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DxDesigner burns me again.

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  • Les Embrey
    In creating a net-list generic or Pads in the config file there is a little item called repack. What it does is it Reslots or Re-redes s all your Slotted
    Message 1 of 8 , May 20, 2010
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      In creating a net-list generic or Pads in the config file there is a little item called repack.
      What it does is it Reslots or Re-redes's all your Slotted symbols.
      If you have a large connector that you are using Slotted parts on and one is not connected to a net or some other minor thing that does not prevent netlisting.
      DxDesigner can and will reslot it so that ground now goes to a pin that should have VDD on it or it may even split and add components so instead of one 100 pin connector you now have 5, one for each sheet.
      I have been complaining about this since ViewLogic was all DOS.  And I just got burned again.
      I forgot that when ever I down load a new upgrade I have to edit the config files I did it for the pads netlister but forgot to do it for the generic.
      Luckily I did a back up before doing the netlister.
       Watch out.


      --
      Electrical Designer
      L.E. Designs
      les.embrey.dx.pads@...
      designs.l.e@...
      617-696-3788
      cell
      617-455-5884
      5 Columbia Park
      Milton Ma.02186
    • avjohn@rockwellcollins.com
      So why don t you create a corporate WDIR folder, add the path to your WDIR variable, and move the changed config file to that? Then when you call up the
      Message 2 of 8 , May 20, 2010
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        So why don't you create a corporate WDIR folder, add the path to your WDIR variable, and move the changed config file to that?  Then when you call up the netlist tool, it'll use the corporate WDIR config file instead of the standard one.  We never use the config files in the standard folder.  We've always used config files we've modified.

        ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
        Tony John                      319-295-1888  
        Senior EDA Applications Engineer          
        Enterprise Tool Integration              
        Rockwell Collins  
        Cedar Rapids, IA
        avjohn@...




        Les Embrey <Les.Embrey.dx.pads@...>
        Sent by: DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com

        05/20/2010 12:40 PM

        Please respond to
        DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com

        To
        DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com, Talk Mailing List <talk@...>
        cc
        Subject
        [DxDesigner_Users] DxDesigner burns me again.





         

        In creating a net-list generic or Pads in the config file there is a little item called repack.
        What it does is it Reslots or Re-redes's all your Slotted symbols.
        If you have a large connector that you are using Slotted parts on and one is not connected to a net or some other minor thing that does not prevent netlisting.
        DxDesigner can and will reslot it so that ground now goes to a pin that should have VDD on it or it may even split and add components so instead of one 100 pin connector you now have 5, one for each sheet.
        I have been complaining about this since ViewLogic was all DOS.  And I just got burned again.
        I forgot that when ever I down load a new upgrade I have to edit the config files I did it for the pads netlister but forgot to do it for the generic.
        Luckily I did a back up before doing the netlister.
         Watch out.


        --
        Electrical Designer
        L.E. Designs

        les.embrey.dx.pads@...
        designs.l.e@...
        617-696-3788
        cell
        617-455-5884
        5 Columbia Park
        Milton Ma.02186


      • Vernon Wnek
        Agreed, Run all your environment from a Corporate WDIR directory. Config files, INI files, Bom files, etc... One point of control, Correct by Construction
        Message 3 of 8 , May 20, 2010
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          Agreed, Run all your environment from a Corporate WDIR directory. Config files, INI files, Bom files, etc…

           

          One point of control,  “Correct by Construction”

           

          Thanks,
          Vern Wnek, C.I.D.
          Manager, PCB Layout, ENG BU / Central Library

          From: DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of avjohn@...
          Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2010 11:30 AM
          To: DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [DxDesigner_Users] DxDesigner burns me again.

           

           


          So why don't you create a corporate WDIR folder, add the path to your WDIR variable, and move the changed config file to that?  Then when you call up the netlist tool, it'll use the corporate WDIR config file instead of the standard one.  We never use the config files in the standard folder.  We've always used config files we've modified.

          ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>
          Tony John                      319-295-1888  
          Senior EDA Applications Engineer          
          Enterprise Tool Integration              
          Rockwell Collins  
          Cedar Rapids, IA
          avjohn@...



          Les Embrey <Les.Embrey.dx.pads@...>
          Sent by: DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com

          05/20/2010 12:40 PM

          Please respond to
          DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com

          To

          DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com, Talk Mailing List <talk@...>

          cc

          Subject

          [DxDesigner_Users] DxDesigner burns me again.

           




           

          In creating a net-list generic or Pads in the config file there is a little item called repack.
          What it does is it Reslots or Re-redes's all your Slotted symbols.
          If you have a large connector that you are using Slotted parts on and one is not connected to a net or some other minor thing that does not prevent netlisting.
          DxDesigner can and will reslot it so that ground now goes to a pin that should have VDD on it or it may even split and add components so instead of one 100 pin connector you now have 5, one for each sheet.
          I have been complaining about this since ViewLogic was all DOS.  And I just got burned again.
          I forgot that when ever I down load a new upgrade I have to edit the config files I did it for the pads netlister but forgot to do it for the generic.
          Luckily I did a back up before doing the netlister.
           Watch out.


          --
          Electrical Designer
          L.E. Designs
          les.embrey.dx.pads@...
          designs.l.e@...
          617-696-3788
          cell
          617-455-5884
          5 Columbia Park
          Milton Ma.02186

           

        • Les Embrey
          You guys are missing the point Mentor Graphic and before that Viewlogic have their defaults set wrong. I should not have to do edit the config file like that
          Message 4 of 8 , May 20, 2010
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            You guys are missing the point
            Mentor Graphic and before that Viewlogic have their defaults set wrong.
            I should not have to do edit the config file like that at all.
            let alone have to use a old config file with new product in a special directory.




            --
            Electrical Designer
            L.E. Designs
            les.embrey.dx.pads@...
            designs.l.e@...
            617-696-3788
            cell
            617-455-5884
            5 Columbia Park
            Milton Ma.02186
          • tomrwild
            The following attributes are your best friends for slotted connectors (which I now never use for this reason): PKG_LOCK PKG_GRP I always hand-refdes the
            Message 5 of 8 , May 24, 2010
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              The following attributes are your best friends for slotted connectors (which I now never use for this reason):

              PKG_LOCK
              PKG_GRP

              I always hand-refdes the connector and apply the lock.

              The other comments are valid about corporate WDIRs, and we do use that technique here, too, but one time a few years ago some eager-beaver young engineer decided to help out by deselecting the preserve-refdes checkbox in the PWBFWD GUI, and my connectors were all reslotted (in the 11th hour before submitting to layout). To make matters worse, I had several of the same connector so it swapped stuff all over the place.


              Tom


              --- In DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com, Les Embrey <Les.Embrey.dx.pads@...> wrote:
              >
              > In creating a net-list generic or Pads in the config file there is a little
              > item called repack.
              > What it does is it Reslots or Re-redes's all your Slotted symbols.
              > If you have a large connector that you are using Slotted parts on and one is
              > not connected to a net or some other minor thing that does not prevent
              > netlisting.
              > DxDesigner can and will reslot it so that ground now goes to a pin that
              > should have VDD on it or it may even split and add components so instead of
              > one 100 pin connector you now have 5, one for each sheet.
              > I have been complaining about this since ViewLogic was all DOS. And I just
              > got burned again.
              > I forgot that when ever I down load a new upgrade I have to edit the config
              > files I did it for the pads netlister but forgot to do it for the generic.
              > Luckily I did a back up before doing the netlister.
              > Watch out.
              >
              >
              > --
              > Electrical Designer
              > L.E. Designs
              > les.embrey.dx.pads@...
              > designs.l.e@...
              > 617-696-3788
              > cell
              > 617-455-5884
              > 5 Columbia Park
              > Milton Ma.02186
              >
            • Les Embrey
              Tom Work arounds are something that are for getting around bugs. My Gripe is I should not have to protect my schematics from random redeses and repacking of
              Message 6 of 8 , May 24, 2010
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                Tom
                Work arounds are something that are for getting around bugs.

                My Gripe is I should not have to protect my schematics from random redeses and repacking of the slots.

                When I lose my mind and want to do something incredibly stupid this is something I should have to deliberately do when I export a netlist.

                Think of the fun the engineers could have with extra connectors chips and unexpected connections not called for from the original plans

                Les

                On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:18 AM, tomrwild <TWild@...> wrote:
                 

                The following attributes are your best friends for slotted connectors (which I now never use for this reason):

                PKG_LOCK
                PKG_GRP

                I always hand-refdes the connector and apply the lock.

                The other comments are valid about corporate WDIRs, and we do use that technique here, too, but one time a few years ago some eager-beaver young engineer decided to help out by deselecting the preserve-refdes checkbox in the PWBFWD GUI, and my connectors were all reslotted (in the 11th hour before submitting to layout). To make matters worse, I had several of the same connector so it swapped stuff all over the place.

                Tom

                --- In DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com, Les Embrey <Les.Embrey.dx.pads@...> wrote:
                >
                > In creating a net-list generic or Pads in the config file there is a little
                > item called repack.
                > What it does is it Reslots or Re-redes's all your Slotted symbols.
                > If you have a large connector that you are using Slotted parts on and one is
                > not connected to a net or some other minor thing that does not prevent
                > netlisting.
                > DxDesigner can and will reslot it so that ground now goes to a pin that
                > should have VDD on it or it may even split and add components so instead of
                > one 100 pin connector you now have 5, one for each sheet.
                > I have been complaining about this since ViewLogic was all DOS. And I just
                > got burned again.
                > I forgot that when ever I down load a new upgrade I have to edit the config
                > files I did it for the pads netlister but forgot to do it for the generic.
                > Luckily I did a back up before doing the netlister.
                > Watch out.


                >
                >
                > --
                > Electrical Designer
                > L.E. Designs
                > les.embrey.dx.pads@...
                > designs.l.e@...

                > 617-696-3788
                > cell
                > 617-455-5884
                > 5 Columbia Park
                > Milton Ma.02186
                >




                --
                Electrical Designer
                L.E. Designs
                les.embrey.dx.pads@...
                designs.l.e@...
                617-696-3788
                cell
                617-455-5884
                5 Columbia Park
                Milton Ma.02186
              • tomrwild
                Les, I d forgotten this thread and stumbled across it again today. As much as I agree that the reslotting is a painful experience, I don t agree that it s a
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 20, 2010
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                  Les,

                  I'd forgotten this thread and stumbled across it again today.

                  As much as I agree that the reslotting is a painful experience, I don't agree that it's a bug. If the connector is designed as a one-pin symbol with PARTS=n, then the tool correctly interprets the part as a slotted symbol with n parts (just like a quad opamp or hex inverter).

                  The problem comes in when we choose to use these slotted symbols for parts which clearly are not gate-swappable, like connectors. That's why I started drawing my own connector symbols.

                  Tom

                  --- In DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com, Les Embrey <Les.Embrey.dx.pads@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Tom
                  > Work arounds are something that are for getting around bugs.
                  >
                  > My Gripe is I should not have to protect my schematics from random redeses
                  > and repacking of the slots.
                  >
                  > When I lose my mind and want to do something incredibly stupid this is
                  > something I should have to deliberately do when I export a netlist.
                  >
                  > Think of the fun the engineers could have with extra connectors chips and
                  > unexpected connections not called for from the original plans
                  >
                  > Les
                  >
                  > On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 9:18 AM, tomrwild <TWild@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The following attributes are your best friends for slotted connectors
                  > > (which I now never use for this reason):
                  > >
                  > > PKG_LOCK
                  > > PKG_GRP
                  > >
                  > > I always hand-refdes the connector and apply the lock.
                  > >
                  > > The other comments are valid about corporate WDIRs, and we do use that
                  > > technique here, too, but one time a few years ago some eager-beaver young
                  > > engineer decided to help out by deselecting the preserve-refdes checkbox in
                  > > the PWBFWD GUI, and my connectors were all reslotted (in the 11th hour
                  > > before submitting to layout). To make matters worse, I had several of the
                  > > same connector so it swapped stuff all over the place.
                  > >
                  > > Tom
                  > >
                  > > --- In DxDesigner_Users@yahoogroups.com<DxDesigner_Users%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > > Les Embrey <Les.Embrey.dx.pads@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > In creating a net-list generic or Pads in the config file there is a
                  > > little
                  > > > item called repack.
                  > > > What it does is it Reslots or Re-redes's all your Slotted symbols.
                  > > > If you have a large connector that you are using Slotted parts on and one
                  > > is
                  > > > not connected to a net or some other minor thing that does not prevent
                  > > > netlisting.
                  > > > DxDesigner can and will reslot it so that ground now goes to a pin that
                  > > > should have VDD on it or it may even split and add components so instead
                  > > of
                  > > > one 100 pin connector you now have 5, one for each sheet.
                  > > > I have been complaining about this since ViewLogic was all DOS. And I
                  > > just
                  > > > got burned again.
                  > > > I forgot that when ever I down load a new upgrade I have to edit the
                  > > config
                  > > > files I did it for the pads netlister but forgot to do it for the
                  > > generic.
                  > > > Luckily I did a back up before doing the netlister.
                  > > > Watch out.
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --
                  > > > Electrical Designer
                  > > > L.E. Designs
                  > > > les.embrey.dx.pads@
                  > > > designs.l.e@
                  > >
                  > > > 617-696-3788
                  > > > cell
                  > > > 617-455-5884
                  > > > 5 Columbia Park
                  > > > Milton Ma.02186
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Electrical Designer
                  > L.E. Designs
                  > les.embrey.dx.pads@...
                  > designs.l.e@...
                  > 617-696-3788
                  > cell
                  > 617-455-5884
                  > 5 Columbia Park
                  > Milton Ma.02186
                  >
                • Les Embrey
                  Tom so it is alright for the default settings in a software package to force you do do a work around The problem comes in when we choose to use these slotted
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 20, 2010
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                    Tom so it is alright for the default settings in a software package to force you do do a work around

                    "The problem comes in when we choose to use these slotted symbols for parts which clearly are not gate-swappable, like connectors. That's why I started drawing my own connector symbols."

                    Any software the allows the program to re-engineer the Schematic is DEFECTIVE.
                    MYO
                    Les



                    On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, tomrwild <TWild@...> wrote:
                     

                    Les,

                    I'd forgotten this thread and stumbled across it again today.

                    As much as I agree that the reslotting is a painful experience, I don't agree that it's a bug. If the connector is designed as a one-pin symbol with PARTS=n, then the tool correctly interprets the part as a slotted symbol with n parts (just like a quad opamp or hex inverter).

                    The problem comes in when we choose to use these slotted symbols for parts which clearly are not gate-swappable, like connectors. That's why I started drawing my own connector symbols.

                    Tom





                    --
                    Electrical Designer
                    L.E. Designs
                    les.embrey.dx.pads@...
                    designs.l.e@...
                    617-696-3788
                    cell
                    617-455-5884
                    5 Columbia Park
                    Milton Ma.02186
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