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fuselage canard cutout

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  • Joshua Seifert
    Howdy, Quick and most likely stupid question. I am doing the cutouts for the fuselage/canard area and the measurements do don t really match up. The
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 1, 2005
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      Howdy,

      Quick and most likely stupid question. I am doing the cutouts for the fuselage/canard area and the measurements do don't really match up. The measurement from the front of the fuselage side to the aft face of the canard lift bulkhead is 11.3". With that lined up with the shear web and offset .25" for the lift fitting, there is still about .75" to an 1" from the drag spar to the drag bulkhead (which begins at ~25". I know it says that the drag bulkhead is custom placed, but this seems like something is wrong or I am not seeing something else or just making bad measurements or something....

      My canard BL-14.5 drawing measures right around 24" from tip to drag spar. The only reason I mention this is that my drawings definitely look like copies and I just want to make sure that they are not bad copies.

      Thanks,
      Josh Seifert
      MK-IIH
      N747YM




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    • Dave Morris "BigD"
      Take a look at the pages in the plans where you mate up the canard with the drag bulkhead. You ll see that you put several layers of duct tape on the forward
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 1, 2005
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        Take a look at the pages in the plans where you mate up the canard with the
        drag bulkhead. You'll see that you put several layers of duct tape on the
        forward face of the drag bulkhead as a spacer. That may explain the
        distance you're seeing.

        Dave Morris

        At 06:44 PM 10/1/2005, you wrote:
        >Howdy,
        >
        >Quick and most likely stupid question. I am doing the cutouts for the
        >fuselage/canard area and the measurements do don't really match up. The
        >measurement from the front of the fuselage side to the aft face of the
        >canard lift bulkhead is 11.3". With that lined up with the shear web and
        >offset .25" for the lift fitting, there is still about .75" to an 1" from
        >the drag spar to the drag bulkhead (which begins at ~25". I know it says
        >that the drag bulkhead is custom placed, but this seems like something is
        >wrong or I am not seeing something else or just making bad measurements or
        >something....
        >
        >My canard BL-14.5 drawing measures right around 24" from tip to drag
        >spar. The only reason I mention this is that my drawings definitely look
        >like copies and I just want to make sure that they are not bad copies.
        >
        >Thanks,
        >Josh Seifert
        >MK-IIH
        >N747YM
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        >concerning this information by anyone other than the intended recipient,
        >is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this
        >communication in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy
        >this communication.
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      • dflybldr
        There are many other factors that come into play here as well that affect the final dimensions. Things like the fact that the cutout in the fuselage side is
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 2, 2005
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          There are many other factors that come into play here as well that
          affect the final dimensions. Things like the fact that the cutout in
          the fuselage side is made while flat, then curved a bit when finished
          will tend to reduce the final dimension. Also, when the fuselage is
          finished, the leading edge of the canard is not exactly aligened with
          the front of the cutout, and remember that the canard/fuselage cutout
          should not be a tight fit anyway. That is how canards break/delam on
          landing. (stress riser) You also need to account for the variability
          of builder specific layup technique. Fat canard from heavy layup and
          lots of micro makes a finished canard that might not fit. I think
          that Bob probably made this dimension big enough so that any canard
          will fit no matter what.

          Are you building from scratch with new or old plans sets?

          Is the plane buit yet or is this a rebuild?

          If you are building from scratch please let this group know as we can
          save you tons of time, money, and hair.

          It's real easy to out think these plans. They are not perfect, but
          Bob Walters was very good at taking a first time builder into account
          and making allowances so things work out in the end.

          Tom in Tucson

          --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, "Joshua Seifert" <joshuas@h...>
          wrote:
          > Howdy,
          >
          > Quick and most likely stupid question. I am doing the cutouts for
          the fuselage/canard area and the measurements do don't really match
          up. The measurement from the front of the fuselage side to the aft
          face of the canard lift bulkhead is 11.3". With that lined up with
          the shear web and offset .25" for the lift fitting, there is still
          about .75" to an 1" from the drag spar to the drag bulkhead (which
          begins at ~25". I know it says that the drag bulkhead is custom
          placed, but this seems like something is wrong or I am not seeing
          something else or just making bad measurements or something....
          >
          > My canard BL-14.5 drawing measures right around 24" from tip to drag
          spar. The only reason I mention this is that my drawings definitely
          look like copies and I just want to make sure that they are not bad
          copies.
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Josh Seifert
          > MK-IIH
          > N747YM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --------------------------------------------------------
          >
          >
          > This electronic transmission and any attached files are solely for
          the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged,
          confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review,
          retransmission, dissemination or other use, including taking any
          action concerning this information by anyone other than the intended
          recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or
          have received this communication in error, please immediately notify
          the sender and destroy this communication.
        • Joshua Seifert
          Thanks for the response. I think your advice of not thinking too much into the plans is good. The curve of the fuselage will reduce the gap and that probably
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 2, 2005
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            Thanks for the response. I think your advice of not thinking too much into the plans is good. The curve of the fuselage will reduce the gap and that probably explains it.

            I am building from scratch a mk-IIh with a set of plans from Dart (altough they are not new).

            Thanks,
            Josh.

            ________________________________

            From: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com on behalf of dflybldr
            Sent: Sun 10/2/2005 11:46 AM
            To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Dragonflylist] Re: fuselage canard cutout


            There are many other factors that come into play here as well that
            affect the final dimensions. Things like the fact that the cutout in
            the fuselage side is made while flat, then curved a bit when finished
            will tend to reduce the final dimension. Also, when the fuselage is
            finished, the leading edge of the canard is not exactly aligened with
            the front of the cutout, and remember that the canard/fuselage cutout
            should not be a tight fit anyway. That is how canards break/delam on
            landing. (stress riser) You also need to account for the variability
            of builder specific layup technique. Fat canard from heavy layup and
            lots of micro makes a finished canard that might not fit. I think
            that Bob probably made this dimension big enough so that any canard
            will fit no matter what.

            Are you building from scratch with new or old plans sets?

            Is the plane buit yet or is this a rebuild?

            If you are building from scratch please let this group know as we can
            save you tons of time, money, and hair.

            It's real easy to out think these plans. They are not perfect, but
            Bob Walters was very good at taking a first time builder into account
            and making allowances so things work out in the end.

            Tom in Tucson

            --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, "Joshua Seifert" <joshuas@h...>
            wrote:
            > Howdy,
            >
            > Quick and most likely stupid question. I am doing the cutouts for
            the fuselage/canard area and the measurements do don't really match
            up. The measurement from the front of the fuselage side to the aft
            face of the canard lift bulkhead is 11.3". With that lined up with
            the shear web and offset .25" for the lift fitting, there is still
            about .75" to an 1" from the drag spar to the drag bulkhead (which
            begins at ~25". I know it says that the drag bulkhead is custom
            placed, but this seems like something is wrong or I am not seeing
            something else or just making bad measurements or something....
            >
            > My canard BL-14.5 drawing measures right around 24" from tip to drag
            spar. The only reason I mention this is that my drawings definitely
            look like copies and I just want to make sure that they are not bad
            copies.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Josh Seifert
            > MK-IIH
            > N747YM
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------
            >
            >
            > This electronic transmission and any attached files are solely for
            the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged,
            confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review,
            retransmission, dissemination or other use, including taking any
            action concerning this information by anyone other than the intended
            recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or
            have received this communication in error, please immediately notify
            the sender and destroy this communication.





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            This electronic transmission and any attached files are solely for the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use, including taking any action concerning this information by anyone other than the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender and destroy this communication.
          • DraagunFly@aol.com
            Josh, Congrats for scratch building. Not many do that anymore. I scratch built my Mark I back in the 80 s. The plans are really pretty good if you study them.
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 3, 2005
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              Josh,
              Congrats for scratch building. Not many do that anymore. I scratch built my
              Mark I back in the 80's. The plans are really pretty good if you study them.
              The one area that require CAREFUL attention is canard-Wing alignment. Bob
              unfortunately switches back and forth with the terms "water line" and "level
              Line" which has lead many builders to go astray at this critical point. No
              matter how screwed up you get these dimensions, the airplane will fly, but if you
              get them wrong it may not perform as well as it could, and you may end up
              with a wing-canard that"s fighting each other. (Dragonfly is not very trimable
              even with these numbers right. Very few Dragonfly pilots bother with the trim
              after they get it flying hands off level, except when they have a passenger).
              Anyhow, make sure you know what you are trying to accomplish and check,
              re-check, double check everything when you are setting these surfaces.
              Also, remember that all changes to the original plans, including the
              in-board gear, flat canard, forward hinging canopy, etc., were without Bob's
              approval or expertise (he was an aeronautical engineer), so you have to think these
              thru because the directions vary with every person who has done it. Any of
              these later changes will require a certain independence of thought that some
              people have trouble with.
              Good luck and have fun (except the sanding of course, which EVERYBOBY
              hates!).
              Richard in Chino


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dflybldr
              You also might want to check the file N39XDMods.txt in the files section for an incomplete list of nice to have and mandantory mods that builders have done
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 3, 2005
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                You also might want to check the file N39XDMods.txt in the files
                section for an incomplete list of nice to have and mandantory mods
                that builders have done over the years. I have no idea how many have
                been incoporated into the new plans from Dart.


                Tom in Tucosn
                N39XD O-200 EFI Dfly

                --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, "Joshua Seifert" <joshuas@h...>
                wrote:
                > Howdy,
                >
                > Quick and most likely stupid question. I am doing the cutouts for
                the fuselage/canard area and the measurements do don't really match
                up. The measurement from the front of the fuselage side to the aft
                face of the canard lift bulkhead is 11.3". With that lined up with
                the shear web and offset .25" for the lift fitting, there is still
                about .75" to an 1" from the drag spar to the drag bulkhead (which
                begins at ~25". I know it says that the drag bulkhead is custom
                placed, but this seems like something is wrong or I am not seeing
                something else or just making bad measurements or something....
                >
                > My canard BL-14.5 drawing measures right around 24" from tip to
                drag spar. The only reason I mention this is that my drawings
                definitely look like copies and I just want to make sure that they
                are not bad copies.
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Josh Seifert
                > MK-IIH
                > N747YM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------
                >
                >
                > This electronic transmission and any attached files are solely for
                the intended recipient and may contain information that is
                privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any
                review, retransmission, dissemination or other use, including taking
                any action concerning this information by anyone other than the
                intended recipient, is prohibited. If you are not the intended
                recipient or have received this communication in error, please
                immediately notify the sender and destroy this communication.
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