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Re: Letter about gorgets...

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  • Yvonne
    The current rules as defined only protect the gorge and C5,C6 vertebrae from crushing damage. Having spoken with Dr. Bill, Baron Don Giovanni, the KRM of
    Message 1 of 51 , May 11, 2010
      The current rules as defined only protect the gorge and C5,C6 vertebrae from crushing damage.

      Having spoken with Dr. Bill, Baron Don Giovanni, the KRM of Trimarais, who is also an ER doctor by profession; I know that it is felt the caroditid artries also require protection(sides of the neck), hence the review of more rigid material around the neck. The thought is to provide protection to those artires from crushing damage( accidents happen).

      I agree with this level of protection and currently wear a full metal gorget.

      Jocelyn

      --- In E_Rapier@yahoogroups.com, Ross Weaver <ross.weaver@...> wrote:
      >
      > I've typed this letter up about possible changes to the gorget rules,
      > I'm going to send it to Albretch and the Society rapier marshal. What
      > do people think of the letter, any feed back from other marshals? Is
      > anyone else with me on not stopping a proposed rule change? If so let
      > me know, I can add you to the list of concerned marshals, OR send your
      > letter (which will have more impact).
      > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > I found out that it was going to be proposed that the rules on gorgets
      > be changed to require rigid protection all the way arround the neck
      > (the wording given to me was 95% coverage). The current rule is:
      >
      > For heavy rapier and cut and thrust rapier, additional throat
      > protection is required; it shall consist of rigid material, as noted
      > above, covering the entire throat, and shall be backed by either
      > puncture resistant material (as a hood), one quarter inch (1/4") (6
      > mm) of open-cell foam, or their equivalents. The cervical vertebrae
      > shall also be protected by rigid material, provided by some
      > combination of gorget, helm, and/or hood insert.
      >
      > I have been fencing with heavy rapier for 15 years in the SCA, and
      > participated in Cut and Thrust since the start of the experiment. And
      > I feel absolutely safe with only by throat and vertebrae having rigid
      > coverage. I find the sides of my neck are more than protected enough
      > by resistant material (in my case it is soft leather and a cowl). I
      > don't feel there is a large enough risk to the side of my neck to
      > require more protection. First the chance of being hit there is much
      > lower than say the throat. Second the risk to myself is much lower
      > (we are looking at tendons and muscles, not an airway and blood
      > vessels and veins like the throat).
      >
      > As an engineer I don't see requiring rigid protection on the side of
      > the neck making any noticeable reduction in risk for SCA heavy rapier.
      > There are several other locations on the body where a hard hit, with
      > or without a tip will do more damage than the side of the neck, and
      > they are not covered with rigid protection, and they are far more
      > likely to be hit than the side of the neck. If SCA inc. does not feel
      > it necessary to increase protection elsewhere to reduce risk, than
      > there is no need to require additional protection on the neck.
      >
      > From the description of what was going to be legal after the changes
      > the choice of legal gorgets goes down and options on design goes down
      > as well. In many ways it makes it much more difficult for a new
      > combatant to make their own gorgets and pretty much requires that
      > gorgets be made by professional or semi-professional armourers, or at
      > least people with access to a well stocked shops. This will create a
      > larger barrier to new people, and honestly we have a hard enough time
      > getting new SCA members, let alone rapier combatants.
      >
      > When considering increasing the requirements for neck protection
      > please consider:
      > 1. Have there been any critical injuries to the side of a SCA heavy
      > rapier combatants neck?
      > 2. What are trying to protect against? What kind of hit? How likely
      > is that hit? Is the risk only if there is a broken blade or is the
      > risk in normal combat? (I feel that rigid protection is necessary if
      > there is a risk of significant injury with a normal blunted and tipped
      > blade.)
      > 3. Does this truly reduce the risks associated with rapier combat?
      > Or does it just look like a significant reduction in risk?
      > 4. How much will this inconvenient current participants (replacing
      > gorgets, changing their kit)? Does this create a larger barrier to
      > entry for participants?
      >
      > Please consider all of this. When I was KRM of Ealdormere a previous
      > KRM gave me one piece of advice that I found very valuable and one of
      > the greatest guides on improving rapier in Ealdormere (and I have been
      > told I did make a significant impact and improvements). "Don't change
      > a rule for the sake of changing a rule. If nothing is gained by
      > changing it, then you are only losing opportunities."
      >
      > I used this guideline, often, looking at what is really gained by a
      > rule change, versus what can be lost. It is amazing how often you can
      > realize a proposed rule change or policy change really is only placebo
      > that does nothing when you weigh things out first, and you can save a
      > lot of time, effort and stress not trying to changes things that don't
      > need changing.
      >
      > I feel nothing is really gained by changing the rules on neck
      > protection, we only lose opportunities and create larger barriers for
      > new people.
      >
      > In Service,
      > The Honourable Lord Wilhelm von Pottruff,
      > SCA Rapier Marshal
      >
    • Kathleen Gormanshaw
      ... hmm... oh yeah, both cards are blue! ... While lots of dummys are available, finding a way to simulate the neck underneath is harder. ... Sure :-) Though
      Message 51 of 51 , May 12, 2010
        On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 3:18 PM, M <menzinas@...> wrote:
        >> > I can't go around strangling members of my Barony! For any reason. Even educational ones.
        >> You don't have to strangle him to death, just a little demonstration.
        >
        > That is the 'Society for Consenting Adults' not 'Society for Creative Anacronism' don't get them confused.

        hmm... oh yeah, both cards are blue!

        > How about a mythbuster's approch? Put the gorget(s) on a dummy and wack the dummy with a sword?

        While lots of dummys are available, finding a way to simulate the neck
        underneath is harder.

        > ps wanna wrestle?

        Sure :-) Though my impression is that you're learning to fight,
        unlike judo which is very much a sport.

        Eyrny
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