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Rapier at Scotchtoberfest

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  • EVE HARRIS
    Greetings!     Scotchtoberfest is rapidly approaching, Saturday October 20th to be exact, and there will be fencing galore. I m planning three tournaments
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 3, 2012
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      Greetings!
       
       
      Scotchtoberfest is rapidly approaching, Saturday October 20th to be exact, and there will be fencing galore. I'm planning three tournaments which will be in keeping with the Germano-Scottish theme for the event.
       
      The first tourney is a Fechtschule, a German format found in 16th century and one of the only actual tourneys that involved rapiers. Originally these tourneys were competitions between the two main fencing guilds in the Holy Roman Empire, The Brotherhood of St. Mark (the Marxbrudder) and the Federfechters. In this case fencers will be divided into two groups, one representing the Germans and one representing the Scots. The sides will take turns choosing a fencer and then the other side will choose an opponent for them. The winning fencer recieves a gem and the side with the most gems at the end wins. Depending on numbers of fencers we could let people go through two or three times.
       
      The second tournament will be a sword and targe (buckler) tournament in honour of the Scots. Depending on time/numbers we can run it as a double or single elimination tournament.
       
      Finally, in honour of the Germans, we will hold a two handed weapons tourney. Again it will double or single elimination depending on time/numbers. I'll try to make sure there are some extra two handed weapons available and remember, you only need your single authorization to use a two handed sword.
       
      It's interesting to note that the Germans also liked to play with bucklers and the Scots have a fondness for two handed swords. 
       
      Any bout can be fought using Cut & Thrust as long as the opponents are authorized and appropriately armoured.
       
      If there are any questions, please let me know. Also, you'll get a chance to see the incredibly spiffy list poles and ropes that Gerrard made. They are awesome.
       
      Albrecht
       
      p.s. For those who may consider sticking around in the area, we are looking at holding a fencing and armoured combat practice the following day in Guelph, at the University of Guelph. Details will follow.
       
       
      Yours in Service
       
       
      Albrecht  

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kathleen Gormanshaw
      ... While true, I don t think it s a good idea for people to take a weapon into a tournament that they ve never fought with before, extra scary when you re
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 10, 2012
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        On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:07 AM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:
        > Greetings!
        >
        > Finally, in honour of the Germans, we will hold a two handed weapons tourney. Again it will double or single elimination depending on time/numbers. I'll try to make sure there are some extra two handed weapons available and remember, you only need your single authorization to use a two handed sword.
        >

        While true, I don't think it's a good idea for people to take a weapon
        into a tournament that they've never fought with before, extra scary
        when you're asking them to use it in a very different manner than
        single handed rapier.

        Eyrny
      • Aaron Miedema
        Eyrny Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons, knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding consensus on
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 10, 2012
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          Eyrny

          Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
          knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
          consensus on improving such matter.

          But, Albrecht is correct on the subject of two handed weapons. This
          is how kingdom policy currently stands.

          I might suggest that you
          a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns about it.
          b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the KRM.



          On 10/10/12, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@...> wrote:
          > On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:07 AM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:
          >> Greetings!
          >>
          >> Finally, in honour of the Germans, we will hold a two handed weapons
          >> tourney. Again it will double or single elimination depending on
          >> time/numbers. I'll try to make sure there are some extra two handed
          >> weapons available and remember, you only need your single authorization to
          >> use a two handed sword.
          >>
          >
          > While true, I don't think it's a good idea for people to take a weapon
          > into a tournament that they've never fought with before, extra scary
          > when you're asking them to use it in a very different manner than
          > single handed rapier.
          >
          > Eyrny
          >


          --
          Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
          Historian
          Historical Advisor for the Motion Picture *21 Brothers*
          http://www.21brothers.com/
          Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
          1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
          http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
          **
        • thltoymaker
          From Gerrard: It is also prudent for any Marshal or any fencer to voice concern where concern is warranted !
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 10, 2012
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            From Gerrard: It is also prudent for any Marshal or any fencer to voice
            concern where concern is warranted !

            On 10/10/2012 8:47 PM, Aaron Miedema wrote:
            >
            >
            > Eyrny
            >
            > Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
            > knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
            > consensus on improving such matter.
            >
            > But, Albrecht is correct on the subject of two handed weapons. This
            > is how kingdom policy currently stands.
            >
            > I might suggest that you
            > a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns
            > about it.
            > b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the KRM.
            >
          • Aaron Miedema
            Indeed, and under a seperate subject heading would be the appropriate place. =) ... -- Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A. Historian Historical Advisor for the
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 10, 2012
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              Indeed, and under a seperate subject heading would be the appropriate
              place. =)

              On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:12 PM, thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...> wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > From Gerrard: It is also prudent for any Marshal or any fencer to voice
              > concern where concern is warranted !
              >
              >
              > On 10/10/2012 8:47 PM, Aaron Miedema wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Eyrny
              > >
              > > Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
              > > knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
              > > consensus on improving such matter.
              > >
              > > But, Albrecht is correct on the subject of two handed weapons. This
              > > is how kingdom policy currently stands.
              > >
              > > I might suggest that you
              > > a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns
              > > about it.
              > > b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the
              > KRM.
              > >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
              Historian
              Historical Advisor for the Motion Picture *21 Brothers*
              http://www.21brothers.com/
              Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
              1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
              http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
              **


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • EVE HARRIS
              Just to get things back on topic, I understand the concerns of Her Excellency, the DSRM. There was a two handed weapons tourney at Murder Melee, and several
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 10, 2012
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                Just to get things back on topic, I understand the concerns of Her Excellency, the DSRM. There was a two handed weapons tourney at Murder Melee, and several people invoved had not handled a longsword before. After some discussion and some demonstration, the tourney went off without a hitch, and some of the participants were pretty enthusiastic about playing with longswords, which I'm thinking was one of the purposes of the tourney. I will do the same before the tourney I will be running at Scotchtoberfest.
                 
                Also, if a person is sufficently skilled to have authorized in single sword, and is safe on the list in terms of calibration, the transition to using the longsword isn't a big deal, especially since they''l not be using it to do C&T but the thrust and drawcut of Heavy Rapier. That tends to take a lot of the risk out of it. As long as a person is made aware that they can deliver a harder blow with two hands, something I will make sure I will do, then there shouldn't be an issue.
                 
                 
                 
                 
                I hope I have addressed your concerns sufficently, Your Excellency, and I look forward to you participating in the days tourneys, so you can observe directly the steps taken to ensure a safe and fun day for all.
                 
                 
                Albrecht
                 
                RMIC, Scotchtoberfest
                 

                From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:12:35 PM
                Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Rapier at Scotchtoberfest

                Indeed, and under a seperate subject heading would be the appropriate
                place.  =)

                On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:12 PM, thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > From Gerrard: It is also prudent for any Marshal or any fencer to voice
                > concern where concern is warranted !
                >
                >
                > On 10/10/2012 8:47 PM, Aaron Miedema wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Eyrny
                > >
                > > Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
                > > knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
                > > consensus on improving such matter.
                > >
                > > But, Albrecht is correct on the subject of two handed weapons. This
                > > is how kingdom policy currently stands.
                > >
                > > I might suggest that you
                > > a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns
                > > about it.
                > > b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the
                > KRM.
                > >
                >

                >



                --
                Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                Historian
                Historical Advisor for the Motion Picture *21 Brothers*
                http://www.21brothers.com/
                Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
                **


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Aaron Miedema
                I should append that, it is a discussion for a separate subject heading for the Marshall s list. ... -- Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A. Historian Historical
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 10, 2012
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                  I should append that, it is a discussion for a separate subject
                  heading for the Marshall's list.

                  On 10/10/12, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:
                  > Indeed, and under a seperate subject heading would be the appropriate
                  > place. =)
                  >
                  > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:12 PM, thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >
                  >> **
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> From Gerrard: It is also prudent for any Marshal or any fencer to voice
                  >> concern where concern is warranted !
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On 10/10/2012 8:47 PM, Aaron Miedema wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> > Eyrny
                  >> >
                  >> > Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
                  >> > knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
                  >> > consensus on improving such matter.
                  >> >
                  >> > But, Albrecht is correct on the subject of two handed weapons. This
                  >> > is how kingdom policy currently stands.
                  >> >
                  >> > I might suggest that you
                  >> > a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns
                  >> > about it.
                  >> > b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the
                  >> KRM.
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                  > Historian
                  > Historical Advisor for the Motion Picture *21 Brothers*
                  > http://www.21brothers.com/
                  > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                  > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                  > http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
                  > **
                  >


                  --
                  Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                  Historian
                  Historical Advisor for the Motion Picture *21 Brothers*
                  http://www.21brothers.com/
                  Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                  1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                  http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
                  **
                • Yvonne
                  Whole heartedly seconded. Discussions like this, Marshall to Marshall, belong on the Marshall s List until clarified and available to share with the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 11, 2012
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                    Whole heartedly seconded.

                    Discussions like this, Marshall to Marshall, belong on the Marshall's List until clarified and available to share with the combantant'a at large.

                    Apologies to the greater audience are extended. Please stay tuned.

                    Jocelyn Cranewall
                    Deputy KRM Ealdormere

                    --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I should append that, it is a discussion for a separate subject
                    > heading for the Marshall's list.
                    >
                    > On 10/10/12, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:
                    > > Indeed, and under a seperate subject heading would be the appropriate
                    > > place. =)
                    > >
                    > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 10:12 PM, thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > >
                    > >> **
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> From Gerrard: It is also prudent for any Marshal or any fencer to voice
                    > >> concern where concern is warranted !
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >> On 10/10/2012 8:47 PM, Aaron Miedema wrote:
                    > >> >
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Eyrny
                    > >> >
                    > >> > Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
                    > >> > knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
                    > >> > consensus on improving such matter.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > But, Albrecht is correct on the subject of two handed weapons. This
                    > >> > is how kingdom policy currently stands.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > I might suggest that you
                    > >> > a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns
                    > >> > about it.
                    > >> > b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the
                    > >> KRM.
                    > >> >
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                    > > Historian
                    > > Historical Advisor for the Motion Picture *21 Brothers*
                    > > http://www.21brothers.com/
                    > > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                    > > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                    > > http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
                    > > **
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                    > Historian
                    > Historical Advisor for the Motion Picture *21 Brothers*
                    > http://www.21brothers.com/
                    > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                    > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                    > http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
                    > **
                    >
                  • Kathleen Gormanshaw
                    ... And what have you interpreted my ideas as being? ... I am very fond of 2 handed weapons, I have a lot of fun playing with them. On July 8, as part of the
                    Message 9 of 10 , Oct 11, 2012
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                      >
                      > Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
                      > knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
                      > consensus on improving such matter.

                      And what have you interpreted my ideas as being?

                      > I might suggest that you
                      > a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns about it.
                      > b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the KRM.

                      I am very fond of 2 handed weapons, I have a lot of fun playing with them.

                      On July 8, as part of the changes to authorization procedures, our KRM wrote:
                      "It is the responsibility of the combatant to become familiar with other
                      devices covered by the authorization category before using them outside
                      of practice."

                      Albrecht's original posting said
                      "Finally, in honour of the Germans, we will hold a two handed weapons
                      tourney. Again it will double or single elimination depending on
                      time/numbers. I'll try to make sure there are some extra two handed
                      weapons available and remember, you only need your single
                      authorization to use a two handed sword"

                      Encouraging people who've never played with a longsword in practice to
                      pick it up for a tournament. He has since clarified that he'll have
                      some introduction to the weapons before people play with them, though
                      it still sounds like he may provide verbal instructions and no chance
                      for someone to use the weapon before entering the tournament.

                      This is contrary to the guidelines for authorizations.

                      Eyrny
                    • Yvonne
                      Please take this two the Marshal s discussion group. Jocelyn Cranewall Deputy KRM Ealdormere
                      Message 10 of 10 , Oct 11, 2012
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                        Please take this two the Marshal's discussion group.

                        Jocelyn Cranewall
                        Deputy KRM Ealdormere

                        --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com, Kathleen Gormanshaw <kgormanshaw@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > > Thanks for sharing your ideas on the subject of two handed weapons,
                        > > knowing where people stand on various issues is critical in finding
                        > > consensus on improving such matter.
                        >
                        > And what have you interpreted my ideas as being?
                        >
                        > > I might suggest that you
                        > > a) don't play or marshall the tournament if you have safety concerns about it.
                        > > b) address your concerns about the issue of two handed weapons to the KRM.
                        >
                        > I am very fond of 2 handed weapons, I have a lot of fun playing with them.
                        >
                        > On July 8, as part of the changes to authorization procedures, our KRM wrote:
                        > "It is the responsibility of the combatant to become familiar with other
                        > devices covered by the authorization category before using them outside
                        > of practice."
                        >
                        > Albrecht's original posting said
                        > "Finally, in honour of the Germans, we will hold a two handed weapons
                        > tourney. Again it will double or single elimination depending on
                        > time/numbers. I'll try to make sure there are some extra two handed
                        > weapons available and remember, you only need your single
                        > authorization to use a two handed sword"
                        >
                        > Encouraging people who've never played with a longsword in practice to
                        > pick it up for a tournament. He has since clarified that he'll have
                        > some introduction to the weapons before people play with them, though
                        > it still sounds like he may provide verbal instructions and no chance
                        > for someone to use the weapon before entering the tournament.
                        >
                        > This is contrary to the guidelines for authorizations.
                        >
                        > Eyrny
                        >
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