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Re: [E_Rapier] Fwd: Marshalling the lists

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  • Kathleen Gormanshaw
    I wouldn t require it, there s a risk of a fighter figuring anyone with a helmet on is a fair target, and the marshal may not have other armour on. But in
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 4, 2012
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      I wouldn't require it, there's a risk of a fighter figuring anyone with a helmet on is a fair target, and the marshal may not have other armour on. But in tight quarters such as this weekend, the risk of getting hit for mistaken identity may be much less than the risk of getting hit by accident, and then wearing a helmet may be the better choice.

      Eyrny

      -----Original Message-----
      From: thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...>
      Sender: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:30:33
      Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [E_Rapier] Fwd: Marshalling the lists


      >
      >Gerrard, can you post this to the Rapier list?
      >
      >Just some thoughts steming from the heavy fighter list from this
      >past weekend, as I learned about a marshall who nearly lost an eye...
      >
      >My question / debate, is what does everyone think about the idea of
      >the person who is marshalling the list to be required to wear a mask
      >at all times? From experience, I know a fight can move rather
      >quickly, and I would hate to see a marshal who can't get out of the way.
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >Adelle



      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Aaron Miedema
      I might suggest being proactive on this, and perhaps bringing additional list posts if possible to create a buffer zone between the two lists. This marshall
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 4, 2012
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        I might suggest being proactive on this, and perhaps bringing additional
        list posts if possible to create a buffer zone between the two lists. This
        marshall put themselves in harms way keeping the heavy fighting from
        spilling into the Rapier lists. Kudos and thanks go out to the heavy
        Marshalls looking out for us. But yeah some extra poles creating a 6 foot
        zone between the list might have been a quick fix.

        On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw
        <kgormanshaw@...>wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        > I wouldn't require it, there's a risk of a fighter figuring anyone with a
        > helmet on is a fair target, and the marshal may not have other armour on.
        > But in tight quarters such as this weekend, the risk of getting hit for
        > mistaken identity may be much less than the risk of getting hit by
        > accident, and then wearing a helmet may be the better choice.
        >
        > Eyrny
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...>
        > Sender: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:30:33
        > Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [E_Rapier] Fwd: Marshalling the lists
        >
        >
        > >
        > >Gerrard, can you post this to the Rapier list?
        > >
        > >Just some thoughts steming from the heavy fighter list from this
        > >past weekend, as I learned about a marshall who nearly lost an eye...
        > >
        > >My question / debate, is what does everyone think about the idea of
        > >the person who is marshalling the list to be required to wear a mask
        > >at all times? From experience, I know a fight can move rather
        > >quickly, and I would hate to see a marshal who can't get out of the way.
        > >
        > >Thanks,
        > >
        > >Adelle
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
        Historian
        Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
        1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
        http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • steveb1
        I m not convinced this is a great idea, personally. I can remember getting a fair amount of use from my peripheral vision as a marshal, keeping little kids out
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 4, 2012
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          I'm not convinced this is a great idea, personally. I can remember
          getting a fair amount of use from my peripheral vision as a marshal,
          keeping little kids out of the list, and wearing a mask restricts that.
          The only time I'd want a mask as a marshal would be for a big melee or
          something like Mordain's Rings.

          Gerhard


          On 3/4/2012 1:30 PM, thltoymaker wrote:
          >> Gerrard, can you post this to the Rapier list?
          >>
          >> Just some thoughts steming from the heavy fighter list from this
          >> past weekend, as I learned about a marshall who nearly lost an eye...
          >>
          >> My question / debate, is what does everyone think about the idea of
          >> the person who is marshalling the list to be required to wear a mask
          >> at all times? From experience, I know a fight can move rather
          >> quickly, and I would hate to see a marshal who can't get out of the way.
          >>
          >> Thanks,
          >>
          >> Adelle
          >
        • Yvonne
          My 2 cents, the planning of the event spaces could have been better. There was gobs of space that was underutilized in the site, such as the dance hall and
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 5, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            My 2 cents, the planning of the event spaces could have been better. There was gobs of space that was underutilized in the site, such as the dance hall and stage areas...the 2 marshall styles should not have been in the same gym. Even Count Nigel mentioned his concerns about the proximaty of the two lists

            Or,since everyone was aware of the small space, armoured combat should not have been doing melee, but singles tournaments instead, to mitigate the risk that was experienced on Sat.

            Not having been on the planning team for this event, I cannot speak on thier behave, but I can offer creative feedback, such as greater communications and understanding of martial requirements. What happened on Saturday is not new to Winter War, its happened before and is preventable with good planning.

            My 2 cents,
            Jocelyn

            --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:
            >
            > I might suggest being proactive on this, and perhaps bringing additional
            > list posts if possible to create a buffer zone between the two lists. This
            > marshall put themselves in harms way keeping the heavy fighting from
            > spilling into the Rapier lists. Kudos and thanks go out to the heavy
            > Marshalls looking out for us. But yeah some extra poles creating a 6 foot
            > zone between the list might have been a quick fix.
            >
            > On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw
            > <kgormanshaw@...>wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > I wouldn't require it, there's a risk of a fighter figuring anyone with a
            > > helmet on is a fair target, and the marshal may not have other armour on.
            > > But in tight quarters such as this weekend, the risk of getting hit for
            > > mistaken identity may be much less than the risk of getting hit by
            > > accident, and then wearing a helmet may be the better choice.
            > >
            > > Eyrny
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...>
            > > Sender: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:30:33
            > > Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [E_Rapier] Fwd: Marshalling the lists
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > >Gerrard, can you post this to the Rapier list?
            > > >
            > > >Just some thoughts steming from the heavy fighter list from this
            > > >past weekend, as I learned about a marshall who nearly lost an eye...
            > > >
            > > >My question / debate, is what does everyone think about the idea of
            > > >the person who is marshalling the list to be required to wear a mask
            > > >at all times? From experience, I know a fight can move rather
            > > >quickly, and I would hate to see a marshal who can't get out of the way.
            > > >
            > > >Thanks,
            > > >
            > > >Adelle
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
            > Historian
            > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
            > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
            > http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • John Wyatt
            Constructive feedback is important, and I know that s how you intended it Jocelyn.  I too wasn t thrilled with the set-up from last Saturday - I personally
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 5, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Constructive feedback is important, and I know that's how you intended it Jocelyn.  I too wasn't thrilled with the set-up from last Saturday - I personally cringed when I walked in - but I can say the Event Staff did they best they could with what they were given.  It was a bit of a struggle to find a site that met on paper the needs of everyone and that was affordable.  Also, I don't think changes of location were possible during the day to better utilize the space.  I wasn't part of the planning or the Event Staff (I came and did a shift at Gate and then played on the Rapier List), but I did have the Principal wither me with a stare as she went into her office behind Gate first thing in the morning, and did see the Autocrat trying to manage the situation of SCA kids playing with school equipment and books.  Again, I don't know - I only suspect - that a change wasn't possible.
               
              As a question on this topic for everyone, would you be willing to pay more for Site, to have a bigger list?  Our group, and others have been moving further and further out from major venues to secure Event Space.  This is partly to do with availablility and insurance (you want to do what in my hall with rattan and rapiers?), but another big part is cost.  Would you be willing and/or able to pay $15 to $25 for a site fee in order to play in a bigger list?  We've had Winter War's site fee locked at $10 including tithe for at least 3 years now, but what would be helpful to know for next year is whether this is as important as the space to play? 
               
              If we found a bigger space, for a site fee of $15, would you show?
               
              I'm sure this question is important not just for Trino, but other groups planning Events as well. 
               
              My 2 cents to add to the pot,
               
              Mateo
               

              ________________________________
              From: Yvonne <tamlin_01@...>
              To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 8:05 AM
              Subject: [E_Rapier] Re: Fwd: Marshalling the lists


               
              My 2 cents, the planning of the event spaces could have been better. There was gobs of space that was underutilized in the site, such as the dance hall and stage areas...the 2 marshall styles should not have been in the same gym. Even Count Nigel mentioned his concerns about the proximaty of the two lists

              Or,since everyone was aware of the small space, armoured combat should not have been doing melee, but singles tournaments instead, to mitigate the risk that was experienced on Sat.

              Not having been on the planning team for this event, I cannot speak on thier behave, but I can offer creative feedback, such as greater communications and understanding of martial requirements. What happened on Saturday is not new to Winter War, its happened before and is preventable with good planning.

              My 2 cents,
              Jocelyn

              --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:
              >
              > I might suggest being proactive on this, and perhaps bringing additional
              > list posts if possible to create a buffer zone between the two lists. This
              > marshall put themselves in harms way keeping the heavy fighting from
              > spilling into the Rapier lists. Kudos and thanks go out to the heavy
              > Marshalls looking out for us. But yeah some extra poles creating a 6 foot
              > zone between the list might have been a quick fix.
              >
              > On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Kathleen Gormanshaw
              > <kgormanshaw@...>wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > I wouldn't require it, there's a risk of a fighter figuring anyone with a
              > > helmet on is a fair target, and the marshal may not have other armour on.
              > > But in tight quarters such as this weekend, the risk of getting hit for
              > > mistaken identity may be much less than the risk of getting hit by
              > > accident, and then wearing a helmet may be the better choice.
              > >
              > > Eyrny
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: thltoymaker <thltoymaker@...>
              > > Sender: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:30:33
              > > Reply-To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [E_Rapier] Fwd: Marshalling the lists
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > >Gerrard, can you post this to the Rapier list?
              > > >
              > > >Just some thoughts steming from the heavy fighter list from this
              > > >past weekend, as I learned about a marshall who nearly lost an eye...
              > > >
              > > >My question / debate, is what does everyone think about the idea of
              > > >the person who is marshalling the list to be required to wear a mask
              > > >at all times? From experience, I know a fight can move rather
              > > >quickly, and I would hate to see a marshal who can't get out of the way.
              > > >
              > > >Thanks,
              > > >
              > > >Adelle
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
              > Historian
              > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
              > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
              > http://www.legacybookspress.com/books.html#Bayonet
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • David Gotlieb
              Before I comment, I have to state clearly that I wasn t at Winter War, so I can t speak about this issue with direct knowledge. That being said, it seems to me
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 5, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Before I comment, I have to state clearly that I wasn't at Winter War, so I can't speak about this issue with direct knowledge.

                That being said, it seems to me that when planning you have to tailor your planned activities to the space available and the number of participants expected. In some cases, that may mean needing to pay more for gate so that we can have appropriate space. But it also means that the people in charge of the activities (Rapier, Armoured Combat but also A&S, Archery etc.) need to be aware of the space and plan accordingly (preferable planning together). It means maybe not running activities simultaneously if space is limited (morning for rapier and afternoon armoured combat perhaps?). Or it can mean changing your tournament styles to better suit the space (i.e. full-scale melee battles with 10-15 people per side are probably not a good idea if space is limited).

                I can't speak to the specific of the event, but if marshals were having to put themselves in danger to protect people outside of the designated lists (whether it was fencers on their own list or spectators standing outside the list ropes), that to me means that there was a problem with the usage of the space.


                Couple of pennies from an interested observer.

                Dafydd



                ________________________________
                From: John Wyatt <jwyatt2@...>
                To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 1:12:04 PM
                Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Re: Fwd: Marshalling the lists


                 
                Constructive feedback is important, and I know that's how you intended it Jocelyn.  I too wasn't thrilled with the set-up from last Saturday - I personally cringed when I walked in - but I can say the Event Staff did they best they could with what they were given.  It was a bit of a struggle to find a site that met on paper the needs of everyone and that was affordable.  Also, I don't think changes of location were possible during the day to better utilize the space.  I wasn't part of the planning or the Event Staff (I came and did a shift at Gate and then played on the Rapier List), but I did have the Principal wither me with a stare as she went into her office behind Gate first thing in the morning, and did see the Autocrat trying to manage the situation of SCA kids playing with school equipment and books.  Again, I don't know - I only suspect - that a change wasn't possible.
                 
                As a question on this topic for everyone, would you be willing to pay more for Site, to have a bigger list?  Our group, and others have been moving further and further out from major venues to secure Event Space.  This is partly to do with availablility and insurance (you want to do what in my hall with rattan and rapiers?), but another big part is cost.  Would you be willing and/or able to pay $15 to $25 for a site fee in order to play in a bigger list?  We've had Winter War's site fee locked at $10 including tithe for at least 3 years now, but what would be helpful to know for next year is whether this is as important as the space to play? 
                 
                If we found a bigger space, for a site fee of $15, would you show?
                 
                I'm sure this question is important not just for Trino, but other groups planning Events as well. 
                 
                My 2 cents to add to the pot,
                 
                Mateo

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Aodhan of Greensleeves
                I ve always liked the idea of running at different times because then I get to do both. Not so great admittedly for those that only do one of the two. -Aodhan
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 5, 2012
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                  I've always liked the idea of running at different times because then I get to do both. Not so great admittedly for those that only do one of the two.

                  -Aodhan (who finds it hard to fit Archery, Rapier, Heavy and Thrown into a weekend event let alone a day one)


                  From: David Gotlieb
                  Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 1:39 PM
                  To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Re: Fwd: Marshalling the lists



                  Before I comment, I have to state clearly that I wasn't at Winter War, so I can't speak about this issue with direct knowledge.

                  That being said, it seems to me that when planning you have to tailor your planned activities to the space available and the number of participants expected. In some cases, that may mean needing to pay more for gate so that we can have appropriate space. But it also means that the people in charge of the activities (Rapier, Armoured Combat but also A&S, Archery etc.) need to be aware of the space and plan accordingly (preferable planning together). It means maybe not running activities simultaneously if space is limited (morning for rapier and afternoon armoured combat perhaps?). Or it can mean changing your tournament styles to better suit the space (i.e. full-scale melee battles with 10-15 people per side are probably not a good idea if space is limited).

                  I can't speak to the specific of the event, but if marshals were having to put themselves in danger to protect people outside of the designated lists (whether it was fencers on their own list or spectators standing outside the list ropes), that to me means that there was a problem with the usage of the space.

                  Couple of pennies from an interested observer.

                  Dafydd

                  ________________________________
                  From: John Wyatt <jwyatt2@...>
                  To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, March 5, 2012 1:12:04 PM
                  Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Re: Fwd: Marshalling the lists



                  Constructive feedback is important, and I know that's how you intended it Jocelyn. I too wasn't thrilled with the set-up from last Saturday - I personally cringed when I walked in - but I can say the Event Staff did they best they could with what they were given. It was a bit of a struggle to find a site that met on paper the needs of everyone and that was affordable. Also, I don't think changes of location were possible during the day to better utilize the space. I wasn't part of the planning or the Event Staff (I came and did a shift at Gate and then played on the Rapier List), but I did have the Principal wither me with a stare as she went into her office behind Gate first thing in the morning, and did see the Autocrat trying to manage the situation of SCA kids playing with school equipment and books. Again, I don't know - I only suspect - that a change wasn't possible.

                  As a question on this topic for everyone, would you be willing to pay more for Site, to have a bigger list? Our group, and others have been moving further and further out from major venues to secure Event Space. This is partly to do with availablility and insurance (you want to do what in my hall with rattan and rapiers?), but another big part is cost. Would you be willing and/or able to pay $15 to $25 for a site fee in order to play in a bigger list? We've had Winter War's site fee locked at $10 including tithe for at least 3 years now, but what would be helpful to know for next year is whether this is as important as the space to play?

                  If we found a bigger space, for a site fee of $15, would you show?

                  I'm sure this question is important not just for Trino, but other groups planning Events as well.

                  My 2 cents to add to the pot,

                  Mateo

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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