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RE: [Dragonflylist] New Construction

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  • Spud
    Hi Richard, The Clark foam as been replaced with a product called Last-a-foam which was approved by Viking. It s available in all the same dimensions,
    Message 1 of 22 , May 1, 2007
      Hi Richard,



      The Clark foam as been replaced with a product called "Last-a-foam" which
      was approved by Viking. It's available in all the same dimensions,
      thicknesses and densities and is fuel resistant. Both Aircraft Spruce and
      Wicks show in their catalog and keep in stock.



      Spud Spornitz
      Olathe, Kansas
      spudspornitz@...
      17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Flyin, Sep 21-23, 2007 Emporia,
      Kansas
      www.tandemwing.com/fodfly-in.htm

      _____

      From: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of DraagunFly@...
      Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 11:04 AM
      To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] New Construction



      The Dragonfly was designed as a "plans" airplane - to be built from plans.
      It can still be built that way.
      The only real problem I can see is that the foam used in the fuselage -
      Clark Foam - is nolonger available.
      Perhaps a viable replacement has been identified, but I don't know what it
      is. I guess you could use the same a the Rutan designs, but I don't know if
      it
      has the same engineering strength. What ever you use must be fuel proof as
      the fuselage holds all the fuel.
      It's time comsuming, but rewarding, at least it was to me.
      Richard in Chino N85MT Mark I

      ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol
      <http://www.aol.com> com.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tom & wanda
      Spud How much of that RV 4 do you have ??? Tom S W Kansas ... From: Spud To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:02 AM Subject: RE:
      Message 2 of 22 , May 1, 2007
        Spud

        How much of that RV 4 do you have ???

        Tom S
        W Kansas
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Spud
        To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:02 AM
        Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] New Construction


        Hi Richard,

        The Clark foam as been replaced with a product called "Last-a-foam" which
        was approved by Viking. It's available in all the same dimensions,
        thicknesses and densities and is fuel resistant. Both Aircraft Spruce and
        Wicks show in their catalog and keep in stock.

        Spud Spornitz
        Olathe, Kansas
        spudspornitz@...
        17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Flyin, Sep 21-23, 2007 Emporia,
        Kansas
        www.tandemwing.com/fodfly-in.htm

        _____

        From: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of DraagunFly@...
        Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 11:04 AM
        To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] New Construction

        The Dragonfly was designed as a "plans" airplane - to be built from plans.
        It can still be built that way.
        The only real problem I can see is that the foam used in the fuselage -
        Clark Foam - is nolonger available.
        Perhaps a viable replacement has been identified, but I don't know what it
        is. I guess you could use the same a the Rutan designs, but I don't know if
        it
        has the same engineering strength. What ever you use must be fuel proof as
        the fuselage holds all the fuel.
        It's time comsuming, but rewarding, at least it was to me.
        Richard in Chino N85MT Mark I

        ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol
        <http://www.aol.com> com.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Panzera
        ... http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/r2100_engine/engine_price_guide.pd f Pat
        Message 3 of 22 , May 1, 2007
          > Reggie, Please point me to a new engine that I can buy for 6k.

          http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/r2100_engine/engine_price_guide.pd
          f

          Pat
        • Owen Strawn
          Charles, Sun-N-Fun is not an EAA event. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
          Message 4 of 22 , May 1, 2007
            Charles, Sun-N-Fun is not an EAA event.


            --- "charles W. Smith" <cwssystems@...> wrote:

            > Just got back from Fun-N-Sun where it struck me "this is a gathering
            > of millionaires" with their $100,000-$1,000,000 "homebuilts". The
            > EAA has lost it's compass, or rather, it has sold it to the big money
            > people that it was founded to bypass in it's efforts to find a way to
            > get airplanes into the hands of the "little people". What few
            > "cheap" homebuilts there were there were scattered among the
            > millionaires toys and looked oh so dinky and diminutive and
            > insignificant. EAA needs a "return to our roots" section where
            > affordable homebuilts are a completely separate segment of the
            > organization, physically and otherwise. These "peoples planes"
            > should have their own parking place away from the Rolls Royce priced
            > "homebuilts" that nobody except one of the elite among us is ever
            > going to own. These Dragonflys, Q2's, KR2's etc. looked so much
            > better back in the early 80's before the big money people discovered
            > homebuilding and smothered the EAA with their vast wealth, smothering
            > the "peoples planes" movement at the same time. Here it is 25 years
            > later and there is still no affordable power plant for us cheapos.
            > The successful auto conversions out there are priced right up there
            > with the Lycomings, Continentals, etc. Most of the efforts to
            > develop a cheap aircraft engine from auto parts have been attempted
            > by individuals with limited resources and time, or the successful
            > one's have tried to turn their success into a gold mine for
            > themselves. We need an "EAA" with lots of talent and resources and
            > time available to take on this task, and keep it a "peoples plane
            > engine" costwise all the way through success, just as the auto gas
            > STC was developed. People have been diddling around with VW and
            > Corvair engines for 45 years now still no engine with aircraft
            > trustworthiness available that is affordable by the common wage
            > earner. We must man an effort to get beyond the 'diddlers' and find
            > a way to complete the effort to take a box of cheap auto parts and
            > build a reliable aircraft engine. I know it can be done if we want to
            > do it badly enough.
            >
            > Seeing a $15,000 KR2 or Dragonfly sitting among a flock of Lancairs
            > ($499,000), RV's ($100,000 up), Velocity's ($198,000), etc. can have
            > a fatal quelling effect on the average wage earner's yen to fly.
            >
            >
            > Charles Smith
            > Dragonfly builder waiting for an engine..


            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com
          • Vern Lehman
            ... I am an A&P and ASE Certified tech. I needed the backups in my basic work which is Contract Aerospace Engineering. We get layoffs all the time at a moments
            Message 5 of 22 , May 1, 2007
              --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Allgood" <offbeat61@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Reggie, Please point me to a new engine that I can buy for 6k.
              >
              > Dave
              >

              I am an A&P and ASE Certified tech. I needed the backups in my basic
              work which is Contract Aerospace Engineering. We get layoffs all the
              time at a moments notice. It's simply part of the process. I worked up
              to White coller thru Blue on purpose and I still have strong ties to
              the "Shop" and I always will.

              So.. not new but.....
              VW conversions are acceptable for Dragonfly within its design limits,
              Subaru are also, specifically the EA series engines. In my aircraft
              that I am building, and several others already flying, the Corvair 164
              Cu In engine is a hard package to beat for the money. All of these can
              be had for under 6K or near there if your willing to build up
              yourself, which is not all that difficult and requires more attention
              to detail than Journeyman skills in the machine shop. William Wynne
              has taken the EAA ideal to heart with Chevy's little boxer 6 cylinder,
              and if the Corvair appeals to you as it does to me then I would
              suggest contact with him. Simply use his full name in your favorite
              search engine.
              And..don't loose heart.... you do not have to cash in the ranch to
              fly...and your in good company here. Dunno anyone here that is Heir to
              Elvis's Estate!! Pat can also add his imput about the Corvair as
              well, he has a very fine example of the marque. And this point too;
              Corvair engines are much easier to find than first appears. So are the
              Soobies and VW's. I paid $200 on E-bay last Spring for the core 180
              Turbocharged Corvair I own and everything was there except the Turbo
              unit itself. So far I have approximatly $3000 in it and I'm near to
              assembly of the Long Block at this point. It's not all that
              difficult..it is staying the course, attention to detail, and not re-
              inventing the wheel. You can do it!!!

              Vern Lehman
              N57VL "The Mutt"

              Currently trapped in Everett on the 777F!
            • Panzera
              Let s try this again... www.revmasteraviation.com/products/r2100_engine/engine_price_guide.pdf ($6,000 engine, new, complete, tested.) Pat
              Message 6 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                Let's try this again...

                www.revmasteraviation.com/products/r2100_engine/engine_price_guide.pdf

                ($6,000 engine, new, complete, tested.)

                Pat
              • Dave Allgood
                Reggie, Please point me to a new engine that I can buy for 6k. Dave ... From: n02ez To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:37 PM
                Message 7 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                  Reggie, Please point me to a new engine that I can buy for 6k.

                  Dave
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: n02ez
                  To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 9:37 PM
                  Subject: [Dragonflylist] Re: New Construction


                  > "charles W. Smith" <cwssystems@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Just got back from Fun-N-Sun where it struck me "this is a
                  > gathering of millionaires" with their $100,000-$1,000,000
                  >"homebuilts".
                  > Seeing a $15,000 KR2 or Dragonfly sitting among a flock of Lancairs
                  >($499,000), RV's ($100,000 up), Velocity's ($198,000), etc. can have
                  >a fatal quelling effect on the average wage earner's yen to fly.
                  >
                  >
                  > Charles Smith
                  > Dragonfly builder waiting for an engine..
                  >*******************************************************
                  All those you mention were at one time, a "HomeBuilt"..

                  A new engine for your D-Fly can be had for $6K to $16K..

                  A rebuilder goes a bunch less.......

                  The airframe can be built for around $10K.

                  You CAN build as nice an Aeroplane as those $$$,$$$.$$..

                  Nobody has been left out..You just must supply more
                  sweat equity, and to your suprise, you can find on the EAA
                  web site, just about any information you need to construct
                  register and fly your own "HomeBuilt"....

                  And there is someone there to answer your email questions...

                  If more hands on training is needed an EAA technical
                  Counselor is usually available.

                  Reggie





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Bill Spornitz
                  Hi Tom, It s an empanage & wing with the phlogstin spar. The empanage is about 50-60% completed and the wing is unstarted. First $2800.00 (this is half of
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                    Hi Tom,

                    It's an empanage & wing with the phlogstin spar. The empanage is about 50-60% completed and the wing is unstarted.

                    First $2800.00 (this is half of new), come and get.

                    Contact me off-line or call me at (913)484-0508 (cell) or at home (913)764-5118 in the evenings.

                    Regards, Spud Spornitz
                    spudspornitz@...

                    tom & wanda <twstall@...> wrote:
                    Spud

                    How much of that RV 4 do you have ???

                    Tom S
                    W Kansas
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Spud
                    To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:02 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Dragonflylist] New Construction

                    Hi Richard,

                    The Clark foam as been replaced with a product called "Last-a-foam" which
                    was approved by Viking. It's available in all the same dimensions,
                    thicknesses and densities and is fuel resistant. Both Aircraft Spruce and
                    Wicks show in their catalog and keep in stock.

                    Spud Spornitz
                    Olathe, Kansas
                    spudspornitz@...
                    17th Annual Field of Dreams Tandem Wing Flyin, Sep 21-23, 2007 Emporia,
                    Kansas
                    www.tandemwing.com/fodfly-in.htm

                    _____

                    From: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of DraagunFly@...
                    Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 11:04 AM
                    To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Dragonflylist] New Construction

                    The Dragonfly was designed as a "plans" airplane - to be built from plans.
                    It can still be built that way.
                    The only real problem I can see is that the foam used in the fuselage -
                    Clark Foam - is nolonger available.
                    Perhaps a viable replacement has been identified, but I don't know what it
                    is. I guess you could use the same a the Rutan designs, but I don't know if
                    it
                    has the same engineering strength. What ever you use must be fuel proof as
                    the fuselage holds all the fuel.
                    It's time comsuming, but rewarding, at least it was to me.
                    Richard in Chino N85MT Mark I

                    ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol
                    <http://www.aol.com> com.

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • n02ez
                    ... http://www.greatplainsas.com/gpasproducts.html http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/ r2100_engine/engine_price_guide.pdf
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                      > "Dave Allgood" <offbeat61@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Reggie, Please point me to a new engine that I can buy for 6k.
                      >
                      > Dave
                      > ********************************************

                      http://www.greatplainsas.com/gpasproducts.html

                      http://www.revmasteraviation.com/products/
                      r2100_engine/engine_price_guide.pdf
                    • n02ez
                      ... .......For the same weight as a 2180 VW.......... Jabiru 3300 120 hp engine features Price $15,900 * 4 Stroke - 3300cc (200 cubic inches) * 6 Cylinder
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                        > "Al Renter" <drifter@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > EDITED<
                        > I to am at the "waiting for an engine" phase. Looking for ideas.
                        >
                        > I not sure which direction to go and I need
                        > to talk with someone in the same boat.
                        >
                        > Al Renter
                        >
                        >*************************************************
                        .......For the same weight as a 2180 VW..........

                        Jabiru 3300 120 hp engine features Price $15,900

                        * 4 Stroke - 3300cc (200 cubic inches)
                        * 6 Cylinder Horizontally Opposed
                        * 1 Central Camshaft
                        * Push Rods
                        * Over Head Valves (OHV)
                        * Ram Air Cooled
                        * Wet Sump Lubrication

                        * Direct Propeller Drive
                        * Dual Transistorized Magneto Ignition
                        * Integrated AC Generator
                        * Electric Starter
                        * Mechanical Fuel Pump
                        * Naturally Aspirated - 1 Pressure Compensating Carburetor
                        * 6 Bearing Crankshaft

                        Ramp Weight 178 lbs (81kg) complete including exhaust, carburetor,
                        starter motor, alternator and ignition system

                        Power Rating

                        107 hp @ 2750 rpm continuous,
                        120 hp @ 3300 rpm intermittent
                        Fuel Consumption at 75% power* 26 l/hr (6.87 US gal/hr)

                        Reggie
                      • Jean François Goudard
                        Hello, I assembled Jabiru 2200 DC, 80 CH on my DGY. It weighs only 63 kg very additional included/understood (battery in of course and bati driving). Its cost
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                          Hello,
                          I assembled Jabiru 2200 DC, 80 CH on my DGY. It weighs only 63 kg very
                          additional included/understood (battery in of course and bati driving). Its
                          cost is very advantageous and its petrol consumption also. Attention with
                          the centering of the plane in the case of an assembly of this type of
                          engine.
                          To make the weighing of the fuselage alone well, then with the engine
                          assembled with various positions in front of the wall fire protection.
                          So long. In a friendly way
                          JF GOUDARD - FRANCE
                          DGY F-PVJF
                          goudard.jf.expert@...

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "n02ez" <Reggie@...>
                          To: <Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:15 PM
                          Subject: [Dragonflylist] Re: New Construction


                          >> "Al Renter" <drifter@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >> EDITED<
                          >> I to am at the "waiting for an engine" phase. Looking for ideas.
                          >>
                          >> I not sure which direction to go and I need
                          >> to talk with someone in the same boat.
                          >>
                          >> Al Renter
                          >>
                          >>*************************************************
                          > .......For the same weight as a 2180 VW..........
                          >
                          > Jabiru 3300 120 hp engine features Price $15,900
                          >
                          > * 4 Stroke - 3300cc (200 cubic inches)
                          > * 6 Cylinder Horizontally Opposed
                          > * 1 Central Camshaft
                          > * Push Rods
                          > * Over Head Valves (OHV)
                          > * Ram Air Cooled
                          > * Wet Sump Lubrication
                          >
                          > * Direct Propeller Drive
                          > * Dual Transistorized Magneto Ignition
                          > * Integrated AC Generator
                          > * Electric Starter
                          > * Mechanical Fuel Pump
                          > * Naturally Aspirated - 1 Pressure Compensating Carburetor
                          > * 6 Bearing Crankshaft
                          >
                          > Ramp Weight 178 lbs (81kg) complete including exhaust, carburetor,
                          > starter motor, alternator and ignition system
                          >
                          > Power Rating
                          >
                          > 107 hp @ 2750 rpm continuous,
                          > 120 hp @ 3300 rpm intermittent
                          > Fuel Consumption at 75% power* 26 l/hr (6.87 US gal/hr)
                          >
                          > Reggie
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • charles W. Smith
                          I have about ten grand invested and have built to the point where I am ready to sand and paint, and that includes two VW engines. Since I started the VW has
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                            I have about ten grand invested and have built to the point where I am ready to sand and paint, and that includes two VW engines. Since I started the VW has set an abysmal record for reliability and safety. If I ever fly it it will probably be behind a Jibaru ($8,000-$14,000) unless someone comes up with something better. I really want something that I can feel safe to get out of the local airport landing pattern with. What is the source of your $6K engine? Why can't someone come up with a crankshaft/block assembly with the proper bearings to support a propeller that otherwise uses VW or other auto parts for the rest of it, at a cost that beats the certified engines? Using the Jibaru puts me into the cost range of many store bought planes.

                            Charles Smith

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • rick_nordgarden
                            ... proper bearings to support a propeller that otherwise uses VW or other auto parts for the rest of it, at a cost that beats the certified engines? Because
                            Message 13 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                              --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, "charles W. Smith"
                              <cwssystems@...> wrote:
                              >Why can't someone come up with a crankshaft/block assembly with the
                              proper bearings to support a propeller that otherwise uses VW or other
                              auto parts for the rest of it, at a cost that beats the certified
                              engines?

                              Because the market's too small to bring the per-unit cost down to that
                              level. The necessary castings and forgings would entail large start-up
                              costs which couldn't be amortized over very many engines. Look at how
                              prices of hot-rod/dune-buggy VW parts have gone up as that market has
                              shrunk. Any adapted engine couldn't be much cheaper than the four-
                              cylinder Jabiru.

                              Rick Nordgarden
                              Council Bluffs, IA
                            • Rene Robertson
                              Hi Charles, I am not aware of any Revmaster engine that has set an abysmal record for reliablity and safety. I have about 850 hours behind my Revmaster 2100
                              Message 14 of 22 , May 1, 2007
                                Hi Charles,
                                I am not aware of any Revmaster engine that has set an "abysmal" record for reliablity and safety.
                                I have about 850 hours behind my Revmaster 2100 and it has never let me down catastrophically. I fly this engine at least a couple of times a week and not just around the pattern. It is a very reliable engine and I have written an article about it in an issue of Q-talk last year.
                                Check out http://revmasteraviation.com/
                                The new Revmaster 2100 is a fully assembled and test run engine for less than $6K. They are using good quality components.
                                Others have also had good success with Great Plains engines and Aerovee engines. There is a Sonex flier with over 650 hours on his 2180 Aerovee with no major issues.
                                You can feel safe with the right VW conversion.
                                Rene
                                Q2 C-FBWV


                                "charles W. Smith" <cwssystems@...> wrote:
                                I have about ten grand invested and have built to the point where I am ready to sand and paint, and that includes two VW engines. Since I started the VW has set an abysmal record for reliability and safety. If I ever fly it it will probably be behind a Jibaru ($8,000-$14,000) unless someone comes up with something better. I really want something that I can feel safe to get out of the local airport landing pattern with. What is the source of your $6K engine? Why can't someone come up with a crankshaft/block assembly with the proper bearings to support a propeller that otherwise uses VW or other auto parts for the rest of it, at a cost that beats the certified engines? Using the Jibaru puts me into the cost range of many store bought planes.

                                Charles Smith

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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