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SR Meeting Minutes/EK South discussion topics

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  • ladymuriel@xxx.xxx
    Greetings to the EK South list, There was a SR Meeting held at 12th Night this past weekend. There were approx. 25 gentles in attendence and the dialogue was
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 10, 2000
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      Greetings to the EK South list,

      There was a SR Meeting held at 12th Night this past weekend. There were
      approx. 25 gentles in attendence and the dialogue was quite active. There
      were several situations where, due to time constraints, we were unable to pursue
      in detail some of the ideas presented. Our alternative was to publish the
      topics that needed further discussion on this list, and allow comments from all
      164 members. :)

      The actual meeting minutes will be published either late this week or early next
      week.

      Topics for discussion:

      1) SR Rattan Defender title.
      We are currently in search of a new site. There were 2 possibilities mentioned
      during the meeting. They were (a) including the tourney in the May 5-7
      E Kingdom War Practice (FYI - Tim's Household volunteered to help with Parking,
      I think?) or (b) the West Windsor Event/demo (date unknown at this time).
      OR we could continue to pursue a SR stand-alone even
      (if so, we need a site, quickly!!!).
      What are YOUR thoughts???

      2) SR Bardic title.
      Do we want to postpone this competition until the fall? Postponing would allow
      us to stagger the SR champions (Bardic, Rattan etc) over the year, instead of
      having the SR champions changing at the same point of the year. What are YOUR
      thoughts??? Also, Black Rose gave an offer of including this at their May 20th
      event.

      3) The SR Newsletter and Website.
      (a) It was offered at the meeting that we should include the Chatelaine contact
      information in the Regnum of the Newsletter. Maybe we should discuss which
      contact information really needs to be in the Newsletter. Currently
      (without the Chatelaine information), it copies the same information as in
      the Pikestaff (this might appear redundant AND it takes up alot space).
      What do YOU think???
      (b) What would you like included in the Newsletter/Website? Is there anyone
      willing to create/donate artwork? cartoons? articles??? Your thoughts are
      welcome.

      4) SR Naming Project.
      There was a Report on the SR Naming Project in the Newsletter. Additional input
      for names/ideas would be greatly appreciated. Do YOU have any ideas on the
      Project? possible names? Ideas on HOW to get more involvement?

      5) Lord Ulrich graciously offered to work on creating Arms for the SR.
      It was mentioned at the meeting that this idea may be premature. What do
      YOU think???

      This should give us enough topics to discuss in the coming weeks, but if I've
      missed an idea that you wish to pursue, please send it to the list.

      In Service to the East,
      Lady Muriel de Chimay
    • Timothy & Gabrielle Taylor
      ... This is the practice in Owl s Reste - Timothy and Omar offered to help with parking. The date is different this year, in the past the event has been held
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 10, 2000
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        > 1) SR Rattan Defender title.
        > We are currently in search of a new site. There were 2 possibilities mentioned
        > during the meeting. They were (a) including the tourney in the May 5-7
        > E Kingdom War Practice (FYI - Tim's Household volunteered to help with Parking,
        > I think?)

        This is the practice in Owl's Reste - Timothy and Omar offered to help with parking.
        The date is different this year, in the past the event has been held in mid-April

        > or (b) the West Windsor Event/demo (date unknown at this time).

        Believe the date is the weekend of May 19-21 ... another option is to hold a SR
        Fencing Defender Tourney at this demo.

        BTW, Timothy spoke with His Highness Balfar at 12th Night regarding the Rattan
        Tourney and what to call the winner. His Highness's preference is that the Rattan
        Tourney be for the *Southern Region Army Champion*, rather than the SR Rattan
        Defender which is what we've been going by.

        Also - if anyone would like to have a copy of the latest copy of the SR Newsletter
        mailed to them, send your address to me at flyingbear@.... Within the week
        copies will be mailed to SR Chroniclers, Senschals, Barons, Baronesses.

        In Service to the East and the Society,
        Gabrielle
      • Kevin Dail
        ... I am available to do some digital artwork for a website:) Kevin MacDaill Best Regards, Kevin John Dail Art Director, Web Illuminators Inc., Web Design,
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 10, 2000
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          >
          > (b) What would you like included in the Newsletter/Website? Is there anyone
          >willing to create/donate artwork? cartoons? articles??? Your thoughts are
          >welcome.
          >
          >In Service to the East,
          >Lady Muriel de Chimay
          >

          I am available to do some digital artwork for a website:)

          Kevin MacDaill

          Best Regards,

          Kevin John Dail
          Art Director, Web Illuminators Inc.,
          Web Design, Graphics and Business Solutions
          kdail@...
          http://www.webilluminators.com
        • Steven Rosen
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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            <<1)� SR Rattan Defender title.
            We are currently in search of a new site.� There were
            2 possibilities
            mentioned
            during the meeting.� They were� (a)� including the
            tourney in the May
            5-7
            E Kingdom War Practice� (FYI - Tim's Household
            volunteered to help with
            Parking,
            I think?) or� (b)� the West Windsor Event/demo� (date
            unknown at this
            time).>>


            The date for the West Windsor Lions Event/Demo/Ren
            Faire is May 13th & 14th. I suspect that the
            auto-(demo)-crat <Lady Mary the Hun> might be
            interested in this.



            <<3)� The SR Newsletter and Website.
            (a)� It was offered at the meeting that we should
            include the Chatelaine
            contact
            information in the Regnum of the Newsletter.� Maybe we
            should discuss
            which
            contact information really needs to be in the
            Newsletter.� Currently
            (without the Chatelaine information), it copies the
            same information as
            in
            the Pikestaff (this might appear redundant AND it
            takes up alot space).
            What do YOU think???>>

            I have always thought the Chatalaines of the East
            Kingdom have been greatly under utilized. The various
            newsletters are usually the first contact with new
            people, therefore it should say something about the
            "new people person".


            and that's what I think.

            Lord Ichabod the Tall
            OSC, retired-chatalaine, retired-seneschal

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          • Jane & Mark Waks
            ... I suspect you won t want to schedule a championship list opposite East Kingdom Crown Tourney :-) (May 13th, in CT) --Caitlin Davies
            Message 5 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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              Steven Rosen wrote:
              >
              > <<1) SR Rattan Defender title.
              > We are currently in search of a new site. There were
              > 2 possibilities mentioned
              > during the meeting. They were (a) including the
              > tourney in the May 5-7
              > E Kingdom War Practice (FYI - Tim's Household
              > volunteered to help with
              > Parking, I think?) or (b) the West Windsor Event/demo (date
              > unknown at this time).>>
              >
              > The date for the West Windsor Lions Event/Demo/Ren
              > Faire is May 13th & 14th. I suspect that the
              > auto-(demo)-crat <Lady Mary the Hun> might be
              > interested in this.

              I suspect you won't want to schedule a championship list
              opposite East Kingdom Crown Tourney :-) (May 13th, in CT)

              --Caitlin Davies
            • Janet Anderson
              ... I think I m with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should* be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic Defenders,
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                >BTW, Timothy spoke with His Highness Balfar at 12th Night regarding the
                >Rattan
                >Tourney and what to call the winner. His Highness's preference is that the
                >Rattan
                >Tourney be for the *Southern Region Army Champion*, rather than the SR
                >Rattan
                >Defender which is what we've been going by.
                >

                I think I'm with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should*
                be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic
                Defenders, or whatever we end up calling them, who don't have to be in the
                Southern Region.


                Dorigen

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              • Jenne Heise
                ... Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don t belong to the SR Army, I believe. Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                  > I think I'm with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should*
                  > be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic
                  > Defenders, or whatever we end up calling them, who don't have to be in the
                  > Southern Region.

                  Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't belong to the SR
                  Army, I believe.

                  Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise jenne@...
                  disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for me...

                  "Now it's 'Let him live in freedom, if he lives like me.'" -- Jim Croce
                • Michael Macchione
                  ... And I believe that when we first started to come up with the idea for this event was to have it open to every fighter in the southern region. This is part
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                    On Tue, 11 Jan 2000, Jenne Heise wrote:

                    > From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
                    >
                    > > I think I'm with His Highness on this. A Southern Region champion *should*
                    > > be in the Southern Region Army. This should not be like the Bardic
                    > > Defenders, or whatever we end up calling them, who don't have to be in the
                    > > Southern Region.
                    >
                    > Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't belong to the SR
                    > Army, I believe.

                    And I believe that when we first started to come up with the idea for
                    this event was to have it open to every fighter in the southern region.
                    This is part of a unity effort... you can't unify if you try to exclude
                    certain people.

                    Kael
                  • John Pyrich
                    ... You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep when I am able to fight. (long
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                      | Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't
                      | belong to the SR Army, I believe.

                      You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am
                      squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep
                      when I am able to fight. (long story).

                      However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                      to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                      think that is too much to ask.

                      Griffyn ap Madoc
                      ----------------
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                    • Katie Yoquinto
                      I tend to disagree with having the SR Defender have to be in the SR Army. Yes, he should be FROM the SR, but that does not automatically mean they have to be
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 11, 2000
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                        I tend to disagree with having the SR Defender have to be
                        in the SR Army. Yes, he should be FROM the SR, but that
                        does not automatically mean they have to be part of the
                        SR Army any more than you would have to be part of the NR
                        Army if you live in the North! I'm sure there could be
                        some compromise on name!

                        Also I feel that all the information possible should be
                        listed in any newsletters to make it easier for new
                        people to get the information they need (with
                        explanations of what everyone does!) I know when I first
                        joined (too many years ago to count!) I had no idea which
                        way to turn or how to get information!

                        Lady Ceridwyn Paxton

                        Katie
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                      • BriannaHs@xxx.xxx
                        ... There were a lot of other comments on this thread that I believe are pertinant but I didn t want to get quote crazy … I agree with Griffyn. There are a
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 12, 2000
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                          In a message dated 1/11/00 5:58:08 PM, pyrich@... writes:

                          >| Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't
                          >| belong to the SR Army, I believe.
                          >
                          >You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am
                          >squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep
                          >when I am able to fight. (long story).
                          >
                          >However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                          >to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                          >think that is too much to ask.
                          >
                          >Griffyn ap Madoc

                          There were a lot of other comments on this thread that I believe are
                          pertinant but I didn't want to get 'quote crazy'�

                          I agree with Griffyn. There are a lot of fighters out there who live within
                          the region, but due to other fealty (being squired to a non-SR Region knight,
                          for example) do not normally participate as a member of the SR Army. It has
                          been my personal experience that in situations like this, if a non-Army
                          fighter wins the Championship, there would there be no conflict in they then
                          fighting with the Army. It would be a positive reflection on whoever they
                          owed fealty to.

                          I believe as long as the requirements are made clear at the beginning, you
                          must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the SR Army when assembled,
                          I don't think that there will be any conflicts.

                          Regarding the title of the position, Champion IS a lot better than Rattan
                          Defender but, and I say this without having any other suggestion at the
                          moment, could we find a different title? "Champion" is, IMHO, overused, yes
                          it is an appropriate term but we have a Champion for EVERYTHING it seems. Can
                          we find something a little different? I thought Defender was a decent
                          alternative, if you drop the 'Rattan'. Just another thought to throw in the
                          game.

                          Lady Brianna Healfseaxe
                          ShadowMaker, Ltd.
                          House of the Winged Serpent
                          Barony of Carillion
                        • Chris Lubrecht
                          Defender of the Nether Region ?? *duck* *slap* Bad Mongol..bad bad Mongol.... Batujin ... From: BriannaHs@aol.com To: EKSouth@onelist.com
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 12, 2000
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                            Defender of the Nether Region ??

                            *duck*

                            *slap*

                            Bad Mongol..bad bad Mongol....


                            Batujin


                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: BriannaHs@... <BriannaHs@...>
                            To: EKSouth@onelist.com <EKSouth@onelist.com>
                            Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 5:44 PM
                            Subject: Re: [EKSouth] SR Meeting Minutes/EK South discussion topics


                            >From: BriannaHs@...
                            >
                            >
                            >In a message dated 1/11/00 5:58:08 PM, pyrich@... writes:
                            >
                            >>| Um. There are fighters in the Southern Region who don't
                            >>| belong to the SR Army, I believe.
                            >>
                            >>You are correct. I, myself, fall into that category as I am
                            >>squire to Master Rolf Gunnarson and I fight with the Weresheep
                            >>when I am able to fight. (long story).
                            >>
                            >>However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                            >>to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                            >>think that is too much to ask.
                            >>
                            >>Griffyn ap Madoc
                            >
                            >There were a lot of other comments on this thread that I believe are
                            >pertinant but I didn't want to get 'quote crazy'
                            >
                            >I agree with Griffyn. There are a lot of fighters out there who live within
                            >the region, but due to other fealty (being squired to a non-SR Region
                            knight,
                            >for example) do not normally participate as a member of the SR Army. It has
                            >been my personal experience that in situations like this, if a non-Army
                            >fighter wins the Championship, there would there be no conflict in they
                            then
                            >fighting with the Army. It would be a positive reflection on whoever they
                            >owed fealty to.
                            >
                            >I believe as long as the requirements are made clear at the beginning, you
                            >must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the SR Army when
                            assembled,
                            >I don't think that there will be any conflicts.
                            >
                            >Regarding the title of the position, Champion IS a lot better than Rattan
                            >Defender but, and I say this without having any other suggestion at the
                            >moment, could we find a different title? "Champion" is, IMHO, overused, yes
                            >it is an appropriate term but we have a Champion for EVERYTHING it seems.
                            Can
                            >we find something a little different? I thought Defender was a decent
                            >alternative, if you drop the 'Rattan'. Just another thought to throw in the
                            >game.
                            >
                            >Lady Brianna Healfseaxe
                            >ShadowMaker, Ltd.
                            >House of the Winged Serpent
                            >Barony of Carillion
                            >
                            >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
                            >
                            >Get great offers on top-notch products that match your interests!
                            >Sign up for eLerts at:
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                            >
                            >
                          • MIKEnJUDYC@xxx.xxx
                            In a message dated 1/11/2000 5:58:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, pyrich@concentric.net writes:
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 12, 2000
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                              In a message dated 1/11/2000 5:58:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                              pyrich@... writes:

                              <<
                              However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                              to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                              think that is too much to ask.
                              >>

                              It's Not? This automatically excludes people. There are many fighters who
                              live in the SR who don't fight with the SR army. There may easily be more
                              that don't fight with it than those that do. Some people don't want to fight
                              with the SR, mainly because they are fighting with another group, or who
                              don't want to fight with anyone at all. I doubt that I could win the tourney,
                              but if there is a requirement to fight with the SR, i can't even enter, as
                              winning it would mean I could not fight with my knight, my unit, or my man at
                              arms, at war practices all through the summer, and at Pennsic. So YES, it is
                              too much to ask.

                              Doing events to help unite the southern region is good. Doing an event that
                              divides the SR is bad. If you start doing this now, you might as well scrap
                              the whole idea, as you will be doing more harm than good.

                              I have to believe, since it is such a stupendously bad idea, that somehow the
                              idea has got garbled. Have the event, have a tournament, and let anyone who
                              lives in the SR enter.

                              Mikhaila
                            • Chris Lubrecht
                              ... fight ... tourney, ... at ... is ... Ok.. lets look at it differently. I am a Hordesman.. if I go out and win King or Queen s Champion, by your definition,
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                                >From: MIKEnJUDYC@...
                                >
                                >In a message dated 1/11/2000 5:58:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                                >pyrich@... writes:
                                >
                                ><<
                                > However, I think that the SR "Rattan Defender" should be expected
                                > to fight with the SR Army while holding the title. I do not
                                > think that is too much to ask.
                                > >>
                                >
                                >It's Not? This automatically excludes people. There are many fighters who
                                >live in the SR who don't fight with the SR army. There may easily be more
                                >that don't fight with it than those that do. Some people don't want to
                                fight
                                >with the SR, mainly because they are fighting with another group, or who
                                >don't want to fight with anyone at all. I doubt that I could win the
                                tourney,
                                >but if there is a requirement to fight with the SR, i can't even enter, as
                                >winning it would mean I could not fight with my knight, my unit, or my man
                                at
                                >arms, at war practices all through the summer, and at Pennsic. So YES, it
                                is
                                >too much to ask.



                                Ok.. lets look at it differently. I am a Hordesman.. if I go out and win
                                King or Queen's Champion, by your definition, I could still just go fight
                                with the Horde.. even if they fought with the Midrealm. Sorry, but
                                IMHO..that logic is skewed. Your prince/King has made a request as a
                                condition of the title.. and it actually is a small one. If someone wants
                                the title, they should be willing to live by the conditions of the title. If
                                you can't live with it.. don't fight. Yes..this excludes people. Jobs
                                exclude people that don;t have the skills, hobbies exclude people who cannot
                                meet the obligations. That is all just part of it.


                                I know if I won the tourney.. My knight would understand and would give his
                                go-ahead.. as would my squire bros.. My Khan would even give the ok, as such
                                a thing would bring greater honor to those I am affiliated with more
                                regularly.


                                Batujin Ba'atur
                                Great Dark Horde
                              • Philip & Susan Troy
                                ... And this hobby is pretty liberal in that while it may exclude people who can t meet certain obligations from particular roles in the game, it actually
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                                  Chris Lubrecht wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Your prince/King has made a request as a
                                  > condition of the title.. and it actually is a small one. If someone wants
                                  > the title, they should be willing to live by the conditions of the title. If
                                  > you can't live with it.. don't fight. Yes..this excludes people. Jobs
                                  > exclude people that don;t have the skills, hobbies exclude people who cannot
                                  > meet the obligations. That is all just part of it.

                                  And this hobby is pretty liberal in that while it may exclude people who
                                  can't meet certain obligations from particular roles in the game, it
                                  actually excludes almost nobody unilaterally. And I say "almost" only
                                  because I assume somebody will think of an exception if I simply say,
                                  "nobody". The fact that, say, I can't be king of the East (at least I
                                  assume this as a likelihood) doesn't mean I can't play. When I was a kid
                                  and we chose up sides for baseball, I always got to play, but I rarely,
                                  if ever, got to pitch. Waaaa!

                                  And I really wanted to be a brain surgeon, but I'm excluded!!!

                                  BTW: Crown Tourneys exclude plenty of people, including non-qualified,
                                  non-fighters, residents of another Kingdom, and, implicitly related to
                                  the previous, people without a reasonable expectation of doing the job
                                  of reigning. If the Southern Region Champion, or whatever the title ends
                                  up being, is open to anybody, and doesn't connect to some regional
                                  entity such as the Southern Region Army, how about calling the winner
                                  the 5/17 Tourney Winner?

                                  Adamantius
                                  --
                                  Phil & Susan Troy

                                  troy@...
                                • Timothy & Gabrielle Taylor
                                  ... Just to clarify - the event originally scheduled for the weekend April 14-16, is no longer happening. There was a verbal contract for the site several
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                                    MIKEnJUDYC@... wrote:

                                    > I have to believe, since it is such a stupendously bad idea, that somehow the
                                    > idea has got garbled. Have the event, have a tournament, and let anyone who
                                    > lives in the SR enter.
                                    >
                                    > Mikhaila

                                    Just to clarify - the event originally scheduled for the weekend April 14-16, is
                                    no longer happening. There was a verbal contract for the site several months
                                    ago, but when it came time to get it in writing the contact suddenly became
                                    inaccessible because the site was actually not available that weekend.

                                    An offer was made by Owl's Reste to do the tourney the Sunday of their Spring War
                                    Practice, May 4-6th.

                                    Gabrielle
                                  • DRosen105@xxx.xxx
                                    Why would you want to be the SR defender if you have no intentions of defending the Sounthern Region? If you take all meaning out of the title, what s the
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jan 13, 2000
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                                      Why would you want to be the "SR defender" if you have no intentions of
                                      defending the Sounthern Region? If you take all meaning out of the title,
                                      what's the point of having it in the first place?
                                      Rupert the Unbalanced
                                    • Beth Ann Snead
                                      ... The biggest problem with this approach is that there is a *significant* percentage of the SR population that will find this requirement intolerable. Will
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jan 15, 2000
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                                        > I believe as long as the requirements are made clear
                                        > at the beginning, you
                                        > must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the
                                        > SR Army when assembled,
                                        > I don't think that there will be any conflicts.

                                        The biggest problem with this approach is that there
                                        is a *significant* percentage of the SR population
                                        that will find this requirement intolerable.

                                        Will there be any conflicts? Maybe not. Most likely
                                        these fighters will simply feel that they are unable
                                        to fight in the tourney. They would feel excluded and
                                        most likely their reaction would be to distance
                                        themselves from this movement entirely.

                                        By simply holding this hypothetical tourney so much
                                        damage would be done to the Southern Region that this
                                        whole process of identity building and unification
                                        would be impossible.

                                        Is one tourney worth risking all you are trying to
                                        build here?

                                        However, this whole post has been hypothetical because
                                        I simply don't feel that limiting the tourney to those
                                        willing to fight with the SRA was the intention of His
                                        Highness. Until that has been verified, I think more
                                        damage is being done by this thread than is warranted.

                                        Peyton
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                                      • Chris Lubrecht
                                        ... Which in itself.. bugs me. Would they find the same requirement harsh, if it was for the Principality throne? I can t imagine someone fighting with their
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jan 17, 2000
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                                          >From: Beth Ann Snead <ladypeyton@...>
                                          >
                                          >> I believe as long as the requirements are made clear
                                          >> at the beginning, you
                                          >> must be a SR citizen & you WILL be fighting with the
                                          >> SR Army when assembled,
                                          >> I don't think that there will be any conflicts.
                                          >
                                          >The biggest problem with this approach is that there
                                          >is a *significant* percentage of the SR population
                                          >that will find this requirement intolerable.

                                          Which in itself.. bugs me. Would they find the same requirement harsh, if it
                                          was for the Principality throne? I can't imagine someone fighting with their
                                          Northern loyalties, if they held the Princedom of the SR. Frankly, there
                                          are bunches of tournements that carry a similar weight with winning. Most
                                          fighters should be able to accept that. It is simply dishonorable to win a
                                          championship, and then not be willing to fight with the group you are
                                          championing.


                                          >
                                          >Will there be any conflicts? Maybe not. Most likely
                                          >these fighters will simply feel that they are unable
                                          >to fight in the tourney. They would feel excluded and
                                          >most likely their reaction would be to distance
                                          >themselves from this movement entirely.


                                          Maybe.. but that would be a flaw in logic. That's like saying.. "I can't
                                          hold to the responsabilities of crown.. so I won't fight crown.".. and then
                                          distanceing yourself from the kingdom because that is unfair.


                                          >
                                          >By simply holding this hypothetical tourney so much
                                          >damage would be done to the Southern Region that this
                                          >whole process of identity building and unification
                                          >would be impossible.

                                          If this is so, then the south is full of crybaby fighters.. and woe to us,
                                          for we are weak.


                                          >
                                          >Is one tourney worth risking all you are trying to
                                          >build here?
                                          >


                                          Maybe it is.. perhaps it will show the character of the region.

                                          Batujin Ba'atur
                                          Great Dark Horde
                                        • ASinou@aol.com
                                          Batu, I think there is something that you are missing here. Come to practice on Wednesday if you like and I will explain to you. This is all just a
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jan 17, 2000
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                                            Batu,

                                            I think there is something that you are missing here. Come to practice on
                                            Wednesday if you like and I will explain to you.
                                            This is all just a misunderstanding, that seems to be very difficult to
                                            clear up over email. I sometimes think that this form of communication leaves
                                            much to be desired.
                                            I think that if we all understood what was going on here, we would find
                                            many of us are on the same page of music.

                                            I salute all of you who are strong in your convictions. I praise all who
                                            choose not to remain ignorant-


                                            Please have a great day all,


                                            Sir Andreas
                                          • Chris Lubrecht
                                            -- ... on ... Well.. unless you have baby sitting at your practice.. it might be tough for me to get there. (I am just afraid that my twins would beat all
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jan 17, 2000
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                                              --

                                              >From: ASinou@...
                                              >
                                              >Batu,
                                              >
                                              > I think there is something that you are missing here. Come to practice
                                              on
                                              >Wednesday if you like and I will explain to you.

                                              Well.. unless you have baby sitting at your practice.. it might be tough for
                                              me to get there. (I am just afraid that my twins would beat all your guys
                                              up :) Hate to embarass everyone and all :) ((Note: This is funnier if you
                                              know my kids :) )))

                                              I don't know what I could be missing. The actual details of SR Army/Non-SR
                                              Army matter very little to me. Really what is flipping my button is people
                                              complaining that a tournement prize might carry some responsability, that it
                                              may cause them to have to fight apart from their friends. That is what I
                                              was addressing really. I don't see it as more than that.

                                              I just don't think the details are important. Honor should not be condition
                                              based.


                                              But.. I'll keep it open until someone clues me in to whatever it is that I
                                              am missing. ATM.. I see this as a fairly black and white issue.


                                              Batu
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