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Re: ealdormere-rapier Rules Version 4

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  • John Wyatt
    Greetings! ... Yes, they may play in Melees with adults. ... Yes. Remember, the person that determines if the contact was a parry or if it was a smack/shove
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 3, 2007
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      Greetings!

      > Minors may now play in Melee' = yes .

      Yes, they may play in Melees with adults.

      > Parrying your opponent with your hand (or other safe
      > body contact ) is now allowed. ( I did not see it in
      > version 4 ). = yes

      Yes. Remember, the person that determines if the
      contact was a parry or if it was a smack/shove is the
      person being contacted -- just like the person that
      determines if a hit was outside acceptable calibration
      is the person being hit.

      > Question:
      >
      > I am in a tournament and facing someone with a
      > longer blade. ( This is all they have ) . I do not
      > wish to fence them . How is this scored ?

      As others have said, you do not have to fence them. I
      understand that in the past this has been scored as a
      loss for you... even in a single elinimation
      tournament. The final answer though: Talk to the
      MiC, it's their call. Just ask them before the
      tournament so they're ready if the situation comes up!

      > True or false
      > When we present someone for for an authorization: We
      > really should not discuss the candidate with the
      > other marshal.

      No rules on this as it's been said. My suggestion on
      this subject is two fold: First, if you have a
      concern that is related to safety, and thereby the
      safety of the Marshals doing the authorization than
      tell them. Sure this is unlikely, but I'm speaking to
      non-marshals as well. Combatants that may know
      someone from a practice that is trying to authorize at
      an event in which your Group Marshal is not present
      should say something if they think something unsafe is
      about to happen. The Marshals may still decide to
      proceed with the Authorization, but at least they are
      forewarned and take steps to limit their exposure to
      unsafe situations or end the Authorization altogether.
      Second, if you're a Marshal and you've been asked if
      the person is ready, and you don't have any concerns
      for the safety of the Authorizing Marshals, just give
      them a "yes" or "no" answer followed by: "I think
      [person's name] is safe." or "I think [person's name]
      is unsafe.".


      > What to do.
      > Your nose itches like crazy and your in the midst of
      > fencing.
      Call hold, or stop toying with me and just kill me.

      > A flying insect is buzzing around inside your mask.
      Convince your opponent that the bug behind her/him
      that is going to eat them is bigger than both of you
      combined.

      > Salty sweat is pouring into your eye.
      What I can't say as KRM: Curse quietly and use the
      force.
      What I say as KRM: Call hold.

      > Almost everyone is way younger than you are !!
      Ahhhh... well, is it you can't teach an old dog new
      tricks, or is the old dog teaching you a trick? Be
      crafty. :>

      >
      > ** Kill me at Clancy Day ** Don't forget this will
      > be " Midrealm Rules " !!

      Wish I could, but packing for the move at the end of
      April to my new house. :<

      Have fun!

      Mateo




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    • Aaron Gormanshaw
      ***There is nothing in the rules designating what a standard length blade is.*** If for any reason you do not want to fence your opponent, you have the right
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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        ***There is nothing in the rules designating what a standard length blade
        is.***

        If for any reason you do not want to fence your opponent, you have the
        right to yield the bout and not fence it.



        I am uncomfortable with the answer below which seems to say that if you have
        the agreement of the MiC, you can take a 35" blade onto the field in a
        tournament and refuse to fight anyone who brings a longer blade, which means
        that you win the bouts in the tournament without having to fight them.



        Let's rephrase the question:

        I am in a tournament and facing someone with a shorter blade. (That is all
        they have). I do not wish to fence them. How is this scored?



        As per below, with the agreement of the MiC, I can "not wish to fence" all
        of my opponents because they do not have a blade to match my length and thus
        I can win the bouts in the tournament without fighting if all my opponents
        bring short blades.



        Let's rephrase the question:

        I am in a tournament and facing someone without a swept hilt (using a saber
        guard). (That is all they have). I do not wish to fence them. How is this
        scored?



        As per below, with the agreement of the MiC, I can "not wish to fence" any
        of my opponents who do not have a period hilt.



        You can see how ridiculous this can easily become.



        If you do not want to fence someone, then yield.



        I personally use a blade longer than 35", and that is what I train with and
        what I am comfortable with. Why should I have to use a shorter blade which
        will mess up my style and training? Obviously, it would be to your
        strategic advantage to have your opponent use a blade shorter than they
        train with. I think that this would be abusing the system.





        Hoskuld







        > I am in a tournament and facing someone with a
        > longer blade. ( This is all they have ) . I do not
        > wish to fence them . How is this scored ?

        As others have said, you do not have to fence them. I
        understand that in the past this has been scored as a
        loss for you... even in a single elinimation
        tournament. The final answer though: Talk to the
        MiC, it's their call. Just ask them before the
        tournament so they're ready if the situation comes up!

        Mateo



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kelly Wyatt
        There are people that I m not comfortable fighting. I simply choose not to fight them. I realize that if I choose not to fight someone, I m conceding the
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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          There are people that I'm not comfortable fighting. I simply choose not to
          fight them. I realize that if I choose not to fight someone, I'm conceding
          the fight. Therefore the choice before me is always to take a loss or fight
          the fight. Sometimes the balance swings one way or the other. However, I
          wouldn't think that if you CHOOSE not to fight the fight; for any reason;
          you should ever be able to default that to a win. It just doesn't sound
          chivalrous to me at all.

          Cainder
          is anyone else only getting SOME of these messages...I'm missing a lot of
          original postings and only seem to be getting some secondary or tertiary
          replies.
          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
          MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
          SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
          Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
          Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and sable, two sprigs of witch
          hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.
        • John Wyatt
          ... which will die at some unknown point, and is not being managed. I transferred to the current e-list as I thought the thread had merrit. In answer to
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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            :> The original posting started on the old e-list
            which will die at some unknown point, and is not being
            managed. I transferred to the current e-list as I
            thought the thread had merrit.

            In answer to Hoskald's comments, I agree that what I
            said could take us down the road of silliness if the
            MiC and the Combatants allow it. Here's my concern
            though:

            On the one hand, if we say conceding the bout leads to
            a loss all the time, we are giving someone a moment of
            doubt as to whether they should walk away from what
            they perceive as an unsafe situation. Perhaps it's
            not a very big moment of doubt, but when the
            adrenaline's up and competitiveness is at it's
            height, the smallest thing could tip the scales and
            things could turn bad.

            The flip side of this was well put by Hoskald.

            So... what do we do? I say it's the MiC that has
            pervue in this decision at each given instance. The
            reason: she/he is the person directly responsible for
            the safety of all combatants on the List. It's up to
            them to:
            a) Determine if this is a personal issue between two
            people or whether it is a problem for other Combatants
            as well?
            b) What is the best way to handle this situation that
            is fair to ALL? Not just these two combatants. If
            you read this email thread you have a sense of what
            the general Rapier populace thinks on this topic, and
            I suggest you keep it in mind, but you have to make
            the call on the field. Keep safety paramount in your
            mind and I'll back you on whatever call you make.

            Now talking to the MiC for the given tournament AS
            EARLY AS POSSIBLE if you have an issue fighting
            someone IS KEY! Gives them more time to make
            arrangments in the tournament that can be fair to
            everyone. If you wait until you're called to the
            List, you've tied the MiC's hands on what she/he can
            do.

            In Service,

            Mateo de Merida





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          • Aaron Gormanshaw
            ... Gerard, was this a safety question? I did not perceive it as such, so I may have headed off on a wrong tangent. If not a safety question, what is the
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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              > I am in a tournament and facing someone with a
              > longer blade. ( This is all they have ) . I do not
              > wish to fence them . How is this scored ?



              Gerard, was this a safety question? I did not perceive it as such, so I may
              have headed off on a wrong tangent. If not a safety question, what is the
              reason for this you not wishing to fence them?



              Hoskuld





              On the one hand, if we say conceding the bout leads to
              a loss all the time, we are giving someone a moment of
              doubt as to whether they should walk away from what
              they perceive as an unsafe situation. Perhaps it's
              not a very big moment of doubt, but when the
              adrenaline's up and competitiveness is at it's
              height, the smallest thing could tip the scales and
              things could turn bad.

              The flip side of this was well put by Hoskald.

              So... what do we do? I say it's the MiC that has
              pervue in this decision at each given instance. The
              reason: she/he is the person directly responsible for
              the safety of all combatants on the List. It's up to
              them to:
              a) Determine if this is a personal issue between two
              people or whether it is a problem for other Combatants
              as well?
              b) What is the best way to handle this situation that
              is fair to ALL? Not just these two combatants. If
              you read this email thread you have a sense of what
              the general Rapier populace thinks on this topic, and
              I suggest you keep it in mind, but you have to make
              the call on the field. Keep safety paramount in your
              mind and I'll back you on whatever call you make.

              Now talking to the MiC for the given tournament AS
              EARLY AS POSSIBLE if you have an issue fighting
              someone IS KEY! Gives them more time to make
              arrangments in the tournament that can be fair to
              everyone. If you wait until you're called to the
              List, you've tied the MiC's hands on what she/he can
              do.

              In Service,

              Mateo de Merida_._,___



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerrard
              Actually I am asking on behalf of someone else. So I m not 100% certain. I believe they were more interested in the scoring. Gerrard ... From: Aaron
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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                Actually I am asking on behalf of someone else. So I'm not 100% certain.
                I believe they were more interested in the scoring.
                Gerrard
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Aaron Gormanshaw
                To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 1:06 PM
                Subject: RE: [E_Rapier] Re: ealdormere-rapier Rules Version 4


                > I am in a tournament and facing someone with a
                > longer blade. ( This is all they have ) . I do not
                > wish to fence them . How is this scored ?

                Gerard, was this a safety question? I did not perceive it as such, so I may
                have headed off on a wrong tangent. If not a safety question, what is the
                reason for this you not wishing to fence them?

                Hoskuld

                On the one hand, if we say conceding the bout leads to
                a loss all the time, we are giving someone a moment of
                doubt as to whether they should walk away from what
                they perceive as an unsafe situation. Perhaps it's
                not a very big moment of doubt, but when the
                adrenaline's up and competitiveness is at it's
                height, the smallest thing could tip the scales and
                things could turn bad.

                The flip side of this was well put by Hoskald.

                So... what do we do? I say it's the MiC that has
                pervue in this decision at each given instance. The
                reason: she/he is the person directly responsible for
                the safety of all combatants on the List. It's up to
                them to:
                a) Determine if this is a personal issue between two
                people or whether it is a problem for other Combatants
                as well?
                b) What is the best way to handle this situation that
                is fair to ALL? Not just these two combatants. If
                you read this email thread you have a sense of what
                the general Rapier populace thinks on this topic, and
                I suggest you keep it in mind, but you have to make
                the call on the field. Keep safety paramount in your
                mind and I'll back you on whatever call you make.

                Now talking to the MiC for the given tournament AS
                EARLY AS POSSIBLE if you have an issue fighting
                someone IS KEY! Gives them more time to make
                arrangments in the tournament that can be fair to
                everyone. If you wait until you're called to the
                List, you've tied the MiC's hands on what she/he can
                do.

                In Service,

                Mateo de Merida_._,___

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John Enzinas
                ... I agree that this is a potential situation so, given that you have said this is the responsibility of the MiC I d like to know under what circumstance you
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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                  On 4/4/07, John Wyatt <jwyatt2@...> wrote:
                  > On the one hand, if we say conceding the bout leads to
                  > a loss all the time, we are giving someone a moment of
                  > doubt as to whether they should walk away from what
                  > they perceive as an unsafe situation. Perhaps it's
                  > not a very big moment of doubt, but when the
                  > adrenaline's up and competitiveness is at it's
                  > height, the smallest thing could tip the scales and
                  > things could turn bad.

                  I agree that this is a potential situation so, given that you have
                  said this is the responsibility of the MiC I'd like to know under what
                  circumstance you would allow THL Pointjock to refuse to fight an THL
                  Wireweenie and not lose the bout and also not require THL Wireweenie
                  to retire from the field as being unsafe for anyone else to fence.

                  I must admit that I cannot think of a circumstance where I would do that.

                  --j/g
                • Gerrard
                  Most blades are standard length and longer... 98.8% of the time the blades are the same length. I am asking on behalf of someone else. Gerrard ... From:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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                    Most blades are standard length and longer... 98.8% of the time the blades are the same length. I am asking on behalf of someone else.
                    Gerrard

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Aaron Gormanshaw
                    To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 10:12 AM
                    Subject: RE: [E_Rapier] Re: ealdormere-rapier Rules Version 4


                    ***There is nothing in the rules designating what a standard length blade
                    is.***

                    If for any reason you do not want to fence your opponent, you have the
                    right to yield the bout and not fence it.

                    I am uncomfortable with the answer below which seems to say that if you have
                    the agreement of the MiC, you can take a 35" blade onto the field in a
                    tournament and refuse to fight anyone who brings a longer blade, which means
                    that you win the bouts in the tournament without having to fight them.

                    Let's rephrase the question:

                    I am in a tournament and facing someone with a shorter blade. (That is all
                    they have). I do not wish to fence them. How is this scored?

                    As per below, with the agreement of the MiC, I can "not wish to fence" all
                    of my opponents because they do not have a blade to match my length and thus
                    I can win the bouts in the tournament without fighting if all my opponents
                    bring short blades.

                    Let's rephrase the question:

                    I am in a tournament and facing someone without a swept hilt (using a saber
                    guard). (That is all they have). I do not wish to fence them. How is this
                    scored?

                    As per below, with the agreement of the MiC, I can "not wish to fence" any
                    of my opponents who do not have a period hilt.

                    You can see how ridiculous this can easily become.

                    If you do not want to fence someone, then yield.

                    I personally use a blade longer than 35", and that is what I train with and
                    what I am comfortable with. Why should I have to use a shorter blade which
                    will mess up my style and training? Obviously, it would be to your
                    strategic advantage to have your opponent use a blade shorter than they
                    train with. I think that this would be abusing the system.

                    Hoskuld

                    > I am in a tournament and facing someone with a
                    > longer blade. ( This is all they have ) . I do not
                    > wish to fence them . How is this scored ?

                    As others have said, you do not have to fence them. I
                    understand that in the past this has been scored as a
                    loss for you... even in a single elinimation
                    tournament. The final answer though: Talk to the
                    MiC, it's their call. Just ask them before the
                    tournament so they're ready if the situation comes up!

                    Mateo

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Kelly Wyatt
                    I would have to agree with you on that. It s putting the MiC in a terrible position and I really can t conceive of being able to bring myself to do that. It
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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                      I would have to agree with you on that. It's putting the MiC in a terrible
                      position and I really can't conceive of being able to bring myself to do
                      that. It would seem to make a mountain out of a molehill.

                      If I choose not to fight someone, assuming that the reason is NOT one
                      pertaining to the potential safety of others on the field, I would reserve
                      the right to keep my reasons as personal and not have to tell anyone I don't
                      wish to know. I wouldn't want to risk damaging anyone's ego or potentially,
                      reputation. A simple "I concede." should be all that's necessary.

                      Needless to say, if I felt that ANYONE else's safety were in question, I
                      would not hesitate to call it to the MiC's attention.

                      This is a very sticky soup indeed.

                      Cainder

                      @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                      MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
                      SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
                      Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
                      @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                      Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and sable, two sprigs of witch
                      hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.





                      >From: "John Enzinas" <jenzinas@...>
                      >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Re: ealdormere-rapier Rules Version 4
                      >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:22:58 -0400
                      >
                      >On 4/4/07, John Wyatt <jwyatt2@...> wrote:
                      > > On the one hand, if we say conceding the bout leads to
                      > > a loss all the time, we are giving someone a moment of
                      > > doubt as to whether they should walk away from what
                      > > they perceive as an unsafe situation. Perhaps it's
                      > > not a very big moment of doubt, but when the
                      > > adrenaline's up and competitiveness is at it's
                      > > height, the smallest thing could tip the scales and
                      > > things could turn bad.
                      >
                      >I agree that this is a potential situation so, given that you have
                      >said this is the responsibility of the MiC I'd like to know under what
                      >circumstance you would allow THL Pointjock to refuse to fight an THL
                      >Wireweenie and not lose the bout and also not require THL Wireweenie
                      >to retire from the field as being unsafe for anyone else to fence.
                      >
                      >I must admit that I cannot think of a circumstance where I would do that.
                      >
                      >--j/g
                    • Bob Roberts
                      What exactly is the issue? Is it that a sword is longer than the other? How about if a fencer with realy short arms has to fence someone with really long arms?
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 4, 2007
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                        What exactly is the issue? Is it that a sword is
                        longer than the other? How about if a fencer with
                        realy short arms has to fence someone with really long
                        arms? Do they automatically win? Is not everyone who
                        fences at a tournament authorized? Has not the sfety
                        issue already been decided previously? Has not the
                        kingdom already decided that x blade length is
                        allowed? I know that I have been hit hard by both
                        short blades and long blades. It is not the blade that
                        hits hard, it is the fencer. By the way, were there
                        not swords of differing legnth way back then as well?
                        If you went to a duel and faced an opponent with a
                        longer sword, could you say that you did not want to
                        fight and yet still "win"? Back to what I wrote above,
                        if the kingdom has decided that a blade is acceptable
                        and that a fencer is authorized then where is the
                        problem? Could it lay in a fencer who is unsure of
                        themselves and is scared? Should they actually remain
                        authorized since they are not ready to fence
                        psychologicaly and in fact pose a danger to the fencer
                        with the longer sword?
                        There is accomodation for limitations and then there
                        is just plain sillyness.

                        --- Kelly Wyatt <kgarlow@...> wrote:

                        > I would have to agree with you on that. It's
                        > putting the MiC in a terrible
                        > position and I really can't conceive of being able
                        > to bring myself to do
                        > that. It would seem to make a mountain out of a
                        > molehill.
                        >
                        > If I choose not to fight someone, assuming that the
                        > reason is NOT one
                        > pertaining to the potential safety of others on the
                        > field, I would reserve
                        > the right to keep my reasons as personal and not
                        > have to tell anyone I don't
                        > wish to know. I wouldn't want to risk damaging
                        > anyone's ego or potentially,
                        > reputation. A simple "I concede." should be all
                        > that's necessary.
                        >
                        > Needless to say, if I felt that ANYONE else's safety
                        > were in question, I
                        > would not hesitate to call it to the MiC's
                        > attention.
                        >
                        > This is a very sticky soup indeed.
                        >
                        > Cainder
                        >
                        > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                        > MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
                        > SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
                        > Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
                        > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                        > Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and
                        > sable, two sprigs of witch
                        > hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >From: "John Enzinas" <jenzinas@...>
                        > >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                        > >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                        > >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Re: ealdormere-rapier Rules
                        > Version 4
                        > >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 13:22:58 -0400
                        > >
                        > >On 4/4/07, John Wyatt <jwyatt2@...> wrote:
                        > > > On the one hand, if we say conceding the bout
                        > leads to
                        > > > a loss all the time, we are giving someone a
                        > moment of
                        > > > doubt as to whether they should walk away from
                        > what
                        > > > they perceive as an unsafe situation. Perhaps
                        > it's
                        > > > not a very big moment of doubt, but when the
                        > > > adrenaline's up and competitiveness is at it's
                        > > > height, the smallest thing could tip the scales
                        > and
                        > > > things could turn bad.
                        > >
                        > >I agree that this is a potential situation so,
                        > given that you have
                        > >said this is the responsibility of the MiC I'd like
                        > to know under what
                        > >circumstance you would allow THL Pointjock to
                        > refuse to fight an THL
                        > >Wireweenie and not lose the bout and also not
                        > require THL Wireweenie
                        > >to retire from the field as being unsafe for anyone
                        > else to fence.
                        > >
                        > >I must admit that I cannot think of a circumstance
                        > where I would do that.
                        > >
                        > >--j/g
                        >
                        >
                        >




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                      • Kelly Wyatt
                        The original question posed to the list (not by me) was regarding if a fencer with a shorter blade chooses to yield a tournament fight to a fencer with a
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 5, 2007
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                          The original question posed to the list (not by me) was regarding if a
                          fencer with a shorter blade chooses to yield a tournament fight to a fencer
                          with a longer blade, does he/she lose the bout.

                          I believe that it's been determined that it's ultimately up to the MiC to
                          make that decision.

                          I agree that blade length alone is not enough reason to yield a fight. In my
                          opinion it's certainly not enough to grant anything other than a loss. On
                          it's own, that is.

                          I'm sorry if I got things muddled. I still choose to reserve my right to not
                          voice my reasons for yielding if it's anything other than a safety issue.
                          What is silliness to you may not be at all to someone else. A gentleman
                          shouldn't make assumptions.


                          Cainder

                          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                          MKA - Kelly Wyatt kgarlow@...
                          SCA -Bantiarna Cainder ingen hui Chatharnaig
                          Seeblatt Herald, Kingdom of Ealdormere
                          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
                          Justus, Fortis, Patiens - Per chevron argent and sable, two sprigs of witch
                          hazel and a snowy owl counterchanged.





                          >From: Bob Roberts <maskkasm@...>
                          >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                          >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Re: ealdormere-rapier Rules Version 4
                          >Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 14:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
                          >
                          >What exactly is the issue? Is it that a sword is
                          >longer than the other? How about if a fencer with
                          >realy short arms has to fence someone with really long
                          >arms? Do they automatically win? Is not everyone who
                          >fences at a tournament authorized? Has not the sfety
                          >issue already been decided previously? Has not the
                          >kingdom already decided that x blade length is
                          >allowed? I know that I have been hit hard by both
                          >short blades and long blades. It is not the blade that
                          >hits hard, it is the fencer. By the way, were there
                          >not swords of differing legnth way back then as well?
                          >If you went to a duel and faced an opponent with a
                          >longer sword, could you say that you did not want to
                          >fight and yet still "win"? Back to what I wrote above,
                          >if the kingdom has decided that a blade is acceptable
                          >and that a fencer is authorized then where is the
                          >problem? Could it lay in a fencer who is unsure of
                          >themselves and is scared? Should they actually remain
                          >authorized since they are not ready to fence
                          >psychologicaly and in fact pose a danger to the fencer
                          >with the longer sword?
                          >There is accomodation for limitations and then there
                          >is just plain sillyness.
                          >
                        • John Enzinas
                          ... What would be a reason to allow someone to yield a bout without loosing and still allow their opponent to continue in the tournament? --j
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 5, 2007
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                            On 4/5/07, Kelly Wyatt <kgarlow@...> wrote:
                            > The original question posed to the list (not by me) was regarding if a
                            > fencer with a shorter blade chooses to yield a tournament fight to a fencer
                            > with a longer blade, does he/she lose the bout.
                            >
                            > I believe that it's been determined that it's ultimately up to the MiC to
                            > make that decision.

                            What would be a reason to allow someone to yield a bout without
                            loosing and still allow their opponent to continue in the tournament?

                            --j
                          • Kelly Wyatt
                            ... Honestly, I can t think of ANY reason that fits those parameters. I will let it roll around a bit and see if I can think of something. Cainder
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 5, 2007
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                              >From: "John Enzinas" <jenzinas@...>
                              >Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                              >To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                              >Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Re: ealdormere-rapier Rules Version 4
                              >Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:37:04 -0400
                              >
                              >On 4/5/07, Kelly Wyatt <kgarlow@...> wrote:
                              > > The original question posed to the list (not by me) was regarding if a
                              > > fencer with a shorter blade chooses to yield a tournament fight to a
                              >fencer
                              > > with a longer blade, does he/she lose the bout.
                              > >
                              > > I believe that it's been determined that it's ultimately up to the MiC
                              >to
                              > > make that decision.
                              >
                              >What would be a reason to allow someone to yield a bout without
                              >loosing and still allow their opponent to continue in the tournament?
                              >
                              >--j

                              Honestly, I can't think of ANY reason that fits those parameters. I will let
                              it roll around a bit and see if I can think of something.

                              Cainder
                            • Nicholas J. Corkigian
                              Is it just a matter of boycotting longer blades out of a personal preference (or displeasure)? If so, then I would say that s a personal choice to make that
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 5, 2007
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                                Is it just a matter of boycotting longer blades out of a personal
                                preference (or displeasure)? If so, then I would say that's a personal
                                choice to make that has no bearing on the actual rules. The penalties
                                should go with it. In this case, it's a choice to not fence an
                                opponent, therefore it's a choice to take the loss.

                                -Nikolai


                                >
                                >
                                > > > The original question posed to the list (not by me) was regarding if a
                                > > > fencer with a shorter blade chooses to yield a tournament fight to a
                                > >fencer
                                > > > with a longer blade, does he/she lose the bout.
                                > > >
                                > > > I believe that it's been determined that it's ultimately up to the
                                > MiC
                                > >to
                                > > > make that decision.
                                > >
                                > >What would be a reason to allow someone to yield a bout without
                                > >loosing and still allow their opponent to continue in the tournament?
                                > >
                                > >--j
                                >
                                > Honestly, I can't think of ANY reason that fits those parameters. I
                                > will let
                                > it roll around a bit and see if I can think of something.
                                >
                                > Cainder
                                >
                                >


                                --
                                -Nicholas J. Corkigian

                                "Sacred cows make the best burgers"
                                -Robert Kriegel



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                              • Ross Weaver
                                ... Yeilding to an opponent is to give them the win. If my opponent legs me and I choose to yeild rather than fight from my knees I m offering them the win,
                                Message 15 of 15 , Apr 5, 2007
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                                  On 4/5/07, Kelly Wyatt <kgarlow@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The original question posed to the list (not by me) was regarding if a
                                  > fencer with a shorter blade chooses to yield a tournament fight to a
                                  > fencer
                                  > with a longer blade, does he/she lose the bout.
                                  >





                                  Yeilding to an opponent is to give them the win. If my opponent legs me
                                  and I choose to yeild rather than fight from my knees I'm offering them the
                                  win, rather than to keep fighting. It does not matter why you yeild,
                                  choosing to yeild is choosing to lose.

                                  To refuse to fence some due to safety is a different issue. If someone is
                                  unsafe they should be removed from the field. If equipment is unsafe it
                                  should be removed from the field. But that is obviously not the question
                                  here.

                                  ~Wilhelm


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