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9618RE: [EKSouth] Changes to the Amror Standards

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  • Alissa Pyrich
    May 3 12:55 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      And if I, as the local herald, tried to hand off the
      toast to the Crown to the King's Champion (currently
      unbelted), there'd be Peers, Counts and Dukes *and*
      my Baron and Baroness jumping down my throat within
      mere seconds.
       
      I submit that  custom that no one currently recalls
      is no longer the custom.
       
      Alys
       
       
       

      >
      > <EKSouth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   > > >

      > That is an interesting idea, but in my 20 years in
      > the East I have never
      > seen that done.
      >
      >
      >
      > Griffith
      >
      > From: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com [mailto:EKSouth@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
      > Albrecht
      > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 2:53 PM
      > To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      > s a challenge.
      > If the champion isn't present, then it falls to the
      > senior peer present.
      >
      > Albrecht
      >
      > My understanding of the tradition
      >
      > Joel Doner wrote:
      > > Taranach:
      > >
      > > If I have slighted you by what I have said about
      > knowing Eastern
      > traditions, I apologize. If the Peers and older members
      > of our Kingdom have
      > not been communicating these traditions and cultural
      > values, then we have
      > failed, not you.
      > >
      > > Many of the traditions and values that are passed
      > down in the SCA are
      > through the many Teacher/Student relationships, ie
      > Knight/Squire,
      > Laurel/Apprentice, Don/Cadet, etc. Much of what I
      > have learned was from my
      > former Knight, my Pelican and thier peers.
      > >
      > > Some of what I learned was from standing in the
      > back of the common tent,
      > watching and listening to those who were here before
      > me. Sometimes, someone
      > would flat out tell me I made a fau paux and told
      > me according to tradition
      > what I should have been doing, or not been doing.
      > I learn things all the
      > time from others simply by talking to people who
      > have been here longer or
      > know more than me. And there are plenty of people
      > who do. There are many
      > things we learn in life that are not written, but
      > they are still important.
      > Sometimes we learn them by playing in the sandbox
      > with others.
      > >
      > > When I say I could not give justice to them in
      > this forum, I ment that. It
      > took me years of living in the East to learn them
      > and I am still learning.
      > Here are some examples of Eastern traditions and
      > cultural values that are
      > not in writing; the highest ranking peer at a feast
      > gets the honor of
      > toasting the K&Q, then we go down the line to the
      > next highest ranking peer
      > for the toast to P&P, Cooks, etc. It is tradition
      > for a peer to serve High
      > Table whenever possible. Unlike some of the Western
      > Kingdoms we do not bow
      > infront of empty throwns of the Royalty. None of
      > this is in writing, but
      > these things are important to the identity of the
      > East Kingdom.
      > >
      > > As for the validity of my arguments in this case,
      > whether you agree with
      > them or not, I think I have made my points clear
      > including those on Eastern
      > tradition. I disagree that all of these things need
      > to be written to have
      > weight in the discussion. And just because no one
      > took the time to tell you
      > what they were, doesen't lessen their importance
      > in this discussion, or make
      > them unworthy of consideration. The point is that
      > tradition and values are
      > more then the written policies or laws of the Society
      > or of the Kingdom, but
      > they do have value.
      > >
      > > Lawrence.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- On Mon, 5/3/10, Taranach McLeod <Taranach@...
      > <mailto:Taranach%40gmail.com> > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Taranach McLeod <Taranach@... <mailto:Taranach%40gmail.com> >
      >
      > > To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com <mailto:EKSouth%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 3:30 AM
      > >
      > >
      > > It is an egregious error to criticize or fault
      > people for not
      > automatically
      > > "knowing" what is not written, what is not communicated
      > and what can
      > > apparently not be explained.
      > > If these "Values" and "Traditions" cannot be effectively
      > passed along then
      > > they cannot be used as an unassailable bludgeon
      > in the defense of someones
      > > point of argument. The very act of having to say
      > "Everyone should just
      > know
      > > that" is a more than adequate indictment that such
      > traditions are NOT as
      > > widespread and well known as may be supposed. It
      > also lends itself to the
      > > observation that the person may no longer have
      > a truly valid argument to
      > > support his cause and is resorting to a phrase
      > that has no real meaning
      > for
      > > justification.
      > >
      > > Taranach
      > > "Melior morior in nostrum pedis quam inservio in
      > nostrum genua."
      > > "Tradition without intelligence is not worth having"
      > T.S. Elliot
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Joel Doner <jmdoner@...
      > <mailto:jmdoner%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >> Fairfax:
      > >>
      > >> I am not mocking you when I say, I feel bad that
      > after 15 years you have
      > >> not seen what I am talking about. That you do
      > not know the SCA I have
      > >> experienced over these many years. We don't codify
      > tradition and our
      > >> values. We shouldn't have to because they are
      > not laws. They are part of
      > our
      > >> culture. I cannot give you all of these ideas
      > or do justice to these
      > >> concepts in a few sentences or in this forum.
      > I will try to give an
      > >> example.
      > >>
      > >> I was taught one of those unwritten truths is
      > that Kingdoms were the
      > heart
      > >> and soul of the SCA. That each Kingdom is unique
      > and should be allowed to
      > >> express it's character in its own way. We as with
      > other Kingdoms take
      > pride
      > >> in our culture. Eventhough Aethelmarc, Atlantia
      > and Drachenwald all came
      > >> from the East, each of them was allowed to create
      > their own traditions,
      > >> customs and policies rergardless of how we or
      > the others Kingdoms felt.
      > >> When each of these Kingdoms were created, there
      > was never an idea that
      > they
      > >> would have to keep any of the Eastern traditions
      > they had when they were
      > >> part of our Kingdom.
      > >>
      > >> I probably did not do justice to this idea, but
      > I hope you get the
      > general
      > >> gist.
      > >>
      > >> Lawrence
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Bob Davis <bob@...
      > <mailto:bob%40reconstructinghistory.com> <bob%40reconstructinghistory.com>>
      > >> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> From: Bob Davis <bob@...
      > <mailto:bob%40reconstructinghistory.com> <bob%40reconstructinghistory.com>
      > >>
      >
      > >> To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com <mailto:EKSouth%40yahoogroups.com>
      > <EKSouth%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 7:22 AM
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Bob Davis wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>> I agree that it is no longer 1968, 1998 or even
      > 2008. But, that does
      > >>>> not mean we give up the ideas that are at the
      > heart of our Society
      > >>>> and Kingdom. Some truths, even unwritten truths
      > transcend time.
      > >>>> Perhaps that is why were are anachronists to
      > begin with and try to
      > >>>> preserve the best ideas from times long ago.
      > I don't think my
      > >>>> understanding or definition of what our society
      > should be are no
      > >>>> longer applicable as you suggested.
      > >>>>
      > >>> What ideas are these, then? Perhaps I'm too new
      > (I've only been in the
      > >>> East for 12 years, and in the SCA for 15), but
      > I can't seem to find
      > them.
      > >>>
      >
      > >>
      > >> I'm seriously asking. It seems that every time
      > a discussion comes up
      > >> that involves increasing accountability for material
      > culture someone
      > >> pipes up with this argument.
      > >>
      > >> And yet I've never seen a codified answer. I've
      > never even seen two
      > >> people - who are arguing on the same side - coincide
      > with what they
      > >> consider those "truths" and "ideas" to be.
      > >>
      > >> Somebody help me out, here. What exactly are these
      > truths? Why aren't
      >
      > >>
      > >> Sincerely,
      > >>
      > >> Fairfax
      > >>
      >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
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      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
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      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
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