Re: Assimilation [uh-SIM-il-AY-shn], noun
- I was rather not talking about non-Asians with Asian attributes, but
"Asians being appreciated because their stereotypes being perceived as
positive". Sometimes I just find these stereotypes contrary to my
values. In chinese it's called a "chicken bone"---something that has
flavor but doesn't bring you any real good. So you get stuck in the
limbo of whether or not to discard the chicken bone.
A simple choice for an existentialist: you simply discard it... or
keep it. But in real life it annoys the hell out of a lot of people.
If you think the acceptance of one individual by another individual is
the end of the story, I think there will be a lot left unsaid.
> > from my experience, "the right kind of people" don't make their
> > presence felt in this society, and are perhaps too enlightened to
> > change any status quo.
> Whew! Think I'll pray for the "right" girl to cheer you up too, Ty.
> Hope you're not prejudiced against Anglo girls with positive Asian
> stereotypes. ;) Grandmother Omabi
- Just my 2 renminbi on things. I'm not going to argue point for point
as this will just make this long thread needlessly even longer.
Both sides are correct. The difference is in the degree of things.
Ty and many other Asian-Americans/Canadians perceive an imbalance.
Their anger and frustrations are real. Whether you believe their
reasons to be right or wrong doesn't take away this fact that they
feel that things are unfair. Even in my own somewhat incomplete
observations of young Asian youths in NA, I've seen a subculture of
anger and frustration at what must be the duality of their own
family/cultural upbringing somewhat at odds with the general NA
cultural norms and practices. Don't dismiss their concerns just
because you don't see their underlaying reasons.
On the other hand, Kenneth and Omabi are also just as correct. There
is no conscious effort to keep Asians down or some greater plot to
westernise the world. People will be people and they will always be a
product of their environment. This is a generalisation, but people
can't help projecting what they believe in and what they have been
brought up to hold as true. That they do this inconsiderately is the
fault of being insensitivite and not the fault of conscious thought.
In another discussion with Kenneth, I talked about perceptions. Yes
it is true that there exists preceptions that colour certain cultures
more negatively than others or conversely more positively than others.
That is life. The only thing you can do is to be who you are.
Omabi's heritage stands her in good stead when she says that it is up
to you to stay true to yourself.
Be the best YOU that you can be, and let the rest of the world catch
up to you.
--- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "Ty" <tigerboycanada@...> wrote:
> I was rather not talking about non-Asians with Asian attributes, but
> "Asians being appreciated because their stereotypes being perceived as
> positive". Sometimes I just find these stereotypes contrary to my
> values. In chinese it's called a "chicken bone"---something that has
> flavor but doesn't bring you any real good. So you get stuck in the
> limbo of whether or not to discard the chicken bone.
> A simple choice for an existentialist: you simply discard it... or
> keep it. But in real life it annoys the hell out of a lot of people.
> If you think the acceptance of one individual by another individual is
> the end of the story, I think there will be a lot left unsaid.
> > > from my experience, "the right kind of people" don't make their
> > > presence felt in this society, and are perhaps too enlightened to
> > > change any status quo.
> > >
> > Whew! Think I'll pray for the "right" girl to cheer you up too, Ty.
> > Hope you're not prejudiced against Anglo girls with positive Asian
> > stereotypes. ;) Grandmother Omabi
- --- In DragonSeedLegacy@yahoogroups.com, "Kenneth Blair"
>minded as anyone?
> Don't you find Chinese people are just as capable of being narrow
Well precisely. I tend to feel that Chinese society is a more
unwelcoming, more pretentious and more insecured society. So I usually
waste no time painting it with the colors of ethnocentric pride or
nostalgia. When you leave a place, you do have the choice to leave it
behind, just like the Norwegian when he comes to America. But my
frustration that there are traits of unsociability, unimaginality,
spinelessness, un-individuality in the Chinese culture does sometimes
seep into the subconscious and unsettle me to no end: I'm afraid it
might be a bad karma produced by people who are unconscious of it, but
will affect people who are conscious of it.
> Is your problem actually just with 'people?'People are fickle and they don't follow one pattern. But all kinds of
identity stereotypes and discourses are powerful illusions. Rather
than separating the two thing, I'd say, poeple are the problem, but
it's powerful illusions that give shape to the problem.
> Anywhere you go there will be a majority & a >minority and therewill be at some level an >'us' & 'them' despite all the best will in
the >world, and I can assure you there is no >inherent ill-will to
Asians in particular.
There is no inherent ill-fate in being marginalized I guess.
> Now that you qualify your area of objection to >a much smallergeographical area of the United >States I suggest you don't get too
philosphical >about this societal issue as some inherent >quality of
modern anglo-saxons. Chinese >basically means business (or business
threat), >cuisine & kung fu to the average disinterested >onlooked in
the West, it doesn't mean 'un-manly' >or 'figure of jest'.
It probably also means that the Chinese themselves are not conscious
enough, or doing enough to be more confident and socially involved.
> If life in New England is really so terrible >and the people aroundyou are ignorant then >move if you think somewhere else is better (is
>there anywhere?),I tend not to think L.A. is better. Everybody seen "Crash"? I don't
move because I can't stand it and foolishly hope that somewhere else
will be a greener pasture. It's not that bad yet and I am a realist,
not a fanciful categorizer of localities.
>It really seems you are talking about a very >harmless end of thespectrum of predjudice.
Yes quite harmless if I can settle for it. It would at least feel much
better if it admits, rather than creating the euphoria of
"correctness". And it does feel much better now that harder, nastier
conservatives are more visible, more in power than in the 90s (and
they really put on some nasty shows that in effect admit racism exists
and is commonplace), when they lurked at the back, sporting political
correctness under a "liberal consensus" while nothing was really changed.
> Can you elaborate just exactly how your >attempts atuh-SIM-il-AY-shn have been beaten >down by the evil & unwelcoming
Just frustrated by apathy and stereotypical perceptions. But
nonetheless most people are more or less approcheable. So it's really
a catch 22 whether or not "to discard". I mean discarding that stupid
smile on your face taht you accept all those stupid stereotypes that
numb your mind.
Blacks and Jews, some of them, can affor to do it. They have the
"scripts", or "discourses" figured out. Asians just can't bother.
Either slacking or not very conscious.
> Jeez....I'll tell you what really makes me >think less of Asians.The amount of bitching I >hear about how badly they are treated by
Whitey >on these internet forums.
Yeah, lots of them are actually Bananas. The most conscious of the
"bad karma", but have the least idea where they got there the first
place. So, much of their rant sound like a moan to me. And these rants
made very little success impacting either the general society or the
way Asian-Americans think.
> The best way to beat a sterotype is to >contradict it, rather thanblame the media and >Western perceptions.
If what I did was all whining, why do I care about calling on Asians
to be more conscious? Afterall it's not the conventional ways the West
has been for decades and centuries, but the response of Asians to it.
And by conscious I don't mean "Hip Hop-conscious" or "ethnic
Pryde-conscious". I really hate that kind of stuffs.
> You needn't project what you said in your >original post aboutuh-SIM-il-AY-shn beyond >individuals you meet who lack tact.
>Yeah I treat individuals as I would like to be treated by them. And I
talk to each specific individual in his/her own lingo. So, you are not
talking to a preacher or crusader here. What's more, I still tend to
(perhaps due to years and years of politically correct indoctrination)
think of "assimilation" as a bad word and bad idea---even though every
second ethnic person I run into daily is in fact an ardent
assimilater, and I out of sympathy cannot incriminate them for doing
something "ethically wrong". But I think this discrepency has
something to do with the uncritical pattern of people in this society
toward questionable things, and their tendency to be hypocritical
about ethical beliefs.
So in the end, i might just be an Aristotelian. There is nothing
particular that annoys me other than IRRATIONALITY.