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104RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together

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  • J Corso
    Dec 6 3:24 PM
      While leeches and maggots are used - it must be remembered that maggots eat
      dead flesh only - if infected - antibiotics are still used - I myself have
      applied leeches and maggots to flesh in my work! Not really nice to do - but
      it was cool in a clinical way - the leech story isnt really gross and i can
      share if wanted but the maggot story is a little graphic - still willing to
      share but email firect and i will save the group the grossness!! LOL
      Giovanni Ferraius (aka John)


      >From: "Benetti,Sandy [Ontario]" <sandy.benetti@...>
      >Reply-To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
      >To: <E-Chir@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
      >Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:18:31 -0500
      >
      >Hey maybe we can go "medieval" on them and resort to leaches and maggots
      >(noting that still are both used in modern medicine and that in some
      >cases maggots work better and cleaning up a nasty wound than a lot of
      >modern antibiotics).
      >
      >Seonag :)
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com [mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com] On
      >Behalf Of James D Sena
      > Sent: December 6, 2006 2:08 PM
      > To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
      >
      >
      > The further dumbing down of CPR. We had that in my ARC CPR
      >class when I renewed this year. The given reason was "In an emergency
      >most people can't remember how to check for a pulse, or even find their
      >own".
      >
      > I disagree with it, and I won't stop checking for a pulse
      >myself. Then again my original training was not "lay person". For the
      >first 10 years I had a CPR card it was either "CPR for the Professional
      >Rescuer" or "CPR for Health Care Providers". It is a much more
      >educational program than "Standard CPR with AED".
      >
      > And don't even get me started on the dumbing down of AEDs
      >either.
      >
      > Lord Brendan ap Llewelyn
      >
      >
      >
      > Ninka wrote:
      >
      > The new Heart and Stroke guidelines (which govern St.
      >John's, Red Cross and all other first aid training providers) no longer
      >teach pulse checks to the lay provider. In fact, there is no longer a
      >check for signs of circulation of any type. If you have to breathe for a
      >patient, then you immediately start CPR. These new standards came into
      >effect in either September or October of this year.
      >
      > Xristina
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message ----
      > From: "Benetti,Sandy [Ontario]" <sandy.benetti@...>
      ><mailto:sandy.benetti@...>
      > To: E-Chir@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2006 8:53:16 AM
      > Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working
      >together
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Who is "we" St. John's, Red Cross, someone else? Any one
      >with CPR training gets taught how to take a pulse. I don't know if it's
      >mandatory, but at Pennsic they asked for copies of my CPR certs as well
      >as my first aid ones.
      >
      > S.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@
      >yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of MaryCatharine
      > Sent: December 6, 2006 8:20 AM
      > To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com
      > Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid
      >working together
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >With the new modalities, we no longer teach the
      >"lay person" to take a "pulse", anywhere, period...
      >We are to only teaching/recerting EMS to "take pulses "...
      >
      >Have fun with this one,
      >
      >
      >MaryCatharine
      >...."Of course he has a knife. He always has knives.
      >We all have knives. It's 1183 and we're all barbarians."
      >
      >Katharine Hepburn (1907 - 2003) As: Eleanor of Aquitaine.
      >The Lion in Winter. 1968
      >-------Original Message----- --
      >
      >From: Benetti,Sandy [Ontario] <mailto:sandy.benetti@...>
      >Date: 12/05/06 14:11:42
      >To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com <mailto:E-Chir@yahoogroups.com>
      >Subject: RE: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
      >
      >
      >All good points, however as a first responder you still don't need the
      >BP cuff. You can take a carotid pulse and a distal pulse. If you do them
      >at the same time, they should both have the same rate and rhythm. If
      >they don't there's a problem. If you can find one and not the other,
      >there's a problem. These are the 2 major pulse points most first aiders
      >use. Finding a podieital pulse is tricky and finding a femoral pulse is
      >usually only done as a drastic measure. Both carotid and distal pulse
      >tell you a rough approximation of the systolic pulse.
      >
      >So, taking vitals yes. Change in pulse or a difference between carotid
      >and distal pulse for rate rhythm or strength tell you if your patient is
      >stable, improving, deteriorating and are (along with pupil response and
      >respiration rate, skin colour and condition and level of consciousness)
      >are all things you can relay to EMS. They don't require a BP cuff or
      >stethoscope. I'm with the ski patrol, I know this.
      >
      >Seonag
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com [mailto:E-Chir@ yahoogroups. com] On
      >Behalf Of KIM MCAULEY
      >Sent: December 4, 2006 10:21 AM
      >To: E-Chir@yahoogroups. com
      >Subject: Re: [E-Chir] Re: EMS and fist aid working together
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >You are very correct in all those assessments Streonwald. However, as a
      >person who has to call 911 more than most, I can tell you that St. John
      >does suggest that taking a full set of vitals is a good thing. Including
      >BP. However, and this is in big red letters, you do this only when you
      >have done everything else on the list of things to do and while still
      >waiting for EMS to arrive, cause you called them right at the beginning.
      >Taking vitals sure beats twiddling your thumbs?
      >
      >In the case of BP, there are certain things that a *changing* blood
      >pressure can tell EMS and the hospital. If you can, get the baseline
      >vitals so they have more information to work with.
      >
      >Curious? Google Cushing's Triad for more information. ::grins:: Who
      >wants to do a report for the class on it?
      >
      >Kaellyn
      >
      >
      >
      > >>>>>>>>>>>>
      >
      >
      >I agree. As a Ski Patroller of 18 years experience (including over
      >ten years as an instructor), I have never needed, nor taken a BP
      >reading. If I don't find a pulse anywhere distal to an injury - it's
      >a load and go. If I don't find a peripheral pulse - it's a load and
      >go. If I find an abnormal (ie. unexpected) rate, or strength, or an
      >unusual rhythm in any pulse - it's probably load and go. A BP cuff,
      >or a stethoscope won't help me decide.
      >
      >Basically, any unusual circulatory function requires care that I can't
      >provide (ie. beyond blankets, O2, monitor, transport) and my patient
      >needs to go to the hospital, ASAP.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > (Yahoo! ID required)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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