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Re: SR Meeting Minutes/EK South discussion topics

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  • Timothy & Gabrielle Taylor
    ... This is the practice in Owl s Reste - Timothy and Omar offered to help with parking. The date is different this year, in the past the event has been held
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 10, 2000
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      > 1) SR Rattan Defender title.
      > We are currently in search of a new site. There were 2 possibilities mentioned
      > during the meeting. They were (a) including the tourney in the May 5-7
      > E Kingdom War Practice (FYI - Tim's Household volunteered to help with Parking,
      > I think?)

      This is the practice in Owl's Reste - Timothy and Omar offered to help with parking.
      The date is different this year, in the past the event has been held in mid-April

      > or (b) the West Windsor Event/demo (date unknown at this time).

      Believe the date is the weekend of May 19-21 ... another option is to hold a SR
      Fencing Defender Tourney at this demo.

      BTW, Timothy spoke with His Highness Balfar at 12th Night regarding the Rattan
      Tourney and what to call the winner. His Highness's preference is that the Rattan
      Tourney be for the *Southern Region Army Champion*, rather than the SR Rattan
      Defender which is what we've been going by.

      Also - if anyone would like to have a copy of the latest copy of the SR Newsletter
      mailed to them, send your address to me at flyingbear@.... Within the week
      copies will be mailed to SR Chroniclers, Senschals, Barons, Baronesses.

      In Service to the East and the Society,
      Gabrielle
    • Kevin Dail
      ... I am available to do some digital artwork for a website:) Kevin MacDaill Best Regards, Kevin John Dail Art Director, Web Illuminators Inc., Web Design,
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 10, 2000
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        >
        > (b) What would you like included in the Newsletter/Website? Is there anyone
        >willing to create/donate artwork? cartoons? articles??? Your thoughts are
        >welcome.
        >
        >In Service to the East,
        >Lady Muriel de Chimay
        >

        I am available to do some digital artwork for a website:)

        Kevin MacDaill

        Best Regards,

        Kevin John Dail
        Art Director, Web Illuminators Inc.,
        Web Design, Graphics and Business Solutions
        kdail@...
        http://www.webilluminators.com
      • Steven Rosen
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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          <<1)� SR Rattan Defender title.
          We are currently in search of a new site.� There were
          2 possibilities
          mentioned
          during the meeting.� They were� (a)� including the
          tourney in the May
          5-7
          E Kingdom War Practice� (FYI - Tim's Household
          volunteered to help with
          Parking,
          I think?) or� (b)� the West Windsor Event/demo� (date
          unknown at this
          time).>>


          The date for the West Windsor Lions Event/Demo/Ren
          Faire is May 13th & 14th. I suspect that the
          auto-(demo)-crat <Lady Mary the Hun> might be
          interested in this.



          <<3)� The SR Newsletter and Website.
          (a)� It was offered at the meeting that we should
          include the Chatelaine
          contact
          information in the Regnum of the Newsletter.� Maybe we
          should discuss
          which
          contact information really needs to be in the
          Newsletter.� Currently
          (without the Chatelaine information), it copies the
          same information as
          in
          the Pikestaff (this might appear redundant AND it
          takes up alot space).
          What do YOU think???>>

          I have always thought the Chatalaines of the East
          Kingdom have been greatly under utilized. The various
          newsletters are usually the first contact with new
          people, therefore it should say something about the
          "new people person".


          and that's what I think.

          Lord Ichabod the Tall
          OSC, retired-chatalaine, retired-seneschal

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        • Jane & Mark Waks
          ... I suspect you won t want to schedule a championship list opposite East Kingdom Crown Tourney :-) (May 13th, in CT) --Caitlin Davies
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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            Steven Rosen wrote:
            >
            > <<1) SR Rattan Defender title.
            > We are currently in search of a new site. There were
            > 2 possibilities mentioned
            > during the meeting. They were (a) including the
            > tourney in the May 5-7
            > E Kingdom War Practice (FYI - Tim's Household
            > volunteered to help with
            > Parking, I think?) or (b) the West Windsor Event/demo (date
            > unknown at this time).>>
            >
            > The date for the West Windsor Lions Event/Demo/Ren
            > Faire is May 13th & 14th. I suspect that the
            > auto-(demo)-crat <Lady Mary the Hun> might be
            > interested in this.

            I suspect you won't want to schedule a championship list
            opposite East Kingdom Crown Tourney :-) (May 13th, in CT)

            --Caitlin Davies
          • Janet Anderson
            ... I think I m with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should* be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic Defenders,
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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              >BTW, Timothy spoke with His Highness Balfar at 12th Night regarding the
              >Rattan
              >Tourney and what to call the winner. His Highness's preference is that the
              >Rattan
              >Tourney be for the *Southern Region Army Champion*, rather than the SR
              >Rattan
              >Defender which is what we've been going by.
              >

              I think I'm with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should*
              be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic
              Defenders, or whatever we end up calling them, who don't have to be in the
              Southern Region.


              Dorigen

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            • Jenne Heise
              ... Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don t belong to the SR Army, I believe. Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                > I think I'm with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should*
                > be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic
                > Defenders, or whatever we end up calling them, who don't have to be in the
                > Southern Region.

                Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't belong to the SR
                Army, I believe.

                Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me...

                "Now it's 'Let him live in freedom, if he lives like me.'" -- Jim Croce
              • Michael Macchione
                ... And I believe that when we first started to come up with the idea for this event was to have it open to every fighter in the southern region. This is part
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                  On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, Jenne Heise wrote:

                  > From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
                  >
                  > > I think I'm with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should*
                  > > be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic
                  > > Defenders, or whatever we end up calling them, who don't have to be in the
                  > > Southern Region.
                  >
                  > Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't belong to the SR
                  > Army, I believe.

                  And I believe that when we first started to come up with the idea for
                  this event was to have it open to every fighter in the southern region.
                  This is part of a unity effort... you can't unify if you try to exclude
                  certain people.

                  Kael
                • John Pyrich
                  ... You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep when I am able to fight. (long
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                    | Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't
                    | belong to the SR Army, I believe.

                    You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am
                    squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep
                    when I am able to fight. (long story).

                    However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                    to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                    think that is too much to ask.

                    Griffyn ap Madoc
                    ----------------
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                  • Katie Yoquinto
                    I tend to disagree with having the SR Defender have to be in the SR Army. Yes, he should be FROM the SR, but that does not automatically mean they have to be
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                      I tend to disagree with having the SR Defender have to be
                      in the SR Army. Yes, he should be FROM the SR, but that
                      does not automatically mean they have to be part of the
                      SR Army any more than you would have to be part of the NR
                      Army if you live in the North! I'm sure there could be
                      some compromise on name!

                      Also I feel that all the information possible should be
                      listed in any newsletters to make it easier for new
                      people to get the information they need (with
                      explanations of what everyone does!) I know when I first
                      joined (too many years ago to count!) I had no idea which
                      way to turn or how to get information!

                      Lady Ceridwyn Paxton

                      Katie
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                    • BriannaHs@xxx.xxx
                      ... There were a lot of other comments on this thread that I believe are pertinant but I didn t want to get quote crazy … I agree with Griffyn. There are a
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 12, 2000
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                        In a message dated 1/11/00 5:58:08 PM, pyrich@... writes:

                        >| Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't
                        >| belong to the SR Army, I believe.
                        >
                        >You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am
                        >squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep
                        >when I am able to fight. (long story).
                        >
                        >However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                        >to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                        >think that is too much to ask.
                        >
                        >Griffyn ap Madoc

                        There were a lot of other comments on this thread that I believe are
                        pertinant but I didn't want to get 'quote crazy'�

                        I agree with Griffyn. There are a lot of fighters out there who live within
                        the region, but due to other fealty (being squired to a non-SR Region knight,
                        for example) do not normally participate as a member of the SR Army. It has
                        been my personal experience that in situations like this, if a non-Army
                        fighter wins the Championship, there would there be no conflict in they then
                        fighting with the Army. It would be a positive reflection on whoever they
                        owed fealty to.

                        I believe as long as the requirements are made clear at the beginning, you
                        must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the SR Army when assembled,
                        I don't think that there will be any conflicts.

                        Regarding the title of the position, Champion IS a lot better than Rattan
                        Defender but, and I say this without having any other suggestion at the
                        moment, could we find a different title? "Champion" is, IMHO, overused, yes
                        it is an appropriate term but we have a Champion for EVERYTHING it seems. Can
                        we find something a little different? I thought Defender was a decent
                        alternative, if you drop the 'Rattan'. Just another thought to throw in the
                        game.

                        Lady Brianna Healfseaxe
                        ShadowMaker, Ltd.
                        House of the Winged Serpent
                        Barony of Carillion
                      • Chris Lubrecht
                        Defender of the Nether Region ?? *duck* *slap* Bad Mongol..bad bad Mongol.... Batujin ... From: BriannaHs@aol.com To: EKSouth@onelist.com
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 12, 2000
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                          Defender of the Nether Region ??

                          *duck*

                          *slap*

                          Bad Mongol..bad bad Mongol....


                          Batujin


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: BriannaHs@... <BriannaHs@...>
                          To: EKSouth@onelist.com <EKSouth@onelist.com>
                          Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 5:44 PM
                          Subject: Re: [EKSouth] SR Meeting Minutes/EK South discussion topics


                          >From: BriannaHs@...
                          >
                          >
                          >In a message dated 1/11/00 5:58:08 PM, pyrich@... writes:
                          >
                          >>| Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't
                          >>| belong to the SR Army, I believe.
                          >>
                          >>You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am
                          >>squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep
                          >>when I am able to fight. (long story).
                          >>
                          >>However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                          >>to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                          >>think that is too much to ask.
                          >>
                          >>Griffyn ap Madoc
                          >
                          >There were a lot of other comments on this thread that I believe are
                          >pertinant but I didn't want to get 'quote crazy'
                          >
                          >I agree with Griffyn. There are a lot of fighters out there who live within
                          >the region, but due to other fealty (being squired to a non-SR Region
                          knight,
                          >for example) do not normally participate as a member of the SR Army. It has
                          >been my personal experience that in situations like this, if a non-Army
                          >fighter wins the Championship, there would there be no conflict in they
                          then
                          >fighting with the Army. It would be a positive reflection on whoever they
                          >owed fealty to.
                          >
                          >I believe as long as the requirements are made clear at the beginning, you
                          >must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the SR Army when
                          assembled,
                          >I don't think that there will be any conflicts.
                          >
                          >Regarding the title of the position, Champion IS a lot better than Rattan
                          >Defender but, and I say this without having any other suggestion at the
                          >moment, could we find a different title? "Champion" is, IMHO, overused, yes
                          >it is an appropriate term but we have a Champion for EVERYTHING it seems.
                          Can
                          >we find something a little different? I thought Defender was a decent
                          >alternative, if you drop the 'Rattan'. Just another thought to throw in the
                          >game.
                          >
                          >Lady Brianna Healfseaxe
                          >ShadowMaker, Ltd.
                          >House of the Winged Serpent
                          >Barony of Carillion
                          >
                          >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
                          >
                          >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests!
                          >Sign up for eLerts at:
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                          >
                          >
                        • MIKEnJUDYC@xxx.xxx
                          In a message dated 1/11/2000 5:58:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, pyrich@concentric.net writes:
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 12, 2000
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                            In a message dated 1/11/2000 5:58:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                            pyrich@... writes:

                            <<
                            However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                            to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                            think that is too much to ask.
                            >>

                            It's Not? This automatically excludes people. There are many fighters who
                            live in the SR who don't fight with the SR army. There may easily be more
                            that don't fight with it than those that do. Some people don't want to fight
                            with the SR, mainly because they are fighting with another group, or who
                            don't want to fight with anyone at all. I doubt that I could win the tourney,
                            but if there is a requirement to fight with the SR, i can't even enter, as
                            winning it would mean I could not fight with my knight, my unit, or my man at
                            arms, at war practices all through the summer, and at Pennsic. So YES, it is
                            too much to ask.

                            Doing events to help unite the southern region is good. Doing an event that
                            divides the SR is bad. If you start doing this now, you might as well scrap
                            the whole idea, as you will be doing more harm than good.

                            I have to believe, since it is such a stupendously bad idea, that somehow the
                            idea has got garbled. Have the event, have a tournament, and let anyone who
                            lives in the SR enter.

                            Mikhaila
                          • Chris Lubrecht
                            ... fight ... tourney, ... at ... is ... Ok.. lets look at it differently. I am a Hordesman.. if I go out and win King or Queen s Champion, by your definition,
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                              >From: MIKEnJUDYC@...
                              >
                              >In a message dated 1/11/2000 5:58:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                              >pyrich@... writes:
                              >
                              ><<
                              > However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                              > to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                              > think that is too much to ask.
                              > >>
                              >
                              >It's Not? This automatically excludes people. There are many fighters who
                              >live in the SR who don't fight with the SR army. There may easily be more
                              >that don't fight with it than those that do. Some people don't want to
                              fight
                              >with the SR, mainly because they are fighting with another group, or who
                              >don't want to fight with anyone at all. I doubt that I could win the
                              tourney,
                              >but if there is a requirement to fight with the SR, i can't even enter, as
                              >winning it would mean I could not fight with my knight, my unit, or my man
                              at
                              >arms, at war practices all through the summer, and at Pennsic. So YES, it
                              is
                              >too much to ask.



                              Ok.. lets look at it differently. I am a Hordesman.. if I go out and win
                              King or Queen's Champion, by your definition, I could still just go fight
                              with the Horde.. even if they fought with the Midrealm. Sorry, but
                              IMHO..that logic is skewed. Your prince/King has made a request as a
                              condition of the title.. and it actually is a small one. If someone wants
                              the title, they should be willing to live by the conditions of the title. If
                              you can't live with it.. don't fight. Yes..this excludes people. Jobs
                              exclude people that don;t have the skills, hobbies exclude people who cannot
                              meet the obligations. That is all just part of it.


                              I know if I won the tourney.. My knight would understand and would give his
                              go-ahead.. as would my squire bros.. My Khan would even give the ok, as such
                              a thing would bring greater honor to those I am affiliated with more
                              regularly.


                              Batujin Ba'atur
                              Great Dark Horde
                            • Philip & Susan Troy
                              ... And this hobby is pretty liberal in that while it may exclude people who can t meet certain obligations from particular roles in the game, it actually
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                                Chris Lubrecht wrote:
                                >
                                > Your prince/King has made a request as a
                                > condition of the title.. and it actually is a small one. If someone wants
                                > the title, they should be willing to live by the conditions of the title. If
                                > you can't live with it.. don't fight. Yes..this excludes people. Jobs
                                > exclude people that don;t have the skills, hobbies exclude people who cannot
                                > meet the obligations. That is all just part of it.

                                And this hobby is pretty liberal in that while it may exclude people who
                                can't meet certain obligations from particular roles in the game, it
                                actually excludes almost nobody unilaterally. And I say "almost" only
                                because I assume somebody will think of an exception if I simply say,
                                "nobody". The fact that, say, I can't be king of the East (at least I
                                assume this as a likelihood) doesn't mean I can't play. When I was a kid
                                and we chose up sides for baseball, I always got to play, but I rarely,
                                if ever, got to pitch. Waaaa!

                                And I really wanted to be a brain surgeon, but I'm excluded!!!

                                BTW: Crown Tourneys exclude plenty of people, including non-qualified,
                                non-fighters, residents of another Kingdom, and, implicitly related to
                                the previous, people without a reasonable expectation of doing the job
                                of reigning. If the Southern Region Champion, or whatever the title ends
                                up being, is open to anybody, and doesn't connect to some regional
                                entity such as the Southern Region Army, how about calling the winner
                                the 5/17 Tourney Winner?

                                Adamantius
                                --
                                Phil & Susan Troy

                                troy@...
                              • Timothy & Gabrielle Taylor
                                ... Just to clarify - the event originally scheduled for the weekend April 14-16, is no longer happening. There was a verbal contract for the site several
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                                  MIKEnJUDYC@... wrote:

                                  > I have to believe, since it is such a stupendously bad idea, that somehow the
                                  > idea has got garbled. Have the event, have a tournament, and let anyone who
                                  > lives in the SR enter.
                                  >
                                  > Mikhaila

                                  Just to clarify - the event originally scheduled for the weekend April 14-16, is
                                  no longer happening. There was a verbal contract for the site several months
                                  ago, but when it came time to get it in writing the contact suddenly became
                                  inaccessible because the site was actually not available that weekend.

                                  An offer was made by Owl's Reste to do the tourney the Sunday of their Spring War
                                  Practice, May 4-6th.

                                  Gabrielle
                                • DRosen105@xxx.xxx
                                  Why would you want to be the SR defender if you have no intentions of defending the Sounthern Region? If you take all meaning out of the title, what s the
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                                    Why would you want to be the "SR defender" if you have no intentions of
                                    defending the Sounthern Region? If you take all meaning out of the title,
                                    what's the point of having it in the first place?
                                    Rupert the Unbalanced
                                  • Beth Ann Snead
                                    ... The biggest problem with this approach is that there is a *significant* percentage of the SR population that will find this requirement intolerable. Will
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jan 15, 2000
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                                      > I believe as long as the requirements are made clear
                                      > at the beginning, you
                                      > must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the
                                      > SR Army when assembled,
                                      > I don't think that there will be any conflicts.

                                      The biggest problem with this approach is that there
                                      is a *significant* percentage of the SR population
                                      that will find this requirement intolerable.

                                      Will there be any conflicts? Maybe not. Most likely
                                      these fighters will simply feel that they are unable
                                      to fight in the tourney. They would feel excluded and
                                      most likely their reaction would be to distance
                                      themselves from this movement entirely.

                                      By simply holding this hypothetical tourney so much
                                      damage would be done to the Southern Region that this
                                      whole process of identity building and unification
                                      would be impossible.

                                      Is one tourney worth risking all you are trying to
                                      build here?

                                      However, this whole post has been hypothetical because
                                      I simply don't feel that limiting the tourney to those
                                      willing to fight with the SRA was the intention of His
                                      Highness. Until that has been verified, I think more
                                      damage is being done by this thread than is warranted.

                                      Peyton
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                                    • Chris Lubrecht
                                      ... Which in itself.. bugs me. Would they find the same requirement harsh, if it was for the Principality throne? I can t imagine someone fighting with their
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jan 17, 2000
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                                        >From: Beth Ann Snead <ladypeyton@...>
                                        >
                                        >> I believe as long as the requirements are made clear
                                        >> at the beginning, you
                                        >> must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the
                                        >> SR Army when assembled,
                                        >> I don't think that there will be any conflicts.
                                        >
                                        >The biggest problem with this approach is that there
                                        >is a *significant* percentage of the SR population
                                        >that will find this requirement intolerable.

                                        Which in itself.. bugs me. Would they find the same requirement harsh, if it
                                        was for the Principality throne? I can't imagine someone fighting with their
                                        Northern loyalties, if they held the Princedom of the SR. Frankly, there
                                        are bunches of tournements that carry a similar weight with winning. Most
                                        fighters should be able to accept that. It is simply dishonorable to win a
                                        championship, and then not be willing to fight with the group you are
                                        championing.


                                        >
                                        >Will there be any conflicts? Maybe not. Most likely
                                        >these fighters will simply feel that they are unable
                                        >to fight in the tourney. They would feel excluded and
                                        >most likely their reaction would be to distance
                                        >themselves from this movement entirely.


                                        Maybe.. but that would be a flaw in logic. That's like saying.. "I can't
                                        hold to the responsabilities of crown.. so I won't fight crown.".. and then
                                        distanceing yourself from the kingdom because that is unfair.


                                        >
                                        >By simply holding this hypothetical tourney so much
                                        >damage would be done to the Southern Region that this
                                        >whole process of identity building and unification
                                        >would be impossible.

                                        If this is so, then the south is full of crybaby fighters.. and woe to us,
                                        for we are weak.


                                        >
                                        >Is one tourney worth risking all you are trying to
                                        >build here?
                                        >


                                        Maybe it is.. perhaps it will show the character of the region.

                                        Batujin Ba'atur
                                        Great Dark Horde
                                      • ASinou@aol.com
                                        Batu, I think there is something that you are missing here. Come to practice on Wednesday if you like and I will explain to you. This is all just a
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jan 17, 2000
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                                          Batu,

                                          I think there is something that you are missing here. Come to practice on
                                          Wednesday if you like and I will explain to you.
                                          This is all just a misunderstanding, that seems to be very difficult to
                                          clear up over email. I sometimes think that this form of communication leaves
                                          much to be desired.
                                          I think that if we all understood what was going on here, we would find
                                          many of us are on the same page of music.

                                          I salute all of you who are strong in your convictions. I praise all who
                                          choose not to remain ignorant-


                                          Please have a great day all,


                                          Sir Andreas
                                        • Chris Lubrecht
                                          -- ... on ... Well.. unless you have baby sitting at your practice.. it might be tough for me to get there. (I am just afraid that my twins would beat all
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jan 17, 2000
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                                            --

                                            >From: ASinou@...
                                            >
                                            >Batu,
                                            >
                                            > I think there is something that you are missing here. Come to practice
                                            on
                                            >Wednesday if you like and I will explain to you.

                                            Well.. unless you have baby sitting at your practice.. it might be tough for
                                            me to get there. (I am just afraid that my twins would beat all your guys
                                            up :) Hate to embarass everyone and all :) ((Note: This is funnier if you
                                            know my kids :) )))

                                            I don't know what I could be missing. The actual details of SR Army/Non-SR
                                            Army matter very little to me. Really what is flipping my button is people
                                            complaining that a tournement prize might carry some responsability, that it
                                            may cause them to have to fight apart from their friends. That is what I
                                            was addressing really. I don't see it as more than that.

                                            I just don't think the details are important. Honor should not be condition
                                            based.


                                            But.. I'll keep it open until someone clues me in to whatever it is that I
                                            am missing. ATM.. I see this as a fairly black and white issue.


                                            Batu
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