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Re: [EKSouth] Fwd: [Announcements] Pennsic 35 Chirurgeon Activities

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  • Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
    ... It s worth noting that the Pennsic Independent article states that this decision was not made in response to any breach of SCA policy or local laws, so I,
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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      On Aug 15, 2006, at 2:49 PM, Allison263@... wrote:

      > Greetings,
      >
      > I'm coming late to this discussion. What "incidents" are they
      > referring to?
      > Does anyone know what happened to cause the EMS to take over?
      >
      > Gabrielle

      It's worth noting that the Pennsic Independent article states that
      this decision was not made in response to any breach of SCA policy or
      local laws, so I, too, am really curious.

      Adamantius
    • Lisa Soto
      Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there was an incident with someone s medical care, that could be (a) legally actionable and (b)
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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        Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there
        was an incident with someone's medical care, that could be (a) legally
        actionable and (b) none of
        your damned business, honestly.

        I'm not at Pennsic, and am not part of the Chiurgeonate, but I do hold
        (expired) NYS-EMT-CC certifications.

        So far as previous "legal" comments have been made, I've always
        wondered under what medical direction the Chiurgeonate operates. EMTs
        and first aiders are not licensed -- they are certified, which means
        that a licensed medical professional has to be giving them directives
        for care and assuming the risks inherent in their operation.

        Catrina ab Aqua
        House Three Skulls
        An Dubhaigheann
        East Kingdom
        mka Lisa Soto

        On 8/15/06, Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
        <adamantius.magister@...> wrote:
        >
        > On Aug 15, 2006, at 2:49 PM, Allison263@... wrote:
        >
        > > Greetings,
        > >
        > > I'm coming late to this discussion. What "incidents" are they
        > > referring to?
        > > Does anyone know what happened to cause the EMS to take over?
        > >
        > > Gabrielle
        >
        > It's worth noting that the Pennsic Independent article states that
        > this decision was not made in response to any breach of SCA policy or
        > local laws, so I, too, am really curious.
        >
        > Adamantius
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        --
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Lisa Soto eris235@...
        "All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a
        philosopher." -Ambrose Bierce, writer (1842-1914)
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      • sgtgeorgecarter
        ... No one has to know the specifics. They need only know if there was an overstepping of bounds or an overwhelming number of cases out of the scope of first
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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          On 8/15/06, Lisa Soto <eris235@...> wrote:
          >

          > Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there
          > was an incident with someone's medical care, that could be (a) legally
          > actionable and (b) none of
          > your damned business, honestly.

          No one has to know the specifics. They need only know if there was an
          overstepping of bounds or an overwhelming number of cases out of the
          scope of first aid or aliens stole half the chrirugonate or something.

          People overreact to mysteries and this missive wasn't worded very well
          to avoid people overreacting.

          Tauna
        • Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
          ... All true. All sorts of things could be true. However, what the Pennsic Independent said was true, allegedly after having their story ... Nobody had to
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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            On Aug 15, 2006, at 4:01 PM, sgtgeorgecarter wrote:

            > On 8/15/06, Lisa Soto <eris235@...> wrote:
            >>
            >
            >> Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there
            >> was an incident with someone's medical care, that could be (a)
            >> legally
            >> actionable and (b) none of your damned business, honestly.

            All true. All sorts of things could be true. However, what the
            Pennsic Independent said was true, allegedly after having their story
            reviewed by Pennsic autocrat staff, was:

            > Responding to written questions submitted through Master Corun,
            > Pennsic 35 Mayor Baroness Mistress Brise Sanguin on Saturday
            > declined to elaborate at that time as to why the changes were made
            > at Chirurgeon’s Point, but did say that no particular SCA policy or
            > procedure was violated to precipitate the action, and that all
            > proper policies and procedures were followed.

            Nobody had to volunteer this information if there were incidents that
            were potentially actionable or nobody's damned business.

            > No one has to know the specifics. They need only know if there was an
            > overstepping of bounds or an overwhelming number of cases out of the
            > scope of first aid or aliens stole half the chrirugonate or something.
            >
            > People overreact to mysteries and this missive wasn't worded very well
            > to avoid people overreacting.

            I recall thinking, when I heard about this, that yes, there probably
            _are_ cases where the police come to a person's home in the middle of
            the night and drag him off with a black bag over his head in an
            unmarked car, where an actual crime has been committed by the
            suspect, but it is a perfectly reasonable part of human nature to
            suspect something is wrong with the picture.

            It is because I really do want to believe in the people that run our
            wars and such that I had hoped for a somewhat better quality of
            information, but it's true, we can't really compel any degree of
            accountability beyond a certain, very basic level. All we can do is
            choose not to participate, or volunteer and do things differently
            ourselves.

            Adamantius
          • DonCunning
            ... EMTs and first aiders are not licensed -- they are certified, which means that a licensed medical professional has to be giving them directives for care
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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              --- Lisa Soto <eris235@...> wrote:

              EMTs and first aiders are not licensed -- they are
              certified, which means that a licensed medical
              professional has to be giving them directives for care
              and assuming the risks inherent in their operation.
              ------------------------------------------------------

              Response:

              Its always been my understanding that the chiurgeonate
              operated under the good samaritan laws meaning- no
              expectation of being paid and acting within ones
              training, certification and scope of practice and a
              clearly defined scenario of no "DUTY TO ACT". The
              "Duty to Act" rule is covered at least in NYS EMT and
              Paramedic training courses (of which I am a graduate
              of both) and generally states that if you are on duty
              (usually means and getting paid, BUT, in this new
              scenario having a paid professional corps overseeing
              all first aid activity I am no longer sure) you have a
              legal resposibility to respond to and treat medical
              situations as told to you or observed. This is 2
              edged and is ALSO meant to protect those with licenses
              or certifications from lawsuits...if you are a doctor
              etc. and are driving down the road and happen to miss
              that someone is lying in the street you are protected
              (or for that matter a chirugeon who happens to be
              totally smashed but is off shift lol).

              AEthelstan
              Stan Cohen



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