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9602RE: [EKSouth] Changes to the Amror Standards

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  • Joel Doner
    May 2, 2010
      I think it's great that the Fencers did this themselves without the need for additional legislation from the SEM. 
      Do you have a problem with how SEM did this? 

      --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Joel Doner <jmdoner@...> wrote:

      From: Joel Doner <jmdoner@...>
      Subject: RE: [EKSouth] Changes to the Amror Standards
      To: EKSouth@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 9:14 AM


      My apologies for picking on the fencers. That was not my intent.
      Did the Fencers have to be legislated into the pre-17th century as done by the SEM  to the fighters, or was it done though positve encouragemen t? If was the latter, then shouldn't the fighters get the same?

      --- On Sun, 5/2/10, James Peck <theregent1@verizon. net> wrote:

      From: James Peck <theregent1@verizon. net>
      Subject: RE: [EKSouth] Changes to the Amror Standards
      To: EKSouth@yahoogroups .com
      Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 6:46 AM



      Picking on the fencers as a group in many kingdoms that was consistently in
      violation of the ‘attempt at pre-17th century appearance’ used to be 100%
      justified. I was one of those criticizing them for a long time. But no one
      should think that the willful violation went unnoticed, was accepted or

      Indeed that is one of the reasons the fencers were in many cased derided for
      years as a community.

      For the most part, the fencers have made a big change society wide and
      especially here in the East. Those playing the game according to the rules
      far exceed the number who ignore them.

      So while it probably sounds funny coming from me, the majority of the
      fencers do try to dress the part.

      In fact on average, I have to admit that the majority of fencers society
      wide often look more period correct in the lists than many heavy weapons
      fighters do.

      I still pick on the fencers who are out of period and will continue to do so
      just like I pick on any Tuchux who wear fantasy garb/armour (many have
      improved and look no different than the rest of us), but in the East the
      problem fencers are generally the exception to the rule or we are talking
      about their hand protection (I dislike some of the out of period hand
      protection there just as much as I dislike some of the heavy weapons out of
      period hand protection such as exposed hockey gloves, but that is really
      more of a safety matter). Yes I’ll pick on their rubber band guns, I still
      hate those. You should not get a peerage in my opinion if you spend any part
      of your time in the lists shooting people with rubber bands at a distance
      instead of defeating them up close and personal using your rapier, but of
      course that is only my opinion.

      In the East at least, some of the most dedicated, helpful, period accurate
      in garb or in the lists are fencers. They often put we fighters to shame by

      But this should not become a fencers vs. Tuchux. Vs. fighters comparision.

      Each group needs to do whatever is appropriate to fix problems in its area.
      For fighters, we have the exposed plastic and sports gear problem that the
      fencers don’t for the most part. In my opinion it is a problem anyway, so
      I’m glad to see it being addressed. The cavalier fencers & out of period
      17th-18th century Yarr pirates in the fencing lists are a separate problem.
      The Tuchux whom I used to want tossed out as a group, I’m learning to
      tolerate those that have stopped violating our rules; the rest can and
      should go as far as I’m concerned, but the number of bunny fur barbarians
      with fantasy armour and a bad attitude has gone down every year and I’d be
      remiss in not noting the progress there.

      It would be great if we could start finding solutions and continue working
      with each other on all these different problems as individual problems to be
      addressed, instead of using any one to justify another. “Oh, we have fencers
      who are out of period and Tuchux who don’t follow any rules, so none of our
      rules really need to be followed, people can do whatever they want, whenever
      they want and let us give up on the SCA being what it claims to be. Medieval
      appearance, an environment based on the activities of the landed nobility of
      Europe & visitors to it, chivalric ideals and knightly/noble courtesy are so
      yesterday, why bother with all that outdated nonsense. Let’s just have a
      beer, put on some steampunk outfits, play some Enya and party. ”

      I have to go to work, have fun everybody.

      Richard Blackmoore


      From: EKSouth@yahoogroups .com [mailto:EKSouth@ yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of
      apyrich@concentric. net
      Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:47 AM
      To: EKSouth@yahoogroups .com
      Subject: Re: [EKSouth] Changes to the Amror Standards

      > (Most of the fencing community is post 1600.)

      In fact, "most" of the fencing community is not post 1600. I thought we had
      put this myth to bed 15 years ago. Things that are recognizably fencing
      can be documented well prior to 1600. While there are a couple of people
      who will never be persuaded to give up their Cavalier (and bless their
      hearts), what passes for fashion among Eastern fencers trends toward
      generic Elizabethan or earlier. I'd wager than on any given day you'll find
      more Vikings on the fencing field in the East than Cavaliers. Certainly that

      was the case at King's and Queen's Fencing this year.

      In other words, don't drag the fencers into this discussion please. We're
      just going about our business peacefully over here while you all whip
      yourselves up into unnecessary hysteria.

      If the SEM's ruling bugs you, then complain to the people who can do
      something about it: the Society Earl Marshal himself and the Board of
      Directors. Here's the contact information for the ombudsman for the East

      Mark Faulcon (Duke Martin Lochner, KSCA)
      Ombudsman for: Æthelmearc, East, Middle, Information Technology
      Mr. Faulcon can be contacted at 407-826-1492 or via email at
      mfaulcon@director. <mailto:mfaulcon% 40director. sca.org> sca.org.

      Here's the contact information for the ombudsman in charge of marshal

      Tom Noble (Dux Lucius Aurelius Valharic KSCA, OL,)
      Ombudsman for: Caid, West, Arts & Sciences, Atenveldt, Artemisia,
      Mr. Noble can be contacted at 216-226-7038 or via email at
      tnoble@director. <mailto:tnoble% 40director. sca.org> sca.org.

      Cordially but wearily,
      Mistress Alys Mackyntoich
      (a Companion of the Golden Rapier and not at all post-1600)

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