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[DSL] Re: Left-Wing Anti-Miscegenism

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  • omabi_us
    To have a guest speaker like you mention stand up and address a crowd that he/she obviously considers fits the criteria he/she outlined shows a predjudice and
    Message 1 of 9 , May 31 3:35 PM
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      To have a guest speaker like you mention stand up and address a
      crowd that he/she obviously considers fits the criteria he/she
      outlined shows a predjudice and arrogance that shouldn't be expressed
      in polite society, unless it is whitey on the recieving end.
      > I am sure they still got a round of applause from all the
      colonialists & do-gooders in the audience when he finshed.
      > The Emperors New Clothes. Clap-clap-clap. Bravo.

      Now that you mention it, many of the sessions I sat through at that
      conference brought to mind the Emperior's New Clothes at the time--
      but to risk argument is to be stereotyped as politically incorrect.

      Clap-clap-clap. Bravo.

      > It is like Political Correctness enshrines the right to pick at
      white societies morals and conduct but it doesn't swing the other way.

      Indeed. I have considered mentioning to Ty, the fact that political
      correctness doesn't extend to Asians may well mean they are lumped
      with dominate societies and thereby not protected by white-bread
      liberal sensitivities.
      Omabi


      --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Blair"
      <Kenneth.Blair@...> wrote:
      >
      > That's terrible.
      > There are comparible examples in my country too. I have seen
      minority students stand up in a Uni class and mention genocide or
      once even addressing a Jewish geust speaker when I was studying, give
      some spiel about a white mans 'holocaust' or such, and nobody would
      dare actually tell them they are talking rubbish. It is like the
      Emperor and his New Clothes, as another moderate minority student
      even told me. Most people can see it is a load of nonsense but it is
      just easier to applaud and feign acceptance.
      > The fact they are standing up and spontaneously lecturing whitey
      kind of suggests the holocaust was less than successful and the more
      I learnt about history outside of the institution it turns out such
      grievances are more manufactured for present gain than actually real.
      (at least in New Zealand I would easily know more about the details
      than 95% of the population)
      > Many people can see that stereotypes and comments about Europeans &
      their culture are just as unpleasant as any about other races but
      nobody is going to tell the angry minority person on the soap box.
      Refering to modern Europeans as colonists is just slap on the face
      since we can find something distastful in any soccieties previous
      conduct, and I might as well call these people 'cannibals'
      or 'savages' in return and it is equally as true.
      > It is like Political Correctness enshrines the right to pick at
      white societies morals and conduct but it doesn't swing the other way.
      > This making up for real and supposed past injuries is what is
      called the 'white mans burden' and I don't have any time for it. If
      you try and do something about it then I suppose it makes you a
      bumbling do-gooder.
      > Some of the things my great grandparents generation may have done
      are unfair in the light of modern day (isn't that the case for
      everyone?) but it doesn't mean I have time for pontificating by some
      bitter creature who chooses to take on this manufactured sense of
      grievance.
      > To have a geust speaker like you mention stand up and address a
      crowd that he/she obviously considers fits the criteria he/she
      outlined shows a predjudice and arrogance that shouldn't be expressed
      in polite society, unless it is whitey on the recieving end.
      > I am sure they still got a round of applause from all the
      colonialists & do-gooders in the audience when he finshed.
      > The Emperors New Clothes. Clap-clap-clap. Bravo.
      > That's the white mans burden.....a myth that such attitudes are
      deserved and should be endured by modern people.
      >
      >
      > As for peoples perceptions about mixed races couples...I couldn't
      care less. I am aware some people might not approve but they are very
      rare. Most people take me & my wife for who we are and for anyone to
      suggest there is some inherent inequality or patronising element to
      our marriage would be unwise to be expressed to my face.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of omabi_us
      > Sent: Thursday, 1 June 2006 8:02 a.m.
      > To: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [DSL] Re: Left-Wing Anti-Miscegenism
      >
      > Monroy's article is fascinating and my comments concern only a
      small
      > part. She states: "Some people . . . might argue that a preference
      > for a partner of a particular race or ethnic group should be
      > considered an individual and not a political matter. On other
      > hand . . . intermarriage cannot simply be equated to a choice of a
      > partner with a specific height or hair colour. Pathologizing such
      > unions, however, does not seem to be the right path either."
      >
      > Talk about amblivance! Do you suppose on a good day she might
      > consider the possibly that individuals are so diverse and unique
      that
      > one-size-fits-all generalizations about their motives are
      impossible?
      >
      > " . . . these stereotypes are not only unflattering but
      > often untrue or unconfirmable."
      >
      > I'll drink to that! Summer before last I was invited to present a
      > paper at an international children's literature society meeting.
      > Before giving my paper I sat in on a session in which the speaker
      > stated that westerners who write about other cultures are either
      > colonialists or do-gooders. As a western children's author with
      six
      > picture books set in medieval China, I realize that what I'm doing
      > might be considered literary miscegenism. Given the choice between
      > being labeled an opportunistic colonialist or a bumbling do-gooder,
      I
      > agree with Monroy about stereotypes being unflattering, untrue and
      > uncomfirmable. Omabi
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "Ty" <tigerboycanada@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > http://www.webcom.com/intvoice/emily2.html
      > > http://www.webcom.com/intvoice/ed_arch.html
      > >
      > > Left-Wing Anti-Miscegenism
      > > By Emily Monroy
      > >
      > > E. Monroy According to a recent poll, 87% of Canadians approve of
      > > marriage between Whites and minorities. This number is more than
      20%
      > > above the figure reported by Anglophone respondents to a survey
      > > conducted nearly a decade earlier. Respondents belonging to groups
      > > more likely to espouse liberal values - those under thirty, for
      > > instance - express greater acceptance of miscegenation (race
      mixing)
      > > than do those usually seen as more old-fashioned, such as older
      > > people. The findings of these polls seem to confirm the belief
      that
      > > socially progressive individuals are more accepting of interracial
      > > relationships whereas conservatives are more opposed. This general
      > > rule does not always hold true, however, at either a personal or
      > > social level. Societies far more conservative than modern-day
      Canada
      > > have not only condoned but promoted miscegenation: for example,
      when
      > > it ruled Indonesia the Netherlands encouraged marriage between
      Dutch
      > > men and native women in the hope of ensuring the conquered
      people's
      > > loyalty to the colonizer. Another exception to the above-mentioned
      > > rule lies in the fact that today some of the most vocal critics of
      > > interracial unions do not identify with the right wing but the
      left.
      > >
      > > It is important to distinguish left-wing anti-miscegenists* from
      > their
      > > old-guard counterparts such as the White supremacists**. The
      former
      > > include members of all races as well as people generally
      condemned
      > in
      > > White right-wing circles, such as gays and lesbians and
      participants
      > > in leftist movements. While traditional groups decry
      intermarriage
      > on
      > > the grounds that it contaminates the White gene pool, left-wing
      > > anti-miscegenists base their disapproval on the purported
      > > psychological damage to the individuals involved and the threat to
      > > minority communities' unity. Few progressive critics of
      > miscegenation
      > > advocate outlawing the practice or ostracizing or using violence
      > > against interracial couples and families. Finally, unlike those
      on
      > the
      > > right, most left-wing anti-miscegenists criticize but do not
      > entirely
      > > oppose interracial unions. Whereas progressive criticism of
      > > intermarriage will probably not affect people's legal freedom to
      > > engage in mixed-race relations, it may discourage them from
      entering
      > > into such unions or from having biracial children.
      > >
      > > A key tenet of left-wing anti-miscegenism is the belief that
      > relations
      > > between Whites and non-Whites are inherently problematic on
      account
      > of
      > > the two groups' unequal social positions. According to this
      > > philosophy, a relationship between a White and a person of colour
      > can
      > > never be made on a truly equal footing because Whites generally
      > > possess more power in Western society. As well, such a
      relationship
      > > might be negatively affected by the fact that the White partner
      may,
      > > even unconsciously, hold racist attitudes and that he or she can
      > never
      > > empathize with the discrimination his or her mate faces. These
      > tenets
      > > have been expressed with regard to both heterosexual and
      homosexual
      > > unions. For example, in the feminist anthology To Be Real, Anna
      > > Bondoc, a Filipina involved with a Jewish man, reports being asked
      > > "how could [she] build a lifelong relationship with someone who
      > could
      > > never share this pain [of racism]". Gil Mangaoang, a gay Filipino
      > man,
      > > voices a similar perspective in Asian American Sexualities: The
      Gay
      > > and Lesbian Experience, saying that "couples in a mixed white and
      > > non-white relationship are susceptible to cultural prejudices and
      > > racist attitudes".
      > >
      > > By contrast, left-wing anti-miscegenists take a more benign view
      of
      > > relationships between members of two different minority groups.
      > > Leaders of the Asian-American movement, for instance, generally
      > > criticized Asian-White relations but tolerated those between
      Asians
      > > and other non-Whites. People of colour are deemed more compatible
      > with
      > > other minorities than with Whites. Kamal Al-Solaylee, a gay Arab
      > > Canadian, calls non-Arab men of colour his "soul mates" in the
      > Toronto
      > > gay newspaper Xtra!. Interracial relationships between minorities
      > are
      > > supposedly not complicated by the racism that may plague those
      > > involving Whites and people of colour. As Mangaoang says, "when
      two
      > > minorities struggle to forge a relationship, the obstacle of race
      > does
      > > not become an issue". Finally, such unions have value above the
      > > satisfaction of the two people involved in that they promote
      > > solidarity between their respective ethnic groups. Joël B. Tan,
      > > another gay Filipino featured in Asian American Sexualities,
      > suggests
      > > that "people of colour loving one another is a political act".
      > >
      > > The idea that White-minority relationships are problematic
      because
      > of
      > > the two partners' unequal social positions raises a number of
      > > questions. While in our society Whites on average possess more
      > social,
      > > economic, and political power than people of colour, this may not
      be
      > > the case for every couple. In a relationship between a White high
      > > school dropout working as a health care aide and a Black
      physician,
      > it
      > > would be difficult to conclude that the former has more power
      simply
      > > because he or she is White. This idea may not hold true even at
      the
      > > group level. For example, immigrants to Canada from Hong Kong
      > usually
      > > enjoy higher incomes and educational levels than those from
      > Portugal.
      > > Thus in a relationship between a Chinese Canadian from Hong Kong
      > and a
      > > Portuguese Canadian the former partner could be expected in most
      > cases
      > > to hold more social and economic power.
      > >
      > > The corresponding notion that relationships between members of
      > > different non-White races will go more smoothly than ones
      involving
      > > Whites and individuals of colour also leaves some unanswered
      > > questions. Al-Solaylee, in referring to men from places as
      diverse
      > as
      > > Taiwan and Trinidad as his soul mates, depicts all peoples of
      colour
      > > as alike, although they may differ greatly in terms of race,
      > culture,
      > > religion, and other things. For example, one might ask what a
      Moslem
      > > from Senegal, Africa and a Korean Buddhist have in common besides
      > the
      > > fact of not tracing their ancestry to Europe. Some minority
      > > communities may even resemble White ethnic groups more than they
      do
      > > other peoples of colour. A Filipino or Lebanese Catholic may share
      > > more cultural traits with an Italian than with a Hindu Sri Lankan.
      > > These facts are not raised, though, by left-wing anti-
      miscegenists.
      > >
      > > Just as not all peoples of colour are alike, neither have they
      > always
      > > banded together, even in the face of White racism. Though on
      > occasion
      > > they have - for instance, in the Southern United States Blacks and
      > > Native Americans frequently formed alliances against Whites - at
      > other
      > > times minority communities have disliked each other even more than
      > > they have Whites. This fact is apparent in the attitudes of
      certain
      > > minorities towards intermarriage. For example, anecdotal evidence
      > > suggests most East Asian parents would prefer their children to
      > marry
      > > Whites than Blacks, Latinos or even some Asian groups such as
      > > Filipinos. Hence the openness of minorities to relationships with
      > > other groups of colour as opposed to with Whites may be limited to
      > > those non-Whites who identify strongly with the left wing.
      > >
      > > Progressive anti-miscegenists believe that relationships with
      Whites
      > > threaten the survival and unity of minority groups. When a person
      of
      > > colour becomes involved with a White, the former is likely to be
      > lost
      > > to his or her group. According to one Chicana commentator, the
      > Chicano
      > > community loses members through intermarriage with Anglos (Whites)
      > > because the children of such unions are usually raised as members
      of
      > > the latter group. Margaret Woo, a leader in the Asian-American
      > > movement, states that marriage with Whites threatens Asian-
      American
      > > unity. In an argument that recalls somewhat the White
      supremacists'
      > > fears about the contamination of the Aryan gene pool, she
      stipulates
      > > that Eurasians (people of mixed Asian and European descent) cannot
      > > take part in the Asian-American movement because they are not
      fully
      > > Asian. Therefore miscegenation undermines minorities as
      communities.
      > >
      > > Left-wing critics of miscegenation have developed a psychological
      > > profile of individuals involved in interracial relationships. A
      > common
      > > view of minorities who enter into such unions is that they are
      > > uncomfortable with their heritage and seek to escape or deny it by
      > > marrying or dating a White. The self-hatred paradigm is expressed
      by
      > > Canadian writer Lorraine Mention, who states in the anthology
      > > Miscegenation Blues: Voices of Mixed Race Women that Blacks
      involved
      > > with Whites are usually "denying the reflection in the mirror". In
      > > choosing a partner of European descent, heterosexual men of
      colour
      > are
      > > furthermore said to be going after an ideal of White beauty. David
      > > Mura, a Japanese-American poet married to a woman of mixed Jewish
      > and
      > > Anglo-Saxon descent, believes his choice of wife was influenced by
      > > this ideal, while Camille Hernandez-Ramdwar, another contributor
      to
      > > Miscegenation Blues, claims her Black father "coveted a White
      woman
      > > [her mother]". Miscegenous minority women on the other hand are
      > > believed to seek White men not necessarily for their looks but
      their
      > > social status. Bondoc, for example, was teased by left-wing
      friends
      > > about wanting to "marry up". It is occasionally stated that these
      > > women lose their own racial identity. Asian-American activist
      Karin
      > > Aguilar-San Juan complains that some Asian women "splay
      themselves
      > at
      > > the feet of white men... obliterating their own identities in the
      > > process".
      > >
      > > Whites who intermarry are typically not seen in a good light
      either,
      > > though they figure less as victims than as victimizers in the
      > > left-wing anti-miscegenist paradigm. At best, they are portrayed
      as
      > > well-meaning people who marry interracially out of the naive
      belief
      > > that by doing so they are striking a blow against racism. However,
      > > their motives are at times said to be more sinister. A
      > > sometimes-expressed view is that Whites look for partners of
      colour
      > in
      > > order to fulfill sexual fantasies. Mention and Hernandez-Ramdwar
      > argue
      > > just that, respectively, that Whites involved with Blacks or other
      > > people of colour are following "weird sexual fantasies" and
      looking
      > > for an "exotic experience". White gays and lesbians are not exempt
      > > from similar criticism. Al-Solaylee describes a White male
      > > acquaintance of his who seemed fixated solely on Chinese men as
      > lovers
      > > as "crying out for some serious psychoanalytic intervention". At
      > > worst, Whites in interracial relationships are deliberately
      seeking
      > a
      > > minority partner in order to dominate or even abuse him or her in
      a
      > > racist way. This accusation is often made of White men who date or
      > > marry Asian women, allegedly for the latter's "submissiveness".
      One
      > > letter writer to the Toronto tabloid the Sun goes even further and
      > > notes that "some of the most racist people I know are indeed
      married
      > > to visible minorities" and that they do so in order to "enhance
      > their
      > > feeling of superiority" over their partner.
      > >
      > > These unflattering portraits in some ways echo those of old-style
      > > anti-miscegenists as well as those of popular culture. For
      example,
      > > Aguilar-San Juan's description of Asian woman "splaying
      themselves
      > at
      > > the feet of white men" ironically sounds much like the commonly
      held
      > > stereotype of the Oriental geisha, a stereotype that Asian-
      American
      > > activists protested vigorously when it appeared in mainstream
      works
      > > like the play Miss Saigon. Lorraine Mention's picture of Whites
      who
      > > run after Blacks in order to fulfill their "weird sexual
      fantasies"
      > > similarly has much in common with the White supremacists'
      > denunciation
      > > of White women who consort with men of colour (particularly
      Blacks)
      > as
      > > sexually immoral. To a lesser extent, even the depiction of men of
      > > colour involved with White women as men seeking an ideal of White
      > > beauty recalls the traditional stereotype of the male "Other" - a
      > > position held at various times by Black, Filipino, and even
      Jewish
      > men
      > > - who threatens the sexual purity of White (or White Christian)
      > women.
      > > For instance, Hernandez-Ramdwar's description of her
      > father "coveting
      > > a White woman" seems to imply that Black men are eager to couple
      > with
      > > White women at any cost.
      > >
      > > Many of these stereotypes do not correspond with reality. For
      > example,
      > > White men who marry Asian women are not necessarily the GI Joes
      > > portrayed in some progressive literature. A study in Hawaii showed
      > > that White husbands of Asians were actually less domineering than
      > > those of White women. The same report found Asian women with White
      > > husbands were no more submissive than their sisters who married
      > within
      > > their race, a result that calls into question Aguilar-San Juan's
      > > characterization of the former group of women as "splaying
      > themselves
      > > at feet of white men". Similarly, it is hard to confirm Aguilar-
      San
      > > Juan's claim that these women lose their identity, as individuals
      > who
      > > marry outside their ethnic group, race or religion may be less
      > > attached to their culture of origin in the first place than those
      > who
      > > marry within it. Hence these stereotypes are not only
      unflattering
      > but
      > > often untrue or unconfirmable.
      > >
      > > Left-wing anti-miscegenists, like their right-wing counterparts,
      > often
      > > promote the belief that mixed-race children are prone to
      confusion
      > and
      > > psychological disturbance because they are "caught between two
      > worlds
      > > yet part of neither". Bondoc was warned by leftist friends that
      her
      > > future children (by her White boyfriend) would have a "screwed-up
      > > identity". One contributor to Miscegenation Blues states she has
      > > difficulty blessing interracial unions because of her concern for
      > the
      > > children. Even Challenging Conceptions, a book on lesbian
      > motherhood -
      > > which might be expected to be more socially advanced than usual -
      > > questions whether lesbians should seek sperm donors of other
      races
      > and
      > > cites the example of "Pat", a mixed-race woman who claims to have
      > > suffered as a child on account of her origins. While left-wing
      > > anti-miscegenists might appear to be very avant-garde in their
      > social
      > > views, their statements on the effects of miscegenation on
      children
      > > are frequently very much in tune with those of old-style
      opponents
      > of
      > > intermarriage.
      > >
      > > Like the stereotypes of individuals involved in interracial
      > > relationships, the "tragic mulatto [or Eurasian or mestizo or
      other
      > > combination]" is more a creature of fiction than of fact.
      > While "Pat"
      > > may make a compelling individual case against miscegenation,
      there
      > is
      > > no evidence that she represents all mixed-race people. Studies
      > > comparing biracial individuals with their monoracial peers have
      > > generally found that the two groups are equally well adjusted, and
      > > most of the remainder have actually discovered better
      psychological
      > > health on the part of the former group. It is unlikely, though,
      that
      > > left-wing anti-miscegenists will look at this research and "see
      the
      > > light", as most people are loath to acknowledge studies that
      > > contradict their personal beliefs. As well, the idea - no matter
      how
      > > scientifically dubious - that the offspring of interracial
      > > relationships are disadvantaged provides a powerful argument
      against
      > > such unions, so anti-miscegenists have a reason not to discard it.
      > >
      > > Some people - particularly Whites involved with minorities - might
      > > argue that a preference for a partner of a particular race or
      ethnic
      > > group should be considered an individual and not a political
      matter.
      > > On other hand, given the reality that in our society there are
      > > differences in power and prestige between racial and ethnic
      groups,
      > > intermarriage cannot simply be equated to a choice of a partner
      > with a
      > > specific height or hair colour. Pathologizing such unions,
      however,
      > > does not seem to be the right path either. Some interracial
      > alliances
      > > can be very successful, even if race will always be an issue,
      while
      > > others may fail, whether because of obstacles related to
      ethnicity
      > or
      > > other factors. Perhaps the best approach is to view miscegenation
      as
      > > neither a panacea to racial strife nor a death knell for minority
      > > communities but as a type of relationship that may pose special
      > > challenges and may or may not work for different individuals.
      > >
      > > * The term "anti-miscegenist" is taken from the book Racially
      Mixed
      > > People in America, edited by Maria Root. **It should be noted that
      > > conservative opposition to miscegenation is not limited to White
      > > society. For example, some Asian communities, such as the
      Japanese,
      > > were traditionally hostile to marriage with outsiders. However,
      > these
      > > groups' anti-miscegenism will not be discussed in the present
      > article
      > > because in Western society they have not attempted to impose their
      > > views outside their own communities.
      > > Emily Monroy lives in Toronto, Ontario, Canada
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > DragonSeedLegacy
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    • Ty
      ... It just feels peculiar as a person vulnerable in both the conservative circle and the liberal circle, and when left-right devide is irrelevant, simply
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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        > Indeed. I have considered mentioning to Ty, the fact that political
        > correctness doesn't extend to Asians may well mean they are lumped
        > with dominate societies and thereby not protected by white-bread
        > liberal sensitivities.
        > Omabi


        It just feels peculiar as a person vulnerable in both the conservative
        circle and the liberal circle, and when left-right devide is
        irrelevant, simply vulnerable in a section of North America where
        Asianness does not get the respect it deserves.

        At University I used to know a White liberal girl(probably "Green",
        left-ish are the more accurate stereotypes) who spent most of her time
        volunteering with Oxfam, Fairtrade and chaperoning Chinese, African
        and Southeast Asian international students. She tried a couple time to
        "probe the Chinese out of me" such as asking whether my lastname was
        Chan. But besides that she just avoided talking to me. Perhaps I don't
        fit her everyday perception of the "Chinese student" as accented,
        timid and huddling together, surrounded by bubbles. So, me speaking
        English without accent, not socializing with Chinese exchanged
        students might be upsetting this perception?

        What also gets on my nerves is the liberals' emphasis on "cultural
        sensitivity"---trying to do everything according to what they perceive
        to be "appropriate" to the ethnic person they interact with.

        On the flip side, conservatives in my area are too eager to contradict
        whatever they consider "political correctness". There isn't any
        resemblance of courtesy and refineness in their behavior. Not that
        they are particularly overt in their prejudice against certain groups.
        In fact they act fairly "color-blind" besides a fondness for racist
        jokes. But their preferrence for macho-ness and eschewing anything
        sophisticated just makes them such ignorant jerks to deal with. These
        people are by far the majority. I'm afraid a culture like this will
        suffer from a closeminded monotoneity and an unnecessary drive of
        assimilation toward manners and outlooks that are mediocre and provincial.

        But overall, I have more problems with liberals than with conservatives.
      • Ty
        ... I think it s usually the more radical feminists or ethnic pryde people that tend to lump Asians together with White Middle America. Provincial
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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          > Indeed. I have considered mentioning to Ty, the fact that political
          > correctness doesn't extend to Asians may well mean they are lumped
          > with dominate societies and thereby not protected by white-bread
          > liberal sensitivities.
          > Omabi


          I think it's usually the more radical feminists or ethnic pryde people
          that tend to lump Asians together with White Middle America.

          Provincial conservatives would never think of identifying with Asians,
          except for giving them roles like Kahn in King of the Hill.
        • Kenneth Blair
          If that nieve hippy type (the Greenie ) doesn t treat you like an accented and timid exchange student then why is that surprising since you have perfect
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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            If that nieve hippy type (the 'Greenie') doesn't treat you like an
            accented and timid exchange student then why is that surprising since
            you have perfect English and despite your complaint you seem quite able
            to cope? It seems unlikely anything she could do wouldn't upset you on
            some level, even treating you as a normal human being.
            By the sound of it you resent she didn't find you fascinating since her
            worst offense was only briefly discussing what your surname was.
            Did you really want her to treat you the same as those that need her
            help (a new foreign student) or is there simply no pleasing you?
            Nobody is forced to watch King of the Hill if it causes emotional pain
            or offence.
            I hear you say you have perfect English, so you surely can recognise
            King of the Hill and other more 'adult' cartoons as a parody.
            Considering in such cartoons the current object of parody (could be a
            member of ANY group) might often be smarter than the in-bred white man
            (i.e trailer trash, slack jawed yokels, ignorant conservatives etc.) and
            come out better in the end would again suggest what you choose to find
            offense in the pretty harmless end of the spectrum. You needn't assume
            you are the only object of a comedy.
            It seems there is no way anyone might please you whether they treat you
            differently or treat you indifferently or treat you the same or treat
            you special.
            So, is 'lumping you together' or 'treating you differently' or
            attempting to act "appropriate" to the ethnic person more evil?
            You seem to resent all. Your only solution offered so far is that
            society must recognise and praise Asians more.
            I think credit should be given where credit is deserved but the world
            doesn't owe anyone anything. When Asians excell in any field, or the
            colour of the culture is revealed there is no shortage of collective or
            individual recognition & respect. Granted, this doesn't happen 24-7 but
            that would then just be a hollow PC policy and quite patronising I feel.
            .....If you really want your own holiday then petition the government.

            You can't always change the world but you can learn how to cope.
            As I said, I don't have time for the white mans burden & I don't have
            time for the perceptions of others over mixed race couples. If I cared
            what certain people thought I could be upset constantly.
            Some people will always be ignorant and unlikely to change.
            Hang out with your friends, be nice to your mum & change the TV channel.

            Something like 'Khan' in King of the Hill should be like water off a
            ducks back.


            -----Original Message-----
            From: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ty
            Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 8:35 a.m.
            To: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [DSL] Re: Left-Wing Anti-Miscegenism

            > Indeed. I have considered mentioning to Ty, the fact that political
            > correctness doesn't extend to Asians may well mean they are lumped
            > with dominate societies and thereby not protected by white-bread
            > liberal sensitivities.
            > Omabi


            It just feels peculiar as a person vulnerable in both the conservative
            circle and the liberal circle, and when left-right devide is
            irrelevant, simply vulnerable in a section of North America where
            Asianness does not get the respect it deserves.

            At University I used to know a White liberal girl(probably "Green",
            left-ish are the more accurate stereotypes) who spent most of her time
            volunteering with Oxfam, Fairtrade and chaperoning Chinese, African
            and Southeast Asian international students. She tried a couple time to
            "probe the Chinese out of me" such as asking whether my lastname was
            Chan. But besides that she just avoided talking to me. Perhaps I don't
            fit her everyday perception of the "Chinese student" as accented,
            timid and huddling together, surrounded by bubbles. So, me speaking
            English without accent, not socializing with Chinese exchanged
            students might be upsetting this perception?

            What also gets on my nerves is the liberals' emphasis on "cultural
            sensitivity"---trying to do everything according to what they perceive
            to be "appropriate" to the ethnic person they interact with.

            On the flip side, conservatives in my area are too eager to contradict
            whatever they consider "political correctness". There isn't any
            resemblance of courtesy and refineness in their behavior. Not that
            they are particularly overt in their prejudice against certain groups.
            In fact they act fairly "color-blind" besides a fondness for racist
            jokes. But their preferrence for macho-ness and eschewing anything
            sophisticated just makes them such ignorant jerks to deal with. These
            people are by far the majority. I'm afraid a culture like this will
            suffer from a closeminded monotoneity and an unnecessary drive of
            assimilation toward manners and outlooks that are mediocre and
            provincial.

            But overall, I have more problems with liberals than with conservatives.


            I think it's usually the more radical feminists or ethnic pryde people
            that tend to lump Asians together with White Middle America.

            Provincial conservatives would never think of identifying with Asians,
            except for giving them roles like Kahn in King of the Hill.








            DragonSeedLegacy
            Have Pride, Not Arrogance
            Promote Diversity, Not Chauvinism
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            This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002.
          • Kenneth Blair
            Why not focus on less negative things? You can find offense if you really want to find it but instead consider a character like Jin in Lost just for example.
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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              Why not focus on less negative things? You can find offense if you
              really want to find it but instead consider a character like Jin in Lost
              just for example.
              He is more capible than the Europeans as a provider on the island, more
              than once they are clumsy and he is fishing with ease or instructing
              them how to do so.
              He is a physically brave & moral character, even fought with the
              Nigerian Eko when he oppossed rescuing Micheal....he shows loyalty and
              courage and followed his missing friend into the central island despite
              any protests by others that were afraid of what was there. He showed
              strong principles and empathy with common folk when it showed his life
              in Korea, and it even cost him his job since he had concern for people
              without money.
              He might not be a perfect husband but as a character he displays many
              virtues that are lacking in the other (white) survivors.

              You simply see the glass is half empty.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ty
              Sent: Friday, 2 June 2006 8:40 a.m.
              To: DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [DSL] Re: Left-Wing Anti-Miscegenism


              > Indeed. I have considered mentioning to Ty, the fact that political
              > correctness doesn't extend to Asians may well mean they are lumped
              > with dominate societies and thereby not protected by white-bread
              > liberal sensitivities.
              > Omabi


              I think it's usually the more radical feminists or ethnic pryde people
              that tend to lump Asians together with White Middle America.

              Provincial conservatives would never think of identifying with Asians,
              except for giving them roles like Kahn in King of the Hill.







              DragonSeedLegacy
              Have Pride, Not Arrogance
              Promote Diversity, Not Chauvinism
              Yahoo! Groups Links









              This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002.
            • Ty
              ... Well, the real problem is that I have not been able to comment on the negative things for a long time. I guess this is one of the reasons why Asians,
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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                --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Blair"
                <Kenneth.Blair@...> wrote:
                >
                > Why not focus on less negative things? You can find offense if you
                > really want to find it but instead consider a character like Jin in Lost
                > just for example.

                Well, the real problem is that I have not been able to comment on the
                negative things for a long time. I guess this is one of the reasons
                why Asians, especially the Chinese, are characterized as "spineless"
                and "lacking sense of justice". On the other hand, Jews and Blacks are
                just too ready and too eager to react on anything they consider
                anti-semitic or anti-black, in my observation.






                > He is more capible than the Europeans as a provider on the island, more
                > than once they are clumsy and he is fishing with ease or instructing
                > them how to do so.


                This is one of my observations on TV or movies. Asian guys are
                sometimes characterized the "model minority": more than capable and
                more than proper. In the comedy "Stone Age", only the Asian caveman
                was characterized as being able to speak perfect English, whereas
                cavemen of other races spoke a bastardized form of Russian.

                I don't have much grudge particularly against the "model minority"
                stereotype.
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