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So, why are you in the SCA?

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  • Mary Higgins
    As Ana bhecc inghean ui Fearghail so eloquently pointed out, we should remember why we are in the SCA. So, I pose the question to any who care to answer - why
    Message 1 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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      As Ana bhecc inghean ui Fearghail so eloquently pointed out, we should
      remember why we are in the SCA. So, I pose the question to any who care to
      answer - why are you in the SCA? Even if you've been in for two weeks, you
      probably have some things to contribute!

      Not being one to throw out a question without being willing to give my own
      response, here are my thoughts on the subject:

      I got into the SCA when I was in college - some 15 plus years ago. What I
      found first was a place in which an introverted young lady could learn to
      play at the art of flirtation (and a whole slew of other arts and sciences)
      in a relatively safe environment while gathering a lot of positive
      reinforcement from the attentive men in the group. Being valued simply for
      who I was and NOT what I could do for anyone was amazing. Having relative
      strangers express their concern over my happiness, my "fun quotiant" and my
      general well being was amazing to me and provided a very solid foundation
      for my now very intact self image. The generosity of the people that I met
      amazed me. I learned to accept a compliment graciously. I learned to give
      a heartfelt and graceful compliment. I learned to run events with a budget
      in the thousands of dollars at an age where most of us can't fathem that
      much money. I learned to see things that needed to be done and took pride
      in figuring out how to get them done before too many other people had
      noticed the gap. I learned management and people skills that helped me go
      on to be very successful in my modern career. And I made friends. Life
      long, can't imagine my life without 'em, friends.

      I also partook of the veritable smorgasboard of "stuff" to be learned and
      shared through the SCA. Yes, I could join a recorder society, a needlework
      society, a C&I society, etc. Or, I can join the SCA and get it all with no
      pressure to do more than I want to with each new skill.

      Ultimately, what has kept me coming back to the SCA, desprite moves to four
      (very different) kingdoms in five (equally different)states, is the people.
      In any group there will be the "walking fun voids" who live to cause
      turmoil. But, then there are the other 99.9% of people who are there for
      all of the good reasons to be part of an organization such as this one and
      on a daily basis represent the ideals of the organization.

      SCA people are unique and once you've gotten used to being part of this
      giant extended family, you may well find that you can't ever really leave
      (trust me - I've tried). After each move I have found, under the umbrella
      of the SCA, the people that I would be friends with if the SCA didn't exist
      *if I could find them*. The SCA conveniently puts them all in one place for
      me, making it a much shorter process to find these people and begin building
      friendships with them.

      So, what brought me to the SCA was an initial attraction to the "stuff" that
      I could learn without having to join 27 different organizations and the
      people. It's those same things that keep me coming back. I could learn a
      new art or science each year and never come close to sampling everything at
      the smorgasboard! And I really don't want to imagine my life without the
      people that I've met through the SCA. Friends are the family that you
      choose, and I feel very blessed to be part of a chosen family that is filled
      with wonderful, loving, creative, successful people who happen to have
      varying degrees of interest in researching and recreating the Middle Ages.

      Within this family we have all found common interests that extend beyond the
      SCA and we have established relationships that, should the SCA vanish
      tomorrow, would still be as real and as fullfilling as they are today.


      Margarete
    • Asbjorn Johansen
      ... Attempting to recreate medieval tournament combat, at full speed and power. In the beginning it was because I thought SCA was the only medieval oriented
      Message 2 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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        >why are you in the SCA...

        Attempting to recreate medieval tournament combat, at full speed and power.
        In the beginning it was because I thought SCA was the only medieval oriented
        combat group, but I've stayed because of the research done by folks like
        Master Galleron de Crecy, Duke Finvaar, Count Rhys, and Duke Conn. SCA
        combat as done at many passages of arms and more authenticity oriented
        events using counted blows and period combat rules is one of the best ways
        to recreate the speed and power of medieval tournament combat. (There are a
        few "live steel" groups that fight at or close to this level, but they
        suffer the difficulty of being very small and typically being very
        regional). Without being able to research period tournaments and combat (we
        are also fortunate that in the past 20 years there has been a renaissance in
        scholarly interest in the medieval tournament as well as medieval combat in
        general).



        Asbjorn


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      • Jane Ravenswood
        Interesting question, my lady! I have returned recently to the SCA after a 10 year hiatus. I had been a member for about 10 years before that, finding out
        Message 3 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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          Interesting question, my lady! I have returned recently to the SCA after a
          10 year hiatus. I had been a member for about 10 years before that, finding
          out about the SCA from a friend in high school. The reason I joined was
          initially "oh cool, I get to wear costumes and wear various bits of steel.",
          something that definitely appealed to a young woman who loved to read sword
          and sorcery and s-f. That interest matured into wanting to help recreate an
          ideal of the middle ages, complete with chivalry etc. It was a great place
          to meet like-minded people. I also got to enjoy the various arts and crafts
          from mead brewing to, recently, embroidery (I'm awfully proud of my first
          hand-embroidered collar and cuffs that I just finished <grin>).
          I did leave because of how political things were getting, that people seemed
          to be forgetting that we are all assumed to be nobles and that chivalry
          should be the norm not the exception. IMO, the SCA was becoming how the
          Middle Ages really were, with petty wars, and definite classes, with those
          who thought they had a divine right to act like jerks and abuse others
          simply by how long they were in the Society or if they had some title. It
          was worse when they excused themselves by saying that "that's how it was in
          the Middle Ages."
          I have returned to see if things have changed or perhaps if I've changed
          enough for things like that to not bother me as much. To put it bluntly, I
          have yet to decide. Even though I know the whole concept of what the SCA
          "should" be has been beaten to death, I joined it as a group that recreates
          the best of the Middle Ages and that's how I belive that it was intended to
          be. There are plenty of strict recreationist groups out there that fill
          their own purpose which is fine but not what I and others are looking for.

          Just my two cents,

          Darka


          >From: Mary Higgins <rufquad@...>
          >Reply-To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
          >To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [EKSouth] So, why are you in the SCA?
          >Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 06:37:45 -0400
          >
          >As Ana bhecc inghean ui Fearghail so eloquently pointed out, we should
          >remember why we are in the SCA. So, I pose the question to any who care to
          >answer - why are you in the SCA? Even if you've been in for two weeks, you
          >probably have some things to contribute!
          >
          >Not being one to throw out a question without being willing to give my own
          >response, here are my thoughts on the subject:
          >
          >I got into the SCA when I was in college - some 15 plus years ago. What I
          >found first was a place in which an introverted young lady could learn to
          >play at the art of flirtation (and a whole slew of other arts and sciences)
          >in a relatively safe environment while gathering a lot of positive
          >reinforcement from the attentive men in the group. Being valued simply for
          >who I was and NOT what I could do for anyone was amazing. Having relative
          >strangers express their concern over my happiness, my "fun quotiant" and my
          >general well being was amazing to me and provided a very solid foundation
          >for my now very intact self image. The generosity of the people that I met
          >amazed me. I learned to accept a compliment graciously. I learned to give
          >a heartfelt and graceful compliment. I learned to run events with a budget
          >in the thousands of dollars at an age where most of us can't fathem that
          >much money. I learned to see things that needed to be done and took pride
          >in figuring out how to get them done before too many other people had
          >noticed the gap. I learned management and people skills that helped me go
          >on to be very successful in my modern career. And I made friends. Life
          >long, can't imagine my life without 'em, friends.
          >
          >I also partook of the veritable smorgasboard of "stuff" to be learned and
          >shared through the SCA. Yes, I could join a recorder society, a needlework
          >society, a C&I society, etc. Or, I can join the SCA and get it all with no
          >pressure to do more than I want to with each new skill.
          >
          >Ultimately, what has kept me coming back to the SCA, desprite moves to four
          >(very different) kingdoms in five (equally different)states, is the people.
          >In any group there will be the "walking fun voids" who live to cause
          >turmoil. But, then there are the other 99.9% of people who are there for
          >all of the good reasons to be part of an organization such as this one and
          >on a daily basis represent the ideals of the organization.
          >
          >SCA people are unique and once you've gotten used to being part of this
          >giant extended family, you may well find that you can't ever really leave
          >(trust me - I've tried). After each move I have found, under the umbrella
          >of the SCA, the people that I would be friends with if the SCA didn't exist
          >*if I could find them*. The SCA conveniently puts them all in one place
          >for
          >me, making it a much shorter process to find these people and begin
          >building
          >friendships with them.
          >
          >So, what brought me to the SCA was an initial attraction to the "stuff"
          >that
          >I could learn without having to join 27 different organizations and the
          >people. It's those same things that keep me coming back. I could learn a
          >new art or science each year and never come close to sampling everything at
          >the smorgasboard! And I really don't want to imagine my life without the
          >people that I've met through the SCA. Friends are the family that you
          >choose, and I feel very blessed to be part of a chosen family that is
          >filled
          >with wonderful, loving, creative, successful people who happen to have
          >varying degrees of interest in researching and recreating the Middle Ages.
          >
          >Within this family we have all found common interests that extend beyond
          >the
          >SCA and we have established relationships that, should the SCA vanish
          >tomorrow, would still be as real and as fullfilling as they are today.
          >
          >
          >Margarete
          >


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        • April Bennett
          So, why are you in the SCA? I have been in the SCA for 4 years almost. I was looking for friends and something my husband, 2 children, and myself could be
          Message 4 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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            So, why are you in the SCA?

            I have been in the SCA for 4 years almost. I was looking for friends and
            something my husband, 2 children, and myself could be involved in together.
            We didn't do much together at that point and it took my husband about a year
            to get him out to an event, now he goes to more than I do! I have been
            amazed at how accepting of children everyone is. In my mundane life, many
            people I know are more of the mind "children should be in the other room".
            Everyone has always gone out of their way to involve my girls in the things
            we do and it makes life much nicer. I have always enjoyed being
            "different". Have to admit, this stuff makes for great discussions at work!
            It was important to me to find friends that would be better role models
            for my kids and that were just more fun to be around. At the last event I
            was at it was a beautiful bright sunny day. I sat on a hill watching the
            battle, felt the warm sun and wind on my face. I looked around at all my
            "friends" (atleast 500 or so at the time) and thought it doesn't get any
            better than this. This is perfect...... I needed friends at that point in
            my life and boy do I have them now!

            Yours in service,
            Marsaili Inghean Dhomnail

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          • lady_isabeau.geo
            Why am I in the SCA? There are many reasons. The first is the social aspect. I have some of the most incredible friends in the SCA (not to mention that the
            Message 5 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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              Why am I in the SCA? There are many reasons.

              The first is the social aspect. I have some of the most incredible
              friends in the SCA (not to mention that the rest of my immediate
              mundane family are SCAdians). When my mother was ill, SCAdians from
              all over the kingdom were there for me and my family. Every day, it
              seemed I was printing out another email to read her containing good
              wishes and concern. When she died, our SCA friends stepped forward
              to ease the burden and offer their support. Friends like that aren't
              easy to find, never mind in such a concentration.

              The second is the opportunity to learn. Knowledge for its own sake
              has always been valued in my family. In the SCA I have the
              opportunity to learn from other people and pass along my own
              knowledge. I have a forum for discussing my ideas and showcasing my
              talents. I have a reason to research and interested people to share
              that with.

              The third is, it's fun! I like to dress up in pretty clothes, sing
              for people, cook for people and explore the myriad opportunities the
              SCA offers.

              Do I always agree with everyone in the SCA? Not by a long-shot. I
              don't need to. There are wonderful people and opportunities who make
              it worth suffering the fools. I will continue to work and serve and
              try my best to lead by example. While I may not always suceed, I
              will continue to try--that, to me, is the heart of the SCA.

              In service,
              Isabeau d'Orleans
            • Janet Anderson
              ... Yich. I support any and all efforts to be as authentic as possible in clothing, craftsmanship, ceremony, etc. However, I think we need authentic
              Message 6 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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                >It
                >was worse when they excused themselves by saying that "that's how it was in
                >the Middle Ages."

                Yich.

                I support any and all efforts to be as authentic as possible in clothing,
                craftsmanship, ceremony, etc. However, I think we need "authentic"
                treatment of "inferiors" in the SCA about as much as we need infant
                mortality, waterborne diseases, and chamber pots emptied out of upstairs
                windows.


                Dorigen


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              • ladygrania@aol.com
                Originally, I joined to get my family involved in activities we could do together. I got more and more involved and found that the need to belong to something
                Message 7 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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                  Originally, I joined to get my family involved in activities we could do together. I got more and more involved and found that the need to belong to something of value was stronger than any other reason I could identify. Learning opportunities also rank high. The overwhelming reason today is the opportunity to belong to a multicultural, multifaceted group that doesn't (for the most part) need any acceptance training. I have seen thin, fat, short, tall, able bodied and the handicapped work together, enjoying each others company without the boundaries we experience in the mundane world. Such an open community does not discriminate on any basis. Those who are conservative types can express their views along with the open and liberal types. And the freedom to express displeasure with those who disagree is generally not treated as a cause for lifelong shunning, just a difference of opinion. So, for whatever reason, we get along or not, we still come together for a common goal - to continue advancing the customs, arts and lifestyles of a culture from long ago, where people were diverse and disagreeable - as much as we are today.

                  Grania
                • daddyurso@aol.com
                  i joined the SCA about 10 years ago, when i joined i was a square dancer and wanted to try a new form of dance, i had also realized that as a gay man, i had
                  Message 8 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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                    i joined the SCA about 10 years ago, when i joined i was a square dancer and
                    wanted to try a new form of dance, i had also realized that as a gay man, i
                    had been ghettoizing myself, i realized that the only straight people i knew
                    were in my family or at my job, i thought the SCA would be a great place to
                    meet cool people, i was right, i started with dancing and i still dance every
                    week (our local practice) thru the society i have met friends who are
                    unbelievably cool, seven years ago, an SCA friend mentioned an opening in her
                    office, it ended up with a job i had for 7 years, six years ago, i started a
                    camp at pennsic, three years ago, i started a household, two years ago an
                    attractive guy showed up to one of the parties in that camp-to talk to my SCA
                    wife , 14 months later, many SCA friends made a wedding possible for that
                    attractive guy and I that we could have never afforded otherwise, and during
                    the service, all of our friends there, pledged to be our extended family.
                    These are a few of the reasons I am in the SCA.
                    Lord Calogero Urso


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Eric Schaffer
                    Why am I in the SCA? The SCA is an escape. For a brief time each week I get to fence, or make garb, or listen to stories and songs, or fire my bow, or best yet
                    Message 9 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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                      Why am I in the SCA?

                      The SCA is an escape. For a brief time each week I get to fence, or make
                      garb, or listen to stories and songs, or fire my bow, or best yet I get to
                      hang out with great people and talk about common interest.

                      Learning is another big part for me. My brain gets stagnet if I don't try
                      and learn something new. The SCA has so many things to learn and so many
                      teachers I almost get stuck trying to figure out which one I want to learn
                      first.

                      But maybe the best part would have to be the comradery. Not all the people
                      are great but alot of them are. The wierdest thing is that I have even had
                      fun cleaning up a hall after an event because the people are so cool.

                      Olrik van Lubbeke



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                    • mebrett@vassar.edu
                      As Mistress Margarete used my post as a springboard for this question, I feel obliged to answer. I apologize if it is not as eloquent as it could be. To be
                      Message 10 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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                        As Mistress Margarete used my post as a springboard for this
                        question, I feel obliged to answer. I apologize if it is not as
                        eloquent as it could be.

                        To be frank, I first joined the SCA because my older sister was
                        going, and I wanted to wear cool clothes and pretend to be in history
                        too. We'd both been actressed from a young age, and the schools I
                        went to made history real and interesting.

                        Then it was the community. There were people of all ages, and I got
                        good advice. In a number of ways, the SCA is a good place to hit
                        puberty. You are allowed, to quote my sister, to "flirt with
                        impunity," and people understand that flirting is not an invitation
                        to something else. The SCA was a very safe place to spend years which
                        were otherwise very difficult and lonely for me.

                        Why am I still here? Well, it's now in my blood. The ideas and the
                        excitement live in my heart everyday, despite the fact that I've
                        averaged about 3 events a year, including Pennsic, due to lack of
                        car. Moreover, I'm a fully declared history major. My love of history
                        overwhelms me (and my friends). There is nothing so exciting for me
                        as seeing the people in the SCA do in-depth research and then put the
                        ideas into action. Not only discovering history in a theoretical
                        sense, but also in its application. At the moment, I plan to apply
                        for a grant after college to do our kind of "demo" but focusing on
                        the colonial period or the mid 19th c at public schools.

                        Wow. I said a lot.

                        In service,

                        Ana bhecc inghean ui Fearghail
                        Shire of Frosted Hills, East

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Douglas Shannon
                        ... I came across the SCA at three seperate times and at three very distinctly different ages (each with a different mindset), I finally began participating
                        Message 11 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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                          > From: Mary Higgins <rufquad@...>
                          >Subject: So, why are you in the SCA?
                          >
                          >As Ana bhecc inghean ui Fearghail so eloquently pointed out, we should
                          >remember why we are in the SCA. So, I pose the question to any who care to
                          >answer - why are you in the SCA? Even if you've been in for two weeks, you
                          >probably have some things to contribute!

                          I came across the SCA at three seperate times and at three very distinctly
                          different ages (each with a different mindset), I finally began
                          participating and joined the SCA for the combat. I came in to take part in
                          the honor and chivalry on and off the field.

                          I've been in the SCA for about four years now and every day I find something
                          new to occupy my time and my mind. While I joined so I could fight, I have
                          found recently that card-weaving (weaving in general actually) is occupying
                          alot of my spare time and energy. I'm now interested in wood and stone
                          carving, my wife has renewed her interest in stained glass.

                          We're both having alot of fun with some very wonderful people, and we are
                          ever so glad that we stumbled across an SCA demo in the mountains of
                          Pennsylvania during a botched paintball weekend.

                          Douglas the Indecisive

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                        • kmizzi@aol.com
                          Why I joined and why I stayed are two different questions... I am on the leading edge of those born into the society. My parents brought myself and my two
                          Message 12 of 30 , May 22, 2002
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                            Why I joined and why I stayed are two different questions... I am on the leading edge of those 'born' into the society. My parents brought myself and my two younger sisters to our first event, pennsic 14, at the ages of 5, 3, and 1. We loved it, they loved it and so we stayed.

                            I choose the SCA for myself in college when I went independently to events and found my own way into it all. History, society, chilivery and acceptence (not to mention the previously mentioned flurtful environment) are what make up the SCA. Even the politics of the SCA have strengthend me. I'm sure most of us have seen far worse at the office, PTAs, GirlScouts, Local VFW's, and the like - every group has politics and I'm glad ours are gentled by the basic premise that we are in this for fun and chilivery. Plus, on the whole, the SCA has the most open minded and intellegent people and that goes a long way to create and solve arguements.

                            All in all... I am looking forward to a long time yet in the SCA and I'm happy for my 17 years in the society.

                            Mary of Carrigart
                          • jbennett68@aol.com
                            I joined the SCA because I like to fight. Whether it is street fighting, wrestling, Paintball wars, BB gun wars, acorn fights whatever, I like to fight. I
                            Message 13 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                              I joined the SCA because I like to fight. Whether it is street fighting,
                              wrestling, Paintball wars, BB gun wars, acorn fights whatever, I like to
                              fight. I enjoy the exercise and the challenge of a good fight. Street
                              fighting has its downsides; jail, and injuries. In the SCA fighting is
                              somewhat controlled and most people have honor and are not out to
                              intentionally injure others. This makes the fighting that much more fun.
                              Since being involved in the SCA with my wife and kids, we have made many
                              friends and I have even diversified into other areas, armor making, and
                              possibly brewing and drumming soon.

                              I have heard several people mention that flirting is one of their reasons
                              they joined the SCA or at least a selling point. I disagree and think it
                              will be the downfall to my families involvement. I have a wife and 2
                              daughters. If anyone flirts with any of them, then they will feel the wrath
                              of my sword arm and possibly worse. Flirting is fun if you and the object of
                              your flirtation are both single. If you flirt with the wrong person, it can
                              be dangerous. I see it as disrespectful and dishonorable to flirt with
                              another mans lady. As far as the children go, they are both young, but the
                              time will come when some young buck will try his hand at flirting with my
                              daughters and feel the wrath of my sword. I am not the best at arms, but my
                              tolerance for pain is high and my resolve of "Death before dishonor" makes
                              for a good warrior.

                              Just my two cents......


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • wyvern@megahits.com
                              ... It s really up to the lady isn t it? It s not as if there are no honorable ladies -- single or otherwise -- who enjoy flirting with other honorable
                              Message 14 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                On 23 May 2002 at 11:04, jbennett68@... wrote:

                                > a wife and 2 daughters. If anyone flirts with any of them, then they
                                > will feel the wrath of my sword arm and possibly worse. Flirting is
                                > fun if you and the object of your flirtation are both single. If you
                                > flirt with the wrong person, it can be dangerous. I see it as
                                > disrespectful and dishonorable to flirt with another mans lady. As

                                It's really up to the lady isn't it? It's not as if there are no honorable
                                ladies -- single or otherwise -- who enjoy flirting with other honorable
                                gentlemen.

                                > far as the children go, they are both young, but the time will come
                                > when some young buck will try his hand at flirting with my daughters
                                > and feel the wrath of my sword. I am not the best at arms, but my
                                > tolerance for pain is high and my resolve of "Death before dishonor"
                                > makes for a good warrior.

                                Or, if not carefully tempered, a bully. There is a world of difference
                                between flirtation and foul play. Sometimes not knowing the difference
                                is the more dishonorable trait.

                                YIS,
                                Macsen
                              • Janet Anderson
                                ... Please note what the prior poster said about the age of his daughters ... Dorigen _________________________________________________________________ Get
                                Message 15 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                  >Or, if not carefully tempered, a bully. There is a world of difference
                                  >between flirtation and foul play

                                  Please note what the prior poster said about the age of his daughters ...


                                  Dorigen


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                                • jbennett68@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 5/23/2002 11:22:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Flirtation can lead to foul play. Do you wait for the flames to rise high before putting
                                  Message 16 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                    In a message dated 5/23/2002 11:22:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    wyvern@... writes:


                                    > Or, if not carefully tempered, a bully. There is a world of difference
                                    > between flirtation and foul play. Sometimes not knowing the difference
                                    > is the more dishonorable trait.
                                    >

                                    Flirtation can lead to foul play. Do you wait for the flames to rise high
                                    before putting out the fire or do you pour water on it, at the first sign of
                                    smoke?

                                    Married people and young children have no cause to flirt. Psuedo-flirtation
                                    is a whole different story. When both parties know they are joking, then it
                                    does not count as flirting. Flirting is when you expect a response or are
                                    extending an offer and expecting a reply. In my opinion a true lady does not
                                    flirt and a true gentle does not flirt with the exception of singles looking
                                    for a mate.


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • wyvern@megahits.com
                                    ... Nothing particularly relevant. If a young buck flirts with ones equally young daughters it is hardly sufficient cause for threats of physical violence.
                                    Message 17 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                      On 23 May 2002 at 15:29, Janet Anderson wrote:

                                      > >Or, if not carefully tempered, a bully. There is a world of
                                      > >difference between flirtation and foul play
                                      >
                                      > Please note what the prior poster said about the age of his daughters

                                      Nothing particularly relevant. If a young "buck" flirts with ones equally
                                      young daughters it is hardly sufficient cause for threats of physical
                                      violence. IMHO, that sort of posturing went out with Neanderthal.

                                      Macsen
                                    • wyvern@megahits.com
                                      ... As it happens I m a professional firefighter. As such I can generally tell the differnce between a fire that provides warmth or pleasant illumination and
                                      Message 18 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                        On 23 May 2002 at 11:43, jbennett68@... wrote:

                                        > > Or, if not carefully tempered, a bully. There is a world of
                                        > > difference between flirtation and foul play. Sometimes not knowing
                                        > > the difference is the more dishonorable trait.
                                        >
                                        > Flirtation can lead to foul play. Do you wait for the flames to rise
                                        > high before putting out the fire or do you pour water on it, at the
                                        > first sign of smoke?

                                        As it happens I'm a professional firefighter. As such I can generally tell
                                        the differnce between a fire that provides warmth or pleasant
                                        illumination and one that is destructive. I tend only to worry about the
                                        latter and let the former alone (or even encourage it).

                                        > Married people and young children have no cause to flirt.

                                        That is, of course, your opinion, which I may share in part but clearly
                                        not in full.

                                        > Psuedo-flirtation is a whole different story. When both parties know
                                        > they are joking, then it does not count as flirting. Flirting is when

                                        An odd definition, but I'll accept that it is yours and adjust my reading of
                                        your missives accordingly.

                                        YIS,
                                        Macsen
                                      • cypherindigo
                                        Mary and her sisters are one of the reasons I stayed with the SCA. It is very difficult to have problems with a group when darling little girls sit on
                                        Message 19 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                          Mary and her sisters are one of the reasons I stayed with the SCA.
                                          <G> It is very difficult to have problems with a group when darling
                                          little girls sit on your lap and ask for stories. That was 16 years
                                          ago, and it is one of the joys of my life is to watch them turn into
                                          the lovely ladies they are.

                                          A dear friend brought me to my first event, and I found the
                                          acceptance that had been missing from much of the rest of my life. I
                                          am a librarian, by trade, and an education junkie.....I learn so much
                                          here.

                                          Marian of Kilkenny

                                          --- In EKSouth@y..., kmizzi@a... wrote:
                                          > Why I joined and why I stayed are two different questions... I am
                                          on the leading edge of those 'born' into the society. My parents
                                          brought myself and my two younger sisters to our first event, pennsic
                                          14, at the ages of 5, 3, and 1. We loved it, they loved it and so we
                                          stayed.
                                          >
                                          > I choose the SCA for myself in college when I went independently to
                                          events and found my own way into it all. History, society, chilivery
                                          and acceptence (not to mention the previously mentioned flurtful
                                          environment) are what make up the SCA. Even the politics of the SCA
                                          have strengthend me. I'm sure most of us have seen far worse at the
                                          office, PTAs, GirlScouts, Local VFW's, and the like - every group has
                                          politics and I'm glad ours are gentled by the basic premise that we
                                          are in this for fun and chilivery. Plus, on the whole, the SCA has
                                          the most open minded and intellegent people and that goes a long way
                                          to create and solve arguements.
                                          >
                                          > All in all... I am looking forward to a long time yet in the SCA
                                          and I'm happy for my 17 years in the society.
                                          >
                                          > Mary of Carrigart
                                        • demontsegur
                                          ... rise high ... first sign of ... There is a point to this, sadly. I have experienced some very bad behavior at the hands of a very few men in the SCA (both
                                          Message 20 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                            --- In EKSouth@y..., jbennett68@a... wrote:
                                            > Flirtation can lead to foul play. Do you wait for the flames to
                                            rise high
                                            > before putting out the fire or do you pour water on it, at the
                                            first sign of
                                            > smoke?

                                            There is a point to this, sadly. I have experienced some very bad
                                            behavior at the hands of a very few men in the SCA (both knights!?!).
                                            These cases were ones in which their flirtations quickly and
                                            unexpectedly turned into unwanted physical contact. However, with
                                            more SCA experience and hindsight, I think they are by FAR the
                                            exception and not the rule.

                                            ... And, to be fair, I also met my future husband in the SCA. I've
                                            met a bunch of other gallant, kind, respectful men who may or may not
                                            make flirtatious comments, but if such comments are made, they are
                                            made light-heartedly, in public environs, and with the understanding
                                            that we all know each other well enough to know that it is nothing
                                            more than silly banter and affection.

                                            Marcele de Montsegur
                                          • April Bennett
                                            I believe Jbennett is concerned about the flirtation with his wife and the FUTURE flirtation with his children. Many people have difficulty understanding the
                                            Message 21 of 30 , May 23, 2002
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                                              I believe Jbennett is concerned about the flirtation with his wife and the
                                              FUTURE flirtation with his children. Many people have difficulty
                                              understanding the difference between good natured fun flirting and the kind
                                              that is ment to lead to other things. Since this is not a common thing to
                                              have to deal with mundanely, sometimes it is difficult to deal with in the
                                              SCA. How do you tell the difference? Where is the line? I have heard many
                                              people say SCA also stands for Society for Consenting Adults. Do you assume
                                              it is innocent flirting until it goes too far and you are forced to no
                                              longer associate with that person because it causes problems or do you
                                              assume it is not innocent and therefore never allow a gentle to even kiss
                                              your hand in greeting? This type of behavior can be so totally unacceptable
                                              in the mundane world for some that it is almost impossible to remember that
                                              it is just part of the "game".

                                              Marsaili

                                              >From: "Janet Anderson" <dorigen@...>
                                              >Reply-To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                              >To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                              >Subject: Re: [EKSouth] So, why are you in the SCA?
                                              >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:29:25 +0000
                                              >
                                              > >Or, if not carefully tempered, a bully. There is a world of difference
                                              > >between flirtation and foul play
                                              >
                                              >Please note what the prior poster said about the age of his daughters ...
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >Dorigen
                                              >
                                              >
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                                            • Jane Ravenswood
                                              I do agree about the flirting. It can occasionally be fun but it used to be(and likely still is) very little innocent flirting and more trying to get
                                              Message 22 of 30 , May 24, 2002
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                                                I do agree about the flirting. It can occasionally be fun but it used to
                                                be(and likely still is) very little "innocent flirting" and more trying to
                                                get someone to have sex. I was in my late teens, fairly good-looking and
                                                was, ah, well-gifted in the bosom. Oh, the cloved lemons that came my way
                                                <ugh>. Add to that the fact that I was painfully shy and it's a wonder I
                                                stayed at all being that it was often "oh no sex? then I don't want anything
                                                to do with you."

                                                That kind of flirting I can do without. Rather glad I have a wedding band
                                                now just for that reason.

                                                Darka

                                                >From: jbennett68@...
                                                >Reply-To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                                >To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                                >Subject: Re: [EKSouth] So, why are you in the SCA?
                                                >Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:04:44 EDT
                                                >
                                                >I joined the SCA because I like to fight. Whether it is street fighting,
                                                >wrestling, Paintball wars, BB gun wars, acorn fights whatever, I like to
                                                >fight. I enjoy the exercise and the challenge of a good fight. Street
                                                >fighting has its downsides; jail, and injuries. In the SCA fighting is
                                                >somewhat controlled and most people have honor and are not out to
                                                >intentionally injure others. This makes the fighting that much more fun.
                                                >Since being involved in the SCA with my wife and kids, we have made many
                                                >friends and I have even diversified into other areas, armor making, and
                                                >possibly brewing and drumming soon.
                                                >
                                                >I have heard several people mention that flirting is one of their reasons
                                                >they joined the SCA or at least a selling point. I disagree and think it
                                                >will be the downfall to my families involvement. I have a wife and 2
                                                >daughters. If anyone flirts with any of them, then they will feel the
                                                >wrath
                                                >of my sword arm and possibly worse. Flirting is fun if you and the object
                                                >of
                                                >your flirtation are both single. If you flirt with the wrong person, it
                                                >can
                                                >be dangerous. I see it as disrespectful and dishonorable to flirt with
                                                >another mans lady. As far as the children go, they are both young, but the
                                                >time will come when some young buck will try his hand at flirting with my
                                                >daughters and feel the wrath of my sword. I am not the best at arms, but
                                                >my
                                                >tolerance for pain is high and my resolve of "Death before dishonor" makes
                                                >for a good warrior.
                                                >
                                                >Just my two cents......
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >


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                                              • bronwynmgn@aol.com
                                                In a message dated 5/24/2002 1:19:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... Cloved fruit are very easy to deal with. After all the recipient is the one who decides how
                                                Message 23 of 30 , May 27, 2002
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                                                  In a message dated 5/24/2002 1:19:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                  jane_ravenswood@... writes:


                                                  > . It can occasionally be fun but it used to
                                                  > be(and likely still is) very little "innocent flirting" and more trying to
                                                  > get someone to have sex. I was in my late teens, fairly good-looking and
                                                  > was, ah, well-gifted in the bosom. Oh, the cloved lemons that came my way
                                                  > <ugh>.

                                                  Cloved fruit are very easy to deal with. After all the recipient is the one
                                                  who decides how the greeting is administered. Offer him your hand to kiss,
                                                  and drop the cloved fruit in a convenient table, or behind the curtains or
                                                  something as soon as you can reasonably do so unobserved. I've been doing it
                                                  for years.
                                                  Actually, in 12 years I've encountered a lot of innocent flirting, and only
                                                  about 4 or 5 actual "come have sex with me" types. But then again, I don't
                                                  hang out at drinking parties, which is often where that sort of thing tends
                                                  to happen, either in mundania or in the SCA. And at least one of the "join
                                                  me in my tent" types was very polite about it...which I never encountered in
                                                  mundania.

                                                  Brangwayna


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                • Mary Higgins
                                                  ... to ... and ... way ... one ... kiss, ... it ... Years ago I came up with a unique way of dealing with cloved fruit - I suggest a dance to the gentle in
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , May 28, 2002
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                                                    > > . It can occasionally be fun but it used to
                                                    > > be(and likely still is) very little "innocent flirting" and more trying
                                                    to
                                                    > > get someone to have sex. I was in my late teens, fairly good-looking
                                                    and
                                                    > > was, ah, well-gifted in the bosom. Oh, the cloved lemons that came my
                                                    way
                                                    > > <ugh>.
                                                    >
                                                    > Cloved fruit are very easy to deal with. After all the recipient is the
                                                    one
                                                    > who decides how the greeting is administered. Offer him your hand to
                                                    kiss,
                                                    > and drop the cloved fruit in a convenient table, or behind the curtains or
                                                    > something as soon as you can reasonably do so unobserved. I've been doing
                                                    it
                                                    > for years.

                                                    Years ago I came up with a unique way of dealing with cloved fruit - I
                                                    suggest a dance to the gentle in place of a kiss. I've never had anyone
                                                    express disappointment nor have I had anyone misinterpret the actions or try
                                                    to push too far. In terms of getting rid of the thing after I have it, I'm
                                                    all for dropping it on a convenient table as well.

                                                    Margarete
                                                  • Jenne Heise
                                                    ... You know, maybe it s because I m old and fat and spend a lot of time in the kitchen, but I have never actually seen cloved fruit games in operation. --
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , May 28, 2002
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                                                      > Years ago I came up with a unique way of dealing with cloved fruit - I
                                                      > suggest a dance to the gentle in place of a kiss. I've never had anyone
                                                      > express disappointment nor have I had anyone misinterpret the actions or try
                                                      > to push too far. In terms of getting rid of the thing after I have it, I'm
                                                      > all for dropping it on a convenient table as well.

                                                      You know, maybe it's because I'm old and fat and spend a lot of time in
                                                      the kitchen, but I have never actually seen cloved fruit games in
                                                      operation.

                                                      --
                                                      Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                                                      disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
                                                      "he said, cut off your hands./They are always poking at things./
                                                      They might touch me. . . " -- Marge Piercy, _The Friend_
                                                    • demontsegur
                                                      ... time in ... Sometimes it s a sight to behold... I m thinking of my friend Elglin, husband to my friend Juliana (who is on this list). I once saw Elglin
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , May 28, 2002
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                                                        --- In EKSouth@y..., Jenne Heise <jenne@m...> wrote:
                                                        > You know, maybe it's because I'm old and fat and spend a lot of
                                                        time in
                                                        > the kitchen, but I have never actually seen cloved fruit games in
                                                        > operation.

                                                        Sometimes it's a sight to behold... I'm thinking of my friend Elglin,
                                                        husband to my friend Juliana (who is on this list). I once saw Elglin
                                                        take a gigantic bite out of a cloven orange, cloves and peel and all,
                                                        and then chomp, chomp, chomp, and swallow the whole mess. Eeewww!

                                                        Marcele
                                                      • Jane Ravenswood
                                                        thankfully, it does seem that the blighted things are rare anymore. Or maybe they were more pernicious in Western PA. my favorite story about them is,
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , May 29, 2002
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                                                          thankfully, it does seem that the blighted things are rare anymore. Or
                                                          maybe they were more pernicious in Western PA.
                                                          my favorite story about them is, probably a SCA version of an urban legend,
                                                          is of some lady treating one like a grenade.

                                                          Darka


                                                          >From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
                                                          >Reply-To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                                          >Subject: Re: [EKSouth] So, why are you in the SCA?
                                                          >Date: Tue, 28 May 2002 08:41:43 -0400 (EDT)
                                                          >
                                                          > > Years ago I came up with a unique way of dealing with cloved fruit - I
                                                          > > suggest a dance to the gentle in place of a kiss. I've never had anyone
                                                          > > express disappointment nor have I had anyone misinterpret the actions or
                                                          >try
                                                          > > to push too far. In terms of getting rid of the thing after I have it,
                                                          >I'm
                                                          > > all for dropping it on a convenient table as well.
                                                          >
                                                          >You know, maybe it's because I'm old and fat and spend a lot of time in
                                                          >the kitchen, but I have never actually seen cloved fruit games in
                                                          >operation.
                                                          >
                                                          >--
                                                          >Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                                                          >disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me.
                                                          >"he said, cut off your hands./They are always poking at things./
                                                          >They might touch me. . . " -- Marge Piercy, _The Friend_


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                                                        • Alissa Pyrich
                                                          ... Not an urban legend. That would be me, at a long ago 12th Night. Knowing the SCA, I probably would not recognize the story if I heard it now. :-)
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , May 29, 2002
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                                                            On 29 May 2002, at 9:18, Jane Ravenswood wrote:

                                                            > my favorite story
                                                            > about them is, probably a SCA version of an urban legend, is of some
                                                            > lady treating one like a grenade.

                                                            Not an urban legend. That would be me, at a long ago 12th Night.
                                                            Knowing the SCA, I probably would not recognize the story if I
                                                            heard it now. :-)

                                                            Mistress Ailis Mac an Toisich
                                                          • mebrett@vassar.edu
                                                            ... Lady, are ou an good at telling stories? I would love to hear it, that I might tell it again and let the truth of our deeds sing out across the known
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , May 29, 2002
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                                                              >On 29 May 2002, at 9:18, Jane Ravenswood wrote:
                                                              >
                                                              >> my favorite story
                                                              >> about them is, probably a SCA version of an urban legend, is of some
                                                              >> lady treating one like a grenade.
                                                              >
                                                              >Not an urban legend. That would be me, at a long ago 12th Night.
                                                              >Knowing the SCA, I probably would not recognize the story if I
                                                              >heard it now. :-)
                                                              >
                                                              >Mistress Ailis Mac an Toisich

                                                              Lady, are ou an good at telling stories? I would love to hear it,
                                                              that I might tell it again and let the truth of our deeds sing out
                                                              across the known world! ;)

                                                              Ana bhecc, the bard.

                                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                            • Jane Ravenswood
                                                              Very pleased to make your acquaintance, Mistress Ailis! I ve admired you from legend ever since I ve heard the cloved grenade story! Darka ...
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Jun 3, 2002
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                                                                Very pleased to make your acquaintance, Mistress Ailis! I've admired you
                                                                from legend ever since I've heard the cloved grenade story!

                                                                Darka


                                                                >From: "Alissa Pyrich" <apyrich@...>
                                                                >Reply-To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                                                >To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
                                                                >Subject: Re: [EKSouth] So, why are you in the SCA?
                                                                >Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:02:28 -0500
                                                                >
                                                                >On 29 May 2002, at 9:18, Jane Ravenswood wrote:
                                                                >
                                                                > > my favorite story
                                                                > > about them is, probably a SCA version of an urban legend, is of some
                                                                > > lady treating one like a grenade.
                                                                >
                                                                >Not an urban legend. That would be me, at a long ago 12th Night.
                                                                >Knowing the SCA, I probably would not recognize the story if I
                                                                >heard it now. :-)
                                                                >
                                                                >Mistress Ailis Mac an Toisich


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