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Re: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

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  • ULNut1@aol.com
    In a message dated 11/30/2002 5:34:37 PM Central Standard Time, ... Not sure what you mean here. I am at the same point Mike (attaching the top cover. Do I
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 1, 2002
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      In a message dated 11/30/2002 5:34:37 PM Central Standard Time,
      ARGOLDMAN@... writes:

      > However you attach it, make sure you take into accont that the wing will
      > flex
      > with turbulance as it is attached to the fuselage inbord of the fuselage
      > sides. If you do not allow for this play you will have some less than
      > pleasant surprises

      Not sure what you mean here. I am at the same point Mike (attaching the top
      cover. Do I need to leave a gap? Between the aft cover and the wing cover?
      How big of a gap?

      Thanks,

      Fred


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dorothea Keats and Chris Walterson
      Fred------- I left the thickness of a hacksaw blade between my cover and the wing. Same as on my cowling. Seems to be enough. I would think if it will flex
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 1, 2002
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        Fred------- I left the thickness of a hacksaw blade between my cover
        and the wing. Same as on my cowling. Seems to be enough. I would
        think if it will flex any more than that inboard, someone screwed up on
        the carbon fibre layers.-------- Canada Chris
      • Mike Wright
        What would I do without you...? Please send the pics off list to me. Linda is out here visiting her folks so I got a parcel to send you and Jeff. will you
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 1, 2002
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          What would I do without you...?
          Please send the pics off list to me.
          Linda is out here visiting her folks so I got a parcel to send you and Jeff.
          will you forward onto Jeff when you see him next. It will be with you just
          before Xmas. I'll send you a different flavour this time or same if you
          want. I know you addicted by now.
          Mike
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Aurigema, Andrew N [mailto:aurigean@...]
          Sent: 02 December 2002 14:35
          To: 'Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com'
          Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting


          Mike,

          I created a 1" lip all around the cover and then used "bonded in " anchors
          in the turtle deck (about 30 of them) to screw the cover down to the deck.
          It is very nice to be able to take that cover off and get to the goodies
          under it.

          Got pics if you need some help.

          Drew

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Mike Wright [mailto:marmic@...]
          Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 9:23 AM
          To: Dragonflylist
          Subject: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

          Hi guys
          Can anyone of you shed light on where in the plans the detail on fitting
          the
          aft cover over the wing can be found. Is this cover bonded to the wing or
          fastened with fasteners.
          Mine fits snugly but I having read through the plans so many times cannot
          seem to find the correct method used.
          Thanks
          Mike Wright
          South Africa


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        • Mike Wright
          I m sure I do ...It will be on the CD Jeff made for me. You got ice and so do we here and it supposed to be summer....EARLY ICE AGE???? Weather sure is odd all
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 1, 2002
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            I'm sure I do ...It will be on the CD Jeff made for me.
            You got ice and so do we here and it supposed to be summer....EARLY ICE
            AGE????
            Weather sure is odd all over the world.
            Mike
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Aurigema, Andrew N [mailto:aurigean@...]
            Sent: 02 December 2002 14:44
            To: 'Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com'
            Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] Canard removal - sequence MKII??


            Mike,

            You got a copy of Raptor Build Book chapter 002 ??? it shows how to put
            anchors into foam so that you can install covers and such.

            Drew

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Mike Wright [mailto:marmic@...]
            Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:50 PM
            To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] Canard removal - sequence MKII??

            Thanks guy's
            That makes good sense.
            How do you get to the back fasteners .Are these to be done as for a
            cowling
            ,say by using countersunk screws along the outer perimeter?
            Mike
            -----Original Message-----
            From: John Eagles [mailto:jeagles6@...]
            Sent: 30 November 2002 20:26
            To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Dragonflylist] Canard removal - sequence MKII??


            OSD, while it's still fresh in your mind, what is the best sequence to
            remove the canard???

            I just yesterday removed the main wing (plans built) and trailered it
            100mi.
            home in 30-40 mph winds --- no damage, but it was a real challenge!! I'm
            going to wait for a more pleasant day to finish the job.

            Drew, thanks for the strobes!! They arrived yesterday in good condition.
            Ps:
            I hear it's been more "hot chocolate" weather down there.

            John Eagles - N340TD

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Dorothea Keats and Chris Walterson [mailto:dkeats@...]
            Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 12:08 PM
            To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

            Mike------Make it removable. As skydog says it is much easier to
            install the wing with the cover off and it is alot easier to attach and
            inspect the aileron connections. My cover is held on with six screws and
            countersunk washers. Sure makes life easier.------ Canada Chris




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          • ARGOLDMAN@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/1/02 9:06:07 AM Central Standard Time, ULNut1@aol.com ... If the turtle deck part is bonded to the wing, it will be separate from the
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 1, 2002
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              In a message dated 12/1/02 9:06:07 AM Central Standard Time, ULNut1@...
              writes:


              > Not sure what you mean here. I am at the same point Mike (attaching the top
              >
              > cover. Do I need to leave a gap? Between the aft cover and the wing
              > cover?
              > How big of a gap?
              >
              > Thanks,
              >
              > Fred
              >

              If the turtle deck part is bonded to the wing, it will be separate from the
              front part of the rear turtle deck that is bonded to the seatback, as well as
              being seperate from the back part that continues to the tail. This is
              necessary to allow the removal of the wing.If you do it this way, make sure
              that the entire cut-out becomes larger as you go from the wing surface to the
              top of the deck (the kerf (gap) can be constant)-- to allow the wing and deck
              to be removed.

              An accurate measurement of the kerf really isn't critical, 1/16" would
              probably suffice. Any gap in this location, however will increase wind noise,
              add a small amount of drag (as the cockpit is somewhat pressurized) and act
              as an area that H2O can come in during rain etc. You might consider caulking
              it with silicon once it is completed. I have my deck bonded to the wing,
              however the top hinges from the right side of the fuselage (about 7-8" from
              the wing) and locks into a similar place on the other side. It gives me nice
              access to the rear innards (sort of like a aeroproctoscope) as well as giving
              me access to the top of the wing for possible baggage. It was great when I
              was forming and installing my AUX tank.

              -- the tank, by the way is now installed and floxed, the filler hole is cut
              and it awaits only some glass strips and the floxing in of the filler cap and
              final connections. I have to find the ends of the pre-wiring for the tank.--

              The amount of flexion is not tremendous, just plan for some movement.

              Tubularly yours (aeronautically, that is)

              Rich


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Aurigema, Andrew N
              Mike, I created a 1 lip all around the cover and then used bonded in anchors in the turtle deck (about 30 of them) to screw the cover down to the deck. It
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 2, 2002
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                Mike,

                I created a 1" lip all around the cover and then used "bonded in " anchors
                in the turtle deck (about 30 of them) to screw the cover down to the deck.
                It is very nice to be able to take that cover off and get to the goodies
                under it.

                Got pics if you need some help.

                Drew

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mike Wright [mailto:marmic@...]
                Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 9:23 AM
                To: Dragonflylist
                Subject: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

                Hi guys
                Can anyone of you shed light on where in the plans the detail on fitting the
                aft cover over the wing can be found. Is this cover bonded to the wing or
                fastened with fasteners.
                Mine fits snugly but I having read through the plans so many times cannot
                seem to find the correct method used.
                Thanks
                Mike Wright
                South Africa


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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Aurigema, Andrew N
                The hot cocoa is froze solid. I HAD ICE ON MY TRUCK WINDOW THIS MORNING. NOT FROST, ACTUAL ICE. This must cease. I have the Raptor ready for close out resin
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 2, 2002
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                  The hot cocoa is froze solid.

                  I HAD ICE ON MY TRUCK WINDOW THIS MORNING. NOT FROST, ACTUAL ICE.

                  This must cease.

                  I have the Raptor ready for close out "resin trick" on the belly for a week
                  now but the cold is killing any chance for the resin to cure out.


                  Drew

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: John Eagles [mailto:jeagles6@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 1:26 PM
                  To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Dragonflylist] Canard removal - sequence MKII??

                  OSD, while it's still fresh in your mind, what is the best sequence to
                  remove the canard???

                  I just yesterday removed the main wing (plans built) and trailered it 100mi.
                  home in 30-40 mph winds --- no damage, but it was a real challenge!! I'm
                  going to wait for a more pleasant day to finish the job.

                  Drew, thanks for the strobes!! They arrived yesterday in good condition. Ps:
                  I hear it's been more "hot chocolate" weather down there.

                  John Eagles - N340TD

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Dorothea Keats and Chris Walterson [mailto:dkeats@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 12:08 PM
                  To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

                  Mike------Make it removable. As skydog says it is much easier to
                  install the wing with the cover off and it is alot easier to attach and
                  inspect the aileron connections. My cover is held on with six screws and
                  countersunk washers. Sure makes life easier.------ Canada Chris




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                • Aurigema, Andrew N
                  Mike, You got a copy of Raptor Build Book chapter 002 ??? it shows how to put anchors into foam so that you can install covers and such. Drew ... From: Mike
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 2, 2002
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                    Mike,

                    You got a copy of Raptor Build Book chapter 002 ??? it shows how to put
                    anchors into foam so that you can install covers and such.

                    Drew

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Mike Wright [mailto:marmic@...]
                    Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 1:50 PM
                    To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] Canard removal - sequence MKII??

                    Thanks guy's
                    That makes good sense.
                    How do you get to the back fasteners .Are these to be done as for a cowling
                    ,say by using countersunk screws along the outer perimeter?
                    Mike
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: John Eagles [mailto:jeagles6@...]
                    Sent: 30 November 2002 20:26
                    To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Dragonflylist] Canard removal - sequence MKII??


                    OSD, while it's still fresh in your mind, what is the best sequence to
                    remove the canard???

                    I just yesterday removed the main wing (plans built) and trailered it
                    100mi.
                    home in 30-40 mph winds --- no damage, but it was a real challenge!! I'm
                    going to wait for a more pleasant day to finish the job.

                    Drew, thanks for the strobes!! They arrived yesterday in good condition.
                    Ps:
                    I hear it's been more "hot chocolate" weather down there.

                    John Eagles - N340TD

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Dorothea Keats and Chris Walterson [mailto:dkeats@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 12:08 PM
                    To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

                    Mike------Make it removable. As skydog says it is much easier to
                    install the wing with the cover off and it is alot easier to attach and
                    inspect the aileron connections. My cover is held on with six screws and
                    countersunk washers. Sure makes life easier.------ Canada Chris




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                  • Darrell Doerhoff
                    Mike, I m one of the fortunate one s that had all this done already (I m the 4th owner)...on mine, there s the lip, as Drew just described, but instead of all
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 2, 2002
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                      Mike,
                      I'm one of the fortunate one's that had all this done already (I'm the 4th owner)...on mine, there's the lip, as Drew just described, but instead of all the screws, there's two aluminum tabs on the aft side of the cover that slip in under the turtle deck to hold it there. On the forward side, there's two an3 bolts glassed in, and these pass through two aluminum tabs in the deck. Access to install the two washers and nuts is really easy...just reach behind the seats...
                      This installation leaves the outside of the cover "clean"...If I get a chance, I'll get some photos taken today, and send them to you...
                      However you do it, I agree with the rest...make the cover removable...it makes inspections a lot easier...
                      Darrell
                      "Aurigema, Andrew N" <aurigean@...> wrote:Mike,

                      I created a 1" lip all around the cover and then used "bonded in " anchors
                      in the turtle deck (about 30 of them) to screw the cover down to the deck.
                      It is very nice to be able to take that cover off and get to the goodies
                      under it.

                      Got pics if you need some help.

                      Drew

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Mike Wright [mailto:marmic@...]
                      Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 9:23 AM
                      To: Dragonflylist
                      Subject: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

                      Hi guys
                      Can anyone of you shed light on where in the plans the detail on fitting the
                      aft cover over the wing can be found. Is this cover bonded to the wing or
                      fastened with fasteners.
                      Mine fits snugly but I having read through the plans so many times cannot
                      seem to find the correct method used.
                      Thanks
                      Mike Wright
                      South Africa


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                    • Aurigema, Andrew N
                      Mike, I don t have any good shots of the recessed anchors around the aft shell so I will take a few tonight. Read up on how to put in a anchor (RBB chapt 002)
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 2, 2002
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                        Mike,

                        I don't have any good shots of the recessed anchors around the aft shell so
                        I will take a few tonight. Read up on how to put in a anchor (RBB chapt
                        002) and let me know if you have any questions.

                        Thanks for the elephant juice. It comes in flavors ??????

                        What a paradise you must live in.

                        Drew in sunny Fl.



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Mike Wright [mailto:marmic@...]
                        Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 2:00 PM
                        To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

                        What would I do without you...?
                        Please send the pics off list to me.
                        Linda is out here visiting her folks so I got a parcel to send you and Jeff.
                        will you forward onto Jeff when you see him next. It will be with you just
                        before Xmas. I'll send you a different flavour this time or same if you
                        want. I know you addicted by now.
                        Mike
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Aurigema, Andrew N [mailto:aurigean@...]
                        Sent: 02 December 2002 14:35
                        To: 'Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com'
                        Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting


                        Mike,

                        I created a 1" lip all around the cover and then used "bonded in " anchors
                        in the turtle deck (about 30 of them) to screw the cover down to the deck.
                        It is very nice to be able to take that cover off and get to the goodies
                        under it.

                        Got pics if you need some help.

                        Drew

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Mike Wright [mailto:marmic@...]
                        Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 9:23 AM
                        To: Dragonflylist
                        Subject: [Dragonflylist] Final wing fitting

                        Hi guys
                        Can anyone of you shed light on where in the plans the detail on fitting
                        the
                        aft cover over the wing can be found. Is this cover bonded to the wing or
                        fastened with fasteners.
                        Mine fits snugly but I having read through the plans so many times cannot
                        seem to find the correct method used.
                        Thanks
                        Mike Wright
                        South Africa


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                        Dragonflylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                      • ULNut1@aol.com
                        In a message dated 12/2/2002 1:40:15 PM Central Standard Time, ... Can you send me the pictures too? Or post them to the raptor page? I too am putting on my
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 2, 2002
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                          In a message dated 12/2/2002 1:40:15 PM Central Standard Time,
                          aurigean@... writes:

                          > I don't have any good shots of the recessed anchors around the aft shell so
                          > I will take a few tonight. Read up on how to put in a anchor (RBB chapt
                          > 002) and let me know if you have any questions.
                          >

                          Can you send me the pictures too? Or post them to the raptor page? I too am
                          putting on my aft shell.

                          Thanks,

                          Fred


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • John Eagles
                          Thanks for the guidance --- your detailed info below should keep me from breaking something. John Eagles ... From: oneskydog@aol.com [mailto:oneskydog@aol.com]
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 3, 2002
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks for the guidance --- your detailed info below should keep me from
                            breaking something.

                            John Eagles

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: oneskydog@... [mailto:oneskydog@...]
                            Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 10:37 PM
                            To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] Canard removal - sequence MKII??

                            In a message dated 11/30/2002 11:26:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
                            jeagles6@... writes:

                            > OSD, while it's still fresh in your mind, what is the best sequence to
                            > remove the canard???
                            >
                            > I just yesterday removed the main wing (plans built) and trailered it
                            > 100mi.
                            > home in 30-40 mph winds --- no damage, but it was a real challenge!! I'm
                            > going to wait for a more pleasant day to finish the job.
                            >

                            Remove elevator bolts at inboard end of elevator.
                            Remove elevator saddles inside fuse and maybe a split tube connecting rgt
                            and
                            left elvator
                            Slide elevator linkage in and remove elevators.
                            Take the weight of the gear, I used an engine hoist.
                            Undo any springs that might connect the linkage to fuse and any wires.
                            Check to see if the heat shields for the exhaust are connected to canard or
                            firewall remove as necessary.
                            Put something under the canard so the leading edge will not fall down when
                            the bolts are removed.
                            Crawl into the footwell and remove the bolts from the forward tabs
                            Crawl out and remove the bolts from the drag spar tabs.
                            Lift the fuse off of the wing and slide the wing out sidways.

                            Have fun

                            One Sky Dog




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                          • oneskydog@aol.com
                            In a message dated 12/2/2002 5:51:34 AM Mountain Standard Time, ... Drew, How does one obtain the Raptor book ? Regards. One Sky Dog [Non-text portions of this
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 4, 2002
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                              In a message dated 12/2/2002 5:51:34 AM Mountain Standard Time,
                              aurigean@... writes:

                              > Mike,
                              >
                              > You got a copy of Raptor Build Book chapter 002 ??? it shows how to put
                              > anchors into foam so that you can install covers and such.
                              >
                              > Drew
                              >

                              Drew,

                              How does one obtain the Raptor book ?

                              Regards.
                              One Sky Dog


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • DraagunFly@aol.com
                              Fred the only gap I remember being mandated was a plans change to include a gap at the canard/fuselage junction. This was due to excess flexing upon bounced
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 9, 2002
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                                Fred
                                the only gap I remember being mandated was a plans change to include a gap at
                                the canard/fuselage junction. This was due to excess flexing upon bounced
                                landings in the mark I configuration.
                                It is true that the rear wing flexes quite a bit in tutbulance, but I know of
                                no one who has put any gap at that junction. Do, however, make the rear cover
                                removable in someway. It makes wing installation/inspection easier.
                                Richard in Chino


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                              • ARGOLDMAN@aol.com
                                In a message dated 12/9/02 10:00:49 AM Central Standard Time, ... Richard, The wing flexes in turbulence, but not a huge amount. The original plans called for
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 9, 2002
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                                  In a message dated 12/9/02 10:00:49 AM Central Standard Time,
                                  DraagunFly@... writes:


                                  > It is true that the rear wing flexes quite a bit in turbulence, but I know
                                  > of
                                  > no one who has put any gap at that junction. Do, however, make the rear
                                  > cover
                                  > removable in someway. It makes wing installation/inspection easier.
                                  > Richard in Chino
                                  >

                                  Richard,

                                  The wing flexes in turbulence, but not a huge amount.

                                  The original plans called for the turtle deck to be attached to the wing, not
                                  the rest of the fuselage. I, in my wisdom (?) made a hinged cover. The part
                                  of the turtle deck that was attached to the wing, on both sides was bolted
                                  (3/16") to the front and aft part of the turtle deck for security of the
                                  hinged top. What I did notice is that the flexion broke the filler material
                                  which hid the head of the bolt.

                                  Only a small amount of clearance is necessary, however, if it is not there,
                                  my guess is that it would cause a stress concentration at the point that the
                                  wing turtle is glassed to the wing.


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