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Re: Checks at Troll -- Last Minute Attendance

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  • Lew Wolkoff
    Emil Stecher ... Of course, I don t expect for space at the feast. I ll ask for it, but I won t be shocked if it s full. I ve autocrated enough times to be
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 16, 1999
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      Emil Stecher

      >When you go to an event at the last minute, you accept that you may not get
      >space at the feast, don't you? You just have to accept paying cash as a
      >similar penance. The "extra money to cover Troll" is probably going to
      >amount to a single $20 bill. I can't see that as make or break.

      Of course, I don't expect for space at the feast. I'll ask for it, but I
      won't be shocked if it's full. I've autocrated enough times to be happy for
      the group holding the event. They have a better chance of having a
      successful event.

      But, if I know that there's room at the feast, I can bring food from home or
      plan to go to a nearby fast food place. Cost in cash is minimal. Having to
      put together $5 for a Whopper meal is easier than having to carry $15 for a
      Troll.

      Personally, I can do either, I'm a middle-aged bureaucrat who gets a nice
      paycheck every couple of weeks. (Even so, I do run sort on rare occasion.)
      Some of our members are a lot less well-paid than I am. Some are un- or
      under-employed. Some are students. Some are family groups, where the
      question is two, three, four, or even more Troll fees to pay.

      For all of these, "trapping, skinning and curing" the cash still is a
      problem that needs to be considered.

      If only as a matter of Courtesy.

      Eleazar.
    • Emil Stecher
      ... OK, so you are knowingly giving the event a check for which you do not have sufficient funds, counting on the check not being cashed before you can cover
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 18, 1999
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        --- Lew Wolkoff <lwolkoff@...> wrote:
        > Emil Stecher

        > put together $5 for a Whopper meal is easier than
        > having to carry $15 for a
        > Troll.
        >
        > Personally, I can do either, I'm a middle-aged
        > bureaucrat who gets a nice
        > paycheck every couple of weeks. (Even so, I do run
        > sort on rare occasion.)

        OK, so you are knowingly giving the event a check for
        which you do not have sufficient funds, counting on
        the check not being cashed before you can cover it.
        I'd say that is an excellent illustration of why
        checks should not be taken at the door. Suppose the
        check gets processed before your next paycheck covers
        it, or after
        another large check has just emptied your account
        again?

        If you can't afford the cash, can you really afford
        the event?

        > Some of our members are a lot less well-paid than I
        > am. Some are un- or
        > under-employed. Some are students. Some are family
        > groups, where the
        > question is two, three, four, or even more Troll
        > fees to pay.
        >
        > For all of these, "trapping, skinning and curing"
        > the cash still is a
        > problem that needs to be considered.
        >
        The SCA is a recreational organization. It is not a
        neccessity. If a family doesn't have enough spare cash
        to go to an event, I question whether they should go
        at all. Better they should save the money for
        neccessities, and we should not encourage them to
        waste the money frivolously.


        > If only as a matter of Courtesy.

        If you are correct and we are tempting poor people to
        waste their money on passing fancies, then I think it
        is a greater discourtesy to encourage them to spend
        beyond their means by accepting prommisory notes they
        may not be able to redeem.

        Barak Raz
        (Emil M Stecher)
        (gwrgi@...)

        =====
      • Dave Calafrancesco
        Greetings from Haraldr Bassi ... I don t read that from what he says at all. I read that even a regularly paid mature paper pusher can sometimes have a mistake
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 18, 1999
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          Greetings from Haraldr Bassi

          --- Emil Stecher <gwrgi@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > --- Lew Wolkoff <lwolkoff@...> wrote:
          > > Emil Stecher
          >
          > > put together $5 for a Whopper meal is easier than
          > > having to carry $15 for a
          > > Troll.
          > >
          > > Personally, I can do either, I'm a middle-aged
          > > bureaucrat who gets a nice
          > > paycheck every couple of weeks. (Even so, I do run
          > > sort on rare occasion.)
          >
          > OK, so you are knowingly giving the event a check for
          > which you do not have sufficient funds, counting on
          > the check not being cashed before you can cover it.
          > I'd say that is an excellent illustration of why
          > checks should not be taken at the door. Suppose the
          > check gets processed before your next paycheck covers
          > it, or after
          > another large check has just emptied your account
          > again?

          I don't read that from what he says at all. I read that even a regularly paid
          mature paper pusher can sometimes have a mistake or other problem creep into a
          check book. The people who experience a mistake in accounting, or a bank error
          etc are almost exclusively appologetic and contrite and have an overwhelming
          desire to make the check good paying all penalties and appologizing all the
          way. Those people are not what the original proposed policy was designed to
          address.

          It is the people who when confronted with their returned item get defensive,
          abusive, and create a lousy environment for an exchequer to do their job that
          we need to address. Having a local exchequer work for 6 months to collect a bad
          check is absurd. The question is how can we identify these people and what can
          we do about it once we identify them.

          I believe we are all agreed that mistakes happen even to the best of us, and
          that people should be given a chance to fix their mistakes and if fixed
          painlessly should have the fact of the mistake not stand in their way in the
          future. I believe we are also agreed that once we identify one of the other
          sort, the type who gets abusive to an exchequer who patiently and politely
          attempts to collect on a bad check for several months, we should remove the SCA
          and it's volunteers from having to be subjected to any further abuse from that
          person. The first and most effective way to do that is to no longer accept
          checks from that one person. Should a local group decide to be trusting of
          everyone, perhaps because checking names against a list is too onerous, then
          they would get less sympathy from their kingdom exchequer. The other option of
          removing the abusive check bouncer from the entirety of the kingdom should be
          reserved for egregious behaviour.

          > If you can't afford the cash, can you really afford
          > the event?
          >
          > > Some of our members are a lot less well-paid than I
          > > am. Some are un- or
          > > under-employed. Some are students. Some are family
          > > groups, where the
          > > question is two, three, four, or even more Troll
          > > fees to pay.
          > >
          > > For all of these, "trapping, skinning and curing"
          > > the cash still is a
          > > problem that needs to be considered.
          > >
          > The SCA is a recreational organization. It is not a
          > neccessity. If a family doesn't have enough spare cash
          > to go to an event, I question whether they should go
          > at all. Better they should save the money for
          > neccessities, and we should not encourage them to
          > waste the money frivolously.

          It isn't a matter of having the money to attend an event, but of carrying that
          money in the form of cash. I have been ever so happier now that Pennsic allows
          prepayment to no longer have to fork over several hundred in cash to troll
          through. Most of my purchases are made via plastic at Pennsic for reasons of
          personal accounting and preference.

          > > If only as a matter of Courtesy.
          >
          > If you are correct and we are tempting poor people to
          > waste their money on passing fancies, then I think it
          > is a greater discourtesy to encourage them to spend
          > beyond their means by accepting prommisory notes they
          > may not be able to redeem.

          We should reserve our most loving protections for those that bounce regularly,
          or having bounced once are nasty and discourteos about it.

          Haraldr Bassi


          =====
          Dave Calafrancesco
        • kathe1@xxxx.xxx
          ... Don t want to add to the argument here, since I ve never seen this letter that people have referred to (and I m a local Exchequer! Lorcan?), but some of
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 19, 1999
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            > If you can't afford the cash, can you really afford
            > the event?

            Don't want to add to the argument here, since I've never seen this letter
            that people have referred to (and I'm a local Exchequer! Lorcan?), but
            some of you are missing a point. As a current Corporate and former
            Kingdom officer, I sometimes attend events strictly to carry on business
            of the office. For example, many years ago, Curia was held during the day
            at 100 Minutes War. I went to the event strictly to go to Curia, and paid
            admission to the event. Didn't stay for the fighting or the feast. This
            is tax deductible for those of us who itemize. Since not all events give
            receipts, I have frequently paid by check, even if I didn't know until
            the last minute that I was going to an event. Cancelled check = receipt.
            Not being able to afford the event had nothing to do with it. People have
            lots of reasons for using checks. We took three of them at the door on
            Saturday and the event fee was only $4.00!

            Julleran
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