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Beautiful trip!

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  • omabi_us
    Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi an & Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and accommodations. I rode the train from
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 27, 2007
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      Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
      Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
      accommodations. I rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
      much nicer than flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
      enthusiasm. I'll be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
      off to my editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed have
      been bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You can't
      get shed of me that easy :) Omabi
    • kitmengleong
      Hi, Didn t know you were in China. Had a good time I see. How long were you there? Beijing , Xian and Shanghai. My, that s a very large area you ve
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 27, 2007
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        Hi,

        Didn't know you were in China. Had a good time I see. How long were
        you there? Beijing , Xian and Shanghai. My, that's a very large area
        you've covered! Do tell us more.

        Jieming


        --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "omabi_us" <omabi_us@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
        > Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
        > accommodations. I rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
        > much nicer than flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
        > enthusiasm. I'll be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
        > off to my editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed have
        > been bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You can't
        > get shed of me that easy :) Omabi
        >
      • omabi_us
        Only ten days. I went with a tour group. I didn t have the funds to go stay in Xi an for any length of time, but I decided if my publisher wanted me to write
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 28, 2007
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          Only ten days. I went with a tour group. I didn't have the funds to
          go stay in Xi'an for any length of time, but I decided if my publisher
          wanted me to write about the Terracotta Army, I'd better at least see
          it for myself. I had spent months in research, but nothing matches
          being there, looking into the faces of the statues, trying to sketch
          details in my notebook, smelling the earthen pits and listening to the
          pride of the tour guides.

          I have to say the thing that surprised me the most was the horses. I
          was raised on a cattle ranch. When I was two-years-old, my dad tied
          me to the saddle of my pony so I could work cattle with him. Standing
          in the museum, I sensed that the terracotta horses must have been
          carved by artists who knew and liked horses. Their ears point
          forward,alert and their eyes are calm and focused--not wild and
          fearful like the horses in movie battle scenes. The statues depict
          trained war horses, ready for the frey. Their expressions reminded me
          of trained cow ponies, anticipating a job they had done before. Makes
          sense to me. Hollywood horses are thrown into simulated battle scenes
          with no training and they look frightened and crazy. Many books and
          articles I have read commented on the varied faces of the soldiers . .
          .young and inexperienced . . . older and battle-weary . . . calm,
          frightened, preoccupied . . .each an individual. But nothing had
          prepared me for the horses.

          I felt the same connection across centuries with those who created the
          gardens I visited near and in Shanghai. I wandered through little
          garden nooks and knew each hidden vista had been designed by an artist
          who knew and loved the earth as much or more than I do.

          Anyhow . . . I had a fine time! Omabi--Virginia



          --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "kitmengleong" <kmleong@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > Didn't know you were in China. Had a good time I see. How long were
          > you there? Beijing , Xian and Shanghai. My, that's a very large area
          > you've covered! Do tell us more.
          >
          > Jieming
          >
          >
          > --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "omabi_us" <omabi_us@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
          > > Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
          > > accommodations. I rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
          > > much nicer than flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
          > > enthusiasm. I'll be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
          > > off to my editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed have
          > > been bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You can't
          > > get shed of me that easy :) Omabi
          > >
          >
        • kim kheong ho
          Dear Omabi, Nice to hear about your trip to those historical places. I will start my journey tomorrow to Beijing and Xian too . Will exchange our experience
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 28, 2007
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            Dear Omabi,
             
            Nice to hear about your trip to those historical places. I will start my journey tomorrow to Beijing and Xian too . Will exchange our experience later when i come back.
             
             
            Cheers,
            kimkheong

            omabi_us <omabi_us@...> wrote:
            Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
            Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
            accommodations. I rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
            much nicer than flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
            enthusiasm. I'll be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
            off to my editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed have
            been bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You can't
            get shed of me that easy :) Omabi



            Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now.

          • omabi_us
            Have a great time! Omabi ... start my journey tomorrow to Beijing and Xian too . Will exchange our experience later when i come back.
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 29, 2007
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              Have a great time! Omabi

              --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, kim kheong ho <kimkheong@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Dear Omabi,
              >
              > Nice to hear about your trip to those historical places. I will
              start my journey tomorrow to Beijing and Xian too . Will exchange our
              experience later when i come back.
              >
              >
              > Cheers,
              > kimkheong
              >
              > omabi_us <omabi_us@...> wrote:
              > Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
              > Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
              > accommodations. I rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
              > much nicer than flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
              > enthusiasm. I'll be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
              > off to my editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed have
              > been bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You can't
              > get shed of me that easy :) Omabi
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now.
              >
            • Kenneth Blair
              One thing that struck me was the small size of the horses. Ponies really. Longer legged horses were sourced (and valued) from Central Asian breeds in the Han
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 29, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                One thing that struck me was the small size of the horses. Ponies really. Longer legged horses were sourced (and valued) from Central Asian breeds in the Han period but earlier horses were more like the steppe ponies if this is as accurate as all other details. This is one possible reason the chariot may have persisted in China, since +/- 4 of these beasts might pull a chariot but they may not have made as good mounts (speed wise) as the later types used for cavalry warfare.
                Notice how these horses could just about walk under the armpits of the warriors, if they held their limb horizontal.
                The warriors were pretty large in general. If taken literally this probably represents and elite unit, the Qin "dare to die" elite troops which were rewarded for courage.... or their next of kin was rewarded. Troops even in this period could be selected on pure ability and stamina. Given the large size of officers, coupled with Qin promotion based on heads taken in battle, these personal bodygaurd troops uncommonly large sizes may not be symbolic.
                 
                The buried army didn't have a great effect on me personally though. It was more like obligatory. I had seen the stares of the faces a thousand times before I got there. I did see a couple of amusing ones though since they are individuals.
                When I saw signs of looting & burning, it was visible, but hardly a huge fire (as my host pointed out). Many weapons had been removed since the # weapons compared to # of soldiers means many weapons would have been taken and used against the Qin.
                A spot where a later Han tomb had been constructed and had cut into the pit was of interest.
                The most interesting thing was to see the map/model and it refered to 'pit of animals' 'pit of entertainers' 'pit of stone armour' so was the first reference I saw of the less well known more recent finds (which are quite different to the buried armies focus, and include scholars modelled in the same style, all to serve the Emperor).
                 
                When in Xian we were not with any group, but with a local who let us choose where to go mostly, and all the places I saw other white folk had the least appeal to me. I researched my trip before I went and had a 'wish-list'. We were off the tourist trail. Where we stayed there was not even coffee! ...only soy milk & steam bread type breakfasts.
                We however ate with locals in dirty little diners and had a great time as all the local food were explained to us. I didn't care for pig ears too much though.
                We got to visit the countryside and went to the larger undeveloped tombs in the farmland areas, the band of West Han tombs that run about 20 miles and look like hills on the plains outside Xian.
                Han Wudi's tomb, and the new museum on Emperor Jingdi's tomb....(this museum was still being built, but was very good). Yangling was being excavated, and we stumbled across an open area with the remains of a huge ritual building and white pebble pavement and tonnes of ceramic tiles and eaves.
                All only 50cm below the farmland surface.....amazing
                The best thing was following a random mention on a map, and driving to a rural village, to find a "Zhou chariot pit" which even our local friend knew nothing about.
                It ended up being a locked facility in the middle of a little village...not open to the public, but we were allowed a peek at one pit which had 2 chariots and horses skeletons, a human sacrifice, and all the bronze fittings, and reins of sea-shells and glaring bronze faces laying in position.
                That was neat. probably around 3,000 years old from the time of the West Zhou capital there.
                The horses were killed first, then the chariots added to the pits behind them. Makes sense if the horses panicked and broke the chariots.
                Many places needed a little bit of travel to see, like Qianling of Tang with huge statues of animals and gaurdians, and there were some prince & princes tombs that were opened in the 1960's where you could walk under the mound, see the painting on the walls under the tomb and walk down to where the layered coffin was kept (a copy now though). The sloping corridor was stinky...and there was even a side tunnel dug by a tomb robber many centuries ago.
                There were stars still visible painted on the roof of the central tomb chamber. Wow. That was a small tomb of a minor princess too.
                There is so much to see around Xian and the places that can have the best feelings to me were further away from the crowds and least developed for the tourist dollar.
                When we eventually get to Xianjing province in the future I want to travel where I see fit too, but that desert region is very difficult and not one to 'leave the beaten path'. I would probably aim to visit the 'usual' spots any tourist would but also squeeze in a few extras if I can learn of a good spot and then figure how to reach it.
                So much to see in China...Yunnan, the Ordos plateau....I believe the connection to 'old' China is in the countryside and Beijing city & Shanghai city are much further down my wish-list.

                 

                From: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of omabi_us
                Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2007 11:42 a.m.
                To: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [DSL] Re: Beautiful trip!

                Only ten days. I went with a tour group. I didn't have the funds to
                go stay in Xi'an for any length of time, but I decided if my publisher
                wanted me to write about the Terracotta Army, I'd better at least see
                it for myself. I had spent months in research, but nothing matches
                being there, looking into the faces of the statues, trying to sketch
                details in my notebook, smelling the earthen pits and listening to the
                pride of the tour guides.

                I have to say the thing that surprised me the most was the horses. I
                was raised on a cattle ranch. When I was two-years-old, my dad tied
                me to the saddle of my pony so I could work cattle with him. Standing
                in the museum, I sensed that the terracotta horses must have been
                carved by artists who knew and liked horses. Their ears point
                forward,alert and their eyes are calm and focused--not wild and
                fearful like the horses in movie battle scenes. The statues depict
                trained war horses, ready for the frey. Their expressions reminded me
                of trained cow ponies, anticipating a job they had done before. Makes
                sense to me. Hollywood horses are thrown into simulated battle scenes
                with no training and they look frightened and crazy. Many books and
                articles I have read commented on the varied faces of the soldiers . .
                .young and inexperienced . . . older and battle-weary . . . calm,
                frightened, preoccupied . . .each an individual. But nothing had
                prepared me for the horses.

                I felt the same connection across centuries with those who created the
                gardens I visited near and in Shanghai. I wandered through little
                garden nooks and knew each hidden vista had been designed by an artist
                who knew and loved the earth as much or more than I do.

                Anyhow . . . I had a fine time! Omabi--Virginia

                --- In DragonSeedLegacy@ yahoogroups. com, "kitmengleong" <kmleong@... >
                wrote:

                >
                > Hi,
                >
                > Didn't know you were in China. Had a good time I see. How long
                were
                > you there? Beijing , Xian and Shanghai. My, that's a very large
                area
                > you've covered! Do tell us more.
                >
                > Jieming
                >
                >
                > --- In
                href="mailto:DragonSeedLegacy%40yahoogroups.com">DragonSeedLegacy@ yahoogroups. com, "omabi_us" <omabi_us@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi all, I just
                returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
                > > Shanghai.
                Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
                > > accommodations. I
                rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
                > > much nicer than
                flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
                > > enthusiasm. I'll
                be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
                > > off to my
                editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed have
                > > been
                bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You can't
                > >
                get shed of me that easy :) Omabi
                > >
                >

              • omabi_us
                Thanks, Kenneth, for your informative and detailed post. The ponies I saw in a movie on the train from Beijing to Xi an (completely incomprehensible in spite
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 30, 2007
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                  Thanks, Kenneth, for your informative and detailed post.

                  The ponies I saw in a movie on the train from Beijing to Xi'an
                  (completely incomprehensible in spite of English subtitles) were
                  small, with rough,heavy coats and sturdy legs. Incidentally, they
                  seemed to fight their bits just like Hollywood horses being ridden by
                  inexperienced actors. I've read of horse breeding projects in
                  medieval China . . . and of the quest for horses that sweat blood.

                  I congratulate you on your choice to see beyond the tourist spots and
                  glimpse a China most westerners miss. For a grandma such as myself,
                  an inexperienced traveler who has rarely left the California
                  foothills, traveling alone wasn't a viable option. Joining a tour
                  group fit my needs. As we say, "I had a sandwich while you were
                  enjoying a meal." And I relished every bite.

                  Omabi
                  P.S. Can't say I'm sorry about having coffee every morning. I'll pass
                  on the soy milk. :)

                  --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Blair"
                  <Kenneth.Blair@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > One thing that struck me was the small size of the horses. Ponies
                  > really. Longer legged horses were sourced (and valued) from Central
                  > Asian breeds in the Han period but earlier horses were more like the
                  > steppe ponies if this is as accurate as all other details. This is one
                  > possible reason the chariot may have persisted in China, since +/- 4 of
                  > these beasts might pull a chariot but they may not have made as good
                  > mounts (speed wise) as the later types used for cavalry warfare.
                  > Notice how these horses could just about walk under the armpits of the
                  > warriors, if they held their limb horizontal.
                  > The warriors were pretty large in general. If taken literally this
                  > probably represents and elite unit, the Qin "dare to die" elite troops
                  > which were rewarded for courage.... or their next of kin was rewarded.
                  > Troops even in this period could be selected on pure ability and
                  > stamina. Given the large size of officers, coupled with Qin promotion
                  > based on heads taken in battle, these personal bodygaurd troops
                  > uncommonly large sizes may not be symbolic.
                  >
                  > The buried army didn't have a great effect on me personally though. It
                  > was more like obligatory. I had seen the stares of the faces a thousand
                  > times before I got there. I did see a couple of amusing ones though
                  > since they are individuals.
                  > When I saw signs of looting & burning, it was visible, but hardly a huge
                  > fire (as my host pointed out). Many weapons had been removed since the #
                  > weapons compared to # of soldiers means many weapons would have been
                  > taken and used against the Qin.
                  > A spot where a later Han tomb had been constructed and had cut into the
                  > pit was of interest.
                  > The most interesting thing was to see the map/model and it refered to
                  > 'pit of animals' 'pit of entertainers' 'pit of stone armour' so was the
                  > first reference I saw of the less well known more recent finds (which
                  > are quite different to the buried armies focus, and include scholars
                  > modelled in the same style, all to serve the Emperor).
                  >
                  > When in Xian we were not with any group, but with a local who let us
                  > choose where to go mostly, and all the places I saw other white folk had
                  > the least appeal to me. I researched my trip before I went and had a
                  > 'wish-list'. We were off the tourist trail. Where we stayed there was
                  > not even coffee! ...only soy milk & steam bread type breakfasts.
                  > We however ate with locals in dirty little diners and had a great time
                  > as all the local food were explained to us. I didn't care for pig ears
                  > too much though.
                  > We got to visit the countryside and went to the larger undeveloped tombs
                  > in the farmland areas, the band of West Han tombs that run about 20
                  > miles and look like hills on the plains outside Xian.
                  > Han Wudi's tomb, and the new museum on Emperor Jingdi's tomb....(this
                  > museum was still being built, but was very good). Yangling was being
                  > excavated, and we stumbled across an open area with the remains of a
                  > huge ritual building and white pebble pavement and tonnes of ceramic
                  > tiles and eaves.
                  > All only 50cm below the farmland surface.....amazing
                  > The best thing was following a random mention on a map, and driving to a
                  > rural village, to find a "Zhou chariot pit" which even our local friend
                  > knew nothing about.
                  > It ended up being a locked facility in the middle of a little
                  > village...not open to the public, but we were allowed a peek at one pit
                  > which had 2 chariots and horses skeletons, a human sacrifice, and all
                  > the bronze fittings, and reins of sea-shells and glaring bronze faces
                  > laying in position.
                  > That was neat. probably around 3,000 years old from the time of the West
                  > Zhou capital there.
                  > The horses were killed first, then the chariots added to the pits behind
                  > them. Makes sense if the horses panicked and broke the chariots.
                  > Many places needed a little bit of travel to see, like Qianling of Tang
                  > with huge statues of animals and gaurdians, and there were some prince &
                  > princes tombs that were opened in the 1960's where you could walk under
                  > the mound, see the painting on the walls under the tomb and walk down to
                  > where the layered coffin was kept (a copy now though). The sloping
                  > corridor was stinky...and there was even a side tunnel dug by a tomb
                  > robber many centuries ago.
                  > There were stars still visible painted on the roof of the central tomb
                  > chamber. Wow. That was a small tomb of a minor princess too.
                  > There is so much to see around Xian and the places that can have the
                  > best feelings to me were further away from the crowds and least
                  > developed for the tourist dollar.
                  > When we eventually get to Xianjing province in the future I want to
                  > travel where I see fit too, but that desert region is very difficult and
                  > not one to 'leave the beaten path'. I would probably aim to visit the
                  > 'usual' spots any tourist would but also squeeze in a few extras if I
                  > can learn of a good spot and then figure how to reach it.
                  > So much to see in China...Yunnan, the Ordos plateau....I believe the
                  > connection to 'old' China is in the countryside and Beijing city &
                  > Shanghai city are much further down my wish-list.
                  >
                  >
                  > ________________________________
                  >
                  > From: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of omabi_us
                  > Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2007 11:42 a.m.
                  > To: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [DSL] Re: Beautiful trip!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Only ten days. I went with a tour group. I didn't have the funds to
                  > go stay in Xi'an for any length of time, but I decided if my publisher
                  > wanted me to write about the Terracotta Army, I'd better at least see
                  > it for myself. I had spent months in research, but nothing matches
                  > being there, looking into the faces of the statues, trying to sketch
                  > details in my notebook, smelling the earthen pits and listening to the
                  > pride of the tour guides.
                  >
                  > I have to say the thing that surprised me the most was the horses. I
                  > was raised on a cattle ranch. When I was two-years-old, my dad tied
                  > me to the saddle of my pony so I could work cattle with him. Standing
                  > in the museum, I sensed that the terracotta horses must have been
                  > carved by artists who knew and liked horses. Their ears point
                  > forward,alert and their eyes are calm and focused--not wild and
                  > fearful like the horses in movie battle scenes. The statues depict
                  > trained war horses, ready for the frey. Their expressions reminded me
                  > of trained cow ponies, anticipating a job they had done before. Makes
                  > sense to me. Hollywood horses are thrown into simulated battle scenes
                  > with no training and they look frightened and crazy. Many books and
                  > articles I have read commented on the varied faces of the soldiers . .
                  > .young and inexperienced . . . older and battle-weary . . . calm,
                  > frightened, preoccupied . . .each an individual. But nothing had
                  > prepared me for the horses.
                  >
                  > I felt the same connection across centuries with those who created the
                  > gardens I visited near and in Shanghai. I wandered through little
                  > garden nooks and knew each hidden vista had been designed by an artist
                  > who knew and loved the earth as much or more than I do.
                  >
                  > Anyhow . . . I had a fine time! Omabi--Virginia
                  >
                  > --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:DragonSeedLegacy%40yahoogroups.com> , "kitmengleong"
                  > <kmleong@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi,
                  > >
                  > > Didn't know you were in China. Had a good time I see. How long were
                  > > you there? Beijing , Xian and Shanghai. My, that's a very large area
                  > > you've covered! Do tell us more.
                  > >
                  > > Jieming
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:DragonSeedLegacy%40yahoogroups.com> , "omabi_us" <omabi_us@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
                  > > > Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
                  > > > accommodations. I rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
                  > > > much nicer than flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
                  > > > enthusiasm. I'll be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
                  > > > off to my editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed
                  > have
                  > > > been bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You
                  > can't
                  > > > get shed of me that easy :) Omabi
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • dale sailors
                  Ni Hao! In the three kingdoms era there were a few big horses available at least. Cao Cao presented Red Hare to several Generals including Kwan Ti who was a
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 30, 2007
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                    Ni Hao!
                    In the 'three kingdoms" era there were a few big horses available at least. Cao Cao presented Red Hare to several Generals including Kwan Ti who was a very large man armed with a very heavy weapon, even by today's standards.
                    Ciao!
                    Dale
                     
                  • Kenneth Blair
                    Before the 3 Kingdoms period, during the reign of Han Wudi, there were already Imperial programs to enlarge # horse stocks and provide army mounts. There is an
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 2, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Before the 3 Kingdoms period, during the reign of Han Wudi, there were
                      already Imperial programs to enlarge # horse stocks and provide army
                      mounts. There is an episode sometimes called 'The War of Heavenly
                      Horses' where prized-superior horses were refused the Han by the small
                      kingdom of Ferghana and a large campaign resulted to make them submit
                      and supply the much admired central-Asian mounts.
                      These were the blood sweating horses Omabi mentioned. The very best were
                      used for parade, but thousands were bought back and via trade the
                      central Asian Wusun & Ferghana horses were much sought after.
                      A mix of steppe ponies and the central asian type would have made
                      excellent mounts with both stature and stamina.
                      This breeding for the military was so important that killing any common
                      horse was made a crime, and for a period even eating horsemeat was
                      banned.
                      This has to do with the threat of the Xiongnu, steppes nomads, whom the
                      West Han required huge numbers of horses for military action against
                      this very serious 'barbarian' threat.
                      The Xiongnu were a serious matter at the time, hence Sima Qian devoting
                      so much writing on them. It was more of a concern than earlier
                      barbarians who were just there to be used as the Chinese saw fit, as
                      auxillaries, or conquest, but seldom a threat of themselves.
                      The Xiongnu are sometimes called proto-Mongols, and for the threat they
                      represented it is at least accurate in this way.
                      The 'Hu' were excellent horsemen and accurate archers in the saddle.

                      re; Omabi,
                      I wouldn't go off the track either except my wife speaks Mandarin and we
                      had a mutual friend who was local...otherwise it would have all been
                      impossible. Having a local arrange the accomodation and even haggle can
                      keep some prices much lower too.



                      Regards,

                      Kenneth Blair
                      Network Records
                      Data Integrity


                      T 07 834 5466 (extn 75466)
                      E kenneth.blair@...
                      W www.telecom.co.nz

                      Level 3, Caro Street Exchange, Caro Street
                      Hamilton

                      "We can't always fix it, but we can tell you exactly how broken it is."

                      ________________________________

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                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dale sailors
                      Sent: Saturday, 1 December 2007 6:24 p.m.
                      To: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [DSL] Re: Beautiful trip!

                      Ni Hao!
                      In the 'three kingdoms" era there were a few big horses available at
                      least. Cao Cao presented Red Hare to several Generals including Kwan Ti
                      who was a very large man armed with a very heavy weapon, even by today's
                      standards.
                      Ciao!
                      Dale
                    • omabi_us
                      Hi Kimkheong, So, how was your trip? Also, Holiday blessings to everyone, Omabi ... start my journey tomorrow to Beijing and Xian too . Will exchange our
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 29, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Kimkheong, So, how was your trip?
                        Also, Holiday blessings to everyone, Omabi




                        --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, kim kheong ho <kimkheong@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Omabi,
                        >
                        > Nice to hear about your trip to those historical places. I will
                        start my journey tomorrow to Beijing and Xian too . Will exchange our
                        experience later when i come back.
                        >
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        > kimkheong
                        >
                        > omabi_us <omabi_us@...> wrote:
                        > Hi all, I just returned from a brief trip to Beijing, Xi'an &
                        > Shanghai. Shirt-sleeve warm weather, excellent food and
                        > accommodations. I rode the train from Beijing to Xi'an which was so
                        > much nicer than flying. I've returned to my writing with renewed
                        > enthusiasm. I'll be sending the manuscript about the Terracotta Army
                        > off to my editor in a couple of days. My postings to Dragon Seed have
                        > been bouncing for more than a month, but now that's solved. You can't
                        > get shed of me that easy :) Omabi
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---------------------------------
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