable. i also think that kingston is a beaitful
                        back drop too, especially with the water and boats. and for the spouses that
                        are going that might not be interested in swords theres lots there from
                        museums (ex: fort henry) to shopping to pub paruusing?? whats the name of
                        that one with the dragon??

                        Lady Thora V

                        On 11/19/08, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > To be a good Known World event you need to attract people to come
                        > from all over the Known World. How will they get to Kingston? Where
                        > will they stay?
                        >
                        > The last few KWARs have been based in hotels near an international
                        > airport. They've used the hotel ball rooms and convention spaces for
                        > lists and classrooms, hotel restaurants for people to eat at. In a
                        > good economy, a number of people will fly in to KWAR, take the hotel
                        > shuttle to the hotel, stay and play in the hotel for the weekend,
                        > then take the hotel shuttle back to the airport. Other people will
                        > drive in. But it's the overall lure of teachers and fencers you
                        > don't see regularly, because they're willing to travel for his event,
                        > that makes it fun and draws more people in.
                        >
                        > We also have to consider that many people who might usually attend a
                        > KWAR have no need to have a passport, and they will see flying to a
                        > foreign country as an extra hassle. They'll have to pay $50-$100
                        > bucks to get a passport, and extra money for the plane fare. Will
                        > they come? In the current economic climate?? I would not bet on us
                        > getting 200 people, can you break even at 100 people?
                        >
                        > At 10:40 AM 11/19/2008, argh@... <argh%40cogeco.ca> wrote:
                        > >important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said,
                        > >what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
                        > >event, but tightly run.
                        > > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in
                        > kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
                        > >summers.
                        >
                        > We haven't had an Ealdormere Rapier Academy in a long time. And
                        > Kingston is in a decent place to attract attendees from Aethelmearc
                        > and parts of the East (advertise it as just 2 hours from the Eastern
                        > border in their newsletter!). Try running a more local rapier
                        > academy, modeled after a KWAR but with less risk. We can still see
                        > about getting in teachers from out of area, many of them will come
                        > and teach if the event will pay their transportation and accommodation.
                        >
                        > And remember to check those kingdom calendars for conflicting
                        > events. You need a weekend that has no events in Ealdormere or
                        > Aethelmearc, and no major events in the East or Midrealm.
                        >
                        > Eyrny
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ross Weaver
                        As a member of the planning crew for the last Known World Event idea for Ealdormere I know it would be very hard to get all the hoops jumped through for Dec
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          As a member of the planning crew for the last Known World Event idea for
                          Ealdormere I know it would be very hard to get all the hoops jumped through
                          for Dec 15.

                          We would have to secure a site and cost.
                          Set a budget and fees. Including attendance estimates and references to
                          previous Known World Events of this type.
                          Fill out the staff, including a dedicated Exchequer.
                          Find a supporting group to foot the bill.
                          Get approval from the Kingdom's Privy Council, meaning they would have to
                          have the above done for their review, at an event at which the privy council
                          is meeting.

                          So all that has to be done in 3.5 weeks, so we can submit it to society for
                          approval.

                          Not to say it can't be done, but I doubt it. Now it wouldn't hurt to do all
                          this for 2010 now, and get the 2010 bid in early...

                          ~Wilhelm

                          On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 6:52 PM, leslie falzone <leslie.falzone@...>wrote:

                          > Amercian's have to have a passport to get into their own country, and
                          > you absolutely have to have one to fly in and out of the US. Summer is
                          > harder, lots of other events, Univeristies summers start in May. That may
                          > open up some possibilities. If we are looking at an international airport in
                          > Ontario, we have Ottawa area, Toronto area or Niagara Area (buffalo
                          > airport). We really need to plan for breaking even at about 80. the ecomonic
                          > climate is scary right now and we do not know how it will be in 2010, so we
                          > need to plan for the worst.
                          >
                          > aibhilin
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: Henrietta Verwey
                          > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com <E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:07 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                          >
                          > So about the passport thing, as of this summer is it for both canada and
                          > the
                          > US that need to get passports or only us? I think that you might see more
                          > people who would not normally go, like myself and my boyfriend.I can think
                          > of at least 3 others who i know would be a definate. how much would the
                          > cost of train travel be in comparrison from the airport? ok my silly
                          > question of the day, is there an airport in kingston?? i know its really
                          > close to the US border by car.
                          > would the RMC be interested in renting out their dorms (if they have
                          > any)?and use of the mess hall?? can't be as bad as ration food (minus the
                          > chocolate bars.).. I know there are lots of well known motels/ hotels
                          > too,that are close enough to the site, there could possibly be shuttles to
                          > and from too???
                          >
                          > having helped out at a CANIRON for the blacksmithing organization in
                          > hamilton years ago( i helped out in the gallery room) i can honestly say
                          > they did not get as many as an ABANA conference but they did pretty darn
                          > good from the canadian blacksmiths that normally don't go to far off
                          > countries. :) also the canadian conference does give a chance for local
                          > people to have an opportunity that they normally wouldn't have to
                          > attend. its also not too far from ottawa or toronto, its a nice in between
                          > site. just being the other side of the coin here. lets not drop the idea
                          > just because its never been done there before is all I'm saying.
                          >
                          > and this is all hypothetical right now but its good to get these questions
                          > out now and see if it is viable. i also think that kingston is a beaitful
                          > back drop too, especially with the water and boats. and for the spouses
                          > that
                          > are going that might not be interested in swords theres lots there from
                          > museums (ex: fort henry) to shopping to pub paruusing?? whats the name of
                          > that one with the dragon??
                          >
                          > Lady Thora V
                          >
                          > On 11/19/08, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@...<kgormanshaw%40rogers.com>>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > To be a good Known World event you need to attract people to come
                          > > from all over the Known World. How will they get to Kingston? Where
                          > > will they stay?
                          > >
                          > > The last few KWARs have been based in hotels near an international
                          > > airport. They've used the hotel ball rooms and convention spaces for
                          > > lists and classrooms, hotel restaurants for people to eat at. In a
                          > > good economy, a number of people will fly in to KWAR, take the hotel
                          > > shuttle to the hotel, stay and play in the hotel for the weekend,
                          > > then take the hotel shuttle back to the airport. Other people will
                          > > drive in. But it's the overall lure of teachers and fencers you
                          > > don't see regularly, because they're willing to travel for his event,
                          > > that makes it fun and draws more people in.
                          > >
                          > > We also have to consider that many people who might usually attend a
                          > > KWAR have no need to have a passport, and they will see flying to a
                          > > foreign country as an extra hassle. They'll have to pay $50-$100
                          > > bucks to get a passport, and extra money for the plane fare. Will
                          > > they come? In the current economic climate?? I would not bet on us
                          > > getting 200 people, can you break even at 100 people?
                          > >
                          > > At 10:40 AM 11/19/2008, argh@... <argh%40cogeco.ca> <argh%
                          > 40cogeco.ca> wrote:
                          > > >important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said,
                          > > >what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
                          > > >event, but tightly run.
                          > > > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in
                          > > kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
                          > > >summers.
                          > >
                          > > We haven't had an Ealdormere Rapier Academy in a long time. And
                          > > Kingston is in a decent place to attract attendees from Aethelmearc
                          > > and parts of the East (advertise it as just 2 hours from the Eastern
                          > > border in their newsletter!). Try running a more local rapier
                          > > academy, modeled after a KWAR but with less risk. We can still see
                          > > about getting in teachers from out of area, many of them will come
                          > > and teach if the event will pay their transportation and accommodation.
                          > >
                          > > And remember to check those kingdom calendars for conflicting
                          > > events. You need a weekend that has no events in Ealdormere or
                          > > Aethelmearc, and no major events in the East or Midrealm.
                          > >
                          > > Eyrny
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Nicholas J. Corkigian
                          Yes. Having been in the loop for this last idea, I ve pretty much been told by various sources that a Known World Event really needs about a year of planning
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Yes. Having been in the loop for this last idea, I've pretty much
                            been told by various sources that a Known World Event really needs
                            about a year of planning (or more!) to get all the hoops taken care
                            of. Attaching "Known World" to the name requires approval of Privy
                            Council, and they are only required to meet once a reign.

                            -Nikolai

                            > As a member of the planning crew for the last Known World Event idea for
                            > Ealdormere I know it would be very hard to get all the hoops jumped through
                            > for Dec 15.
                            >
                            > We would have to secure a site and cost.
                            > Set a budget and fees. Including attendance estimates and references to
                            > previous Known World Events of this type.
                            > Fill out the staff, including a dedicated Exchequer.
                            > Find a supporting group to foot the bill.
                            > Get approval from the Kingdom's Privy Council, meaning they would have to
                            > have the above done for their review, at an event at which the privy council
                            > is meeting.
                            >
                            > So all that has to be done in 3.5 weeks, so we can submit it to society for
                            > approval.
                            >
                            > Not to say it can't be done, but I doubt it. Now it wouldn't hurt to do all
                            > this for 2010 now, and get the 2010 bid in early...
                            >
                            > ~Wilhelm
                          • Eve Harris & David Stamper
                            Yep, and they just had the one for this reign. At that meeting they approved the latest revision of the rapier rules and I should be posting them to the
                            Message 13 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Yep, and they just had the one for this reign. At that meeting they approved
                              the latest revision of the rapier rules and I should be posting them to the
                              e-rapier group and the rapier marshal's group shortly.



                              Albrecht





                              _____

                              From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Nicholas J. Corkigian
                              Sent: November 19, 2008 10:19 PM
                              To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR



                              Yes. Having been in the loop for this last idea, I've pretty much
                              been told by various sources that a Known World Event really needs
                              about a year of planning (or more!) to get all the hoops taken care
                              of. Attaching "Known World" to the name requires approval of Privy
                              Council, and they are only required to meet once a reign.

                              -Nikolai

                              > As a member of the planning crew for the last Known World Event idea for
                              > Ealdormere I know it would be very hard to get all the hoops jumped
                              through
                              > for Dec 15.
                              >
                              > We would have to secure a site and cost.
                              > Set a budget and fees. Including attendance estimates and references to
                              > previous Known World Events of this type.
                              > Fill out the staff, including a dedicated Exchequer.
                              > Find a supporting group to foot the bill.
                              > Get approval from the Kingdom's Privy Council, meaning they would have to
                              > have the above done for their review, at an event at which the privy
                              council
                              > is meeting.
                              >
                              > So all that has to be done in 3.5 weeks, so we can submit it to society
                              for
                              > approval.
                              >
                              > Not to say it can't be done, but I doubt it. Now it wouldn't hurt to do
                              all
                              > this for 2010 now, and get the 2010 bid in early...
                              >
                              > ~Wilhelm





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • David Whitford
                              Early for 2010 would be an excellent idea yes thats a hint from the guy who reviews the bids and hates stress Robert ... From: Ross Weaver
                              Message 14 of 27 , Nov 19, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Early for 2010 would be an excellent idea
                                yes thats a hint from the guy who reviews the bids
                                and hates stress
                                Robert

                                --- On Wed, 11/19/08, Ross Weaver <ross.weaver@...> wrote:

                                From: Ross Weaver <ross.weaver@...>
                                Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Wednesday, November 19, 2008, 8:53 PM





                                As a member of the planning crew for the last Known World Event idea for
                                Ealdormere I know it would be very hard to get all the hoops jumped through
                                for Dec 15.

                                We would have to secure a site and cost.
                                Set a budget and fees. Including attendance estimates and references to
                                previous Known World Events of this type.
                                Fill out the staff, including a dedicated Exchequer.
                                Find a supporting group to foot the bill.
                                Get approval from the Kingdom's Privy Council, meaning they would have to
                                have the above done for their review, at an event at which the privy council
                                is meeting.

                                So all that has to be done in 3.5 weeks, so we can submit it to society for
                                approval.

                                Not to say it can't be done, but I doubt it. Now it wouldn't hurt to do all
                                this for 2010 now, and get the 2010 bid in early...

                                ~Wilhelm

                                On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 6:52 PM, leslie falzone <leslie.falzone@ cogeco.ca>wrote:

                                > Amercian's have to have a passport to get into their own country, and
                                > you absolutely have to have one to fly in and out of the US. Summer is
                                > harder, lots of other events, Univeristies summers start in May. That may
                                > open up some possibilities. If we are looking at an international airport in
                                > Ontario, we have Ottawa area, Toronto area or Niagara Area (buffalo
                                > airport). We really need to plan for breaking even at about 80. the ecomonic
                                > climate is scary right now and we do not know how it will be in 2010, so we
                                > need to plan for the worst.
                                >
                                > aibhilin
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Henrietta Verwey
                                > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup s.com <E_Rapier%40yahoogr oups.com>
                                > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:07 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                >
                                > So about the passport thing, as of this summer is it for both canada and
                                > the
                                > US that need to get passports or only us? I think that you might see more
                                > people who would not normally go, like myself and my boyfriend.I can think
                                > of at least 3 others who i know would be a definate. how much would the
                                > cost of train travel be in comparrison from the airport? ok my silly
                                > question of the day, is there an airport in kingston?? i know its really
                                > close to the US border by car.
                                > would the RMC be interested in renting out their dorms (if they have
                                > any)?and use of the mess hall?? can't be as bad as ration food (minus the
                                > chocolate bars.).. I know there are lots of well known motels/ hotels
                                > too,that are close enough to the site, there could possibly be shuttles to
                                > and from too???
                                >
                                > having helped out at a CANIRON for the blacksmithing organization in
                                > hamilton years ago( i helped out in the gallery room) i can honestly say
                                > they did not get as many as an ABANA conference but they did pretty darn
                                > good from the canadian blacksmiths that normally don't go to far off
                                > countries. :) also the canadian conference does give a chance for local
                                > people to have an opportunity that they normally wouldn't have to
                                > attend. its also not too far from ottawa or toronto, its a nice in between
                                > site. just being the other side of the coin here. lets not drop the idea
                                > just because its never been done there before is all I'm saying.
                                >
                                > and this is all hypothetical right now but its good to get these questions
                                > out now and see if it is viable. i also think that kingston is a beaitful
                                > back drop too, especially with the water and boats. and for the spouses
                                > that
                                > are going that might not be interested in swords theres lots there from
                                > museums (ex: fort henry) to shopping to pub paruusing?? whats the name of
                                > that one with the dragon??
                                >
                                > Lady Thora V
                                >
                                > On 11/19/08, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@ rogers.com<kgormanshaw% 40rogers. com>>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > To be a good Known World event you need to attract people to come
                                > > from all over the Known World. How will they get to Kingston? Where
                                > > will they stay?
                                > >
                                > > The last few KWARs have been based in hotels near an international
                                > > airport. They've used the hotel ball rooms and convention spaces for
                                > > lists and classrooms, hotel restaurants for people to eat at. In a
                                > > good economy, a number of people will fly in to KWAR, take the hotel
                                > > shuttle to the hotel, stay and play in the hotel for the weekend,
                                > > then take the hotel shuttle back to the airport. Other people will
                                > > drive in. But it's the overall lure of teachers and fencers you
                                > > don't see regularly, because they're willing to travel for his event,
                                > > that makes it fun and draws more people in.
                                > >
                                > > We also have to consider that many people who might usually attend a
                                > > KWAR have no need to have a passport, and they will see flying to a
                                > > foreign country as an extra hassle. They'll have to pay $50-$100
                                > > bucks to get a passport, and extra money for the plane fare. Will
                                > > they come? In the current economic climate?? I would not bet on us
                                > > getting 200 people, can you break even at 100 people?
                                > >
                                > > At 10:40 AM 11/19/2008, argh@cogeco. ca <argh%40cogeco. ca> <argh%
                                > 40cogeco.ca> wrote:
                                > > >important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said,
                                > > >what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
                                > > >event, but tightly run.
                                > > > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in
                                > > kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
                                > > >summers.
                                > >
                                > > We haven't had an Ealdormere Rapier Academy in a long time. And
                                > > Kingston is in a decent place to attract attendees from Aethelmearc
                                > > and parts of the East (advertise it as just 2 hours from the Eastern
                                > > border in their newsletter!) . Try running a more local rapier
                                > > academy, modeled after a KWAR but with less risk. We can still see
                                > > about getting in teachers from out of area, many of them will come
                                > > and teach if the event will pay their transportation and accommodation.
                                > >
                                > > And remember to check those kingdom calendars for conflicting
                                > > events. You need a weekend that has no events in Ealdormere or
                                > > Aethelmearc, and no major events in the East or Midrealm.
                                > >
                                > > Eyrny
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • leslie falzone
                                Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is correct, Dec 15 is not possible and will just lead to disappointment. Our deadline for approval by
                                Message 15 of 27 , Nov 20, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is correct, Dec 15 is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.

                                  Our deadline for approval by Kingdom should be one year before the start of the event. Kingdom must approve this prior to going to Society. So We really need to give it to Kingdom several months before we have to have it approved inorder to make any changes they require.

                                  aibhilin
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Ross Weaver
                                  To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:53 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR


                                  As a member of the planning crew for the last Known World Event idea for
                                  Ealdormere I know it would be very hard to get all the hoops jumped through
                                  for Dec 15.

                                  We would have to secure a site and cost.
                                  Set a budget and fees. Including attendance estimates and references to
                                  previous Known World Events of this type.
                                  Fill out the staff, including a dedicated Exchequer.
                                  Find a supporting group to foot the bill.
                                  Get approval from the Kingdom's Privy Council, meaning they would have to
                                  have the above done for their review, at an event at which the privy council
                                  is meeting.

                                  So all that has to be done in 3.5 weeks, so we can submit it to society for
                                  approval.

                                  Not to say it can't be done, but I doubt it. Now it wouldn't hurt to do all
                                  this for 2010 now, and get the 2010 bid in early...

                                  ~Wilhelm

                                  On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 6:52 PM, leslie falzone <leslie.falzone@...>wrote:

                                  > Amercian's have to have a passport to get into their own country, and
                                  > you absolutely have to have one to fly in and out of the US. Summer is
                                  > harder, lots of other events, Univeristies summers start in May. That may
                                  > open up some possibilities. If we are looking at an international airport in
                                  > Ontario, we have Ottawa area, Toronto area or Niagara Area (buffalo
                                  > airport). We really need to plan for breaking even at about 80. the ecomonic
                                  > climate is scary right now and we do not know how it will be in 2010, so we
                                  > need to plan for the worst.
                                  >
                                  > aibhilin
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Henrietta Verwey
                                  > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com <E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:07 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                  >
                                  > So about the passport thing, as of this summer is it for both canada and
                                  > the
                                  > US that need to get passports or only us? I think that you might see more
                                  > people who would not normally go, like myself and my boyfriend.I can think
                                  > of at least 3 others who i know would be a definate. how much would the
                                  > cost of train travel be in comparrison from the airport? ok my silly
                                  > question of the day, is there an airport in kingston?? i know its really
                                  > close to the US border by car.
                                  > would the RMC be interested in renting out their dorms (if they have
                                  > any)?and use of the mess hall?? can't be as bad as ration food (minus the
                                  > chocolate bars.).. I know there are lots of well known motels/ hotels
                                  > too,that are close enough to the site, there could possibly be shuttles to
                                  > and from too???
                                  >
                                  > having helped out at a CANIRON for the blacksmithing organization in
                                  > hamilton years ago( i helped out in the gallery room) i can honestly say
                                  > they did not get as many as an ABANA conference but they did pretty darn
                                  > good from the canadian blacksmiths that normally don't go to far off
                                  > countries. :) also the canadian conference does give a chance for local
                                  > people to have an opportunity that they normally wouldn't have to
                                  > attend. its also not too far from ottawa or toronto, its a nice in between
                                  > site. just being the other side of the coin here. lets not drop the idea
                                  > just because its never been done there before is all I'm saying.
                                  >
                                  > and this is all hypothetical right now but its good to get these questions
                                  > out now and see if it is viable. i also think that kingston is a beaitful
                                  > back drop too, especially with the water and boats. and for the spouses
                                  > that
                                  > are going that might not be interested in swords theres lots there from
                                  > museums (ex: fort henry) to shopping to pub paruusing?? whats the name of
                                  > that one with the dragon??
                                  >
                                  > Lady Thora V
                                  >
                                  > On 11/19/08, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@...<kgormanshaw%40rogers.com>>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > To be a good Known World event you need to attract people to come
                                  > > from all over the Known World. How will they get to Kingston? Where
                                  > > will they stay?
                                  > >
                                  > > The last few KWARs have been based in hotels near an international
                                  > > airport. They've used the hotel ball rooms and convention spaces for
                                  > > lists and classrooms, hotel restaurants for people to eat at. In a
                                  > > good economy, a number of people will fly in to KWAR, take the hotel
                                  > > shuttle to the hotel, stay and play in the hotel for the weekend,
                                  > > then take the hotel shuttle back to the airport. Other people will
                                  > > drive in. But it's the overall lure of teachers and fencers you
                                  > > don't see regularly, because they're willing to travel for his event,
                                  > > that makes it fun and draws more people in.
                                  > >
                                  > > We also have to consider that many people who might usually attend a
                                  > > KWAR have no need to have a passport, and they will see flying to a
                                  > > foreign country as an extra hassle. They'll have to pay $50-$100
                                  > > bucks to get a passport, and extra money for the plane fare. Will
                                  > > they come? In the current economic climate?? I would not bet on us
                                  > > getting 200 people, can you break even at 100 people?
                                  > >
                                  > > At 10:40 AM 11/19/2008, argh@... <argh%40cogeco.ca> <argh%
                                  > 40cogeco.ca> wrote:
                                  > > >important to making something like this happen. Now that beng said,
                                  > > >what I'm looking at is more of a small stop gap
                                  > > >event, but tightly run.
                                  > > > The thing is I've got this big old military college here in
                                  > > kingston that to my knowledge sits mostly idle in the
                                  > > >summers.
                                  > >
                                  > > We haven't had an Ealdormere Rapier Academy in a long time. And
                                  > > Kingston is in a decent place to attract attendees from Aethelmearc
                                  > > and parts of the East (advertise it as just 2 hours from the Eastern
                                  > > border in their newsletter!). Try running a more local rapier
                                  > > academy, modeled after a KWAR but with less risk. We can still see
                                  > > about getting in teachers from out of area, many of them will come
                                  > > and teach if the event will pay their transportation and accommodation.
                                  > >
                                  > > And remember to check those kingdom calendars for conflicting
                                  > > events. You need a weekend that has no events in Ealdormere or
                                  > > Aethelmearc, and no major events in the East or Midrealm.
                                  > >
                                  > > Eyrny
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • John Enzinas
                                  ... a test run for the site. --j [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 27 , Nov 20, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM, leslie falzone <leslie.falzone@...>wrote:

                                    > Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is correct, Dec 15
                                    > is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.
                                    >
                                    > However that doesn't mean that we can't run a Rapier Academe style event as
                                    a test run for the site.

                                    --j


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • leslie falzone
                                    Of course not, testing out the site is a good idea, but I believe that I was referring to the Dec. 15 deadline for Known World. I am sorry if you saw this as
                                    Message 17 of 27 , Nov 20, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Of course not, testing out the site is a good idea, but I believe that I was referring to the Dec. 15 deadline for Known World. I am sorry if you saw this as me saying don't run a trial event, that was not intended.

                                      aibhilin

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: John Enzinas
                                      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:32 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR


                                      On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM, leslie falzone <leslie.falzone@...>wrote:

                                      > Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is correct, Dec 15
                                      > is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.
                                      >
                                      > However that doesn't mean that we can't run a Rapier Academe style event as
                                      a test run for the site.

                                      --j

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • argh@cogeco.ca
                                      Unfortunately this is not one of those things that we cannot use next year, I ll be defending in June and then moving onto another institution for my doctorate
                                      Message 18 of 27 , Nov 20, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Unfortunately this is not one of those things that we cannot use next year, I'll be defending in June and then moving
                                        onto another institution for my doctorate (could be Kingston, Toronto, K-W, Calgary, or even Oxford or Birmingham for
                                        that matter), but I can certainly check out those digs for possibilities when I find out where I land.

                                        A more localized event could work, but it doesn't solve the KWAR 09 problem.

                                        > Of course not, testing out the site is a good idea, but I believe that I was referring to the Dec. 15 deadline for
                                        > Known World. I am sorry if you saw this as me saying don't run a trial event, that was not intended.
                                        >
                                        > aibhilin
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: John Enzinas
                                        > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:32 AM
                                        > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM, leslie falzone <leslie.falzone@...>wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is correct, Dec 15
                                        > > is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.
                                        > >
                                        > > However that doesn't mean that we can't run a Rapier Academe style event as
                                        > a test run for the site.
                                        >
                                        > --j
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >

                                        Aaron Miedema
                                        Lente autem non celer sum.
                                      • Kelly Wyatt
                                        I m afraid that the KWAR 09 problem is not one that Ealdormere is in a position to solve. It would be nice to be able to play white knight but it s just not
                                        Message 19 of 27 , Nov 20, 2008
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          I'm afraid that the KWAR 09 problem is not one that Ealdormere is in a
                                          position to solve. It would be nice to be able to play white knight but it's
                                          just not logistically possible. Would it be such a bad thing to have it take
                                          a year off? Perhaps it would make the following year's event that much more
                                          of interest to participants? And in this time of distressed economies, it
                                          would give everyone that much more time to prepare.

                                          Cainder

                                          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                          MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
                                          SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
                                          Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
                                          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                          Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and sable, two sprigs of witch
                                          hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.





                                          >From: argh@...
                                          >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                          >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                          >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                          >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:46:44 -0500
                                          >
                                          >Unfortunately this is not one of those things that we cannot use next year,
                                          >I'll be defending in June and then moving
                                          >onto another institution for my doctorate (could be Kingston, Toronto, K-W,
                                          >Calgary, or even Oxford or Birmingham for
                                          >that matter), but I can certainly check out those digs for possibilities
                                          >when I find out where I land.
                                          >
                                          >A more localized event could work, but it doesn't solve the KWAR 09
                                          >problem.
                                          >
                                          > > Of course not, testing out the site is a good idea, but I believe that I
                                          >was referring to the Dec. 15 deadline for
                                          > > Known World. I am sorry if you saw this as me saying don't run a trial
                                          >event, that was not intended.
                                          > >
                                          > > aibhilin
                                          > >
                                          > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > From: John Enzinas
                                          > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:32 AM
                                          > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM, leslie falzone
                                          ><leslie.falzone@...>wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > > Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is correct,
                                          >Dec 15
                                          > > > is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > However that doesn't mean that we can't run a Rapier Academe style
                                          >event as
                                          > > a test run for the site.
                                          > >
                                          > > --j
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >Aaron Miedema
                                          >Lente autem non celer sum.
                                          >
                                        • Yvonne Rogers
                                          Hi All, Throwing in my two cents, Having been to my first KWAR, the one in Kentucky, that was extremely easy to get to, I can honestly say its something
                                          Message 20 of 27 , Nov 23, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi All, Throwing in my two cents,

                                            Having been to my first KWAR, the one in Kentucky, that was extremely
                                            easy to get to, I can honestly say its something everyone who enjoys
                                            rapier combat should attend.

                                            It is really great to read of the amount of enthusiasim for there to
                                            be a KWAR here and volunteers willing to step up. I include myself
                                            in that group of volunteers

                                            I spoke with serveral people at KWAR 2008 about past KWAR's and to
                                            potential response if it were to be held in Ontario. There was a lot
                                            positive response if it were held in a city. Apparently past KWAR's
                                            thta were camping events did not work.

                                            Things that seem to matter to those who attend, the site is easy to
                                            get to be either plane, train or automoblie. The event site and
                                            accomadations are directly attached or adjacent to each other.
                                            Alternate food sources and entertainment sources are readibly
                                            available for the evenings.

                                            Considering our neighbouring Kingdoms, Athelmarc, Middle and East, I
                                            would suspect that either Windsor, Hamilton, Toronto or Ottawa would
                                            be ideal cities to plan to hold a KWAR. I'm willing to search for
                                            sites in Toronto, if others are willing to look in the other cities.

                                            Also, timing is important to think about. KWAR tends to fall into the
                                            November time slot, so as not to interfer with
                                            Corinations..etc..Universities and college residences are still in
                                            use. It's also important to keep the American Thanksgiving in mind.

                                            I support a bid for 2010, the 2009 economic enviroment is neither
                                            suitable for our friends to the south, nor to any potential profit.

                                            If this is something the Ealdomere Rapier Community truly wants to
                                            do, we need an Autocrate to spear head the efforts. Who wants the
                                            job? I'm willing to do it, or even Co-Autocrate, so long as those
                                            who are volunteering are dedicated.

                                            YIS
                                            Jocelyne Roget de Cranewall



                                            --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly Wyatt" <kgarlow@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I'm afraid that the KWAR 09 problem is not one that Ealdormere is
                                            in a
                                            > position to solve. It would be nice to be able to play white knight
                                            but it's
                                            > just not logistically possible. Would it be such a bad thing to
                                            have it take
                                            > a year off? Perhaps it would make the following year's event that
                                            much more
                                            > of interest to participants? And in this time of distressed
                                            economies, it
                                            > would give everyone that much more time to prepare.
                                            >
                                            > Cainder
                                            >
                                            > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                            > MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
                                            > SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
                                            > Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
                                            > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                            > Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and sable, two sprigs
                                            of witch
                                            > hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > >From: argh@...
                                            > >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                            > >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:46:44 -0500
                                            > >
                                            > >Unfortunately this is not one of those things that we cannot use
                                            next year,
                                            > >I'll be defending in June and then moving
                                            > >onto another institution for my doctorate (could be Kingston,
                                            Toronto, K-W,
                                            > >Calgary, or even Oxford or Birmingham for
                                            > >that matter), but I can certainly check out those digs for
                                            possibilities
                                            > >when I find out where I land.
                                            > >
                                            > >A more localized event could work, but it doesn't solve the KWAR
                                            09
                                            > >problem.
                                            > >
                                            > > > Of course not, testing out the site is a good idea, but I
                                            believe that I
                                            > >was referring to the Dec. 15 deadline for
                                            > > > Known World. I am sorry if you saw this as me saying don't run
                                            a trial
                                            > >event, that was not intended.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > aibhilin
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > From: John Enzinas
                                            > > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:32 AM
                                            > > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM, leslie falzone
                                            > ><leslie.falzone@...>wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is
                                            correct,
                                            > >Dec 15
                                            > > > > is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > However that doesn't mean that we can't run a Rapier
                                            Academe style
                                            > >event as
                                            > > > a test run for the site.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --j
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >Aaron Miedema
                                            > >Lente autem non celer sum.
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Eve Harris & David Stamper
                                            If we do decide to try and get things off the ground I vote for Lady Jocelyn as Autocrat. I volunteer to be RMIC/Tourney coordinator. Albrecht _____ From:
                                            Message 21 of 27 , Nov 23, 2008
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              If we do decide to try and get things off the ground I vote for Lady Jocelyn
                                              as Autocrat. I volunteer to be RMIC/Tourney coordinator.



                                              Albrecht





                                              _____

                                              From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              Of Yvonne Rogers
                                              Sent: November 23, 2008 10:13 AM
                                              To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: [E_Rapier] Re: Next year's KWAR



                                              Hi All, Throwing in my two cents,

                                              Having been to my first KWAR, the one in Kentucky, that was extremely
                                              easy to get to, I can honestly say its something everyone who enjoys
                                              rapier combat should attend.

                                              It is really great to read of the amount of enthusiasim for there to
                                              be a KWAR here and volunteers willing to step up. I include myself
                                              in that group of volunteers

                                              I spoke with serveral people at KWAR 2008 about past KWAR's and to
                                              potential response if it were to be held in Ontario. There was a lot
                                              positive response if it were held in a city. Apparently past KWAR's
                                              thta were camping events did not work.

                                              Things that seem to matter to those who attend, the site is easy to
                                              get to be either plane, train or automoblie. The event site and
                                              accomadations are directly attached or adjacent to each other.
                                              Alternate food sources and entertainment sources are readibly
                                              available for the evenings.

                                              Considering our neighbouring Kingdoms, Athelmarc, Middle and East, I
                                              would suspect that either Windsor, Hamilton, Toronto or Ottawa would
                                              be ideal cities to plan to hold a KWAR. I'm willing to search for
                                              sites in Toronto, if others are willing to look in the other cities.

                                              Also, timing is important to think about. KWAR tends to fall into the
                                              November time slot, so as not to interfer with
                                              Corinations..etc..Universities and college residences are still in
                                              use. It's also important to keep the American Thanksgiving in mind.

                                              I support a bid for 2010, the 2009 economic enviroment is neither
                                              suitable for our friends to the south, nor to any potential profit.

                                              If this is something the Ealdomere Rapier Community truly wants to
                                              do, we need an Autocrate to spear head the efforts. Who wants the
                                              job? I'm willing to do it, or even Co-Autocrate, so long as those
                                              who are volunteering are dedicated.

                                              YIS
                                              Jocelyne Roget de Cranewall

                                              --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com> s.com, "Kelly
                                              Wyatt" <kgarlow@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > I'm afraid that the KWAR 09 problem is not one that Ealdormere is
                                              in a
                                              > position to solve. It would be nice to be able to play white knight
                                              but it's
                                              > just not logistically possible. Would it be such a bad thing to
                                              have it take
                                              > a year off? Perhaps it would make the following year's event that
                                              much more
                                              > of interest to participants? And in this time of distressed
                                              economies, it
                                              > would give everyone that much more time to prepare.
                                              >
                                              > Cainder
                                              >
                                              > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                              > MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
                                              > SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
                                              > Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
                                              > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                              > Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and sable, two sprigs
                                              of witch
                                              > hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > >From: argh@...
                                              > >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
                                              > >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
                                              > >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                              > >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:46:44 -0500
                                              > >
                                              > >Unfortunately this is not one of those things that we cannot use
                                              next year,
                                              > >I'll be defending in June and then moving
                                              > >onto another institution for my doctorate (could be Kingston,
                                              Toronto, K-W,
                                              > >Calgary, or even Oxford or Birmingham for
                                              > >that matter), but I can certainly check out those digs for
                                              possibilities
                                              > >when I find out where I land.
                                              > >
                                              > >A more localized event could work, but it doesn't solve the KWAR
                                              09
                                              > >problem.
                                              > >
                                              > > > Of course not, testing out the site is a good idea, but I
                                              believe that I
                                              > >was referring to the Dec. 15 deadline for
                                              > > > Known World. I am sorry if you saw this as me saying don't run
                                              a trial
                                              > >event, that was not intended.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > aibhilin
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > From: John Enzinas
                                              > > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com> s.com
                                              > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:32 AM
                                              > > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM, leslie falzone
                                              > ><leslie.falzone@...>wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is
                                              correct,
                                              > >Dec 15
                                              > > > > is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > However that doesn't mean that we can't run a Rapier
                                              Academe style
                                              > >event as
                                              > > > a test run for the site.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --j
                                              > > >
                                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >Aaron Miedema
                                              > >Lente autem non celer sum.
                                              > >
                                              >





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • John Enzinas
                                              I m willing to be Class Coordinator, either for a KWAR or for a smaller event. --j On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Eve Harris & David Stamper
                                              Message 22 of 27 , Nov 23, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I'm willing to be Class Coordinator, either for a KWAR or for a smaller
                                                event.
                                                --j

                                                On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 11:48 AM, Eve Harris & David Stamper <
                                                evedave1@...> wrote:

                                                > If we do decide to try and get things off the ground I vote for Lady
                                                > Jocelyn
                                                > as Autocrat. I volunteer to be RMIC/Tourney coordinator.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Albrecht
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > _____
                                                >
                                                > From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                > Of Yvonne Rogers
                                                > Sent: November 23, 2008 10:13 AM
                                                > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: [E_Rapier] Re: Next year's KWAR
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Hi All, Throwing in my two cents,
                                                >
                                                > Having been to my first KWAR, the one in Kentucky, that was extremely
                                                > easy to get to, I can honestly say its something everyone who enjoys
                                                > rapier combat should attend.
                                                >
                                                > It is really great to read of the amount of enthusiasim for there to
                                                > be a KWAR here and volunteers willing to step up. I include myself
                                                > in that group of volunteers
                                                >
                                                > I spoke with serveral people at KWAR 2008 about past KWAR's and to
                                                > potential response if it were to be held in Ontario. There was a lot
                                                > positive response if it were held in a city. Apparently past KWAR's
                                                > thta were camping events did not work.
                                                >
                                                > Things that seem to matter to those who attend, the site is easy to
                                                > get to be either plane, train or automoblie. The event site and
                                                > accomadations are directly attached or adjacent to each other.
                                                > Alternate food sources and entertainment sources are readibly
                                                > available for the evenings.
                                                >
                                                > Considering our neighbouring Kingdoms, Athelmarc, Middle and East, I
                                                > would suspect that either Windsor, Hamilton, Toronto or Ottawa would
                                                > be ideal cities to plan to hold a KWAR. I'm willing to search for
                                                > sites in Toronto, if others are willing to look in the other cities.
                                                >
                                                > Also, timing is important to think about. KWAR tends to fall into the
                                                > November time slot, so as not to interfer with
                                                > Corinations..etc..Universities and college residences are still in
                                                > use. It's also important to keep the American Thanksgiving in mind.
                                                >
                                                > I support a bid for 2010, the 2009 economic enviroment is neither
                                                > suitable for our friends to the south, nor to any potential profit.
                                                >
                                                > If this is something the Ealdomere Rapier Community truly wants to
                                                > do, we need an Autocrate to spear head the efforts. Who wants the
                                                > job? I'm willing to do it, or even Co-Autocrate, so long as those
                                                > who are volunteering are dedicated.
                                                >
                                                > YIS
                                                > Jocelyne Roget de Cranewall
                                                >
                                                > --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com<E_Rapier%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                                                > s.com, "Kelly
                                                > Wyatt" <kgarlow@...> wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > I'm afraid that the KWAR 09 problem is not one that Ealdormere is
                                                > in a
                                                > > position to solve. It would be nice to be able to play white knight
                                                > but it's
                                                > > just not logistically possible. Would it be such a bad thing to
                                                > have it take
                                                > > a year off? Perhaps it would make the following year's event that
                                                > much more
                                                > > of interest to participants? And in this time of distressed
                                                > economies, it
                                                > > would give everyone that much more time to prepare.
                                                > >
                                                > > Cainder
                                                > >
                                                > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                                > > MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
                                                > > SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
                                                > > Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
                                                > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                                                > > Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and sable, two sprigs
                                                > of witch
                                                > > hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > >From: argh@...
                                                > > >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com<E_Rapier%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                                                > s.com
                                                > > >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com<E_Rapier%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                                                > s.com
                                                > > >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                                > > >Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:46:44 -0500
                                                > > >
                                                > > >Unfortunately this is not one of those things that we cannot use
                                                > next year,
                                                > > >I'll be defending in June and then moving
                                                > > >onto another institution for my doctorate (could be Kingston,
                                                > Toronto, K-W,
                                                > > >Calgary, or even Oxford or Birmingham for
                                                > > >that matter), but I can certainly check out those digs for
                                                > possibilities
                                                > > >when I find out where I land.
                                                > > >
                                                > > >A more localized event could work, but it doesn't solve the KWAR
                                                > 09
                                                > > >problem.
                                                > > >
                                                > > > > Of course not, testing out the site is a good idea, but I
                                                > believe that I
                                                > > >was referring to the Dec. 15 deadline for
                                                > > > > Known World. I am sorry if you saw this as me saying don't run
                                                > a trial
                                                > > >event, that was not intended.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > aibhilin
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > From: John Enzinas
                                                > > > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup <mailto:E_Rapier%40yahoogroups.com<E_Rapier%2540yahoogroups.com>>
                                                > s.com
                                                > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:32 AM
                                                > > > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Fw: [RN] Next year's KWAR
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:03 AM, leslie falzone
                                                > > ><leslie.falzone@...>wrote:
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > > Have successfully run three Known World event, I know he is
                                                > correct,
                                                > > >Dec 15
                                                > > > > > is not possible and will just lead to disappointment.
                                                > > > > >
                                                > > > > > However that doesn't mean that we can't run a Rapier
                                                > Academe style
                                                > > >event as
                                                > > > > a test run for the site.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > --j
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >Aaron Miedema
                                                > > >Lente autem non celer sum.
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                >
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