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Re: [EKSouth] Fwd: [Announcements] Pennsic 35 Chirurgeon Activities

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  • Allison263@aol.com
    Greetings, I m coming late to this discussion. What incidents are they referring to? Does anyone know what happened to cause the EMS to take over? Gabrielle
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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      Greetings,

      I'm coming late to this discussion. What "incidents" are they referring to?
      Does anyone know what happened to cause the EMS to take over?

      Gabrielle
    • Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
      ... It s worth noting that the Pennsic Independent article states that this decision was not made in response to any breach of SCA policy or local laws, so I,
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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        On Aug 15, 2006, at 2:49 PM, Allison263@... wrote:

        > Greetings,
        >
        > I'm coming late to this discussion. What "incidents" are they
        > referring to?
        > Does anyone know what happened to cause the EMS to take over?
        >
        > Gabrielle

        It's worth noting that the Pennsic Independent article states that
        this decision was not made in response to any breach of SCA policy or
        local laws, so I, too, am really curious.

        Adamantius
      • Lisa Soto
        Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there was an incident with someone s medical care, that could be (a) legally actionable and (b)
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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          Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there
          was an incident with someone's medical care, that could be (a) legally
          actionable and (b) none of
          your damned business, honestly.

          I'm not at Pennsic, and am not part of the Chiurgeonate, but I do hold
          (expired) NYS-EMT-CC certifications.

          So far as previous "legal" comments have been made, I've always
          wondered under what medical direction the Chiurgeonate operates. EMTs
          and first aiders are not licensed -- they are certified, which means
          that a licensed medical professional has to be giving them directives
          for care and assuming the risks inherent in their operation.

          Catrina ab Aqua
          House Three Skulls
          An Dubhaigheann
          East Kingdom
          mka Lisa Soto

          On 8/15/06, Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
          <adamantius.magister@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Aug 15, 2006, at 2:49 PM, Allison263@... wrote:
          >
          > > Greetings,
          > >
          > > I'm coming late to this discussion. What "incidents" are they
          > > referring to?
          > > Does anyone know what happened to cause the EMS to take over?
          > >
          > > Gabrielle
          >
          > It's worth noting that the Pennsic Independent article states that
          > this decision was not made in response to any breach of SCA policy or
          > local laws, so I, too, am really curious.
          >
          > Adamantius
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Lisa Soto eris235@...
          "All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a
          philosopher." -Ambrose Bierce, writer (1842-1914)
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        • sgtgeorgecarter
          ... No one has to know the specifics. They need only know if there was an overstepping of bounds or an overwhelming number of cases out of the scope of first
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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            On 8/15/06, Lisa Soto <eris235@...> wrote:
            >

            > Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there
            > was an incident with someone's medical care, that could be (a) legally
            > actionable and (b) none of
            > your damned business, honestly.

            No one has to know the specifics. They need only know if there was an
            overstepping of bounds or an overwhelming number of cases out of the
            scope of first aid or aliens stole half the chrirugonate or something.

            People overreact to mysteries and this missive wasn't worded very well
            to avoid people overreacting.

            Tauna
          • Phil Troy / G. Tacitus Adamantius
            ... All true. All sorts of things could be true. However, what the Pennsic Independent said was true, allegedly after having their story ... Nobody had to
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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              On Aug 15, 2006, at 4:01 PM, sgtgeorgecarter wrote:

              > On 8/15/06, Lisa Soto <eris235@...> wrote:
              >>
              >
              >> Your curiosity does not justify a breach of confidentiality. If there
              >> was an incident with someone's medical care, that could be (a)
              >> legally
              >> actionable and (b) none of your damned business, honestly.

              All true. All sorts of things could be true. However, what the
              Pennsic Independent said was true, allegedly after having their story
              reviewed by Pennsic autocrat staff, was:

              > Responding to written questions submitted through Master Corun,
              > Pennsic 35 Mayor Baroness Mistress Brise Sanguin on Saturday
              > declined to elaborate at that time as to why the changes were made
              > at Chirurgeon’s Point, but did say that no particular SCA policy or
              > procedure was violated to precipitate the action, and that all
              > proper policies and procedures were followed.

              Nobody had to volunteer this information if there were incidents that
              were potentially actionable or nobody's damned business.

              > No one has to know the specifics. They need only know if there was an
              > overstepping of bounds or an overwhelming number of cases out of the
              > scope of first aid or aliens stole half the chrirugonate or something.
              >
              > People overreact to mysteries and this missive wasn't worded very well
              > to avoid people overreacting.

              I recall thinking, when I heard about this, that yes, there probably
              _are_ cases where the police come to a person's home in the middle of
              the night and drag him off with a black bag over his head in an
              unmarked car, where an actual crime has been committed by the
              suspect, but it is a perfectly reasonable part of human nature to
              suspect something is wrong with the picture.

              It is because I really do want to believe in the people that run our
              wars and such that I had hoped for a somewhat better quality of
              information, but it's true, we can't really compel any degree of
              accountability beyond a certain, very basic level. All we can do is
              choose not to participate, or volunteer and do things differently
              ourselves.

              Adamantius
            • DonCunning
              ... EMTs and first aiders are not licensed -- they are certified, which means that a licensed medical professional has to be giving them directives for care
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 15, 2006
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                --- Lisa Soto <eris235@...> wrote:

                EMTs and first aiders are not licensed -- they are
                certified, which means that a licensed medical
                professional has to be giving them directives for care
                and assuming the risks inherent in their operation.
                ------------------------------------------------------

                Response:

                Its always been my understanding that the chiurgeonate
                operated under the good samaritan laws meaning- no
                expectation of being paid and acting within ones
                training, certification and scope of practice and a
                clearly defined scenario of no "DUTY TO ACT". The
                "Duty to Act" rule is covered at least in NYS EMT and
                Paramedic training courses (of which I am a graduate
                of both) and generally states that if you are on duty
                (usually means and getting paid, BUT, in this new
                scenario having a paid professional corps overseeing
                all first aid activity I am no longer sure) you have a
                legal resposibility to respond to and treat medical
                situations as told to you or observed. This is 2
                edged and is ALSO meant to protect those with licenses
                or certifications from lawsuits...if you are a doctor
                etc. and are driving down the road and happen to miss
                that someone is lying in the street you are protected
                (or for that matter a chirugeon who happens to be
                totally smashed but is off shift lol).

                AEthelstan
                Stan Cohen



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