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Re: Painting of Ed Kelly turns up at auction

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  • AaronL
    So then Barnabus Saul actually existed, by that name. I had suspected the name was an invention (due to the Biblical Saul s issues with Barnabus). Have you
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 26, 2013
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      So then Barnabus Saul actually existed, by that name. I had suspected the name was an invention (due to the Biblical Saul's issues with Barnabus).

      Have you found anything that might relate to his falling out with Dee, and why Kelley would have had reason to "warn" Dee that Saul was plotting against him?

      LVX
      Aaron

      --- In DrJohnDee@yahoogroups.com, souttar john <johnsouttar@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear all
      >
      > I have also found his ordination which is rather curious as you will see. I
      > have not been able to find his Oxford MA as Saul, Sawle, Sale, Sewell,
      > Saywell and wonder if he actually had one.
      >
      > Person: Saule, Barnaby (1596 - 1596)
      > * ** *
      >
      > CCEd Person ID: *105363*
      > **
      >
      > ***Show all records* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/>
      > **
      >
      > ***Key to Code Numbers* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/mail/codes.jsp>
      > **
      >
      > ***View Person Record for Saule ,
      > Barnaby*<https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/persons/DisplayCcePerson.jsp?PersonID=105363>
      > **
      >
      > ***show details* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/>*Comments*
      > * **
      >
      > Education Events
      > ** ** ***
      >
      > ***show details* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/>*MA : Oxford*
      > * ** *
      >
      > *
      >
      > Ordination Events
      > ** ** ***
      >
      > ***show details* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/>*deacon : 20/06/1596
      > (Coldwell, John/Salisbury 1591-1596)*
      > * ** *
      >
      > *** ** *
      >
      > ***show details* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/>*priest : 20/06/1596
      > (Coldwell, John/Salisbury 1591-1596*
      > * *
      >
      > **
      >
      > *John Coldwell* (c.1535–1596) was an English physician and bishop.
      > *
      >
      > Life
      > *
      >
      > He was born at *Faversham* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Faversham>.
      > He graduated B.A. at *St. John's College,
      > Cambridge*<https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/St._John%27s_College,_Cambridge>in
      > 1555, where he became a Fellow and graduated M.A. in 1558. He
      > graduated
      > M.D. in 1564.
      >
      > He is said to have practiced as a physician. He became *Archdeacon of
      > Chichester* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Archdeacon_of_Chichester>in
      > 1571. He was rector of
      > *Aldington, Kent* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Aldington,_Kent> in
      > 1558, of *Tunstall,
      > Kent*<https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Tunstall,_Kent>in 1572, and
      > of
      > *Saltwood* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Saltwood> in 1580.
      >
      > He became *Bishop of
      > Salisbury*<https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Bishop_of_Salisbury>in
      > 1591. His appointment was delayed by an intrigue, involving
      > *Robert Bennet* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Robert_Bennet> as
      > another candidate, and designed to secure from the diocese the site of
      > *Sherborne
      > Castle* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Sherborne_Castle> for *Walter
      > Raleigh* <https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Walter_Raleigh>. He was
      > accused of impoverishing his see; during his episcopate Sir Walter Raleigh
      > robbed it of the castle, park, and parsonage of Sherborne, together with
      > other possessions. A bishop, however, had little chance of keeping anything
      > if the queen or one of her favourites wanted it. Coldwell complains
      > bitterly of Raleigh in a letter to *Henry
      > Brook*<https://mail.blueyonder.co.uk/wiki/Henry_Brooke,_11th_Baron_Cobham>,
      > dated 10 April 1594, and on 22 April 1596 prays Sir R. Cecil to tell him
      > that owing to the conduct of "his man Mears" in keeping his "farm and
      > arrearages" from him he could pay the his duties.
      >
      > He died on 14 October 1596, and was then so deeply in debt that it is said
      > that his friends were glad to bury him "suddenly and secretly" in Bishop
      > Wyville's grave." wikipedia
      >
      > The `Mears' mentioned above is the one in a snippet earlier today and this
      > relates to a very long running court case that Saul was involved with. It
      > seems to have led to his being ordained for some reason. I will come to the
      > evidence for his training as a physician soon but it is not my research and
      > I would like permission from the person who discovered this. Note that the
      > bishop who ordained him went to Burghley/Dee's university college and was
      > also a physician. He died a few months after this ordination which was
      > curious as Saul was made deacon and priest on the same day.
      > Saul's wife remarried after he died.
      >
      > No comments on Laski then who is probably the person represented in the
      > famous woodcut. You will see the startling similarity to his portrait here,
      > even his hat.
      >
      >
      > http://booksasportablepiecesofthought.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/falling-star-essay-instead-of-review.html
      >
      > John
      >
      >
      > On 26 August 2013 14:28, souttar john <johnsouttar@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Some more on that painting. It may not be Kelley at all according to the
      > > auctioneer's description.:
      > >
      > > ENGLISH SCHOOL, 17TH CENTURY
      > >
      > > VANITAS PORTRAIT OF THE MEDIUM AND ALCHEMIST EDWARD KELLEY
      > > seated full length at a table by a witch and her familiar (a cat), with
      > > inscription lower left Laski Magician on a globe and on the fore-edge of a
      > > book The Lyar's Regulator, distemper on nine elm (?) boards (hinged at the
      > > centre), arched top, c195 x 249cm, contemporary bolection moulded frame
      > > with loss
      > > Condition report:
      > >
      > > The medium extremely fragile with numerous areas of flaking/missing paint.
      > > Shrinkage crackS between the boards but entirely original and unrestored,
      > > areas of woodworm evident on the reverse, the boards with the original
      > > horizontal bracing bars (one incomplete), the original rusted iron
      > > butterfly hinges and two substantial forged rings for suspension, original
      > > and complete. This lot is to be moved solely at the purchaser's risk
      > > Sale date: Wednesday 12 & Thursday 13 June at 10.30am
      > >
      > > Sunday 9 12noon-5pm, Monday 10 10am-4pm, Tuesday 11 10am-2pm and mornings
      > > of Sale 8.30-10.30am
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > And on the will Bar Saule states that his wife Katherine was the daughter
      > > of Anthony Ashley who was a baronet and Elizabeth's one time Secretary of
      > > War. The will was witnessed by Adrian Gilbert. I am reading it in its
      > > original handwriting which will take me some time to decipher.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > john souttar
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On 26 August 2013 12:28, solsticewooddragon <tmichelle57@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >> **
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> I see that Aaron Leitch has blogged on it now, also.
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> http://aaronleitch.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/will-the-real-edward-kelley-please-stand-up/
      > >>
      > >> If the painting takes even some of its redition of Kelly's appearanec on
      > >> local
      > >> knowledge, it would be worthwhie to look again at who among Kelly's later
      > >> acquaintances was from Warwickshire. Parkins/Perkins (the one who made
      > >> the "fat
      > >> and merry" comment) wasn't from there, though curiously he did (1601)
      > >> serve on
      > >> some sort of committee for Lord Burghley that concerned the
      > >> painters/stainers
      > >> (see
      > >> http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/parkins-
      > >> (perkin\
      > >> \
      > >> s)-christopher-1545-1622)
      > >>
      > >> Antiquary Henry Ferrers, the sort who might have collected such things,
      > >> was from
      > >> Warwickshire. The most famous person from Warwickshire, of course, was
      > >> Shakespeare, though he seemed to have a habit of leaving nothing behind.
      > >> :)
      > >>
      > >> Written descriptions of Kelly have existed for a long time--
      > >> Wilding quotes several of them in the article that's in the files section
      > >> here for
      > >> instance, and Bridges condenses those in the paragraphs posted on the two
      > >> blog sites-- but before now the descriptions just didn't match up at all to
      > >> any
      > >> known drawing. They do match up with this one better than with the
      > >> engraving
      > >> used by Casaubon. I hope something more about the painting's provenance
      > >> comes
      > >> out soon.
      > >>
      > >> LVX,
      > >>
      > >> Terry
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> --- In DrJohnDee@yahoogroups.com, "solsticewooddragon" <tmichelle57@>
      > >> wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> > http://networkedblogs.com/OqDi5
      > >> >
      > >> > "It appears that the painting was made for a person who was working
      > >> with Dee and Kelly's system. It was painted on the inside of a cupboard or
      > >> meditation room. In the background there appears to be an image of someone
      > >> summoning something while standing in a magic circle. In otherwords this is
      > >> not about the alchemist Edward Kelly, but the magician."
      > >> >
      > >> > Does anyone have any further information beyond what it says on Nick's
      > >> blog?
      > >> >
      > >> > Thanks!
      > >> >
      > >> > LVX,
      > >> >
      > >> > Terry
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      >
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