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Re: [E_Rapier] Gorget rule clarification from the author of the current Corporate rules

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  • Aaron Gormanshaw
    From Giovanni the Elder: @ Mateo: Given the current blades we use, an overstout thrust accidentally delivered to the carotids troubles me as much as a cutting
    Message 1 of 51 , May 11, 2010
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      From Giovanni the Elder:

      @ Mateo: Given the current blades we use, an overstout thrust
      accidentally delivered to the carotids troubles me as much as a cutting
      blow does. More so, as all the force of the thrust would be vectored
      into the location struck. c, G




      ________________________________
      From: Aaron Gormanshaw <agormanshaw@...>
      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 1:16:55 PM
      Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Gorget rule clarification from the author of the current Corporate rules


      Mateo,

      I'm working on it, but he's offline right now...

      :o)

      Hoskuld

      ____________ _________ _________ __
      From: John Wyatt <jwyatt2@yahoo. com>
      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup s.com
      Sent: Tue, May 11, 2010 12:59:35 PM
      Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Gorget rule clarification from the author of the current Corporate rules


      Hoskuld,

      I'm very glad you sent this to the list as I think this very much helps us see what is being discussed.

      I won't disagree with the statements made by a Medical Doctor, he is a Doctor after all.

      However - he is making a case for "...cut & thrust combat..." Is this a general term for Rapier play, or is this for the Cut & Thrust form only?

      I would ask you if you could clarify this point with him as most of the concerns raised on the list from Herr Wilhelm's original post are centred around Heavy Rapier - not Cut & Thrust.

      I personally have no issue with increasing the neck coverage for 95% in Cut & Thrust Combat. I also think knee pads, made to the same standard as elbow pads, should be a mandatory item.

      In Service,

      Mateo de Merida


      --- On Tue, 5/11/10, Aaron Gormanshaw <agormanshaw@ rogers.com> wrote:

      From: Aaron Gormanshaw <agormanshaw@ rogers.com>
      Subject: [E_Rapier] Gorget rule clarification from the author of the current Corporate rules
      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroup s.com
      Date: Tuesday, May 11, 2010, 5:16 PM




      ... as someone who had a little to do with the rules as currently in place, I confess that the wording of the rules is not as clear as it could have been. We envisioned rigid coverage as surrounding the neck, subject to the same allowance for hinges as in a armored combat dog collar or mantle-type gorget. Blunt force blows to the carotid artery can cause unconsicousness, and tears to the inner lining of the artery... which are considered Bad Things (tm) by emergency physicians. Like me.

      Most places in the SCA seem to have interpreted the current language in the same manner as we intended, despite wording which is ambiguous. And dog-collar gorgets are readily available...

      I cannot agree that leaving the sides of the neck relatively unprotected in cut and thrust combat is a good idea, and would vigorously oppose any attempts to revise the Corporate rules to specifically allow such. I would support language changes which clarified the intent of the current rule; but that does not seem to be the intent of the current suggestion, which I think extremely ill-advised.

      I remain,
      in service,
      Baron Giovanni di Fiamma, OWST
      //
      WS Ernoehazy, Jr, MD, FACEP


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kathleen Gormanshaw
      ... hmm... oh yeah, both cards are blue! ... While lots of dummys are available, finding a way to simulate the neck underneath is harder. ... Sure :-) Though
      Message 51 of 51 , May 12, 2010
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        On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 3:18 PM, M <menzinas@...> wrote:
        >> > I can't go around strangling members of my Barony! For any reason. Even educational ones.
        >> You don't have to strangle him to death, just a little demonstration.
        >
        > That is the 'Society for Consenting Adults' not 'Society for Creative Anacronism' don't get them confused.

        hmm... oh yeah, both cards are blue!

        > How about a mythbuster's approch? Put the gorget(s) on a dummy and wack the dummy with a sword?

        While lots of dummys are available, finding a way to simulate the neck
        underneath is harder.

        > ps wanna wrestle?

        Sure :-) Though my impression is that you're learning to fight,
        unlike judo which is very much a sport.

        Eyrny
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