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Still more from the moot

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  • John Enzinas
    Forwarded Conversation Subject: [schermo] THANKS! ... From: Greg Hounsell Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 13 6:02 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Forwarded Conversation
      Subject: [schermo] THANKS!
      ------------------------

      From: Greg Hounsell <rapierguy@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, Dec 5, 2005 at 3:47 PM

      Good Monday to all!

      I'd like to thank everyone that came out and helped make the 1st Moot,
      I think, a very successful one! I went well and smoothly and from what
      I could see, fun was had by all!

      once again, congratulations to the prise winners and a grateful thank-
      you to the instructors of the 3 classes. I hope we can have more in the
      future.

      recoveringly
      Rhys
      your-ever-so-humble-moot-au-crat










      Yahoo! Groups Links




      --------
      From: Eve Harris & David Stamper <evedave1@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, Dec 5, 2005 at 5:00 PM

      Greetings!

      My thanks to the event organizers for a lovely time, a pile of fun, and some
      interesting classes. It was a great event, and it is always fun to play with
      people I don't get to play with that often.

      My apologies for having to leave so abruptly, but my ride showed up earlier
      than I expected and I didn't want to keep him waiting as he was doing me the
      great service of looking after my son while I was attending the event.

      Was there a moot? What topics were discussed? What were the outcomes? I'm
      sure others who were not able to attend the moot part of the event would
      love to hear.

      Thank you to the event organizers for putting together a lovely day of
      fencing topped off with some very yummy food.

      Albrecht

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Greg Hounsell" <rapierguy@...>
      To: <schermo@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:47 PM
      Subject: [schermo] THANKS!


      > Good Monday to all!
      >
      > I'd like to thank everyone that came out and helped make the 1st Moot,
      > I think, a very successful one! I went well and smoothly and from what
      > I could see, fun was had by all!
      >
      > once again, congratulations to the prise winners and a grateful thank-
      > you to the instructors of the 3 classes. I hope we can have more in the
      > future.
      >
      > recoveringly
      > Rhys
      > your-ever-so-humble-moot-au-crat
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >



      ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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      [Quoted text hidden]
      --------
      From: Yvonne Rogers <tamlin_01@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, Dec 5, 2005 at 9:44 PM

      Albrecht! Wait for it! Wait for it!

      There was indeed a moot full of a lot of good, productive
      conversation.

      As for what was discussed. Wait for it!

      Archibald and Dame Helen ensured notes were taken and I'm sure
      minutes will be out soon.

      Jocelyn



      --- In schermo@yahoogroups.com, "Eve Harris & David Stamper"
      <evedave1@r...> wrote:
      >
      > Greetings!
      >
      > My thanks to the event organizers for a lovely time, a pile of
      fun, and some
      > interesting classes. It was a great event, and it is always fun to
      play with
      > people I don't get to play with that often.
      >
      > My apologies for having to leave so abruptly, but my ride showed
      up earlier
      > than I expected and I didn't want to keep him waiting as he was
      doing me the
      > great service of looking after my son while I was attending the
      event.
      >
      > Was there a moot? What topics were discussed? What were the
      outcomes? I'm
      > sure others who were not able to attend the moot part of the event
      would
      > love to hear.
      >
      > Thank you to the event organizers for putting together a lovely
      day of
      > fencing topped off with some very yummy food.
      >
      > Albrecht
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "Greg Hounsell" <rapierguy@h...>
      > To: <schermo@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:47 PM
      > Subject: [schermo] THANKS!
      >
      >
      > > Good Monday to all!
      > >
      > > I'd like to thank everyone that came out and helped make the 1st
      Moot,
      > > I think, a very successful one! I went well and smoothly and
      from what
      > > I could see, fun was had by all!
      > >
      > > once again, congratulations to the prise winners and a grateful
      thank-
      > > you to the instructors of the 3 classes. I hope we can have more
      in the
      > > future.
      > >
      > > recoveringly
      > > Rhys
      > > your-ever-so-humble-moot-au-crat
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >






      ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
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      [Quoted text hidden]
      --------
      From: Yvonne Rogers <tamlin_01@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, Dec 5, 2005 at 9:46 PM

      NO! NO dear good Autocrate. You have it backwards.
      It it you and your staff that are to be thanked. This was a
      wonderfull event and hopefully it will be repeated !

      Well Done!
      Jocelyne




      --- In schermo@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Hounsell" <rapierguy@h...>
      wrote:



      >
      > Good Monday to all!
      >
      > I'd like to thank everyone that came out and helped make the 1st
      Moot,
      > I think, a very successful one! I went well and smoothly and from
      what
      > I could see, fun was had by all!
      >
      > once again, congratulations to the prise winners and a grateful
      thank-
      > you to the instructors of the 3 classes. I hope we can have more
      in the
      > future.
      >
      > recoveringly
      > Rhys
      > your-ever-so-humble-moot-au-crat
      >







      ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
      DonorsChoose.org helps at-risk students succeed. Fund a student project today!
      http://us.click.yahoo.com/LeSULA/FpQLAA/E2hLAA/qkHolB/TM
      [Quoted text hidden]
      --------
      From: argh@... <argh@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, Dec 5, 2005 at 10:15 PM

      And here they are.... I want feedback and to hear if people are
      upset, or whatever about what was discussed....

      None of this is legislation..... yet.....

      Above all this is not the exact words spoken merely the gist of the
      conversation. Many thanks to Dame Helen for her
      assistance.

      Ealdromere Academy of Defence
      December 3, 2005 Moot

      In Attendance:
      Archibald, Rhys, Lucia, Giovanni, Issac, Nathaniel, Edward,
      Christobel W., Wilhelm, Christobel, Menken, Rusalka,
      Jocelyn, Helen (taking Minutes)

      Agenda:
      1) Peerless Prizes
      2) Research projects
      3) Another session (where and when)
      4) What to do about retired members?
      5) Removal or dismissal of members and invalid prizes
      6) Skipping prize levels
      7) What happens when there are no peers at a particular prize fight?
      8) Sponsors of EAOD events: shall there be a bank account, how to
      hold funds
      9) Who makes scarves for Prizors?


      1) Peerless prizes- in particular the Provost level
      Giovanni: When in Pennsylania, there was someone wanting to play a
      prize fight to a level that was not available in his
      home group (Maine), so the assembled masters at this confirence fought
      them. Could we not assemble masters (or persons
      felt to be at the provost level), from other areas, and fight Provost
      prizes against them until we had sufficent
      Provosts of our own?
      Rusalka: This is an Ealdormerian acadamy, why should we bring in
      people from outside, they may not share the same
      thoughts, ambitions. Why not use Free scholars of our own.
      Alan: What happened at the beginning of the EAOD, there was a time
      with there were no levels?
      Christobel W: When EAOD started, people decided for themselves what
      rank they should start at, and it was mutually
      agreed.
      Archibald: When in doubt, the charter says the EAOD is based on the
      London Masters, so we should use their rules for
      this situation. They are:
      1) Royal appointment- but this is not relivant for us.
      2) Agreement of the 4 "Ancient Masters" (our equivilent is
      Archibald and Hosguld as Proctor and Preceptor)
      3) Excessive challenges- a whole day of bouts fought by the prizors
      So in our case, the prizors would play against their own rank/level
      Christobel W: Perhaps just against those who had published as being
      trying for the next rank up
      Archibald: Perhaps then, Provost prizors should fight against any
      Free Scholar who have done the projects to become
      Provost- but perhaps they should win 50% of these bouts, instead of
      the usual 30%.
      Christobel: Are these prozors to be specialized in one style only?
      Or more than one?
      Archibald: Provosts require one specialty, the Deans require more than one.
      Jocelyn: How many Provosts do we do this 'special way'? 3? 5?
      Christabel W: 3 would be her preferance- there will not provost prizes
      happening so often that three could not plan to
      be somewhere.
      Wilhelm: There are 3 Free scholars on the cusp of going to Provost,
      Archibald, Giovanni and Albrect, they should just
      fight each other.

      Result of discussion:
      These two options will be presented and discussed on the Squermo list:
      1) Prizor shall fight against all the Free Scholors, and must win 50%
      2) Candidate fights against those hoping to become Provosts, and
      who have completed their projects.


      2)Research projects

      Jocelyn: We must set down the level of expectation: Albrect's
      project on hilts is excessive!
      Archibald: So was my translation of Giganti- so let us set some
      minimum limits for projects.
      Wilhelm: Cerdic (the only provost, now retired) did a class on
      Degrassi, it was a technique class only
      Archibald: Certainly teaching is a good demonstration of knowledge
      Christabel W.: Recorded evidence should be left eg: Handouts, class
      notes, photos, video, an item you might have made.
      Cerdic left no evidence, we cannot continue to learn from him.
      Rusalka: This is a good idea- if classes are adequate as a project, we
      should video record them
      Rhys- We must have clearly published minimum standards, that build the
      dean level above the provost level
      Wilhelm: Documentation of research is important to these projects.
      These projects are meant to further the knowledge
      of rapier in our period, but our sources of knowledge are often
      translations of period materials and all translations
      inherently have a bias.
      Issac: How long should a class be for it to be considared enough?
      Edward: Is video recording to be Required?
      Archibald: No, this is just one option. About interpretation of
      translations: there are usually ways to
      intellectually argue points of translation, and this could be interesting.
      Nathaneil: Will we outgrow the Squermo Site? All projects/evidence
      should be avaliable there to avoid unintentional
      plagarism. Who will have to be at the classes- who will judge if the
      class is done well? End of class surveys?
      Rhys: The site has 15 G of space, and documents can be compressed,
      not to worry.
      Christobel: A Set of rubrics should be established for each level
      Christabel W.: The Proctor exists to prevent groups of peers
      'judging' each other
      Nathaniel: What if proctor does not like a particular project/topic?
      Christobel W.: Informal surveys done by the proctor are ok, but
      written ones that cause the judgement to fall to the
      peers are not.
      Jocelyn: What is to be done about persons with Learning Disabilities
      Christobel W.: As a dyslexic, reading is hard, but there is a wide
      range of project possiblities. On a case by case
      basis, perhaps the rules can flex.
      Wilhelm: One way around reading would be to make an artifact from
      pictures of period examples eg, an arming doublet
      made as they would have made it, not the SCA way. Perhaps we should
      expand the research criteria: SCA has decided
      that "historical combat" covers everything that is not strictly Rapier
      or Armoured combat, and will be judged under
      the category of Arts and Science. How about a project on Unarmed
      combet: Would this be accecpable?
      Archibald- yes, this should be OK, but we are the SCA fencing
      community, SCA things perhaps should not be excluded as
      topics?
      Christabel W.: Historical should be the focus, and should remain in
      SCA period ie, pre 1600. There must be a line
      somewhere- thought this might exclude Archibald's Giganti translation.
      Archibald: Published in 1606, Giganti is very useful to the SCA
      fencer- some stretch must be acceptable
      Christobel- there can be a slippery slope to arguing this way, we must
      draw a line somewhere. Perhaps we can learn from
      the dancing community who must also walk this line.

      3) The next session
      Nathanial: suggests a 6 month frequency
      Jocelyn: What is 'one of these"? Moots, Prizes? Perhaps these
      should be combined with another event?
      Christabel W.: Expecting a dedicated event every 6 months is too
      much- once a year is more doable. And perhaps we
      could have a moot another, preexisting event.- perhaps a dinner at War
      practice/Trillium War
      Rhys: This event was simply an example of what could be done, others
      need not be the same
      Archibald: This was a sales pitch to get people to come out. By
      offering classes and prizes we tried to maximize
      reasons for people to attend.
      Jocelyn: Likes Christabel's idea of event and moot roughly 6 months apart
      Rusulka: When? Summer is good, and War practice is a good time.

      4)Retired EAOD members
      Nathaniel: Perhaps a piece of regalia with all the names of retired
      persons and their ranks stitched on
      Wilhelm- This might not work- many people pop in and out as their real
      lives allow (there is no reason that people who
      we now think are inactive/retired cant come back- look at Lars as an
      example) We should not remove people from the
      rolls of each level, but should acnowledge their 'resting' state
      Jocelyn: Perhaps those persons not continuing in the martial stream
      of things could become patrons, with a special
      stripe, indicating their last held Rank?
      Rusulka: Coming from a large household (Galbraith), people are not
      counted as 'inactive' until they say that they
      are no longer coming back to the SCA, we should not decide for them.
      Rhys: We should be trying to check in with people on the lists to
      discover their intentions, we should be proactive in
      this.
      Archibald: I have been doing this, and continuing to list people in precidence
      Christobel W.: We need a word to replace 'inactive" That indicates
      someone is unavailable to play prizes. Also,
      what should we do about persons who renounce their membership in anger
      or in calmness? What shall we do with them?
      Archibald: This brings up a good question: How does one Quit the EAOD?

      5) Removal of members
      Archibald gives a quick recap of the situation surrounding Kaelyn,
      which occurred at Trillium war last year:
      Kaelyn was allowed to fight his Scholar prize directly- skipping the
      cadet level.
      He seemed to be an able fencer, but was arrogant and difficult in the
      lists (Calling shots for others, unsavoury
      taunts). Also, he did not play his 15 minutes all in a row, he took 5
      minutes to recover from a particular shot.
      Is there a proceedure for striking him from the list of Scholars?
      Christobel W." Standards of courtesy and behaviour on the day of your
      prize must be adhered to. People should speak
      against bad behaviour when it happens.
      Wilhelm: He did not meet the endurance section, therefore he should
      not be included.
      Archibald: Is willing to strike him from the list, but he doesn't
      wish to be acting alone
      Rhys: Personality issues always will come up. Certainly we should
      try to be chivalrous, courteous on the lists, but
      who will judge? Where to draw the line
      Wilhelm: We should decide on a process for remoing members in case
      something should happen again.
      Jocelyn: Who judges behavour?
      Rusalka: Just like we do with unsafe fencers, we should report bad
      behaviour up the line, we should all watch each
      other.
      Christobel W.:Prizors should be stopped if there is outragious or rude
      behaviour.
      Jocelyn: She did not see the bad things that others did on that day,
      should that be reported too?
      Archibald: Has ended up writing a letter to himself on this- he
      reported it just before he got the job. He will start
      proceededing if a good percentage of the community agrees, he will
      move to remove him from the list.
      Jocelyn: But who is judging the behaviour?
      Christobel W.: The Preceptor? The Proctor? We don't want everyone
      spying on each other.
      Wilhelm: Perhaps we should wait for concrete concequences of bad
      behaviour eg stripped of a Peerage, an Office
      Archibald: Perhaps we should get letters of referance from acadamy
      members before allowing someone to play a prize?
      Rusalka: What if there is noone the prizor knows that is on the right
      level? What if they are in a small community?
      Christobel W.: Is this not similar to peer's judging one another?
      This is not the intention. Also, people can be
      fooled, Kaelyn was very polite on the telephone setting up the prize.

      6) Skipping of Prizes
      Archibald: Let us not allow any further skipping of prizes, that time
      has passed.
      Rusalka: What if some one very qualified (eg Don/Donna) comes in from
      somewhere else.
      Archibald: The one year wait time would also be eliminated, so they
      could move through the ranks quickly.
      Jocelyn: But then prize fights will take up the whoe fencing time at
      events- this should not happen, event marshals
      should have control
      Christobel W: This 'flooding' of prize fights could happen now if all
      persons who could fight a prize decide to do
      so.
      Nathaniel: Is it not insulting to have Don's play a cadet prize?
      Archibald: The Difference is this: a Don is made by the King, it is
      an award. The EAOD is ranked by their peers. If
      it is truly an issue for them, they could arrainge to play the prizes
      all in one day
      Christobel W.: Archibald's policy on this is not a law carved in
      stone, the Preceptor has a prerogative to choose
      policy with the consultation of high ranking members
      Rusulka: What if all the people move ahead- what if there are no
      peers left to fight against
      Archibald: A backlog at the event level should prevent this- there
      can still only be so many prizes fought at a given
      event.
      Rhys: Prize fights would become a 'feature'
      Christobel W.: If a Don is offended by not immediately being
      included, then perhaps they do not have the right attitude
      for the EAOD
      Jocelyn: If prize fights are limited by who publishes in advance of
      the event, this will limit things, so this is good.

      7) No peers to fight against at a given event
      Christobel W.: The prizor must advertise their intention to fight,
      and should solicit opponents. If they don't it is
      their tough luck.
      Jocelyn: Prizors must be responsible.
      Rhys: If we do pomp and circumstance for one another (personal
      invites etc) it will build enthusiasm and excitement
      around prizes
      Christobel W.: There is help availble, ask your fellow fencers for
      contacts in other localities.
      Archibald: Maintains Email groups of each level and sends out notes
      when things are upcoming.
      Edward: What if all the opponents move up to the next level and there
      is noone left to fight.
      Archibald: Then fight agains own level, but you must win 50% of bouts
      to advance a level
      Nathaniel: What about getting people of the appropriate level that
      are not part of the EAOD?
      Wilhelm: This is not the point, we should keep it in house. Perhaps
      a number of persons trying to move to the next
      level would fight each other.
      Christobel W.: We would be proactive in getting new fencers to join
      the EAOD, and fight their prizes, this keeps all
      the ranks full.
      Nathaniel: Perhaps there should be sponsors of a potential prizor to
      help them- like they do in the military for people
      new to base.
      Archibald: This needs to be a grass roots effort.

      8) Sponsors of events/ bank accounts
      Archibald: James (the Kingdom Exchequer) has said that it would be
      fine for the EAOD to have a bank account to hold
      profits from events we run. We would need an exchequer, preferably
      one who has experience.
      Wilhelm graciously agreees to hold this post
      Christobel W.: We can't host an event- it must be a geographical
      group that does that. But we could hold fundraisers
      (raffles, cooking a lunch for an event etc)
      Archibald: Perhaps this could be a fund for scarves, or perhaps (in
      time) to ensure that a smaller canton could hold an
      EAOD event (financial backing)
      Rhys: Event with a canton sponsoring, the profits can be shared (one
      takes the door, the other the feast profits). A
      Bank account would be useful for projects so that we don't need to ask
      many different groups for the profits from each
      event.

      9) Scarves
      Christobel W.; Traditionally, a person close to a prizor makes a scarf
      for the prizor. The last choise should be for
      the Preceptor to find one.
      Archibald: has started stockpiling scarves, just in case
      Cristobel W: Each person has their own style, and styles change, and
      large stockpiles should not be necessary since
      more prizors have a scarf given them by friends
      Archibald: True, but we should have a Western collection point for
      'just in case' scarves
      Christobel W.: Perhaps we could have the youngest member provide for
      the next member?
      Nathaniel: Perhaps scarves that have been 'grown out of" can be
      handed in for reuse.

      Meeting adjourned.


      ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
      DonorsChoose.org helps at-risk students succeed. Fund a student project today!
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      [Quoted text hidden]
      --------
      From: John Enzinas <jenzinas@...>
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, Dec 6, 2005 at 10:37 AM

      Two comments:

      On 12/5/05, argh@... <argh@...> wrote:
      > 1) Peerless prizes- in particular the Provost level
      > Giovanni: When in Pennsylania, there was someone wanting to play a prize fight to a
      > level that was not available in his home group (Maine), so the assembled masters at this
      > confirence fought them. Could we not assemble masters (or persons felt to be at the
      > provost level), from other areas, and fight Provost prizes against them until we had
      > sufficent Provosts of our own?

      The gentleman in question was starting his own school and wanted to
      establish his credibility amoung his peers and that was his reason for
      fighting a prize.


      > 2)Research projects

      For all intents and purposes this is (and IMO should be) an A&S
      project. Are there not guidelines for A&S?

      --g/j

      --------
      From: John Wyatt <jwyatt2@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, Dec 6, 2005 at 2:35 PM

      Though weather prevented me from attending the Event
      this past weekend (as it was I was unable to return
      home and spent the night at my parent's place -- St.
      Thomas got hit hard on Friday), I would like to make
      the following comments on the minutes if I may.


      >>
      > 1) Peerless prizes-
      > Result of discussion:
      > These two options will be presented and discussed on
      > the Squermo list:
      > 1) Prizor shall fight against all the Free Scholors,
      > and must win 50%
      > 2) Candidate fights against those hoping to become
      > Provosts, and who have completed their projects.

      I would have to say I would suggest #2, as the people
      that are at the cusp of becoming Provosts should be
      the deciding factors regardless of whether we take #1
      or #2. Even if the other prospective Canidates are
      not as skilled as some other Free Scholars (I don't
      believe this is the case, but I address this point
      nonetheless), they have achieved milestones that place
      them at the top of Rapier in our Kingdom. Successful
      completing the project is a step beyond that of Free
      Scholar, so we should recognize this. At present
      these people are the one at the highest possible
      "rank" in the Academy.

      > 2)Research projects

      In my opinion Archibald and Albrecht's work is akin to
      what I thought a Dean Project would be. Setting some
      clear guidelines are needed. The Dancers I agree
      would be a good place to look for guidance on what is
      acceptable with respect to lateness of period. I
      would also suggest discussing this topic with leading
      people in A&S and consider adapting their criteria for
      Entry Categories: Intermediate - Provost, Advanced -
      Dean. Just my suggestion.

      > 5) Removal of members

      I agree we need to be careful here on what we do here.
      We should have clear guidelines on removing someone.
      Alternatively, instead of removing someone we simply
      deny them the chance to advance in ranks. I think we
      should incorporate both of these ideas into a
      "3-strike" approach: first is a warning from the
      Preaceptor, second you are denied the chance to
      advance in ranks until you can provide three
      goodstanding members of the EAoD beyond the rank of
      Scholar to speak for you, third you are removed from
      the EAoD based on a vote from the Preaceptor, Proctor,
      and 3 other Members from the highest ranks of the
      EAoD. While this may be a long approach, we want to
      be careful that we have a clear justification to their
      Majesties anyone else for what we have done.

      With respect to Caillean (this is the proper spelling
      of his name) I would like to say the following:
      1) During his prize, I personally encouraged him to
      continue the Endurance Bout after the hard hit I
      placed. I felt responsible for the stop in the bout
      with my transgression. At the time, he was irritated
      that he was losing bouts and was reaching the limit of
      exhaustion (flushed, fidgity, deep breathing,
      irritable). I do not know if I had not placed the
      hard hit, whether he would have continued without
      stopping. The hard hit was delivered during a
      simultaneous attack between myself and Calliean.
      2) When Calliean moved back to An Tir (BC) this
      summer, I received an email from a local Marshal in An
      Tir looking for information on Calliean's Rapier
      Activity. Here is a letter I received from this
      Marshal in full. I apologize for the length, but I do
      not want any concerns over the possibility that I may
      have edited the email:

      "Greetings Lord Mateo

      Thank you for helping with this. It seems his
      fighters card over here
      has
      expired, so he'll have to re-auth anyway, but knowing
      how he's been
      fighting
      for the last six months will speed up the process.

      As for his titles or awards, aside from his rank in
      the Seventh Cav. (a
      merc
      group over here), he only has one.

      Last year (July 2004) Caliean became the Champion for
      the Stronghold of
      Rath
      An Oir. However he was removed from that in January
      for leaving
      without
      informing them, and not returning the regailia.

      Enjoy.

      -Tomas deCourcy
      "
      This gentle gave his full title as:

      Deputy Master of Blades
      Lionsdale

      I include this email for the members to review and
      make decisions as they see fit. I personally believe
      on this basis that Caillean does not meet the measure
      of someone I would allow to skip ranks.

      > 6) Skipping of Prizes

      Please, no more! Caillean's skipping of the rank of
      Cadet opened up a lot of bad feelings in my Shire,
      especially with 3 new Cadets. We have enough people
      now in ranks below Provost to handle any new prizes,
      and I believe we are taking the right step for Provost
      and Dean. With respect to Don's joining our Kingdom,
      let them fight the accelerated Fight Schedule, but no
      skipping of ranks. The White Scarf is a Grant Level
      Award, the same as our Thorbjorn's Hammer if you cut
      away the fact that the White Scarf is only given to
      Fencers -- the same skill and characteristics are
      needed to receive either. We don't make any special
      considerations for those whom have received
      Thorbjorn's Hammer, so we shouldn't provide these
      considerations to a Don. This should be enough of a
      reason for any Don of good character.


      Thank you all for allowing me the chance to speak my
      thoughts, please take them or leave them as you will,

      Senor Mateo de Merida
      Scholar of the Ealdormere Academy of Defence




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      From: Eve Harris & David Stamper <evedave1@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, Dec 6, 2005 at 5:41 PM

      Greetings!

      As I was not able to attend the Moot part of the event, I'd like to express
      my opinions on some of the issues discussed:

      Agenda:
      1) Peerless Prizes

      In this case I would have to go for option two, even though both prospects
      are daunting. Much of the cream of the fencers of Ealdormere are currently
      at the Free Scholar level, and any Prizes fought against pretty much any of
      the other current Free Scholars would be a challenge.

      2) Research projects

      I'm sorry if my Provost research project seems overboard. It's been sort of
      a snowball effect, a fairly simple project that continues to expand as more
      information is discovered. The purpose of the projects, to my mind, is to
      add to the body of knowledge of fencing, and demonstrate the candidate is
      something beyond just a good fencer. Here are the Kingdom A&S manuals
      definitions of Intermediate and Advanced:

      Intermediate
      Intermediates have assembled basic tools and have created more than one
      functional work. They will have a grip on at least one technique. Work is
      far more likely to be authentic as well as pretty. They probably are paying
      more attention to design and embellishment at this stage of development, not
      just making sure the lines are straight and the edges line up evenly. They
      may be doing reasonable documentation; however, good research and
      documentation may support beginner's craftsmanship.
      Documentation at this stage will be expected. This can be presented orally,
      but a page of written notes is recommended (particularly a bibliography).
      You can expect to be asked about:


      Time period the piece represents
      How it was made, performed etc.
      Why you made it, performed it etc.
      The place or the setting the article would have been found, used, performed
      etc.
      Materials used
      Bibliography

      Advanced
      Advanced workers have been producing work of this type for a while. They are
      known within our culture for what they do, probably with some cause. They
      have a well-rounded knowledge of a variety of styles, techniques and
      concepts (they may not practice all of them, but they know them and
      understand their relative merits). Their art may be prompting them to work
      with other local artisans (directly or as inspiration) to diversify and
      challenge themselves. An example would be a costumer searching out a weaver
      to create a specific type of cloth, unavailable otherwise, for a specific
      project. The work may not be pretty at all; in some cases it may be
      blatantly ugly or plain, but that doesn't mean it's not difficult to make,
      completely functional or utterly authentic. Pre-registration is required.
      Documentation at this stage is expected. Two pages with a bibliography
      should be sufficient. We will be looking for:


      Time period the piece represents
      How it was made, performed etc.
      Why you made it, performed it etc.
      An explanation of your choice of materials
      An explanation of why a certain style or combinations of styles were used.
      Place the article would have been found, used, performed etc.
      Why you made certain decisions
      Bibliography -- brief comments on the usefulness of the book would be
      wonderful
      All documentation can be in point form; it can be in any form that someone
      will find readable. Documentation provides a starting point for the judges.
      It will allow the judges to ask appropriate question pertaining to your
      entry. People who are making choices that relate to the culture of the SCA
      instead of the medieval culture need to explain their choices in their
      documentation. An example would be a Norse wooden chest with an Ealdormere
      Trillium on it. That heraldic symbol may not be authentic to the Norse
      culture but has relevance to our SCA Culture.

      It's hard to apply these criteria to pure research, which many of the EAOD
      projects will be, but they do give some idea of the mindset behind what is
      meant by "Intermediate" and "Advanced." Based on those criteria I suppose my
      project would fall under the Advanced category. I agree with Mateo that
      Intermediate=Provost and Advanced=Dean though I think it's perfectly ok to
      exceed requirements for a particular level. I agree that minimum guidelines
      should be set for each level. I'll give my thoughts on these guidelines in
      another post. Practical demonstrations of techniques and practical items are
      great and should be allowed but a level of documentation consistent with the
      A&S criteria should be provided.

      3) Another session (where and when)

      I think once a year is sufficient if it's to be a full event like the one
      last weekend, if it's just a moot than twice a year would be good. One thing
      that has been discussed on the other rapier lists in Ealdormere is a Rapier
      Collegium, and I think the EAOD event and the Collegium would be a good fit.
      Such Collegium's were held in the past and where very helpful.

      4) What to do about retired members?

      I don't think any member should be considered retired unless they explicitly
      let the Praeceptor know that that is their desire. People come and go from
      the SCA all the time, some never return, some come back in ten years. As
      Lady Rusalka noted, we shouldn't decide for them. The only hitch in this is
      the authorization requirement for each level. Perhaps they should be
      considered retired when their authorization lapses. If they return and
      reauthorize in the requisite forms than they could be considered as active
      again.

      5) Removal or dismissal of members and invalid prizes

      Well, a person should at least maintain the minimum requirements for their
      current level in the EAOD. See above for my comments on authorizations. If
      they renounce their mashallate, or don't maintain the required appearance
      than they should probably be considered retired. The Praeceptor should be
      the final arbiter for these decisions.

      6) Skipping prize levels

      This should not be done as it can be the cause of rancour amongst those who
      are passed over. Since our ranks are earned and not given as awards it's
      hard to work out the equivalency with other kingdom's rank structures.

      7) What happens when there are no peers at a particular prize fight?

      Well, the person will just have to try again at another event. I know when I
      do get around to my Provost Prize there will be plenty of notice to the
      Academy and to those who I hope will be participating in my Prize. The onus
      is on the Prizor to make sure the Prize happens. The EAOD can help
      facilitate this but it is ultimately the Prizor who has to get the warm
      bodies out to play their Prize with them.
      8) Sponsors of EAOD events: shall there be a bank account, how to hold funds

      I agree with what was agreed to at the Moot.

      9) Who makes scarves for Prizors?

      It is great if Prizors can provide their own scarves, but this is not always
      the case. I think there should be a reserve of scarves so that we can make
      sure that the Prizor gets something while they are at the event. To this
      end, THL Asa, in her role as a Patron of the EAOD is making a number of
      scarves for each rank to be kept by the Praceptor in case they are needed.
      The first two were presented to the Praeceptor at the Moot, and there a
      number of others cut out and just needing to be finished. I'll act as the
      Western collection point if that is ok with the Academy and I will make sure
      I have extra scarves with me when I attend an event where there will be
      Prizes.

      Just some thoughts.

      Albrecht




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      From: John Wyatt <jwyatt2@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, Dec 6, 2005 at 5:57 PM

      :> No need to apologize on the extent of your
      research! I for one am using it to help shape my
      period weapondry. Please don't stop on my account! I
      agree with your comments about the Provost & Dean
      projects and if someone exceeds the minimum -- so be
      it, it enriches us all.

      Mateo

      --- Eve Harris & David Stamper <evedave1@...>
      wrote:
      [Quoted text hidden]=== message truncated ===




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      From: nathanielcardiff <nathanielcardiff@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wed, Dec 7, 2005 at 10:23 PM

      I know I was there, but I have my own two pence to add to this after
      the fact and taking the time to think about things, y'know.

      4) Retired Members:
      Well, the piece of regalia I had in mind was not necessarily for
      retirements, but a persistant roll of EVERYONE who belonged to the
      EAOD, and when they became members. Say, "Nathaniel Cardiff, AS 39"
      type of thing. That way, anyone everyone who was a member in good
      standing will have a chance to be honored and remembered past
      retirement, and the same if taking a hyatus.

      6) Skipping of prizes:
      A lot of pretty skilled fencers are starting to join the EAOD at a
      Cadet level, and from that, new Cadets will have to train a lot
      harder to get in. That might restrict our membership, really, but it
      has a good flip side. It'll raise the bar for everyone else. Yes,
      taking, say, a Kingdom Rapier Champion or a well established Don and
      making them a cadet is a little offending, but in the end, they will
      be increasing hte skill levels of everyone else by setting the bar
      higher for everyone. And besides, if he is not willing to follow the
      rules of an organization he's trying to join, maybe that person is
      not quite the kind we would want...

      All right, that's all I can think of just now.

      N.C.
      [Quoted text hidden]
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      From: Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@...>
      Reply-To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      To: schermo@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Fri, Dec 9, 2005 at 3:29 PM

      Late comments:

      > Ealdromere Academy of Defence
      > December 3, 2005 Moot
      >
      > 1) Peerless prizes- in particular the Provost level
      > Result of discussion:
      > These two options will be presented and discussed on the Squermo list:
      > 1) Prizor shall fight against all the Free Scholors, and must win 50%
      > 2) Candidate fights against those hoping to become Provosts, and who have completed their projects.

      I prefer option 2.

      > 2)Research projects
      > Christabel W.: Recorded evidence should be left eg: Handouts, class notes, photos, video, an item you might have made.
      > Cerdic left no evidence, we cannot continue to learn from him.

      I agree 100%!

      > Rhys- We must have clearly published minimum standards, that build the dean level above the provost level

      I don't think we have enough experience in producing research projects
      to have clear guidelines, but we have a Proctor in place to judge
      research projects as acceptable or not.

      I think we should communicate in some way that the projects currently
      underway far exceed what is necessary.

      To my mind, the projects underway are like bachelor's degree theses, or
      even masters degree. I think a provost research project only needs to
      be closer to a grade 12 level work.

      > Archibald- yes, this should be OK, but we are the SCA fencing community, SCA things perhaps should not be excluded as
      > topics?

      I think anything relevant to rapier in the SCA period is fine, and the
      Proctor can determine if something is relevant or not.

      > 3) The next session
      > Nathanial: suggests a 6 month frequency

      For a couple of years we had a twice yearly "Ealdormere Rapier Practise"
      event, classes and a lot of free fighting, or whatever people wanted.
      The idea was to have one in the south and one in the north. I think
      that every 6 months became more effort than we had organizers for.
      Smaller gatherings at existing events would help that problem.

      > 5) Removal of members
      > Archibald gives a quick recap of the situation surrounding Kaelyn, which occurred at Trillium war last year:
      > Kaelyn was allowed to fight his Scholar prize directly- skipping the cadet level.
      > He seemed to be an able fencer, but was arrogant and difficult in the lists (Calling shots for others, unsavoury
      > taunts). Also, he did not play his 15 minutes all in a row, he took 5 minutes to recover from a particular shot.
      > Is there a proceedure for striking him from the list of Scholars?

      I think if someone doesn't meet the qualifications they should have to
      complete them at a later time. (Difficult in this case, as Caellian has
      moved back to An Tir.)

      I think Caellian was told he had successfully completed his requirements
      at the time of the prize than we should let that decision rest.

      The endurance portion of the test must allow for water breaks at least,
      how long should those breaks be? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 10 minutes
      isn't a long time to play without water, but when you reach 30 minutes
      in the middle of summer water becomes a necessity.


      > 6) Skipping of Prizes
      > Archibald: Let us not allow any further skipping of prizes, that time has passed.
      > Rusalka: What if some one very qualified (eg Don/Donna) comes in from somewhere else.

      I believe the rules as currently written allow someone to choose the
      prize they wish to compete for, but then must work their way up from
      there. I think this is a good situation, the EAOD is supposed to
      encourage fencing and development, how does having a high level fighter
      in the cadet ranks encourage anyone? If a new person looks at a high
      level fighter and sees a cadet scarf they can be scared off of even
      trying for that prize. How many people think the Free Scholar level
      looks intimidating because of a bunch of us who have been sitting here
      forever?

      > 8) Sponsors of events/ bank accounts

      Having a group bank account is extra work for someone, what's the
      purpose of raising funds? What are we going to do or buy that we can't
      accomplish by passing the hat when necessary? Who will decide what the
      funds are used for?

      Eyrny



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