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Sticky surface

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  • SkySailor@kc.rr.com
    I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the one ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified ok but the surface is
    Message 1 of 17 , Dec 2, 2004
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      I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the one
      ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified ok but
      the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting any
      less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the sample
      layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can be. The
      epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to mix the
      epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70. The
      other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is humidity
      or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture. This
      makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive wasted
      about 60 dollars worth of material.
      Any ideas?
    • HAIQU_OZ
      Hi, You re not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk newsletters from 1993 just a couple days ago, and saw a note suggesting a fix for this.
      Message 2 of 17 , Dec 2, 2004
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        Hi,

        You're not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk
        newsletters from 1993 just a couple days ago, and saw a note
        suggesting a fix for this. Simply scrub the excess surface resin off
        with soap and water.

        Rob

        --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
        >
        > I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the one
        > ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified ok but
        > the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting any
        > less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the sample
        > layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can be. The
        > epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to mix the
        > epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70. The
        > other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is humidity
        > or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture. This
        > makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive wasted
        > about 60 dollars worth of material.
        > Any ideas?
      • SkySailor@kc.rr.com
        I was reading through the some info my self last night and came across the Aeropoxy website and I guess they call it something like amine blush Something
        Message 3 of 17 , Dec 3, 2004
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          I was reading through the some info my self last night and came across
          the Aeropoxy website and I guess they call it something like "amine
          blush" Something about the humidity and such reacting with the surface
          resin only. Said it wasnt a big deal and to wash it off like you said.
          After trimming the foam away around the edges , I found its just as hard
          as any other glass.
          Thanks!

          HAIQU_OZ wrote:

          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > You're not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk
          > newsletters from 1993 just a couple days ago, and saw a note
          > suggesting a fix for this. Simply scrub the excess surface resin off
          > with soap and water.
          >
          > Rob
          >
          > --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
          > >
          > > I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the one
          > > ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified ok but
          > > the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting any
          > > less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the sample
          > > layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can be. The
          > > epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to mix the
          > > epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70. The
          > > other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is humidity
          > > or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture. This
          > > makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive wasted
          > > about 60 dollars worth of material.
          > > Any ideas?
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Dave Morris
          The tackiness is normal and varies with humidity. Give it a few days or weeks and it won t be tacky any more. Dave Morris
          Message 4 of 17 , Dec 3, 2004
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            The tackiness is normal and varies with humidity. Give it a few days or
            weeks and it won't be tacky any more.

            Dave Morris

            At 03:49 AM 12/3/2004 +0000, you wrote:



            >I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the one
            >ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified ok but
            >the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting any
            >less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the sample
            >layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can be. The
            >epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to mix the
            >epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70. The
            >other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is humidity
            >or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture. This
            >makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive wasted
            >about 60 dollars worth of material.
            >Any ideas?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Dave Morris
            Boy I don t know about that one. I have never washed resin off a layup. If that was written in 1993, make sure they are talking about the same Aeropoxy as we
            Message 5 of 17 , Dec 3, 2004
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              Boy I don't know about that one. I have never washed resin off a
              layup. If that was written in 1993, make sure they are talking about the
              same Aeropoxy as we are using. Back then we were just switching over from
              a previous type of epoxy that had different characteristics. I think it
              was the Saf-T-Poxy.

              Dave Morris


              At 06:23 AM 12/3/2004 +0000, you wrote:



              >Hi,
              >
              >You're not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk
              >newsletters from 1993 just a couple days ago, and saw a note
              >suggesting a fix for this. Simply scrub the excess surface resin off
              >with soap and water.
              >
              >Rob
              >
              >--- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
              > >
              > > I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the one
              > > ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified ok but
              > > the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting any
              > > less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the sample
              > > layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can be. The
              > > epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to mix the
              > > epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70. The
              > > other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is humidity
              > > or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture. This
              > > makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive wasted
              > > about 60 dollars worth of material.
              > > Any ideas?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • eosraptor1
              It is not resin you are washing off. It is a by-product of the epoxy catalizing process called amine blush. We get it all the time in Florida. When the
              Message 6 of 17 , Dec 3, 2004
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                It is not resin you are washing off. It is a by-product of the epoxy
                catalizing process called amine blush.

                We get it all the time in Florida. When the humidity stays 80% and
                the temp drops below 70 we have sticky surfaces.

                I wash it off with Prep-Sol ( wax and film remover ). It is non
                agressive and will take the blush off.

                Dont let that get on the blue foam.

                Soap and water will just aggrivate the problem.

                Once blush has happened here in Sunny FL, no amount of heat will stop
                it.

                Drew




                --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, Dave Morris <BigD@D...> wrote:
                > Boy I don't know about that one. I have never washed resin off a
                > layup. If that was written in 1993, make sure they are talking
                about the
                > same Aeropoxy as we are using. Back then we were just switching
                over from
                > a previous type of epoxy that had different characteristics. I
                think it
                > was the Saf-T-Poxy.
                >
                > Dave Morris
                >
                >
                > At 06:23 AM 12/3/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > >Hi,
                > >
                > >You're not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk
                > >newsletters from 1993 just a couple days ago, and saw a note
                > >suggesting a fix for this. Simply scrub the excess surface resin
                off
                > >with soap and water.
                > >
                > >Rob
                > >
                > >--- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
                > > >
                > > > I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with
                the one
                > > > ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified
                ok but
                > > > the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting
                any
                > > > less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the
                sample
                > > > layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can
                be. The
                > > > epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to
                mix the
                > > > epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70.
                The
                > > > other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is
                humidity
                > > > or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture.
                This
                > > > makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive
                wasted
                > > > about 60 dollars worth of material.
                > > > Any ideas?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
              • oneskydog@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/2/2004 8:52:03 PM Mountain Standard Time, SkySailor@kc.rr.com writes: I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the
                Message 7 of 17 , Dec 3, 2004
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                  In a message dated 12/2/2004 8:52:03 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                  SkySailor@... writes:

                  I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with the one
                  ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified ok but
                  the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting any
                  less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the sample
                  layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can be. The
                  epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to mix the
                  epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70. The
                  other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is humidity
                  or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture. This
                  makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive wasted
                  about 60 dollars worth of material.
                  Any ideas?




                  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                  Try another mix using a straight fraction of the mix ratio: ie. 100/27pbw
                  /2= 50g + 13.5 g

                  Check your scale accuracy it should be better than 1% of the smallest mix
                  componant. So for a 13.5 gram part B scale should be able to read to 0.13g. If
                  not get some vet syringes at 60cc and mix by volume.

                  I would guess it is off ratio.

                  Regards,

                  One Sky Dog


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • oneskydog@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/2/2004 11:25:30 PM Mountain Standard Time, judd@ob-wan.com writes: Hi, You re not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk
                  Message 8 of 17 , Dec 3, 2004
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                    In a message dated 12/2/2004 11:25:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                    judd@... writes:

                    Hi,

                    You're not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk
                    newsletters from 1993 just a couple days ago, and saw a note
                    suggesting a fix for this. Simply scrub the excess surface resin off
                    with soap and water.

                    Rob




                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

                    Oh yea if you live in the wet it might be amine blush like he says if it is
                    it is water soluable and you need to wash it off before sanding for secondary
                    bonds. PTM&W usually does not do this West System 105/206 blushes all the
                    time.

                    Regards,

                    One Sky Dog


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • SkySailor@kc.rr.com
                    Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today and they confirmed it is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn t happen as bad as it did in the past but
                    Message 9 of 17 , Dec 3, 2004
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                      Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today and they confirmed it
                      is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't happen as bad as it did
                      in the past but confirms as most of you know im sure that it does still
                      happen. I had not heard of it though and was rather nervous the parts
                      where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet here in kansas city
                      the last month and im sure the basement isn't as dry as it should be.
                      Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down there.
                      Thanks again ,
                      Dan

                      eosraptor1 wrote:

                      >
                      > It is not resin you are washing off. It is a by-product of the epoxy
                      > catalizing process called amine blush.
                      >
                      > We get it all the time in Florida. When the humidity stays 80% and
                      > the temp drops below 70 we have sticky surfaces.
                      >
                      > I wash it off with Prep-Sol ( wax and film remover ). It is non
                      > agressive and will take the blush off.
                      >
                      > Dont let that get on the blue foam.
                      >
                      > Soap and water will just aggrivate the problem.
                      >
                      > Once blush has happened here in Sunny FL, no amount of heat will stop
                      > it.
                      >
                      > Drew
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, Dave Morris <BigD@D...> wrote:
                      > > Boy I don't know about that one. I have never washed resin off a
                      > > layup. If that was written in 1993, make sure they are talking
                      > about the
                      > > same Aeropoxy as we are using. Back then we were just switching
                      > over from
                      > > a previous type of epoxy that had different characteristics. I
                      > think it
                      > > was the Saf-T-Poxy.
                      > >
                      > > Dave Morris
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > At 06:23 AM 12/3/2004 +0000, you wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > >Hi,
                      > > >
                      > > >You're not screwed just yet. I was reading the Quickie Q-Talk
                      > > >newsletters from 1993 just a couple days ago, and saw a note
                      > > >suggesting a fix for this. Simply scrub the excess surface resin
                      > off
                      > > >with soap and water.
                      > > >
                      > > >Rob
                      > > >
                      > > >--- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I have an issue. I laid up two bulkheads about a week ago with
                      > the one
                      > > > > ply of bid on the back side. The epoxy seems to have solidified
                      > ok but
                      > > > > the surface is just barely tacky and doesnt seem to be getting
                      > any
                      > > > > less tacky with time. Now ive used this aeropoxy to do the
                      > sample
                      > > > > layups and all seemed to work out fine. They are dry as can
                      > be. The
                      > > > > epoxy is brand new from wicks. I used the same measurements to
                      > mix the
                      > > > > epoxy as well. The temp in the basement is usually around 70.
                      > The
                      > > > > other layups seemed to work out fine. All I can think of is
                      > humidity
                      > > > > or maybe I had a brain "xxxx" and just screwed up the mixture.
                      > This
                      > > > > makes me rather nervous seeing that if this doesnt work out ive
                      > wasted
                      > > > > about 60 dollars worth of material.
                      > > > > Any ideas?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > ADVERTISEMENT
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                      >
                      >
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                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • agwous
                      I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid. I had this problem early on. I get around this by using nylon fabric which I purchased from Walmart.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Dec 6, 2004
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                        I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid. I had this
                        problem early on. I get around this by using nylon fabric which I
                        purchased from Walmart. After the layup is done I put the fabric
                        on. The nylon fabric does not soak up any resin. It does keep the
                        humidity from reacting with the surface. It peels off real nice and
                        leaves a nice surface.

                        Andy



                        --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
                        > Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today and they
                        confirmed it
                        > is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't happen as bad as it
                        did
                        > in the past but confirms as most of you know im sure that it does
                        still
                        > happen. I had not heard of it though and was rather nervous the
                        parts
                        > where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet here in kansas
                        city
                        > the last month and im sure the basement isn't as dry as it should
                        be.
                        > Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down there.
                        > Thanks again ,
                        > Dan
                        >
                      • DAVID ALGUIRE
                        ... this is good , what part of the store is it in and how is it packaged ? thanks for sharing a good idea dave
                        Message 11 of 17 , Dec 6, 2004
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                          --- agwous <awomack@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid.
                          > I had this
                          > problem early on. I get around this by using nylon
                          > fabric which I
                          > purchased from Walmart. After the layup is done I
                          > put the fabric
                          > on. The nylon fabric does not soak up any resin.
                          > It does keep the
                          > humidity from reacting with the surface. It peels
                          > off real nice and
                          > leaves a nice surface.
                          >
                          > Andy
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k...
                          > wrote:
                          > > Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today
                          > and they
                          > confirmed it
                          > > is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't
                          > happen as bad as it
                          > did
                          > > in the past but confirms as most of you know im
                          > sure that it does
                          > still
                          > > happen. I had not heard of it though and was
                          > rather nervous the
                          > parts
                          > > where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet
                          > here in kansas
                          > city
                          > > the last month and im sure the basement isn't as
                          > dry as it should
                          > be.
                          > > Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down
                          > there.
                          > > Thanks again ,
                          > > Dan
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          this is good , what part of the store is it in and
                          how is it packaged ?
                          thanks for sharing a good idea
                          dave

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                        • Dave Morris "BigD"
                          Is it Nylon or Dacron? Dave Morris
                          Message 12 of 17 , Dec 6, 2004
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                            Is it Nylon or Dacron?

                            Dave Morris

                            At 05:44 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote:


                            >--- agwous <awomack@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid.
                            > > I had this
                            > > problem early on. I get around this by using nylon
                            > > fabric which I
                            > > purchased from Walmart. After the layup is done I
                            > > put the fabric
                            > > on. The nylon fabric does not soak up any resin.
                            > > It does keep the
                            > > humidity from reacting with the surface. It peels
                            > > off real nice and
                            > > leaves a nice surface.
                            > >
                            > > Andy
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k...
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today
                            > > and they
                            > > confirmed it
                            > > > is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't
                            > > happen as bad as it
                            > > did
                            > > > in the past but confirms as most of you know im
                            > > sure that it does
                            > > still
                            > > > happen. I had not heard of it though and was
                            > > rather nervous the
                            > > parts
                            > > > where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet
                            > > here in kansas
                            > > city
                            > > > the last month and im sure the basement isn't as
                            > > dry as it should
                            > > be.
                            > > > Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down
                            > > there.
                            > > > Thanks again ,
                            > > > Dan
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >this is good , what part of the store is it in and
                            >how is it packaged ?
                            >thanks for sharing a good idea
                            >dave
                            >
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                          • Letempt, Jeffrey CW4
                            Andy, I know Charlie will expand on this, but you are basically talking about peel ply. I have not had any problems using the Wal Mart $1 per yard peel ply
                            Message 13 of 17 , Dec 6, 2004
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                              Andy,

                              I know Charlie will expand on this, but you are basically talking about peel
                              ply. I have not had any problems using the Wal Mart $1 per yard peel ply
                              substitute, but it is really not recommended (especially for glass to glass
                              bonds). I have used it for that purpose, but you should really use aircraft
                              quality peel ply available from various sources like Wicks. Charlie
                              explained during the composite construction class at the fly-in that the
                              fabric store nylon has sizing chemicals that are added to the fabric during
                              the manufacturing process. The peel ply that you buy at Wicks (or other
                              aviation suppliers) will not have these extra sizing chemicals added. I am
                              not a composite engineer, but after hearing Charlie's comments I would
                              recommend against using a slightly cheaper fabric store nylon (especially
                              for areas where you will be making a glass to glass bond). It may cost you
                              an extra $25 to build your airplane using peel ply rather than the cheaper
                              fabric store nylon.

                              Charlie - would the cheapier $1 per yard nylon be ok to use in areas where
                              we were not going to make a glass to glass bond?

                              Jeff



                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: agwous
                              To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: 12/6/2004 4:57 PM
                              Subject: [Dragonflylist] Re: Sticky surface



                              I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid. I had this
                              problem early on. I get around this by using nylon fabric which I
                              purchased from Walmart. After the layup is done I put the fabric
                              on. The nylon fabric does not soak up any resin. It does keep the
                              humidity from reacting with the surface. It peels off real nice and
                              leaves a nice surface.

                              Andy



                              --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
                              > Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today and they
                              confirmed it
                              > is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't happen as bad as it
                              did
                              > in the past but confirms as most of you know im sure that it does
                              still
                              > happen. I had not heard of it though and was rather nervous the
                              parts
                              > where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet here in kansas
                              city
                              > the last month and im sure the basement isn't as dry as it should
                              be.
                              > Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down there.
                              > Thanks again ,
                              > Dan
                              >








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                            • Dave Morris "BigD"
                              I ve bought pure 100% Dacron (dress liner) by the yard at the fabric store for a fraction of what you pay for a few little rolls at Wicks. I ve used it to
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 6, 2004
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                                I've bought pure 100% Dacron (dress liner) by the yard at the fabric store
                                for a fraction of what you pay for a few little rolls at Wicks. I've used
                                it to smooth out layups where the desired effect is mainly cosmetic instead
                                of structural. But I don't know about Nylon, and you've got to be sure
                                with the dress liner that it does not contain cotton, because that will
                                stick to the epoxy.

                                Dave Morris


                                At 07:51 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote:

                                >Andy,
                                >
                                >I know Charlie will expand on this, but you are basically talking about peel
                                >ply. I have not had any problems using the Wal Mart $1 per yard peel ply
                                >substitute, but it is really not recommended (especially for glass to glass
                                >bonds). I have used it for that purpose, but you should really use aircraft
                                >quality peel ply available from various sources like Wicks. Charlie
                                >explained during the composite construction class at the fly-in that the
                                >fabric store nylon has sizing chemicals that are added to the fabric during
                                >the manufacturing process. The peel ply that you buy at Wicks (or other
                                >aviation suppliers) will not have these extra sizing chemicals added. I am
                                >not a composite engineer, but after hearing Charlie's comments I would
                                >recommend against using a slightly cheaper fabric store nylon (especially
                                >for areas where you will be making a glass to glass bond). It may cost you
                                >an extra $25 to build your airplane using peel ply rather than the cheaper
                                >fabric store nylon.
                                >
                                >Charlie - would the cheapier $1 per yard nylon be ok to use in areas where
                                >we were not going to make a glass to glass bond?
                                >
                                >Jeff
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >-----Original Message-----
                                >From: agwous
                                >To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                                >Sent: 12/6/2004 4:57 PM
                                >Subject: [Dragonflylist] Re: Sticky surface
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid. I had this
                                >problem early on. I get around this by using nylon fabric which I
                                >purchased from Walmart. After the layup is done I put the fabric
                                >on. The nylon fabric does not soak up any resin. It does keep the
                                >humidity from reacting with the surface. It peels off real nice and
                                >leaves a nice surface.
                                >
                                >Andy
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >--- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
                                > > Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today and they
                                >confirmed it
                                > > is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't happen as bad as it
                                >did
                                > > in the past but confirms as most of you know im sure that it does
                                >still
                                > > happen. I had not heard of it though and was rather nervous the
                                >parts
                                > > where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet here in kansas
                                >city
                                > > the last month and im sure the basement isn't as dry as it should
                                >be.
                                > > Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down there.
                                > > Thanks again ,
                                > > Dan
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                              • SkySailor@kc.rr.com
                                I went to hancock fabrics and bought 100% Polyester backing, the shiny stuff, and used it. Seem to peel off just fine and leaves the surface good and dull.
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 6, 2004
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                                  I went to hancock fabrics and bought 100% Polyester backing, the shiny
                                  stuff, and used it. Seem to peel off just fine and leaves the surface
                                  good and dull. I cant imagine that its much different than the stuff
                                  wicks is selling but who am I.

                                  Dave Morris "BigD" wrote:

                                  > I've bought pure 100% Dacron (dress liner) by the yard at the fabric
                                  > store
                                  > for a fraction of what you pay for a few little rolls at Wicks. I've
                                  > used
                                  > it to smooth out layups where the desired effect is mainly cosmetic
                                  > instead
                                  > of structural. But I don't know about Nylon, and you've got to be sure
                                  > with the dress liner that it does not contain cotton, because that will
                                  > stick to the epoxy.
                                  >
                                  > Dave Morris
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > At 07:51 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Andy,
                                  > >
                                  > >I know Charlie will expand on this, but you are basically talking
                                  > about peel
                                  > >ply. I have not had any problems using the Wal Mart $1 per yard peel ply
                                  > >substitute, but it is really not recommended (especially for glass to
                                  > glass
                                  > >bonds). I have used it for that purpose, but you should really use
                                  > aircraft
                                  > >quality peel ply available from various sources like Wicks. Charlie
                                  > >explained during the composite construction class at the fly-in that the
                                  > >fabric store nylon has sizing chemicals that are added to the fabric
                                  > during
                                  > >the manufacturing process. The peel ply that you buy at Wicks (or other
                                  > >aviation suppliers) will not have these extra sizing chemicals
                                  > added. I am
                                  > >not a composite engineer, but after hearing Charlie's comments I would
                                  > >recommend against using a slightly cheaper fabric store nylon (especially
                                  > >for areas where you will be making a glass to glass bond). It may
                                  > cost you
                                  > >an extra $25 to build your airplane using peel ply rather than the
                                  > cheaper
                                  > >fabric store nylon.
                                  > >
                                  > >Charlie - would the cheapier $1 per yard nylon be ok to use in areas
                                  > where
                                  > >we were not going to make a glass to glass bond?
                                  > >
                                  > >Jeff
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >-----Original Message-----
                                  > >From: agwous
                                  > >To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > >Sent: 12/6/2004 4:57 PM
                                  > >Subject: [Dragonflylist] Re: Sticky surface
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid. I had this
                                  > >problem early on. I get around this by using nylon fabric which I
                                  > >purchased from Walmart. After the layup is done I put the fabric
                                  > >on. The nylon fabric does not soak up any resin. It does keep the
                                  > >humidity from reacting with the surface. It peels off real nice and
                                  > >leaves a nice surface.
                                  > >
                                  > >Andy
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >--- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
                                  > > > Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today and they
                                  > >confirmed it
                                  > > > is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't happen as bad as it
                                  > >did
                                  > > > in the past but confirms as most of you know im sure that it does
                                  > >still
                                  > > > happen. I had not heard of it though and was rather nervous the
                                  > >parts
                                  > > > where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet here in kansas
                                  > >city
                                  > > > the last month and im sure the basement isn't as dry as it should
                                  > >be.
                                  > > > Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down there.
                                  > > > Thanks again ,
                                  > > > Dan
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • oneskydog@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 12/6/2004 6:53:21 PM Mountain Standard Time, jeffrey.letempt@us.army.mil writes: Andy, I know Charlie will expand on this, but you are
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Dec 6, 2004
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                                    In a message dated 12/6/2004 6:53:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
                                    jeffrey.letempt@... writes:

                                    Andy,

                                    I know Charlie will expand on this, but you are basically talking about peel
                                    ply. I have not had any problems using the Wal Mart $1 per yard peel ply
                                    substitute, but it is really not recommended (especially for glass to glass
                                    bonds). I have used it for that purpose, but you should really use aircraft
                                    quality peel ply available from various sources like Wicks. Charlie
                                    explained during the composite construction class at the fly-in that the
                                    fabric store nylon has sizing chemicals that are added to the fabric during
                                    the manufacturing process. The peel ply that you buy at Wicks (or other
                                    aviation suppliers) will not have these extra sizing chemicals added. I am
                                    not a composite engineer, but after hearing Charlie's comments I would
                                    recommend against using a slightly cheaper fabric store nylon (especially
                                    for areas where you will be making a glass to glass bond). It may cost you
                                    an extra $25 to build your airplane using peel ply rather than the cheaper
                                    fabric store nylon.

                                    Charlie - would the cheapier $1 per yard nylon be ok to use in areas where
                                    we were not going to make a glass to glass bond?

                                    Jeff



                                    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                                    Jeff and Andy,
                                    The above is a good summary of peel ply used on sandwich construction.
                                    Rememember to sand the joints before secondary bonding. Leave the peel ply on
                                    until you are ready to bond then final sand with 150 grit and stop if you hit
                                    fibers. Keep your oily fingers off the sanded joint. Brush off excess sanded
                                    debris with a clean cloth. Scrub the adhesive into the surface to make sure the
                                    surface is wetout. Degreasing the joint after sanding may introduce
                                    contaminates which will harm bond strength.

                                    In non-bonding areas you can use whatever you want to sop up surface resin,
                                    or keep moisture from settling on the layup, or make a smooth surface. A peel
                                    ply finished layup will generally be heavier than a squeegeed non peel ply
                                    one. I have heard that the prototype layups were pretty dry with a lot of
                                    pinholes in the weave crossovers. What ever you use test each on a scrap piece.
                                    If you bond that hot pink $3.99 a yard stuff on and it will not peel off
                                    .......well you got some more finishing to do.

                                    I gotta do some more sanding.

                                    Charlie


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Letempt, Jeffrey CW4
                                    Drew is having problems posting to the list again. You would think if we could send a man to the moon that NASA could set-up a computer system that would
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Dec 7, 2004
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                                      Drew is having problems posting to the list again. You would think if we
                                      could send a man to the moon that NASA could set-up a computer system that
                                      would allow their employees to communicate via email with the outside world.

                                      Jeff

                                      +++++++++++++++++++++

                                      Jeff,

                                      If you wish to, please post that nylon fabric has residual mold release on
                                      the fibers from the manufacturing process and that gets left on your cured
                                      resin surface. (Rip Stop ) Dacron is the preferred material. This is what
                                      they make cheep wind breakers and "Peel Ply" from.

                                      thanks

                                      Drew

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: agwous [mailto:awomack@...]
                                      Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:58 PM
                                      To: Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [Dragonflylist] Re: Sticky surface




                                      I live in southeast Texas which is also very humid. I had this
                                      problem early on. I get around this by using nylon fabric which I
                                      purchased from Walmart. After the layup is done I put the fabric
                                      on. The nylon fabric does not soak up any resin. It does keep the
                                      humidity from reacting with the surface. It peels off real nice and
                                      leaves a nice surface.

                                      Andy



                                      --- In Dragonflylist@yahoogroups.com, SkySailor@k... wrote:
                                      > Thanks for all the advice. I called Aeropoxy today and they
                                      confirmed it
                                      > is Amine blush. Scott there says it shouldn't happen as bad as it
                                      did
                                      > in the past but confirms as most of you know im sure that it does
                                      still
                                      > happen. I had not heard of it though and was rather nervous the
                                      parts
                                      > where gonna have to be remade. Its been very wet here in kansas
                                      city
                                      > the last month and im sure the basement isn't as dry as it should
                                      be.
                                      > Ill dehumidify and raise the temp above 75 down there.
                                      > Thanks again ,
                                      > Dan
                                      >








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