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Re: Jade SunCrow Goddess NuWa (Noah?) ... Replicas?

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  • MessiahTwain
    ~~ ~~~ aho Ken, Agreed. I would never argue veneration of a Goddess spreading from one source all over the globe. For the condition of being human -- and
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 5, 2005

      aho Ken,

      Agreed. I would never argue "veneration of a Goddess 'spreading'
      from one source all over the globe."

      For "the condition of being human" -- and being connected
      worldwide for some 500,000 or a million years -- nullifies any
      requirement that a Chinese NuWa (Noah?) originated in India,
      or Tibet, or Nepal ... for her to be present in all those pre-historic

      That is the ubiquity in the forms of the human culture, language,
      epic stories and artistry ... gives us a great template for the
      study/unearthing of particular and specific forms for each
      of the periods and provinces of our whole ancestral pageantry.

      Like the familiar figure of the English Holmes -- running out
      to the location of a street-light, to seek for evidence of a
      night-time robbery. The template of 'the night' is universal
      to all our experiences ... and a celestial 'slate' for the writing
      of the newly-uncovered his/herstory.

      WE are extremely fortunate to have contemporary figures
      such as Gou Dashun receiving some moderate coverage
      in the worldwide internet media.

      I look forward to a year (next?) when we get a hundred times
      such discussion -- and ten times the number of figureheads --
      and a beginning of significant circulation of the imagery
      from neolithic China ... an ancestry for ALL contemporary
      humanity no matter what their 'province' or language!

      In the light of the Mother Country,

      Millennium Twain


      --- Kenneth Blair wrote:

      My wife had mentioned the snake bodied woman as part of the original
      Chinese creation myth to me before.

      I did look at the article earlier. I see you are familiar with the
      Niuheliang site excavated by Prof. Gou. I always have difficulty
      remembering how to spell it off the top of my head. The man
      in charge of those excavations up untill the early 90's is Gou

      With the snake tailed figure featuring in Chinese mythology for
      so long, and it being known as part of the origin of the world, it is
      not unlikely there will be figures of jade, or paintings of such
      images reoccuring.

      Your connection between the veneration of Quan Yin in more modern
      times as supplanting an earlier goddess worship (as Rome replaced
      sun veneration/earlier festivals with Christianity) is not unreasonable,
      but is a little flawed (see below).

      If the arrival of the buddhism pantheon was not seperated from the Hong
      Shan by millenia then the idea would be very sound. Hong Shan is NOT a
      period however, it is a culture. There were other cultures in China
      contemporary to Hong Shan and this is a specfic geographical area.
      Neither is there a real connection between the Hong Shan and the early
      Chinese dynasties, and therefore the later Chinese dynasties.
      Hong Shan is NOT a period between stone age and bronze age as your
      article states. Hong Shan is one of many distinct stone age (more
      correctly neolithic) cultures.

      Hong shan culture seems to have had no real impact on the Shang and
      other early periods which followed them. Shang takes after the LongShan
      culture. The Long Shan, and Liangzhu culture influences the Shang in vessel
      forms, (early bronze taken from pottery proto-types), scapulmancy &
      early characters (oracle bones divination), and jade forms (ritual Bi of
      jade, and more rarely the Tsong/Cong jade tubes).

      In this way the lack of connection between Hong Shan and the dynasties
      is commented on by authors.

      Another issue with the link between an early goddess, the myth of
      creation, and the other eastern dieties is that there is a period of
      ritual ancestor worship which forms an interval between this time and
      the period of disunity where buddhism and foreign thought finds favour
      in the disrupted China.

      For the intervening period there was Shang ritual which had diety 'Shang
      Di' and ancestor worship. The Zhou and the Han inherited and assimilated
      this ancestor worship but lost the diety. Other concepts of heaven and
      the cosmos featured in their rituals and vision of the afterlife.

      The Han did have a female diety figure in art, the ''queen mother of the
      west'' but I recall she again changed persona over time. She came to be
      viewed as beneficial but was not always percieved so. My memory of what
      I read on her is hazy however.

      Any idea the veneration of a Goddess requires 'spreading' from one
      source all over the globe does not follow. Apart from the break in the
      Chinese symbolic signifigance of a goddess simple similarities do not
      require connections beyond a common human worldwide condition.
      The condition of being human.


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