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Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

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  • John Enzinas
    But of course I know him. He s me. I ve got no problem with a rapier moot happening. --j On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Eve Harris & David Stamper
    Message 1 of 26 , May 11, 2010
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      But of course I know him. He's me.
      I've got no problem with a rapier moot happening.
      --j

      On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Eve Harris & David Stamper
      <evedave1@...> wrote:
      > Greetings!
      >
      > Does anyone know who the Rapier Marshal in Charge is for War of the
      > Trilliums VI? I'd like to get in touch with them about the possibility of
      > holding a rapier moot at Trilliums.
      >
      > Albrecht
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Eve Harris & David Stamper
      Excellent! I ll get back to you about timing. I just don t want to conflict with any tourneys or other events being held, like the Prize fights. Albrecht _____
      Message 2 of 26 , May 11, 2010
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        Excellent! I'll get back to you about timing. I just don't want to conflict
        with any tourneys or other events being held, like the Prize fights.



        Albrecht





        _____

        From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of John Enzinas
        Sent: May 11, 2010 2:37 PM
        To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums





        But of course I know him. He's me.
        I've got no problem with a rapier moot happening.
        --j

        On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Eve Harris & David Stamper
        <evedave1@rogers. <mailto:evedave1%40rogers.com> com> wrote:
        > Greetings!
        >
        > Does anyone know who the Rapier Marshal in Charge is for War of the
        > Trilliums VI? I'd like to get in touch with them about the possibility of
        > holding a rapier moot at Trilliums.
        >
        > Albrecht
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Enzinas
        So far I am aware of a fencing tourny and a triathelon for the Olympiad and the Galbraith tourney. I d also like to hold another torchlight tourney. I have yet
        Message 3 of 26 , May 11, 2010
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          So far I am aware of a fencing tourny and a triathelon for the
          Olympiad and the Galbraith tourney. I'd also like to hold another
          torchlight tourney.
          I have yet to be asked about anything else.
          --g

          On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:48 PM, Eve Harris & David Stamper
          <evedave1@...> wrote:
          > Excellent! I'll get back to you about timing. I just don't want to conflict
          > with any tourneys or other events being held, like the Prize fights.
          >
          >
          >
          > Albrecht
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  _____
          >
          > From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          > Of John Enzinas
          > Sent: May 11, 2010 2:37 PM
          > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > But of course I know him. He's me.
          > I've got no problem with a rapier moot happening.
          > --j
          >
          > On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Eve Harris & David Stamper
          > <evedave1@rogers. <mailto:evedave1%40rogers.com> com> wrote:
          >> Greetings!
          >>
          >> Does anyone know who the Rapier Marshal in Charge is for War of the
          >> Trilliums VI? I'd like to get in touch with them about the possibility of
          >> holding a rapier moot at Trilliums.
          >>
          >> Albrecht
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Aaron Miedema
          Hi all... I ll give you warning this is a longish email. But it is of interest to all intending to attend War of the Trilliums and participate in the Rapier
          Message 4 of 26 , May 17, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi all... I'll give you warning this is a longish email. But it is of
            interest to all intending to attend War of the Trilliums and participate in
            the Rapier activities. It is a work in progress, there are some
            Tournaments still to be added, and the schedule is still to be nailed out.
            But you may want to start prepping for this now.

            Do ask questions if you have them.

            I'm also open to suggestions and ideas to keep with the Viking theme.


            Rapier Schedule for War of the Trilliums: Pillage of the Damned.



            The theme of this year�s War of the trilliums is Viking. In order to keep
            with the theme, I have decided to dive in with both feet and try and make a
            series of Viking type contests. Some of these are fighting tournaments and
            some are non combat tcontests meant to encourage fencers to embrace the
            theme of the event.



            THE FJORD SAGAS


            The fame of Vikings were often known by the deeds of individuals, their
            appearance, their prowess, their wealth and acquisition, and their legacy
            in poetry. As a result, fencers are encouraged to participate in a series
            of combat and non-combat contests to prove their worthiness as true Vikings.



            WEEKEND-LONG TOURNEYS

            *Best Dressed Viking:* (1st place: 3 points, 2nd place: 2 points,
            3rdplace: 1 point, non-compliance: -1 point) Fencers in their armour
            are to
            dress in as Viking a manner as possible (of course, mask, gorget, and
            gloves will be excluded from the assessment). 1st place will go to the
            fencer who is consistently best dressed in Viking clothing in the
            List. 2ndplace will go to all other fencers who are dressed in full
            Viking manner.
            3rd place will go to all fencers who made some sort of homage to the Viking
            theme with their armour. Any fencer not participating in the Viking theme
            will lose one point.

            *Best Armed Viking:* (Rapier legal Viking sword: 1 point, Rapier legal
            Viking buckler/shield: 1 point, other rapier legal Viking weapon accessory:
            1 point, Use of non-Viking weapon or parry device: -1 point for each
            weapon) Fencers
            are encouraged to take advantage of the new blade rules and use a rapier
            legal Viking weapons, the Hanwei Practical Viking sword is an inexpensive
            choice. Fencers will need to use only these weapons in all fighting
            tournaments in order to be awarded the points. Conversely fencers using
            non-Viking weapons will be penalized for each non-Viking weapon they use
            over the course of the weekend. Fencers will be given the lowest possible
            score for the entirety of the Fjord Saga Tournament.



            FRIDAY TOURNAMENTS



            FRIDAY EVENING



            Grendel Tournament: (1st place: 3 points, 2nd place: 2 points, 3rd place:
            1 point, non-compliance: -1 point). This will be a torchlight
            tournament. With
            all the Vikings gathered at the mead hall for an Althing they are attacked
            by a seemingly invincible monster who is intent of rending our them limb
            from limb. The monster will be armed with two daggers representing its
            claws. The monster will only be able to be killed by one particular type
            of hit (thrust, tip cut, push/draw cut) on a single target location (head,
            torso, left arm, right arm, left leg, or right leg).

            First place will go to the combatant that kills the monster.

            Second place will go to and combatant incapacitated or killed by the
            monster.

            Third Place will go to any combatant that escapes the mead hall.

            Non-compliance is awarded to any active fencer still unwounded and in the
            mead hall when the monster is killed (with the exception of the combatant
            that kills the monster).



            SATURDAY TOURNAMENTS



            *Jeorl Tourney:* After the appearance of the monster it seems fitting to
            find a new Fjord to live in, there are two boats and crews need to be
            determined. This will be a Warlord Tournament to determine boat crews for
            the �The Wrong side of the Fjord� Tournament.



            *The Wrong side of the Fjord:* (all members of the winning team will gain
            1 point) This will be a Boat battle. One side of the Fjord looks more
            fertile than the other, the Vikings fight for its possession. The teams
            determined from Jeorl Tournament will each man a boat. The team that
            survives with an operable boat (i.e. three crew men) wins the tournament.



            *Land Grab Tournament:* (score counted by territory held by each
            combatant) Vikings were notable farmers and always in search of good land. In
            this case, the fertile lands in the upper fjord, away from the windswept
            headlands. There will be two lists each represent one side of the Fjord. Each
            list is subdivided into three lists in a line. Half of the fencers (the
            teams determined by the Jeorl Tourney) will be in cue for each of these
            lines of lists in reverse precedence of date of Rapier authorization. The
            action of tournament will be fought in phases. All combats in a phase will
            be resolved before moving on, fencers will then move up and down the lists
            and the combats for the next phase of the tournament will be determined and
            then resolved, and so on. In the first phase, the first two fencers will
            enter the first list and fight, the victor of the bout will move to the
            second list, the loser will move to the back of the line, both fencers will
            move to the back of the line in the case of a double hit. In the second
            phase the first list will be brought up to two combatants from the cue. From
            this point on any list with two or more fencers in it will need to be
            resolved by combat so that only one or no combatant remains alive. The
            victor of a combat will move to the next list up, or remain where they are
            if they are in the third list. The loser of a combat will move down one
            list or to the back of the line if they lose in the First list. At the end
            of the tournament (1 hour), the fencer�s in sole possession of a list will
            be awarded points. They will receive 1 point for the first list, 2 points
            for the second list, and 3 points for the third list. If there are two or
            more occupants in a list at the end of the tournament, the points are split
            between them, rounded down.



            *Thrall Uprising*: Over time the Vikings that have grown rich on their
            lands have also become complacent and the Thralls rise to gain freedom and
            booty. Those fencers which were in possession of a list in the *Land Grab
            Tourney* are the �landed� Vikings and will form one team. All other
            fencers form the Thrall hoards. The tournament will be repeated until the
            alloted time expires, each side will be awarded their best score. The
            melee will be fought until all members of one team have been killed or
            incapacitated, at which point the score is tallied.

            The Thralls will gain 2 points for killing a landed Viking, The Landed
            Vikings will gain one point for killing a thrall. Double points will be
            awarded for incapacitation, due to both arms being hit, or by
            immobilization (leg hit).



            SATURDAY EVENING



            *Best Saga:* (1st place: 3 points, 2nd place: 2 points, 3rd place: 1
            point, non-compliance: -1 point) Fencers will arrange for a presentation of
            a saga bragging of their achievements for the event. This will be a judged
            tourney. Fencers may�and are encouraged to�recruit the talents of a skald.
            First and second place will be given to the sagas judged best, all other
            entrants will receive 3rd place.




            --
            Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
            Historian
            Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
            1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
            http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
            or
            as an ebook
            http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kathleen Gormanshaw
            Wow! Eyrny
            Message 5 of 26 , May 17, 2012
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              Wow!

              Eyrny
            • David Gotlieb
              Hi Aaron,   This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink the
              Message 6 of 26 , May 17, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Aaron,
                 
                This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink the idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own viking-period equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who put extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and buy hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single event.
                 
                Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which I fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to buy a viking sword, buckler etc.

                I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't take away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.  
                Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                Canton of Harrowgate Heath



                ________________________________
                From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 9:38:00 AM
                Subject: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

                Hi all...  I'll give you warning this is a longish email.  But it is of
                interest to all intending to attend War of the Trilliums and participate in
                the Rapier activities.  It is a work in progress, there are some
                Tournaments still to be added, and the schedule is still to be nailed out.
                But you may want to start prepping for this now.

                Do ask questions if you have them.

                I'm also open to suggestions and ideas to keep with the Viking theme.


                Rapier Schedule for War of the Trilliums:  Pillage of the Damned.



                The theme of this year’s War of the trilliums is Viking.  In order to keep
                with the theme, I have decided to dive in with both feet and try and make a
                series of Viking type contests.  Some of these are fighting tournaments and
                some are non combat tcontests meant to encourage fencers to embrace the
                theme of the event.



                THE FJORD SAGAS


                The fame of Vikings were often known by the deeds of individuals, their
                appearance, their prowess, their wealth and acquisition, and their legacy
                in poetry.  As a result, fencers are encouraged to participate in a series
                of combat and non-combat contests to prove their worthiness as true Vikings.



                WEEKEND-LONG TOURNEYS

                *Best Dressed Viking:* (1st place: 3 points, 2nd place: 2 points,
                3rdplace: 1 point, non-compliance: -1 point) Fencers in their armour
                are to
                dress in as Viking a manner as possible (of course, mask, gorget, and
                gloves will be excluded from the assessment). 1st place will go to the
                fencer who is consistently best dressed in Viking clothing in the
                List. 2ndplace will go to all other fencers who are dressed in full
                Viking manner.
                3rd place will go to all fencers who made some sort of homage to the Viking
                theme with their armour. Any fencer not participating in the Viking theme
                will lose one point.

                *Best Armed Viking:* (Rapier legal Viking sword: 1 point, Rapier legal
                Viking buckler/shield: 1 point, other rapier legal Viking weapon accessory:
                1 point, Use of non-Viking weapon or parry device: -1 point for each
                weapon) Fencers
                are encouraged to take advantage of the new blade rules and use a rapier
                legal Viking weapons, the Hanwei Practical Viking sword is an inexpensive
                choice. Fencers will need to use only these weapons in all fighting
                tournaments in order to be awarded the points. Conversely fencers using
                non-Viking weapons will be penalized for each non-Viking weapon they use
                over the course of the weekend. Fencers will be given the lowest possible
                score for the entirety of the Fjord Saga Tournament.



                FRIDAY TOURNAMENTS



                FRIDAY EVENING



                Grendel Tournament:  (1st place: 3 points, 2nd place: 2 points, 3rd place:
                1 point, non-compliance: -1 point).  This will be a torchlight
                tournament.  With
                all the Vikings  gathered at the mead hall for an Althing they are attacked
                by a seemingly invincible monster who is intent of rending our them limb
                from limb.  The monster will be armed with two daggers representing its
                claws.  The monster will only be able to be killed by one particular type
                of hit (thrust, tip cut, push/draw cut) on a single target location (head,
                torso, left arm, right arm, left leg, or right leg).

                First place will go to the combatant that kills the monster.

                Second place will go to and combatant incapacitated or killed by the
                monster.

                Third Place will go to any combatant that escapes the mead hall.

                Non-compliance is awarded to any active fencer still unwounded and in the
                mead hall when the monster is killed (with the exception of the combatant
                that kills the monster).



                SATURDAY TOURNAMENTS



                *Jeorl Tourney:*  After the appearance of the monster it seems fitting to
                find a new Fjord to live in, there are two boats and crews need to be
                determined.  This will be a Warlord Tournament to determine boat crews for
                the “The Wrong side of the Fjord” Tournament.



                *The Wrong side of the Fjord:*  (all members of the winning team will gain
                1 point)  This will be a Boat battle.  One side of the Fjord looks more
                fertile than the other, the Vikings fight for its possession.  The teams
                determined from Jeorl Tournament will each man a boat.  The team that
                survives with an operable boat (i.e. three crew men) wins the tournament.



                *Land Grab Tournament:*  (score counted by territory held by each
                combatant) Vikings were notable farmers and always in search of good land.  In
                this case, the fertile lands in the upper fjord, away from the windswept
                headlands.  There will be two lists each represent one side of the Fjord.  Each
                list is subdivided into three lists in a line.  Half of the fencers (the
                teams determined by the Jeorl Tourney) will be in cue for each of these
                lines of lists in reverse precedence of date of Rapier authorization.  The
                action of tournament will be fought in phases.  All combats in a phase will
                be resolved before moving on, fencers will then move up and down the lists
                and the combats for the next phase of the tournament will be determined and
                then resolved, and so on.  In the first phase, the first two fencers will
                enter the first list and fight, the victor of the bout will move to the
                second list, the loser will move to the back of the line, both fencers will
                move to the back of the line in the case of a double hit.  In the second
                phase the first list will be brought up to two combatants from the cue.  From
                this point on any list with two or more fencers in it will need to be
                resolved by combat so that only one or no combatant remains alive.  The
                victor of a combat will move to the next list up, or remain where they are
                if they are in the third list.  The loser of a combat will move down one
                list or to the back of the line if they lose in the First list.  At the end
                of the tournament (1 hour), the fencer’s in sole possession of a list will
                be awarded points.  They will receive 1 point for the first list, 2 points
                for the second list, and 3 points for the third list.  If there are two or
                more occupants in a list at the end of the tournament, the points are split
                between them, rounded down.



                *Thrall Uprising*:  Over time the Vikings that have grown rich on their
                lands have also become complacent and the Thralls rise to gain freedom and
                booty.  Those fencers which were in possession of a list in the *Land Grab
                Tourney* are the “landed” Vikings and will form one team.  All other
                fencers form the Thrall hoards.  The tournament will be repeated until the
                alloted time expires, each side will be awarded their best score.  The
                melee will be fought until all members of one team have been killed or
                incapacitated, at which point the score is tallied.

                The Thralls will gain 2 points for killing a landed Viking, The Landed
                Vikings will gain one point for killing a thrall.  Double points will be
                awarded for incapacitation, due to both arms being hit, or by
                immobilization (leg hit).



                SATURDAY EVENING



                *Best Saga:*  (1st place: 3 points, 2nd place: 2 points, 3rd place: 1
                point, non-compliance: -1 point) Fencers will arrange for a presentation of
                a saga bragging of their achievements for the event.  This will be a judged
                tourney.  Fencers may—and are encouraged to—recruit the talents of a skald.
                First and second place will be given to the sagas judged best, all other
                entrants will receive 3rd place.




                --
                Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                Historian
                Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                or
                as an ebook
                http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                ------------------------------------

                Yahoo! Groups Links



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Aaron Miedema
                A valid concern David, having been one of those impovrished members for years, I am sensitive to the issue of economic marginalization. The intent of the
                Message 7 of 26 , May 17, 2012
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                  A valid concern David, having been one of those impovrished members for
                  years, I am sensitive to the issue of economic marginalization.

                  The intent of the weapon rule is to penalize those who attempt to maximize
                  their weapon style to win rather than to fit the theme.

                  As to the acquisition of additional weapons. The Hanwei Practical Viking
                  can be acquired for under $100 if you know how to shop around, in fact I've
                  already catalogued websites--I will share with anyone interested. (PLEASE
                  POST ME BEFORE BUYING, I can give some helpful advice). Borrowing is also
                  acceptable.... I know I have one that I won't be using. As to round
                  viking-like bucklers, I have playwood I need to use for making boats, but,
                  if there are left overs I will contemplate getting some mixing bowls and
                  making extra sheilds for people to use.

                  Although its that easy, two foot round piece of plywood, a piece of wood
                  for a handle and a metal mixing bowl is all you need for a viking sheild,
                  have that and your regular rapier, and there is no point deduction.

                  Its not so economically in feasible as it at first may seem, you just have
                  to think a little outside the box.

                  As to what you are wearing, put something Viking on your armour and you get
                  a point... it could even be mounting some silly horns on your mask. Just
                  make a slight effort and its a point. If you don't bother, well then you
                  will lose a point.
                  Does that sound fair?
                  <http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html>


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • EVE HARRIS
                  Greetings!   I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and it s pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 17, 2012
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                    Greetings!
                     
                    I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around $100, and I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it might be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know.  If we used a regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess sticking horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                     
                    I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone has any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please feel free to get in touch with me.
                     
                    Albrecht
                      


                    ________________________________
                    From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                    To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                    Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums



                     

                    Hi Aaron,
                     
                    This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink the idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own viking-period equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who put extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and buy hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single event.
                     
                    Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which I fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to buy a viking sword, buckler etc.

                    I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't take away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.  
                    Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                    Canton of Harrowgate Heath

                    ________________________________

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Aaron Miedema
                    Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient to get the point. I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not subjected to
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 17, 2012
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                      Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient to
                      get the point. I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not
                      subjected to negative judgement.

                      As to the swords, I'm not opposed to setting conditions of 31" blade or
                      less, simple straight quillions. as the Requirement for a Viking type
                      sword. As to the Viking Practicals, they are boarderline. If you decide
                      to buy something... I'm pretty sure that Relicks and Kult of Athena both
                      will test to SCA standards and send you one that meets it... But you do
                      have to ask them to do that. No matter who you buy from make sure they
                      test it. And make sure you test it to Heavy Rapier Standards and not Cut
                      and Thrust. It would be very unhappy to get one you can't use. =(

                      On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > Greetings!
                      >
                      > I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and
                      > it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse
                      > woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the
                      > tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around $100, and
                      > I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it might
                      > be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know. If we used a
                      > regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess sticking
                      > horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                      >
                      > I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone has
                      > any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please feel free
                      > to get in touch with me.
                      >
                      > Albrecht
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                      > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Aaron,
                      >
                      > This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much
                      > time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink the
                      > idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own viking-period
                      > equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who put
                      > extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new
                      > equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and buy
                      > hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single event.
                      >
                      > Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which I
                      > fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to buy a
                      > viking sword, buckler etc.
                      >
                      > I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't take
                      > away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.
                      > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                      > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                      Historian
                      Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                      1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                      http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                      or
                      as an ebook
                      http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • EVE HARRIS
                      If we could provide documentation of Norse swords longer than 31 , would that be ok?   Albrecht   ________________________________ From: Aaron Miedema
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 17, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        If we could provide documentation of Norse swords longer than 31", would that be ok?
                         
                        Albrecht
                         


                        ________________________________
                        From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                        To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:52:37 PM
                        Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

                        Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient to
                        get the point.  I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not
                        subjected to negative judgement.

                        As to the swords, I'm not opposed to setting conditions of 31" blade or
                        less, simple straight quillions. as the Requirement for a Viking type
                        sword.  As to the Viking Practicals, they are boarderline.  If you decide
                        to buy something...  I'm pretty sure that Relicks and Kult of Athena both
                        will test to SCA standards and send you one that meets it...  But you do
                        have to ask them to do that.  No matter who you buy from make sure they
                        test it.  And make sure you test it to Heavy Rapier Standards and not Cut
                        and Thrust.  It would be very unhappy to get one you can't use.  =(

                        On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:

                        > **
                        >
                        >
                        > Greetings!
                        >
                        > I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and
                        > it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse
                        > woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the
                        > tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around $100, and
                        > I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it might
                        > be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know.  If we used a
                        > regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess sticking
                        > horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                        >
                        > I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone has
                        > any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please feel free
                        > to get in touch with me.
                        >
                        > Albrecht
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                        > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Aaron,
                        >
                        > This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much
                        > time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink the
                        > idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own viking-period
                        > equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who put
                        > extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new
                        > equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and buy
                        > hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single event.
                        >
                        > Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which I
                        > fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to buy a
                        > viking sword, buckler etc.
                        >
                        > I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't take
                        > away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.
                        > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                        > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >

                        >



                        --
                        Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                        Historian
                        Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                        1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                        http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                        or
                        as an ebook
                        http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        Yahoo! Groups Links



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Aaron Miedema
                        And what documentation do you have? ... -- Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A. Historian Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 17, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          And what documentation do you have?



                          On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:

                          > **
                          >
                          >
                          > If we could provide documentation of Norse swords longer than 31", would
                          > that be ok?
                          >
                          > Albrecht
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                          > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:52:37 PM
                          >
                          > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                          >
                          > Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient to
                          > get the point. I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not
                          > subjected to negative judgement.
                          >
                          > As to the swords, I'm not opposed to setting conditions of 31" blade or
                          > less, simple straight quillions. as the Requirement for a Viking type
                          > sword. As to the Viking Practicals, they are boarderline. If you decide
                          > to buy something... I'm pretty sure that Relicks and Kult of Athena both
                          > will test to SCA standards and send you one that meets it... But you do
                          > have to ask them to do that. No matter who you buy from make sure they
                          > test it. And make sure you test it to Heavy Rapier Standards and not Cut
                          > and Thrust. It would be very unhappy to get one you can't use. =(
                          >
                          > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Greetings!
                          > >
                          > > I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and
                          > > it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse
                          > > woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the
                          > > tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around $100,
                          > and
                          > > I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it might
                          > > be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know. If we used a
                          > > regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess
                          > sticking
                          > > horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                          > >
                          > > I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone has
                          > > any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please feel
                          > free
                          > > to get in touch with me.
                          > >
                          > > Albrecht
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ________________________________
                          > > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                          > > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                          > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                          > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Hi Aaron,
                          > >
                          > > This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much
                          > > time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink
                          > the
                          > > idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own viking-period
                          > > equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who
                          > put
                          > > extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new
                          > > equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and buy
                          > > hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single
                          > event.
                          > >
                          > > Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which I
                          > > fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to buy
                          > a
                          > > viking sword, buckler etc.
                          > >
                          > > I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't take
                          > > away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.
                          > > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                          > > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                          > >
                          > > ________________________________
                          > >
                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                          > Historian
                          > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                          > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                          >
                          >
                          > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                          > or
                          > as an ebook
                          >
                          > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          --
                          Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                          Historian
                          Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                          1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                          http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                          or
                          as an ebook
                          http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • David Gotlieb
                          Guess its time to pull out the book on viking arms, armour and combat techniques I bought for Avelyn for Christmas. Knew it would be handy, didn t think it
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 17, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Guess its time to pull out the book on viking arms, armour and combat techniques I bought for Avelyn for Christmas. Knew it would be handy, didn't think it would be handy for rapier. :)


                            Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                            Canton of Harrowgate Heath



                            ________________________________
                            From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                            To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 1:34:20 PM
                            Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

                            And what documentation do you have?

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Eve Harris & David Stamper
                            I ve been doing some checking. The longest extant blade I ve been able to find so far is 88 cm (roughly 34 1/2 inches), but my search continues. Albrecht ...
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I've been doing some checking. The longest extant blade I've been able to
                              find so far is 88 cm (roughly 34 1/2 inches), but my search continues.

                              Albrecht


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Aaron Miedema
                              Sent: May 17, 2012 1:34 PM
                              To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

                              And what documentation do you have?



                              On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > If we could provide documentation of Norse swords longer than 31", would
                              > that be ok?
                              >
                              > Albrecht
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                              > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:52:37 PM
                              >
                              > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                              >
                              > Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient to
                              > get the point. I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not
                              > subjected to negative judgement.
                              >
                              > As to the swords, I'm not opposed to setting conditions of 31" blade or
                              > less, simple straight quillions. as the Requirement for a Viking type
                              > sword. As to the Viking Practicals, they are boarderline. If you decide
                              > to buy something... I'm pretty sure that Relicks and Kult of Athena both
                              > will test to SCA standards and send you one that meets it... But you do
                              > have to ask them to do that. No matter who you buy from make sure they
                              > test it. And make sure you test it to Heavy Rapier Standards and not Cut
                              > and Thrust. It would be very unhappy to get one you can't use. =(
                              >
                              > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Greetings!
                              > >
                              > > I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and
                              > > it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse
                              > > woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the
                              > > tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around $100,
                              > and
                              > > I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it
                              might
                              > > be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know. If we used a
                              > > regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess
                              > sticking
                              > > horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                              > >
                              > > I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone has
                              > > any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please feel
                              > free
                              > > to get in touch with me.
                              > >
                              > > Albrecht
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                              > > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                              > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                              > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi Aaron,
                              > >
                              > > This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much
                              > > time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink
                              > the
                              > > idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own
                              viking-period
                              > > equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who
                              > put
                              > > extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new
                              > > equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and
                              buy
                              > > hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single
                              > event.
                              > >
                              > > Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which
                              I
                              > > fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to buy
                              > a
                              > > viking sword, buckler etc.
                              > >
                              > > I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't take
                              > > away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.
                              > > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                              > > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                              > >
                              > > ________________________________
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                              > Historian
                              > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                              Combat
                              > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                              /1107474626
                              > or
                              > as an ebook
                              >
                              >
                              http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                              s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              --
                              Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                              Historian
                              Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                              1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                              http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                              /1107474626
                              or
                              as an ebook
                              http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                              s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Aaron Miedema
                              I see 34 1/2 inches... Can anyone do better on a norse blade length. What is the source of this information Albrecht? On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Eve
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I see 34 1/2 inches... Can anyone do better on a norse blade length.
                                What is the source of this information Albrecht?

                                On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Eve Harris & David Stamper <
                                evedave1@...> wrote:

                                > **
                                >
                                >
                                > I've been doing some checking. The longest extant blade I've been able to
                                > find so far is 88 cm (roughly 34 1/2 inches), but my search continues.
                                >
                                > Albrecht
                                >
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                > Of Aaron Miedema
                                > Sent: May 17, 2012 1:34 PM
                                > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                >
                                > And what documentation do you have?
                                >
                                > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > If we could provide documentation of Norse swords longer than 31", would
                                > > that be ok?
                                > >
                                > > Albrecht
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ________________________________
                                > > From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:52:37 PM
                                > >
                                > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                > >
                                > > Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient to
                                > > get the point. I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not
                                > > subjected to negative judgement.
                                > >
                                > > As to the swords, I'm not opposed to setting conditions of 31" blade or
                                > > less, simple straight quillions. as the Requirement for a Viking type
                                > > sword. As to the Viking Practicals, they are boarderline. If you decide
                                > > to buy something... I'm pretty sure that Relicks and Kult of Athena both
                                > > will test to SCA standards and send you one that meets it... But you do
                                > > have to ask them to do that. No matter who you buy from make sure they
                                > > test it. And make sure you test it to Heavy Rapier Standards and not Cut
                                > > and Thrust. It would be very unhappy to get one you can't use. =(
                                > >
                                > > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > **
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Greetings!
                                > > >
                                > > > I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and
                                > > > it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse
                                > > > woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the
                                > > > tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around $100,
                                > > and
                                > > > I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it
                                > might
                                > > > be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know. If we used a
                                > > > regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess
                                > > sticking
                                > > > horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                                > > >
                                > > > I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone
                                > has
                                > > > any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please feel
                                > > free
                                > > > to get in touch with me.
                                > > >
                                > > > Albrecht
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > ________________________________
                                > > > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                > > > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                                > > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Hi Aaron,
                                > > >
                                > > > This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much
                                > > > time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink
                                > > the
                                > > > idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own
                                > viking-period
                                > > > equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who
                                > > put
                                > > > extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new
                                > > > equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and
                                > buy
                                > > > hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single
                                > > event.
                                > > >
                                > > > Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which
                                > I
                                > > > fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to
                                > buy
                                > > a
                                > > > viking sword, buckler etc.
                                > > >
                                > > > I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't
                                > take
                                > > > away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.
                                > > > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                > > > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                > > >
                                > > > ________________________________
                                > > >
                                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > --
                                > > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                > > Historian
                                > > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                > Combat
                                > > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                > /1107474626
                                > > or
                                > > as an ebook
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                > s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > > ------------------------------------
                                > >
                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                > Historian
                                > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                >
                                > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                > /1107474626
                                > or
                                > as an ebook
                                >
                                > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                > s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >



                                --
                                Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                Historian
                                Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                or
                                as an ebook
                                http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • David Gotlieb
                                I ve seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm with proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series of swords with
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I've seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm with proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series of swords with no proper scale.


                                  Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                  Canton of Harrowgate Heath



                                  ________________________________
                                  From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                  To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:13:58 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

                                  I see 34 1/2 inches...  Can anyone do better on a norse blade length.
                                  What is the source of this information Albrecht?

                                  On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Eve Harris & David Stamper <
                                  evedave1@...> wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I've been doing some checking. The longest extant blade I've been able to
                                  > find so far is 88 cm (roughly 34 1/2 inches), but my search continues.
                                  >
                                  > Albrecht
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  > Of Aaron Miedema
                                  > Sent: May 17, 2012 1:34 PM
                                  > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                  >
                                  > And what documentation do you have?
                                  >
                                  > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > **
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > If we could provide documentation of Norse swords longer than 31", would
                                  > > that be ok?
                                  > >
                                  > > Albrecht
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                  > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:52:37 PM
                                  > >
                                  > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                  > >
                                  > > Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient to
                                  > > get the point. I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not
                                  > > subjected to negative judgement.
                                  > >
                                  > > As to the swords, I'm not opposed to setting conditions of 31" blade or
                                  > > less, simple straight quillions. as the Requirement for a Viking type
                                  > > sword. As to the Viking Practicals, they are boarderline. If you decide
                                  > > to buy something... I'm pretty sure that Relicks and Kult of Athena both
                                  > > will test to SCA standards and send you one that meets it... But you do
                                  > > have to ask them to do that. No matter who you buy from make sure they
                                  > > test it. And make sure you test it to Heavy Rapier Standards and not Cut
                                  > > and Thrust. It would be very unhappy to get one you can't use. =(
                                  > >
                                  > > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > **
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Greetings!
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun and
                                  > > > it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good Norse
                                  > > > woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the
                                  > > > tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around $100,
                                  > > and
                                  > > > I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it
                                  > might
                                  > > > be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know. If we used a
                                  > > > regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess
                                  > > sticking
                                  > > > horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone
                                  > has
                                  > > > any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please feel
                                  > > free
                                  > > > to get in touch with me.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Albrecht
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ________________________________
                                  > > > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                  > > > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                                  > > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Hi Aaron,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this much
                                  > > > time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to rethink
                                  > > the
                                  > > > idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own
                                  > viking-period
                                  > > > equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people who
                                  > > put
                                  > > > extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new
                                  > > > equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and
                                  > buy
                                  > > > hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single
                                  > > event.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme (which
                                  > I
                                  > > > fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to
                                  > buy
                                  > > a
                                  > > > viking sword, buckler etc.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't
                                  > take
                                  > > > away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.
                                  > > > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                  > > > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ________________________________
                                  > > >
                                  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                  > > Historian
                                  > > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                  > Combat
                                  > > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                  > /1107474626
                                  > > or
                                  > > as an ebook
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                  > s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                  > Historian
                                  > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                  > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                  >
                                  > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                  > /1107474626
                                  > or
                                  > as an ebook
                                  >
                                  > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                  > s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >

                                  >



                                  --
                                  Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                  Historian
                                  Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                  1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                  http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                  or
                                  as an ebook
                                  http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                  ------------------------------------

                                  Yahoo! Groups Links



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Aaron Miedema
                                  Well if you share URLs and such like, other people might have differing prespectives to add to solving the question. No point in doing this all in a vaccuum.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Well if you share URLs and such like, other people might have differing
                                    prespectives to add to solving the question. No point in doing this all in
                                    a vaccuum. One of the critical aspects of reseach is to share
                                    your findings, that way other people can build on it. =)

                                    On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...> wrote:

                                    > **
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I've seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm with
                                    > proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series of
                                    > swords with no proper scale.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                    > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                    > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:13:58 AM
                                    >
                                    > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                    >
                                    > I see 34 1/2 inches... Can anyone do better on a norse blade length.
                                    > What is the source of this information Albrecht?
                                    >
                                    > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Eve Harris & David Stamper <
                                    > evedave1@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > **
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I've been doing some checking. The longest extant blade I've been able to
                                    > > find so far is 88 cm (roughly 34 1/2 inches), but my search continues.
                                    > >
                                    > > Albrecht
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > -----Original Message-----
                                    > > From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    > Behalf
                                    > > Of Aaron Miedema
                                    > > Sent: May 17, 2012 1:34 PM
                                    > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                    > >
                                    > > And what documentation do you have?
                                    > >
                                    > > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:17 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > > **
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > If we could provide documentation of Norse swords longer than 31",
                                    > would
                                    > > > that be ok?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Albrecht
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ________________________________
                                    > > > From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                    > > > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:52:37 PM
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Actually Albrecht, sticking horns on your burgonet would be sufficient
                                    > to
                                    > > > get the point. I did observe that mask, gorget, and gloves were not
                                    > > > subjected to negative judgement.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > As to the swords, I'm not opposed to setting conditions of 31" blade or
                                    > > > less, simple straight quillions. as the Requirement for a Viking type
                                    > > > sword. As to the Viking Practicals, they are boarderline. If you decide
                                    > > > to buy something... I'm pretty sure that Relicks and Kult of Athena
                                    > both
                                    > > > will test to SCA standards and send you one that meets it... But you do
                                    > > > have to ask them to do that. No matter who you buy from make sure they
                                    > > > test it. And make sure you test it to Heavy Rapier Standards and not
                                    > Cut
                                    > > > and Thrust. It would be very unhappy to get one you can't use. =(
                                    > > >
                                    > > > On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:36 PM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > > **
                                    > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Greetings!
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I would concur with Dafydd. These events sound like a tonne of fun
                                    > and
                                    > > > > it's pretty easy for me to do Norse stuff (my Lady is a very good
                                    > Norse
                                    > > > > woman and makes spiffy Norse garb), but not everyone can. I think the
                                    > > > > tricky bit is the weapons. The Practical Viking sword runs around
                                    > $100,
                                    > > > and
                                    > > > > I'm not sure where it would fall in the flex test, but I suspect it
                                    > > might
                                    > > > > be C&T only. If this is otherwise, please let me know. If we used a
                                    > > > > regular blade on a simple hilt, would that be appropriate? I guess
                                    > > > sticking
                                    > > > > horns on my burgonet wouldn't help (for multiple reasons)? :)
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I have a fair amount of material on Norse arms and armour. If anyone
                                    > > has
                                    > > > > any questions about what works for norse and what doesn't, please
                                    > feel
                                    > > > free
                                    > > > > to get in touch with me.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Albrecht
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ________________________________
                                    > > > > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                    > > > > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:02:59 PM
                                    > > > > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Hi Aaron,
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > This sounds really interesting and I applaud you for putting this
                                    > much
                                    > > > > time and thought into the tournaments. I would encourage you to
                                    > rethink
                                    > > > the
                                    > > > > idea of penalizing fencers for the fact that they don't own
                                    > > viking-period
                                    > > > > equipment. I have no problem with extra points going towards people
                                    > who
                                    > > > put
                                    > > > > extra effort in (by making Viking fencing garb or even purchasing new
                                    > > > > equipment), but I don't think its fair to expect people to go out and
                                    > > buy
                                    > > > > hundreds of dollars of equipment in order to participate in a single
                                    > > > event.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > Basically, your effort to get people to participate in the theme
                                    > (which
                                    > > I
                                    > > > > fully applaud) ends up penalizing people who don't have the money to
                                    > > buy
                                    > > > a
                                    > > > > viking sword, buckler etc.
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > I would suggest giving bonus points for the extra effort, but don't
                                    > > take
                                    > > > > away points for those who don't have viking gear available to them.
                                    > > > > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                    > > > > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > ________________________________
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --
                                    > > > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                    > > > Historian
                                    > > > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                    > > Combat
                                    > > > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                    > > /1107474626
                                    > > > or
                                    > > > as an ebook
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                    > > s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > > ------------------------------------
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > --
                                    > > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                    > > Historian
                                    > > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                    > Combat
                                    > > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                    > > /1107474626
                                    > > or
                                    > > as an ebook
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                    > > s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > > ------------------------------------
                                    > >
                                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                    > Historian
                                    > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                    > 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                    >
                                    > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                    > or
                                    > as an ebook
                                    >
                                    > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    --
                                    Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                    Historian
                                    Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                    1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                    or
                                    as an ebook
                                    http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • David Gotlieb
                                    Here s the URL. The ref to sword lengths is about 1/4 of the way down the page. Wouldn t even ciount this as a tertiary source given they don t document any of
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Here's the URL. The ref to sword lengths is about 1/4 of the way down the page. Wouldn't even ciount this as a tertiary source given they don't document any of the statements. But its a start.
                                       
                                      http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_sword.htm

                                      Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                      Canton of Harrowgate Heath



                                      ________________________________
                                      From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                      To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:47:41 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

                                      Well if you share URLs and such like, other people might have differing
                                      prespectives to add to solving the question.  No point in doing this all in
                                      a vaccuum.  One of the critical aspects of reseach is to share
                                      your findings, that way other people can build on it.  =)

                                      On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...> wrote:

                                      > **
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > I've seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm with
                                      > proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series of
                                      > swords with no proper scale.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                      > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                      >
                                      > ________________________________

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Aaron Miedema
                                      If I were to hazard aq guess, I d say it is likely the Petersen 1919 source.... Found the original on line.... anyone no anyone with capacity with
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        If I were to hazard aq guess, I'd say it is likely the Petersen 1919
                                        source.... Found the original on line.... anyone no anyone with capacity
                                        with Norwegian?

                                        http://www.scribd.com/doc/43736258/Petersen-Jan-1919-De-Norske-Vikingesverd-En-Typologisk-Kronologisk-Studie-Over-Vikingetidens-Vaaben

                                        And there seems to be some English reference here.

                                        On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:53 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...> wrote:

                                        > **
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Here's the URL. The ref to sword lengths is about 1/4 of the way down the
                                        > page. Wouldn't even ciount this as a tertiary source given they don't
                                        > document any of the statements. But its a start.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_sword.htm
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                        > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                        >
                                        > ________________________________
                                        > From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                        > To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:47:41 AM
                                        >
                                        > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                        >
                                        > Well if you share URLs and such like, other people might have differing
                                        > prespectives to add to solving the question. No point in doing this all in
                                        > a vaccuum. One of the critical aspects of reseach is to share
                                        > your findings, that way other people can build on it. =)
                                        >
                                        > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > **
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > I've seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm with
                                        > > proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series of
                                        > > swords with no proper scale.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                        > > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                        > >
                                        > > ________________________________
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >



                                        --
                                        Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                        Historian
                                        Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                        1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                        http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                        or
                                        as an ebook
                                        http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Aaron Miedema
                                        http://www.vikingsword.com/petersen/index.html Oops ... -- Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A. Historian Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian
                                        Message 19 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          http://www.vikingsword.com/petersen/index.html
                                          Oops



                                          On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:

                                          > If I were to hazard aq guess, I'd say it is likely the Petersen 1919
                                          > source.... Found the original on line.... anyone no anyone with capacity
                                          > with Norwegian?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > http://www.scribd.com/doc/43736258/Petersen-Jan-1919-De-Norske-Vikingesverd-En-Typologisk-Kronologisk-Studie-Over-Vikingetidens-Vaaben
                                          >
                                          > And there seems to be some English reference here.
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:53 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> **
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Here's the URL. The ref to sword lengths is about 1/4 of the way down the
                                          >> page. Wouldn't even ciount this as a tertiary source given they don't
                                          >> document any of the statements. But its a start.
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_sword.htm
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                          >> Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                          >>
                                          >> ________________________________
                                          >> From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                          >> To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                          >> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:47:41 AM
                                          >>
                                          >> Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                          >>
                                          >> Well if you share URLs and such like, other people might have differing
                                          >> prespectives to add to solving the question. No point in doing this all
                                          >> in
                                          >> a vaccuum. One of the critical aspects of reseach is to share
                                          >> your findings, that way other people can build on it. =)
                                          >>
                                          >> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                          >> wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >> > **
                                          >>
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> > I've seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm
                                          >> with
                                          >> > proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series of
                                          >> > swords with no proper scale.
                                          >> >
                                          >> >
                                          >> > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                          >> > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                          >> >
                                          >> > ________________________________
                                          >>
                                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                          > Historian
                                          > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                          > Combat 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                          > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626 or
                                          > as an ebook
                                          > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                          >
                                          >


                                          --
                                          Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                          Historian
                                          Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                          1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                          http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                          or
                                          as an ebook
                                          http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • David Gotlieb
                                          Here s details of a viking era sword found in a private collection that measures 103 cm total. Blade is 88 cm, so may be the one Albrecht is referring to.
                                          Message 20 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Here's details of a viking era sword found in a private collection that measures 103 cm total. Blade is 88 cm, so may be the one Albrecht is referring to.
                                            http://www.vikingsword.com/vmuseum/vmh1.html

                                            Finding lots of references to the fact that swords became longer and heavier as we get later into the viking period, so I think it depends on what age you are looking at.
                                             
                                            Didn't have a chance to root through my books at home last night, went to practice instead. :) Maybe over the weekend.

                                            Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                            Canton of Harrowgate Heath


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • EVE HARRIS
                                            That is the one. I was just looking it up again when I saw your post.   Albrecht   ________________________________ From: David Gotlieb
                                            Message 21 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              That is the one. I was just looking it up again when I saw your post.
                                               
                                              Albrecht
                                               


                                              ________________________________
                                              From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                              To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                              Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:05:49 AM
                                              Subject: [E_Rapier] Viking swords: was War of the Trilliums



                                               

                                              Here's details of a viking era sword found in a private collection that measures 103 cm total. Blade is 88 cm, so may be the one Albrecht is referring to.
                                              http://www.vikingsword.com/vmuseum/vmh1.html

                                              Finding lots of references to the fact that swords became longer and heavier as we get later into the viking period, so I think it depends on what age you are looking at.
                                               
                                              Didn't have a chance to root through my books at home last night, went to practice instead. :) Maybe over the weekend.

                                              Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                              Canton of Harrowgate Heath

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Aaron Miedema
                                              OK. Did some more digging... Petersen states: Recently *Universitetets Oldtidssamling* [University Museum of Antiquities in Oslo] has received the longest
                                              Message 22 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                OK. Did some more digging... Petersen states: "Recently *Universitetets
                                                Oldtidssamling* [University Museum of Antiquities in Oslo] has received the
                                                longest blade from the Viking Age at 90.7 cm..." The 100cm picture would
                                                likely be a sword that was shorter than that, as 10cm would be a little too
                                                short for a guard, grip, and pommel. Of course that is from 1919 so it
                                                possible there has been a different find, but until that is found, I'll go
                                                with Petersen as the authority. That makes 35.7" the longest lenghth,
                                                rounded up to 36".

                                                On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:

                                                > http://www.vikingsword.com/petersen/index.html
                                                > Oops
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>wrote:
                                                >
                                                >> If I were to hazard aq guess, I'd say it is likely the Petersen 1919
                                                >> source.... Found the original on line.... anyone no anyone with capacity
                                                >> with Norwegian?
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> http://www.scribd.com/doc/43736258/Petersen-Jan-1919-De-Norske-Vikingesverd-En-Typologisk-Kronologisk-Studie-Over-Vikingetidens-Vaaben
                                                >>
                                                >> And there seems to be some English reference here.
                                                >>
                                                >> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:53 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>wrote:
                                                >>
                                                >>> **
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Here's the URL. The ref to sword lengths is about 1/4 of the way down
                                                >>> the page. Wouldn't even ciount this as a tertiary source given they don't
                                                >>> document any of the statements. But its a start.
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>> http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_sword.htm
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                                >>> Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                                >>>
                                                >>> ________________________________
                                                >>> From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                                >>> To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                                >>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:47:41 AM
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                                >>>
                                                >>> Well if you share URLs and such like, other people might have differing
                                                >>> prespectives to add to solving the question. No point in doing this all
                                                >>> in
                                                >>> a vaccuum. One of the critical aspects of reseach is to share
                                                >>> your findings, that way other people can build on it. =)
                                                >>>
                                                >>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                                >>> wrote:
                                                >>>
                                                >>> > **
                                                >>>
                                                >>> >
                                                >>> >
                                                >>> > I've seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm
                                                >>> with
                                                >>> > proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series of
                                                >>> > swords with no proper scale.
                                                >>> >
                                                >>> >
                                                >>> > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                                >>> > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                                >>> >
                                                >>> > ________________________________
                                                >>>
                                                >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >> --
                                                >> Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                                >> Historian
                                                >> Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                                >> Combat 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                                >> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626 or
                                                >> as an ebook
                                                >> http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                                >>
                                                >>
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --
                                                > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                                > Historian
                                                > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                                > Combat 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                                > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626 or
                                                > as an ebook
                                                > http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                                >
                                                >


                                                --
                                                Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                                Historian
                                                Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                                1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                                http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                                or
                                                as an ebook
                                                http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • EVE HARRIS
                                                I have half a dozen books on Viking stuff, and they all talk about hilts and decorations, but there seems to be a scarcity of information on blade lengths.
                                                Message 23 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  I have half a dozen books on Viking stuff, and they all talk about hilts and decorations, but there seems to be a scarcity of information on blade lengths. 31-33 inches seems to be the average, at least for earlier period blades.
                                                   
                                                  Albrecht
                                                   


                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...>
                                                  To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:10:49 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Viking swords: was War of the Trilliums



                                                   

                                                  That is the one. I was just looking it up again when I saw your post.
                                                   
                                                  Albrecht
                                                   


                                                  ________________________________
                                                  From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                                  To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:05:49 AM
                                                  Subject: [E_Rapier] Viking swords: was War of the Trilliums


                                                   

                                                  Here's details of a viking era sword found in a private collection that measures 103 cm total. Blade is 88 cm, so may be the one Albrecht is referring to.
                                                  http://www.vikingsword.com/vmuseum/vmh1.html

                                                  Finding lots of references to the fact that swords became longer and heavier as we get later into the viking period, so I think it depends on what age you are looking at.
                                                   
                                                  Didn't have a chance to root through my books at home last night, went to practice instead. :) Maybe over the weekend.

                                                  Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                                  Canton of Harrowgate Heath

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Eve Harris & David Stamper
                                                  Damn, my sword missed by an inch. Oh well. Albrecht ... From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Miedema Sent: May
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Damn, my sword missed by an inch. Oh well.

                                                    Albrecht


                                                    -----Original Message-----
                                                    From: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                    Of Aaron Miedema
                                                    Sent: May 18, 2012 11:16 AM
                                                    To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums

                                                    OK. Did some more digging... Petersen states: "Recently *Universitetets
                                                    Oldtidssamling* [University Museum of Antiquities in Oslo] has received the
                                                    longest blade from the Viking Age at 90.7 cm..." The 100cm picture would
                                                    likely be a sword that was shorter than that, as 10cm would be a little too
                                                    short for a guard, grip, and pommel. Of course that is from 1919 so it
                                                    possible there has been a different find, but until that is found, I'll go
                                                    with Petersen as the authority. That makes 35.7" the longest lenghth,
                                                    rounded up to 36".

                                                    On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...> wrote:

                                                    > http://www.vikingsword.com/petersen/index.html
                                                    > Oops
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >> If I were to hazard aq guess, I'd say it is likely the Petersen 1919
                                                    >> source.... Found the original on line.... anyone no anyone with
                                                    capacity
                                                    >> with Norwegian?
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    http://www.scribd.com/doc/43736258/Petersen-Jan-1919-De-Norske-Vikingesverd-
                                                    En-Typologisk-Kronologisk-Studie-Over-Vikingetidens-Vaaben
                                                    >>
                                                    >> And there seems to be some English reference here.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:53 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>wrote:
                                                    >>
                                                    >>> **
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> Here's the URL. The ref to sword lengths is about 1/4 of the way down
                                                    >>> the page. Wouldn't even ciount this as a tertiary source given they
                                                    don't
                                                    >>> document any of the statements. But its a start.
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_sword.htm
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                                    >>> Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> ________________________________
                                                    >>> From: Aaron Miedema <govianus@...>
                                                    >>> To: E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com
                                                    >>> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:47:41 AM
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] War of the Trilliums
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> Well if you share URLs and such like, other people might have differing
                                                    >>> prespectives to add to solving the question. No point in doing this all
                                                    >>> in
                                                    >>> a vaccuum. One of the critical aspects of reseach is to share
                                                    >>> your findings, that way other people can build on it. =)
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 10:43 AM, David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                                    >>> wrote:
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> > **
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> >
                                                    >>> >
                                                    >>> > I've seen an online reference to 100 cm but still working to confirm
                                                    >>> with
                                                    >>> > proper documentation. Unfortunately it was just an image of a series
                                                    of
                                                    >>> > swords with no proper scale.
                                                    >>> >
                                                    >>> >
                                                    >>> > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                                    >>> > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                                    >>> >
                                                    >>> > ________________________________
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >> --
                                                    >> Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                                    >> Historian
                                                    >> Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                                    >> Combat 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                                    >>
                                                    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                                    /1107474626 or
                                                    >> as an ebook
                                                    >>
                                                    http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                                    s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                                    >>
                                                    >>
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                                    > Historian
                                                    > Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close
                                                    > Combat 1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                                    >
                                                    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                                    /1107474626 or
                                                    > as an ebook
                                                    >
                                                    http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                                    s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html
                                                    >
                                                    >


                                                    --
                                                    Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                                    Historian
                                                    Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                                    1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                                    http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema
                                                    /1107474626
                                                    or
                                                    as an ebook
                                                    http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonet
                                                    s-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                                    ------------------------------------

                                                    Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  • Aaron Miedema
                                                    Well, the theme was Viking.... no specification as to date.... so early or late... I am not going to be THAT particular... The longest Viking sword
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , May 18, 2012
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Well, the theme was Viking.... no specification as to date.... so early
                                                      or late... I am not going to be THAT particular... The longest Viking
                                                      sword according to Petersen is 35.7" which I'm willing to round up to 36".
                                                      Now if people want to start examining the width of quillions, that would be
                                                      helpful too.

                                                      On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...> wrote:

                                                      > **
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > I have half a dozen books on Viking stuff, and they all talk about hilts
                                                      > and decorations, but there seems to be a scarcity of information on blade
                                                      > lengths. 31-33 inches seems to be the average, at least for earlier period
                                                      > blades.
                                                      >
                                                      > Albrecht
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ________________________________
                                                      > From: EVE HARRIS <evedave1@...>
                                                      > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:10:49 AM
                                                      > Subject: Re: [E_Rapier] Viking swords: was War of the Trilliums
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > That is the one. I was just looking it up again when I saw your post.
                                                      >
                                                      > Albrecht
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > ________________________________
                                                      > From: David Gotlieb <dafydd@...>
                                                      > To: "E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com" <E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com>
                                                      > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:05:49 AM
                                                      > Subject: [E_Rapier] Viking swords: was War of the Trilliums
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Here's details of a viking era sword found in a private collection that
                                                      > measures 103 cm total. Blade is 88 cm, so may be the one Albrecht is
                                                      > referring to.
                                                      > http://www.vikingsword.com/vmuseum/vmh1.html
                                                      >
                                                      > Finding lots of references to the fact that swords became longer and
                                                      > heavier as we get later into the viking period, so I think it depends on
                                                      > what age you are looking at.
                                                      >
                                                      > Didn't have a chance to root through my books at home last night, went to
                                                      > practice instead. :) Maybe over the weekend.
                                                      >
                                                      > Lord Dafydd ap Alan (MKA David Gotlieb)
                                                      > Canton of Harrowgate Heath
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >



                                                      --
                                                      Aaron Miedema, B.F.A., B.A., M.A.
                                                      Historian
                                                      Author of *Bayonets and Blobsticks, The Canadian Experience of Close Combat
                                                      1915-1918*, available from Legacy Books Press.
                                                      http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/bayonets-and-blobsticks-aaron-taylor-miedema/1107474626
                                                      or
                                                      as an ebook
                                                      http://www.diesel-ebooks.com/item/9780988019218/Miedema-Aaron-Taylor-Bayonets-and-Blobsticks-The-Canadian-Experience-of-Close-Combat-1915-1918/1.html


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