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Re: [E-Chir] Scenario One

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  • tsivia@uottawa.ca
    Bravo Xristina! I like this idea (having responded to something not utterly unlike this scenario at a camping event this past year myself)... So folks:
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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      Bravo Xristina!

      I like this idea (having responded to something not utterly unlike this
      scenario at a camping event this past year myself)...

      So folks: thoughts? Comments? Ideas?

      TSivia (resting on her Laurels at the moment...)



      > Greetings everyone,
      >
      > Here is the first of the training/discussion scenarios I was talking
      > about. I am starting off fairly simple in order to help everyone become
      > comfortable with the concept of these scenarios. As you will see, I have
      > given a description of the incident and then some questions for you to
      > answer. You are free to answer these questions on this list or, if you are
      > more comfortable, send them privately to me. As discussion continues, I
      > will add more questions as needed or, if necessary, some answers. In some
      > cases there are no right or wrong answers. However, in some cases there
      > are.
      >
      > The purpose of these scenarios is to inspire discussion and to keep our
      > training percolating in our heads. Please remember that as chirugeons we
      > provide first aid. I am basing the treatments on Heart & Stroke standards,
      > as well as first aid standards.
      >
      > If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me and I will do
      > my best to answer you. Good luck and have fun with this.
      >
      > In service,
      > Xristina
      > ******************************************************************
      > Scenario 1.
      >
      > You are sitting in your camp at War of the Trilliums enjoying a bit of a
      > break from the mid day heat and the event activities when you hear a call
      > for a chirugeon. Looking around you spot someone coming up to you. They
      > don't look panicked but they do look like they're in a bit of a hurry.
      > Spotting you they yell out that someone's been hurt at the archery field
      > and that you're needed. You grab your kit and start making your way to the
      > archery field.
      >
      > 1. What kind of things should you be thinking about at this point?
      >
      > 2. What do you think should be in your basic first aid kit?
      >
      > As you approach the archery field you see a group of 2-3 people kneeling
      > around someone sitting on the ground. They are sitting in the open field
      > but are behind the archery line by a good 15 feet. Coming closer you see a
      > male about 25-30 years of age sitting on the field holding on to his left
      > ankle. He is breathing normally. He appears a bit flushed but you suspect
      > that could be due to the midday sun. When he sees you approach he grins up
      > at you as he explains that he wasn't paying attention to where he was
      > walking and stumbled into a hole in the ground and turned his ankle. He
      > states he tried to get up and did managed a couple of steps before the
      > pain got the better of him and he sat down again. When you look at the
      > ankle you see some minor swelling on the lateral side but no bruising or
      > deformities are noted. He states the pain is lessening and his ankle
      > movement is increasing as he rests.
      >
      > 3. As you get closer to the scene, what should you be looking for?
      >
      > 4. Once you are at the casualty, what's the first thing you should assess?
      > How would you do that?
      >
      > 5. What do you believe has happened to the casualty? How would you
      > determine that?
      >
      > 6. What kind of treatment would you give?
      >
      >
      > __________________________________________________________________
      > Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo!
      > Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com
    • Keith Crawley
      The mention of Archery always makes me a tad jumpy as it is my chosen (major focus) within the SCA and I know from years of shooting the potential for injuries
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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        The mention of Archery always makes me a tad jumpy as it is my chosen (major focus) within the SCA and I know from years of shooting the potential for injuries of all sorts and sizes.
         
        1. things to be thinking about. What sort of injuries could be awaiting you. the demeanour of the person asking for assistance indicates either it is not major or perhaps they are in shock from what they may have seen at the range? Talk to them to try and assess their condition and what you may be facing as you gather your kit and start making way to scene, notify someone to start searching out a phone, an autocrat and possibly some backs up just in case and have them send them to the range as soon as possible and (somewhat tongue in cheek) Ohhh the paperwork this will cause if it is a major accident on the range.
         
        2. Basic First Aid Kit. Bandages, bandages and more bandages, a variety of shapes and sizes of bandage materials, gauze pads and adhesive strip bandages etc., Triangular bandages, scissors, knife, penlight flashlight, adhesive tapes, at least one A-R mask, several pairs of rubber gloves disinfectant wipes. Beyond this depends on the size of your kit and its intended uses for the most part.  
         
        3. Your own safety and that of other rescuers or assistants and spectators. Has a hold been called on the range or can shooting continue in safety while you tend to the victim? what other hazards may exist and is their any evidence of the source of the injury.
         
        4. Breathing. From the fact the victim is grinning and able to converse it is obvious they are breathing and as there is no mention of any laboured breathing or apparent pain when speaking it would appear the breathing is normal. Observe victim while talking to them and conducting examination for any change to breathing pattern.
         
        5. A mild sprain or possible muscle pull/tear. From the evidence and history of the injury given by the victim and the apparent condition of the wound site.
         
        6. Initial treatment of rest, slight elevation of the injured limb and application of a cold pack or ice if available. Monitor injury and determine if swelling or pain are increasing or decreasing. If things appear stable or decreasing in pain and swelling, check mobility of the injured area and when the victim feels able suggest attempting light pressure on ankle and advise continued rest, cold packs and a slow return to normal activities as pain and swelling allows. If anything appears to not be improving or deteriorating in any way suggest victim seeks medical attention, immobilize injury and either notify EMS or have patient transported to medical treatment. If possible continue to check on victim for rest of day and or weekend to asses any changes or need for increased level of intervention or medical assistance.  
         
        Percival
         
         

         
        .

      • Kathleen Gormanshaw
        ... Did someone get shot by an arrow? Where s a cell phone? How far is the archery field from the road? hmm This guy who found me isn t THAT panicked! ...
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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          At 10:29 PM 1/5/2009, you wrote:
          >Greetings everyone,
          >
          >Here is the first of the training/discussion scenarios I was talking
          >about. I am starting off fairly simple in order to help everyone
          >become comfortable with the concept of these scenarios. As you will
          >see, I have given a description of the incident and then some
          >questions for you to answer. You are free to answer these questions
          >on this list or, if you are more comfortable, send them privately to
          >me. As discussion continues, I will add more questions as needed or,
          >if necessary, some answers. In some cases there are no right or
          >wrong answers. However, in some cases there are.
          >
          >The purpose of these scenarios is to inspire discussion and to keep
          >our training percolating in our heads. Please remember that as
          >chirugeons we provide first aid. I am basing the treatments on Heart
          >& Stroke standards, as well as first aid standards.
          >
          >If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me and I
          >will do my best to answer you. Good luck and have fun with this.
          >
          >In service,
          >Xristina
          >******************************************************************
          >Scenario 1.
          >
          >You are sitting in your camp at War of the Trilliums enjoying a bit
          >of a break from the mid day heat and the event activities when you
          >hear a call for a chirugeon. Looking around you spot someone coming
          >up to you. They don't look panicked but they do look like they're in
          >a bit of a hurry. Spotting you they yell out that someone's been
          >hurt at the archery field and that you're needed. You grab your kit
          >and start making your way to the archery field.
          >
          >1. What kind of things should you be thinking about at this point?

          Did someone get shot by an arrow? Where's a cell phone? How far is
          the archery field from the road? hmm This guy who found me isn't
          THAT panicked!


          >2. What do you think should be in your basic first aid kit?

          Bandaids to stop bleeding, splints to hold things in place, latex
          gloves, sugar, quarters, paper, pencil, air valve for rescue
          breathing. I'm sure there's more, hard to think of a list at once :-)


          >As you approach the archery field you see a group of 2-3 people
          >kneeling around someone sitting on the ground. They are sitting in
          >the open field but are behind the archery line by a good 15 feet.
          >Coming closer you see a male about 25-30 years of age sitting on the
          >field holding on to his left ankle. He is breathing normally. He
          >appears a bit flushed but you suspect that could be due to the
          >midday sun. When he sees you approach he grins up at you as he
          >explains that he wasn't paying attention to where he was walking and
          >stumbled into a hole in the ground and turned his ankle. He states
          >he tried to get up and did managed a couple of steps before the pain
          >got the better of him and he sat down again. When you look at the
          >ankle you see some minor swelling on the lateral side but no
          >bruising or deformities are noted. He states the pain is lessening
          >and his ankle movement is increasing as he rests.
          >
          >3. As you get closer to the scene, what should you be looking for?

          Any other dangers around? Is the Archery Marshal still watching the
          archery field? Nothing else seems likely to be dangerous at this
          point, the archery field is rarely so near other activities that
          people would trip over us by accident.


          >4. Once you are at the casualty, what's the first thing you should
          >assess? How would you do that?

          Is he breathing well? If he's grinning at me and talking easily the
          answer is yes. Is there any chance of a brain injury? If his
          conversation makes sense, and there's no pain in his head, he's
          probably fine.
          Is he bleeding anywhere else? Ask him if it hurts anywhere else than
          the ankle. Make sure I can see the front of the leg where he would
          have banged it in the hole and ask him to lift up high enough to
          check the back of the leg.

          >5. What do you believe has happened to the casualty? How would you
          >determine that?

          As long as I can see the whole he stepped in, and the others around
          him aren't concerned about what he said, I'll believe his story. I'd
          like to see the hole, see how deep it is, and see how many steps
          there are to where he's sitting. Friends might have helped him move
          somewhere more comfortable though.


          >6. What kind of treatment would you give?

          I'd get him some ice and help him raise the ankle up so that his legs
          are flat, or his ankle up a little higher than his bum. I'd ask him
          to poke and prod and tell me where it seems to hurt the worst, if it
          looked like he missed any injured areas, I'd ask him to poke those
          and tell me how it felt. I'd clean and bandage any spots that were
          scraped and bleeding. I'd explain that I have only basic first aid
          training, and no experience with real ankle injuries. I can wrap it
          up so he can't damage it further and have someone help him to the
          hospital. He can arrange for some friends to take him, or an
          ambulance, but if the first check says breathing, bleeding, and
          brains are normal I don't think an ambulance is necessary. Or, he
          can ask around for someone who's familiar with ankles, get it wrapped
          up that way, and sit for the afternoon with it elevated. I'd explain
          that the ice should go on for 10 minutes then off for 10, repeating
          for the next few hours. If the ankle ever felt worse he should go to
          the ER, if it didn't feel much better by the next day he should go to
          the ER, if it didn't feel all better in a couple days he should go
          see his family doctor.

          My training says I should advise that he see a doctor right away, but
          his demeanour suggests that he probably doesn't think it's
          necessary. If he shows any sign of wanting an ER check, I'll
          encourage it. Otherwise, I'd rather he think I was reasonable, and
          would take the advice to go to the ER if it got worse, seriously. If
          it was my ankle, and it had started feeling better with just a few
          minutes of rest, I wouldn't have gone to the ER either.

          Eyrny
          started first aid training to be a life guard 20 years ago, for the
          last 10 years or so Red Cross Standard First Aid. Currently lapsed
          in certifications.
        • Ninka
          ... Excellent point. The chances are that this incident (and the majority of incidents we come across) are not that serious and do not require EMS
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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            --- In E-Chir@yahoogroups.com, "Keith Crawley" <crawleys@...> wrote:

            > 1. things to be thinking about...notify someone to start searching
            > out a phone, an autocrat and possibly some backs up just in case
            > and have them send them to the range as soon as possible

            Excellent point. The chances are that this incident (and the majority
            of incidents we come across) are not that serious and do not require
            EMS intervention...but just in case this is a good thing to get
            started. If you were told right off the bat that the person had
            twisted thier ankle I might not be so quick to alert the autocrat (I
            suspect they would get pissed if we called them every time someone
            got a scratch). However since you were not given any information
            about the casualty condition and it was at an event activity that has
            the potential to be something quite serious I think someone finding
            the autocrat, phone and/or some back-up is a good idea.

            Does anyone have any ideas of how and when, we as chirugeon's should
            put such an action plan in place? An action plan being defined as a
            series of pre-planned events/groups of people to help make an
            emergency situation run as efficiently as possible. I usually teach
            an action plan as consisting of three people; person in charge
            (person actually doing the casualty care/first aid); call person
            (person making sure that 911 is called/alerting the autocrat); scene
            person (crowd control/EMS direction/etc). Any ideas on how this can
            be incorporated into our events? Would it be different for day events
            and large camping events?

            Xristina
          • tsivia@uottawa.ca
            ... put such an action plan in place? An action plan being defined as a series of pre-planned events/groups of people to help make an emergency situation run
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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              Xristina wrote:
              > Does anyone have any ideas of how and when, we as chirugeon's should
              put such an action plan in place? An action plan being defined as a
              series of pre-planned events/groups of people to help make an
              emergency situation run as efficiently as possible. I usually teach
              an action plan as consisting of three people; person in charge
              (person actually doing the casualty care/first aid); call person
              (person making sure that 911 is called/alerting the autocrat); scene
              person (crowd control/EMS direction/etc). Any ideas on how this can
              be incorporated into our events? Would it be different for day events
              and large camping events?


              As we've been informed by Fursto at the Chi picnics, there are THREE
              distinct addresses for the site at which Trillies is held, for one thing.
              I'd suggest that it's prudent practice for there to be an EXACT street
              address at EVERY check-in in case one of our more elderly members suddenly
              has a heart attack...

              Maybe it's time to come up with a structured action plan for Ealdormere
              events? (which of course, other Kingdoms could use if they so choose...)
              WOuldn't hurt to train folks on how to guide EMS into a remote site, for
              instance. If you haven't worked a Pennsic or Estrella you've probably
              never run into that one...

              TSivia
            • Jackie Wyatt
              Maybe it s time to come up with a structured action plan for Ealdormere events? (which of course, other Kingdoms could use if they so choose...) WOuldn t hurt
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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                "Maybe it's time to come up with a structured action plan for Ealdormere
                events? (which of course, other Kingdoms could use if they so choose...)
                WOuldn't hurt to train folks on how to guide EMS into a remote site, for
                instance. If you haven't worked a Pennsic or Estrella you've probably
                never run into that one... TSivia"

                I agree, with the added suggestion that either an FAQ or specifically-Ealdormerian handbook be created? I admit it's been a while since I've really thoroughly read the society one, but I do remember it being a bit vague about things due to having to cover the Knowne Worlde and it would be nice to have some clarifications expecially as they relate to mundane laws here in Ontario. As an example, I can't seem to find the instructions relating to contacting the Kingdom Chirurgeon within 24 hours of having to call an ambulance (though it's possible I missed it somewhere in there with my keyword searching- I didn't have the time to thoroughly read the manual).

                Medb
              • Keith Crawley
                On the subject of a Kingdom Plan, Way back in the days of Aisilines tenure as Kingdom Chirurgeon I was fairly new to the SCA but because of my professional as
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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                  On the subject of a Kingdom Plan, Way back in the days of Aisilines tenure as Kingdom Chirurgeon I was fairly new to the SCA but because of my professional as well as voluntary experiences (9-1-1 dispatcher, Red Cross Emergency Services Manager {sat on the committee that developed Halton Regions Emergency Response Plan}, Scouts Canada Emergency Services Provider) was very loosely involved as a chirurgeon. During this time Aisiline attended an SCA gathering (not sure if it was a Known World Chirurgeons meeting or something else) and out of this came ideas for Emergency Response planning for major events. While the details escape me at this time I do recall that all major War Events and several Kingdoms had them, were working on them or at least had looked into it. Aisiline asked me to have input into an Emergency plan for Ealdormere and particularly our larger camping type events. Once this plan was put together Aisiline presented it to the Privy Council of the day. Once again I do not know what the exact wording of their response was but the way it came down to us in common language was the Kingdom was not interested and their reasoning were based upon Plausible Deniability. They basically said, if we have an official or formal plan and it fails in some way we (Ealdormere or the SCA) could be held liable, however if there is no plan and we do what we are trained to do under standard first aid training protocols etc. the Kingdom cant be held liable for our failings. 
                   
                  I don't know if Aisiline still has any of the info or plans we worked on at the time but perhaps a re thinking of this issue and a better job of selling it to Privy Council may be due? I realize this was a "major emergency" type plan but perhaps incorporating smaller response planning as mentioned (3 people plan as mentioned etc.) into such an over all plan may work?
                   
                  Percival  
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:24 PM
                  Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: Scenario One

                  Xristina wrote:
                  > Does anyone have any ideas of how and when, we as chirugeon's should
                  put such an action plan in place? An action plan being defined as a
                  series of pre-planned events/groups of people to help make an
                  emergency situation run as efficiently as possible. I usually teach
                  an action plan as consisting of three people; person in charge
                  (person actually doing the casualty care/first aid); call person
                  (person making sure that 911 is called/alerting the autocrat); scene
                  person (crowd control/EMS direction/etc) . Any ideas on how this can
                  be incorporated into our events? Would it be different for day events
                  and large camping events?

                  As we've been informed by Fursto at the Chi picnics, there are THREE
                  distinct addresses for the site at which Trillies is held, for one thing.
                  I'd suggest that it's prudent practice for there to be an EXACT street
                  address at EVERY check-in in case one of our more elderly members suddenly
                  has a heart attack...

                  Maybe it's time to come up with a structured action plan for Ealdormere
                  events? (which of course, other Kingdoms could use if they so choose...)
                  WOuldn't hurt to train folks on how to guide EMS into a remote site, for
                  instance. If you haven't worked a Pennsic or Estrella you've probably
                  never run into that one...

                  TSivia

                • Kim
                  Perhaps it would be a good start to develop a ready sheet for autocrats. It could list things like the exact street address of the site and phone number,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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                    Perhaps it would be a good start to develop a "ready" sheet for autocrats. It could list things like the exact street address of the site and phone number, locations of landlines, location of AED (if there is one on site), doors that an ambulance could access.
                     
                    Then it could be collected by the chirurgeon in charge or even multiples so that we all have the information.
                     
                    Kaellyn
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:53 PM
                    Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: Scenario One

                    On the subject of a Kingdom Plan, Way back in the days of Aisilines tenure as Kingdom Chirurgeon I was fairly new to the SCA but because of my professional as well as voluntary experiences (9-1-1 dispatcher, Red Cross Emergency Services Manager {sat on the committee that developed Halton Regions Emergency Response Plan}, Scouts Canada Emergency Services Provider) was very loosely involved as a chirurgeon. During this time Aisiline attended an SCA gathering (not sure if it was a Known World Chirurgeons meeting or something else) and out of this came ideas for Emergency Response planning for major events. While the details escape me at this time I do recall that all major War Events and several Kingdoms had them, were working on them or at least had looked into it. Aisiline asked me to have input into an Emergency plan for Ealdormere and particularly our larger camping type events. Once this plan was put together Aisiline presented it to the Privy Council of the day. Once again I do not know what the exact wording of their response was but the way it came down to us in common language was the Kingdom was not interested and their reasoning were based upon Plausible Deniability. They basically said, if we have an official or formal plan and it fails in some way we (Ealdormere or the SCA) could be held liable, however if there is no plan and we do what we are trained to do under standard first aid training protocols etc. the Kingdom cant be held liable for our failings. 
                     
                    I don't know if Aisiline still has any of the info or plans we worked on at the time but perhaps a re thinking of this issue and a better job of selling it to Privy Council may be due? I realize this was a "major emergency" type plan but perhaps incorporating smaller response planning as mentioned (3 people plan as mentioned etc.) into such an over all plan may work?
                     
                    Percival  
                     
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:24 PM
                    Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: Scenario One

                    Xristina wrote:
                    > Does anyone have any ideas of how and when, we as chirugeon's should
                    put such an action plan in place? An action plan being defined as a
                    series of pre-planned events/groups of people to help make an
                    emergency situation run as efficiently as possible. I usually teach
                    an action plan as consisting of three people; person in charge
                    (person actually doing the casualty care/first aid); call person
                    (person making sure that 911 is called/alerting the autocrat); scene
                    person (crowd control/EMS direction/etc) . Any ideas on how this can
                    be incorporated into our events? Would it be different for day events
                    and large camping events?

                    As we've been informed by Fursto at the Chi picnics, there are THREE
                    distinct addresses for the site at which Trillies is held, for one thing.
                    I'd suggest that it's prudent practice for there to be an EXACT street
                    address at EVERY check-in in case one of our more elderly members suddenly
                    has a heart attack...

                    Maybe it's time to come up with a structured action plan for Ealdormere
                    events? (which of course, other Kingdoms could use if they so choose...)
                    WOuldn't hurt to train folks on how to guide EMS into a remote site, for
                    instance. If you haven't worked a Pennsic or Estrella you've probably
                    never run into that one...

                    TSivia

                  • tudorpot@gmail.com
                    A good suggestion--I made a similar one last year after attending an event and no one being able to tell me where the nearest hospital was. Other info - local
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 6, 2009
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                      A good suggestion--I made a similar one last year after attending an event and no one being able to tell me where the nearest hospital was. Other info - local pharmacy-location and hours, dental emergency clinic, and perhaps local veterinarian for our companions.

                      Freda


                      On Jan 6, 2009, at 10:10 PM, Kim wrote:

                      Perhaps it would be a good start to develop a "ready" sheet for autocrats. It could list things like the exact street address of the site and phone number, locations of landlines, location of AED (if there is one on site), doors that an ambulance could access.
                       
                      Then it could be collected by the chirurgeon in charge or even multiples so that we all have the information

                    • Kathleen Gormanshaw
                      At 10:10 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: Perhaps it would be a good start to develop a ready sheet for autocrats. It could list things like the exact street address
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 7, 2009
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                        At 10:10 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote:
                        Perhaps it would be a good start to develop a "ready" sheet for autocrats. It could list things like the exact street address of the site and phone number, locations of landlines, location of AED (if there is one on site), doors that an ambulance could access.
                         
                        Then it could be collected by the chirurgeon in charge or even multiples so that we all have the information.

                        And a copy left at the troll for anyone else who needed the info.

                        Eyrny
                      • Ninka
                        ... for Ealdormere events? I have to admit when I asked the action plan question I was not thinking anywhere near trying to make policy changes for the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 7, 2009
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                          --- In E-Chir@yahoogroups.com, Jackie Wyatt <jkwyatt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > "Maybe it's time to come up with a structured action plan >
                          for Ealdormere events?

                          I have to admit when I asked the 'action plan' question I was not
                          thinking anywhere near trying to make policy changes for the Kingdom.

                          What I was trying to do was get people to think about how you need to
                          respond if an incident is something that warrants EMS intervention. If
                          you are the CIC of an event (big or small) then I think its a good
                          idea to have formed your action plan before you even get there.

                          For example; part of my own action plan at events is that I keep my
                          kit at Gate and I let the gatekeeper know its there. This way if I
                          need to send someone running for it, it is very easy to find because
                          everyone knows where gate is. I have done this before when I've needed
                          to treat someone. I also always carry my own cell phone with me. It is
                          usually off or on silent but I have it. This way I can ensure a 911
                          call will be made easily - either by myself or by someone that I
                          designate to make the call. No one needs to search for a phone. I have
                          people at events that I know I can count on to assist me if the
                          situation becomes serious. I have talked to them ahead of time. These
                          are the people who will help control my scene, that I know I can send
                          to direct the ambulance, that will make the 911 call, etc. This is set
                          up before I even get to the event. And again, will make my job just
                          that much easier if its necessary. These are just a few examples of
                          little things that can be done to make a situation that much easier to
                          deal with. Not policy. Just individual pre-planning.

                          The 'ready sheets' that people are talking about is one of the things
                          that I wanted to make happen as Kingdom Chirugeon. I am thrilled that
                          everyone seems to have such a positive response to this. Having
                          something at gate, with the autocrat and with working chirugeons is a
                          great idea. I know that we have a couple of 911 dispatchers on this
                          list (Percival? Fursto?) who will be able to help give us some
                          definitive insight into what should be on those sheets because they'll
                          be able to tell us what information the 911 call-taker will
                          immediately require. If they could contact me off-list that would be
                          great.


                          In service,
                          Xristina
                        • Keith Crawley
                          I think something like this is a good idea and as mentioned if it does not effect Kingdom policy as such can be done without any fanfare or concern. Some kind
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 7, 2009
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                            I think something like this is a good idea and as mentioned if it does not effect Kingdom policy as such can be done without any fanfare or concern. Some kind of ready lists and or cards would be awesome and perhaps more work on a Kingdom level keeping each other and event/kingdom staff informed of our presence at events would help as well. Other than people I k now by site as qualified Chirurgeons many times at events I never know or see any presence made known.
                             
                            Locating first aid gear were folks can find it is something I always do and encourage within my own encampment and among the folks I camp with. Putting emergency gear in a universal location goes back to my days with Scouts Canada. We had rules that each sleeping tent have a first aid kit, fire extinguisher, flash light and list of the tents occupants and their emergency needs if any (Medic alert type info). This rule varied some across the various groups and districts but basically everyone had to have some form of first aid kit in each tent. The groups I worked with went a step further and made the placement of such gear universal as well. Inside the front door/flap and immediately on the right.
                             
                            This way any one who needed a first aid kit or other emergency gear could enter any of our groups sleeping tents in the dark and reach for and find what they wanted within a few feet of the main door. Larger group kits, specialized kits and such were also located in kitchen areas and near fire pits or other hazards. I know it doesn't work that well in some of our period tents or the way people lay out their tent to have a modern ugly first aid kit/other emergency gear right inside the door but at least some variation on this theme may help if you ever need a kit in a hurry.
                             
                            Percival
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Ninka
                            Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:51 AM
                            Subject: [E-Chir] Re: Scenario One - action plans and ready sheets

                            --- In E-Chir@yahoogroups. com, Jackie Wyatt <jkwyatt@... > wrote:
                            >
                            > "Maybe it's time to come up with a structured action plan >
                            for Ealdormere events?

                            I have to admit when I asked the 'action plan' question I was not
                            thinking anywhere near trying to make policy changes for the Kingdom.

                            What I was trying to do was get people to think about how you need to
                            respond if an incident is something that warrants EMS intervention. If
                            you are the CIC of an event (big or small) then I think its a good
                            idea to have formed your action plan before you even get there.

                            For example; part of my own action plan at events is that I keep my
                            kit at Gate and I let the gatekeeper know its there. This way if I
                            need to send someone running for it, it is very easy to find because
                            everyone knows where gate is. I have done this before when I've needed
                            to treat someone. I also always carry my own cell phone with me. It is
                            usually off or on silent but I have it. This way I can ensure a 911
                            call will be made easily - either by myself or by someone that I
                            designate to make the call. No one needs to search for a phone. I have
                            people at events that I know I can count on to assist me if the
                            situation becomes serious. I have talked to them ahead of time. These
                            are the people who will help control my scene, that I know I can send
                            to direct the ambulance, that will make the 911 call, etc. This is set
                            up before I even get to the event. And again, will make my job just
                            that much easier if its necessary. These are just a few examples of
                            little things that can be done to make a situation that much easier to
                            deal with. Not policy. Just individual pre-planning.

                            The 'ready sheets' that people are talking about is one of the things
                            that I wanted to make happen as Kingdom Chirugeon. I am thrilled that
                            everyone seems to have such a positive response to this. Having
                            something at gate, with the autocrat and with working chirugeons is a
                            great idea. I know that we have a couple of 911 dispatchers on this
                            list (Percival? Fursto?) who will be able to help give us some
                            definitive insight into what should be on those sheets because they'll
                            be able to tell us what information the 911 call-taker will
                            immediately require. If they could contact me off-list that would be
                            great.

                            In service,
                            Xristina

                          • Ninka
                            I was never a scout but at Pennsic my kit is always in my tent by the door on the right. It is a good system. :) Xristina ... From: Keith Crawley
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 7, 2009
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                              I was never a scout but at Pennsic my kit is always in my tent by the door on the right. It is a good system. :)

                              Xristina

                              --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Keith Crawley <crawleys@...> wrote:
                              From: Keith Crawley <crawleys@...>
                              Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: Scenario One - action plans and ready sheets
                              To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
                              Received: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 1:40 PM

                              I think something like this is a good idea and as mentioned if it does not effect Kingdom policy as such can be done without any fanfare or concern. Some kind of ready lists and or cards would be awesome and perhaps more work on a Kingdom level keeping each other and event/kingdom staff informed of our presence at events would help as well. Other than people I k now by site as qualified Chirurgeons many times at events I never know or see any presence made known.
                               
                              Locating first aid gear were folks can find it is something I always do and encourage within my own encampment and among the folks I camp with. Putting emergency gear in a universal location goes back to my days with Scouts Canada. We had rules that each sleeping tent have a first aid kit, fire extinguisher, flash light and list of the tents occupants and their emergency needs if any (Medic alert type info). This rule varied some across the various groups and districts but basically everyone had to have some form of first aid kit in each tent. The groups I worked with went a step further and made the placement of such gear universal as well. Inside the front door/flap and immediately on the right.
                               
                              This way any one who needed a first aid kit or other emergency gear could enter any of our groups sleeping tents in the dark and reach for and find what they wanted within a few feet of the main door. Larger group kits, specialized kits and such were also located in kitchen areas and near fire pits or other hazards. I know it doesn't work that well in some of our period tents or the way people lay out their tent to have a modern ugly first aid kit/other emergency gear right inside the door but at least some variation on this theme may help if you ever need a kit in a hurry.
                               
                              Percival
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Ninka
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:51 AM
                              Subject: [E-Chir] Re: Scenario One - action plans and ready sheets

                              --- In E-Chir@yahoogroups. com, Jackie Wyatt <jkwyatt@... > wrote:
                              >
                              > "Maybe it's time to come up with a structured action plan >
                              for Ealdormere events?

                              I have to admit when I asked the 'action plan' question I was not
                              thinking anywhere near trying to make policy changes for the Kingdom.

                              What I was trying to do was get people to think about how you need to
                              respond if an incident is something that warrants EMS intervention. If
                              you are the CIC of an event (big or small) then I think its a good
                              idea to have formed your action plan before you even get there.

                              For example; part of my own action plan at events is that I keep my
                              kit at Gate and I let the gatekeeper know its there. This way if I
                              need to send someone running for it, it is very easy to find because
                              everyone knows where gate is. I have done this before when I've needed
                              to treat someone. I also always carry my own cell phone with me. It is
                              usually off or on silent but I have it. This way I can ensure a 911
                              call will be made easily - either by myself or by someone that I
                              designate to make the call. No one needs to search for a phone. I have
                              people at events that I know I can count on to assist me if the
                              situation becomes serious. I have talked to them ahead of time. These
                              are the people who will help control my scene, that I know I can send
                              to direct the ambulance, that will make the 911 call, etc. This is set
                              up before I even get to the event. And again, will make my job just
                              that much easier if its necessary. These are just a few examples of
                              little things that can be done to make a situation that much easier to
                              deal with. Not policy. Just individual pre-planning.

                              The 'ready sheets' that people are talking about is one of the things
                              that I wanted to make happen as Kingdom Chirugeon. I am thrilled that
                              everyone seems to have such a positive response to this. Having
                              something at gate, with the autocrat and with working chirugeons is a
                              great idea. I know that we have a couple of 911 dispatchers on this
                              list (Percival? Fursto?) who will be able to help give us some
                              definitive insight into what should be on those sheets because they'll
                              be able to tell us what information the 911 call-taker will
                              immediately require. If they could contact me off-list that would be
                              great.

                              In service,
                              Xristina



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                            • b1laxson
                              ... should ... Borrowing from my current Security work every guard in my staff may be the one alone in the emergency. So I quiz them without warning on the
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 10, 2009
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                                > Does anyone have any ideas of how and when, we as chirugeon's
                                should
                                > put such an action plan in place? An action plan being defined as

                                Borrowing from my current Security work every guard in my staff may
                                be the one alone in the emergency. So I quiz them without warning on
                                the matter.

                                The content of what-to-do needs to be available without notice...
                                becuase the emergencies happen without notice.

                                At the very least we should get in the habit of having troll or the
                                bar (common reference points) having print out of the action plan
                                available. I feel this would include:
                                = at least one chirugeon present/expected
                                = who-has/where-is a phone,
                                = contact info for the Autocrat
                                = contact info for the Kingdom Chirugeon (24 hours of a medical
                                emergency)
                                = directions >TO< the site (needed for 911 calls)

                                debating on:
                                = directions to the nearest hospital,
                                (which you can probably get from the 911 or find out from the
                                ambulance which one they happen to be going to.. which isnt always
                                the nearest one)

                                For the SCA, crowd control is a common activity for us... we
                                configure halls, we martial fighting, we martial archery, we
                                organize dancing... we have internal ranks of
                                Laurel/Pelican/Knights... and even a King that might be there to get
                                the crowd control done.

                                This print out could be made up as a form and a recommended item for
                                the event autocrats.
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