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[Fwd: [DrClark] Re: SynchroMeter and Frequency generator]

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  • Monica Pignotti
    Linda, I am very sorry that you took my responses to you, which showed documentation that was contrary to what you say, as attacks . It was not my intention
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 3, 2001
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      Linda,

      I am very sorry that you took my responses to you, which showed
      documentation that was contrary to what you say, as "attacks". It
      was not my intention to be "mean and vindictive" but when someone
      makes claims such as the ones you are making, to a group of people
      who are seriously ill, IMHO, they need to be challenged. If you had
      said that this was your experience and not made claims about what it
      could do for others and promoted this, I would not have had a problem
      with that.

      I realize that there are people on this list that feel any challenge
      or criticism is being "negative", unless that criticism is of
      conventional medicine and then anything goes. Conventional medicine
      does have its flaws and I have no trouble in acknowledging those --
      that does not, however, make it okay to make big claims about methods
      that don't have evidence to substantiate them.

      When it comes to "negativity" I would urge people to not confuse the
      message with the messenger. My point of view is that people who are
      exploring the possibility of using an alternative treatment have a
      right to know all the information available on it, not just what
      is "positive", in order to make an informed choice. That might well
      include "negative" information that the person really doesn't want to
      believe but really should know about before making a life & death
      decision. I'm sorry if you see this as failing to "respect and honor
      healthy boundaries", but if you post something on an internet forum,
      you can expect to be challenged by people who see things
      differently. If it's that painful for you to hear other views from
      people who don't share your views, then perhaps you should think
      twice before engaging in a discussion forum because that's the nature
      of life in cyberspace -- people don't always agree on things and will
      express their opinions, even ones that might challenge your world
      view and make you uncomfortable.

      Monica Pignotti


      --- In DrClark@egroups.com, Linda Blair <lblair@d...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Linda Blair wrote:
      >
      > > Monica and others! I firmly believe this system saved both my
      life
      > > and my daughter's life, after terrifying experiences with
      traditional
      > > medicine which cost me a LOT. I believe in this system with all
      of my
      > > heart and soul, to put it mildly. I feel I have witnessed it
      perform
      > > more than one miracle and I truly don't care what you or anyone
      else
      > > thinks. My child is alive cancer free and doing quite well after
      > > surviving a terminal form of cancer which was medically diagnosed
      > > while living with her father. She was extremely ill and in a lot
      of
      > > severe pain and wasting away when she finally chose to move back
      home
      > > and do holistic medicine. I had to take off of work to care for
      her.
      > > I thought for sure she was going to die. I was horrified and
      grief
      > > stricken to say the least. It was a very, very traumatic
      experience
      > > and I still cannot talk about it without crying. I don't need any
      > > other form of "proof" and I certainly do not need your approval,
      or
      > > anyone else's. And, yes, I feel offended at your attacks on the
      system
      > > which I feel saved her life. I don't feel like I see any of "you"
      > > being able to honor and respect the healthy boundaries and/or
      > > differences of others. I find your attitudes, behavior and
      attacks
      > > cold, offensive and disgusting. I am not going to argue with
      you, it
      > > is absurd. Because of my experience with traditional medicine I
      feel
      > > towards them as you do towards Dr. Clark et al. We have different
      > > opinions. So be it. I am not trying to cram mine down your
      throat, it
      > > is beyond me why you all can't exercise the same respect for
      others.
      > > This is a subject, which after my child's experience, is a sore
      spot
      > > for me. It has been told that some of you have good intentions,
      I am
      > > not so sure. You seem to me to have a mean and vindictive
      streak. I
      > > will not answer anymore of your messages. End of story.
      > >
      > > Monica Pignotti wrote:
      > >
      > >> --- In DrClark@egroups.com, Linda Blair <lblair@d...> wrote:
      > >> >Sorry Monica, this is registered as a NON-COGNITIVE bio-feedback
      > >> >machine. Now go do your homework and figure out what this
      means.
      > >> >Also, wrong number! Woops!
      > >>
      > >> No Linda, it's time for you to do YOUR homework and look at the
      > >> actual official FDA documents which are up on the web at the
      site I
      > >> mentioned, rather than what you have been told. What I quoted
      were
      > >> not my own words -- they came directly from an official FDA
      document
      > >>
      > >> that I got at their own website, so if you have a problem with
      that
      > >> and think the FDA is in error, I suggest you contact the FDA.
      Note
      > >> that it is NOT at all approved for curing cancer or any other
      > >> disease
      > >> and there is no research that shows that it does this.
      > >>
      > >> Monica Pignotti
      > >>
      > >> Learn more from:
      > >> http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/
      > >> http://home.online.no/~huldakli/
      > >> http://www.drclark.net/
      > >> http://home.online.no/~dusan/
      > >>
      > >> Community email addresses:
      > >> Post message: DrClark@onelist.com
      > >> Subscribe: DrClark-subscribe@onelist.com
      > >> Unsubscribe: DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >> Community URL addresses:
      > >> http://egroups.com/group/DrClark
      > >> Subscription URL: http://egroups.com/subscribe/DrClark
      > >> To unsubscribe, send blank message to this e-mail address
      > >> DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >> To subscribe: DrClark-subscribe@onelist.com
      > >> List Archives: http://egroups.com/messages/DrClark
      > >
    • V. Richter
      Linda, Thank you for opening your self up to this list abuse and sharing your story with us. It would have been nice if you didn t have to take the abuse.
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 3, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Linda,

        Thank you for opening your self up to this list abuse and sharing your story
        with us. It would have been nice if you didn't have to take the abuse.
        Folks, she and her daughter were cured of cancer AFTER conventional medicine
        failed! Does that not stir your human compassion???? People like you,
        Linda, with stories to tell of the failure of conventional medicine and the
        subsequent success of alternative medicine prove more than all the double
        blind, peer reviewed studies in the world. When person after person is sent
        home to die by the helpless conventional doctors, and another form of
        treatment works, that tells me that the conventional medicine has it's
        limits. These conventional professionals are mortal men/women that are
        being put up on a pedistal where no person belongs. They are all fallable
        beings, they don't know everything, and they can get greedy. If we can
        admit these obvious truths we'd probably be able to agree that allopathic
        medicine has it's place, and alternative has it's place. They both are good
        for some things. I agree with you, Linda. Some of the people on this list
        have not shown any sincere interst in learning anything beneficial about
        alternative medicine. They have, however taken every opportunity to
        belittle the successful efforts to cure if they don't happen to be approved
        by the BIG-MONEY interests. Anyway, glad you and your daughter are better.
        Hope you have a good and successfull life. Remember the famous saying that
        I believe Chuck shared a while back: I told Wilbur it won't work, I told
        Orville it won't work, and now I'm telling you IT WON'T WORK! This is what
        some people on this list remind me of ;)

        Vince Richter


        >From: Foggschool@...
        >Reply-To: DrClark@egroups.com
        >To: DrClark@egroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [Fwd: [DrClark] Re: SynchroMeter and Frequency generator]
        >Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:54:26 EST
        >
        >Linda Blair, you are an absolute gem!
        >
        >I wonder if the quackers will take responsibilty for trying to tear peoples
        >last hope from them, in their attempt to silence that which is a threat to
        >their industry...(?)
        >
        >In a message dated 1/3/2001 6:35:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        >lblair@... writes:
        >
        ><< Linda Blair wrote:
        >
        > > Monica and others! I firmly believe this system saved both my life
        > > and my daughter's life, after terrifying experiences with traditional
        > > medicine which cost me a LOT. I believe in this system with all of my
        > > heart and soul, to put it mildly. I feel I have witnessed it perform
        > > more than one miracle and I truly don't care what you or anyone else
        > > thinks. My child is alive cancer free and doing quite well after
        > > surviving a terminal form of cancer which was medically diagnosed
        > > while living with her father. She was extremely ill and in a lot of
        > > severe pain and wasting away when she finally chose to move back home
        > > and do holistic medicine. I had to take off of work to care for her.
        > > I thought for sure she was going to die. I was horrified and grief
        > > stricken to say the least. It was a very, very traumatic experience
        > > and I still cannot talk about it without crying. I don't need any
        > > other form of "proof" and I certainly do not need your approval, or
        > > anyone else's. And, yes, I feel offended at your attacks on the system
        > > which I feel saved her life. I don't feel like I see any of "you"
        > > being able to honor and respect the healthy boundaries and/or
        > > differences of others. I find your attitudes, behavior and attacks
        > > cold, offensive and disgusting. I am not going to argue with you, it
        > > is absurd. Because of my experience with traditional medicine I feel
        > > towards them as you do towards Dr. Clark et al. We have different
        > > opinions. So be it. I am not trying to cram mine down your throat, it
        > > is beyond me why you all can't exercise the same respect for others.
        > > This is a subject, which after my child's experience, is a sore spot
        > > for me. It has been told that some of you have good intentions, I am
        > > not so sure. You seem to me to have a mean and vindictive streak. I
        > > will not answer anymore of your messages. End of story.
        > > >>

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      • kinabaloo@aol.com
        Monica - why are you here?? Are you really interested in Dr Clark s methods and claims? You don t have to be a true believer, but if you are prejudiced against
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 9, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          Monica - why are you here??
          Are you really interested in Dr Clark's methods and claims? You don't
          have to be a true believer, but if you are prejudiced against the
          topic of this forum then you should not be here. And your blind faith
          in government and big business is breath-taking and absurd.
          K

          --- In DrClark@egroups.com, "Monica Pignotti" <pignotti@w...> wrote:
          > Linda,
          >
          > I am very sorry that you took my responses to you, which showed
          > documentation that was contrary to what you say, as "attacks". It
          > was not my intention to be "mean and vindictive" but when someone
          > makes claims such as the ones you are making, to a group of people
          > who are seriously ill, IMHO, they need to be challenged. If you
          had
          > said that this was your experience and not made claims about what
          it
          > could do for others and promoted this, I would not have had a
          problem
          > with that.
          >
          > I realize that there are people on this list that feel any
          challenge
          > or criticism is being "negative", unless that criticism is of
          > conventional medicine and then anything goes. Conventional
          medicine
          > does have its flaws and I have no trouble in acknowledging those --
          > that does not, however, make it okay to make big claims about
          methods
          > that don't have evidence to substantiate them.
          >
          > When it comes to "negativity" I would urge people to not confuse
          the
          > message with the messenger. My point of view is that people who
          are
          > exploring the possibility of using an alternative treatment have a
          > right to know all the information available on it, not just what
          > is "positive", in order to make an informed choice. That might
          well
          > include "negative" information that the person really doesn't want
          to
          > believe but really should know about before making a life & death
          > decision. I'm sorry if you see this as failing to "respect and
          honor
          > healthy boundaries", but if you post something on an internet
          forum,
          > you can expect to be challenged by people who see things
          > differently. If it's that painful for you to hear other views from
          > people who don't share your views, then perhaps you should think
          > twice before engaging in a discussion forum because that's the
          nature
          > of life in cyberspace -- people don't always agree on things and
          will
          > express their opinions, even ones that might challenge your world
          > view and make you uncomfortable.
          >
          > Monica Pignotti
          >
          >
          > --- In DrClark@egroups.com, Linda Blair <lblair@d...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Linda Blair wrote:
          > >
          > > > Monica and others! I firmly believe this system saved both my
          > life
          > > > and my daughter's life, after terrifying experiences with
          > traditional
          > > > medicine which cost me a LOT. I believe in this system with
          all
          > of my
          > > > heart and soul, to put it mildly. I feel I have witnessed it
          > perform
          > > > more than one miracle and I truly don't care what you or anyone
          > else
          > > > thinks. My child is alive cancer free and doing quite well
          after
          > > > surviving a terminal form of cancer which was medically
          diagnosed
          > > > while living with her father. She was extremely ill and in a
          lot
          > of
          > > > severe pain and wasting away when she finally chose to move
          back
          > home
          > > > and do holistic medicine. I had to take off of work to care
          for
          > her.
          > > > I thought for sure she was going to die. I was horrified and
          > grief
          > > > stricken to say the least. It was a very, very traumatic
          > experience
          > > > and I still cannot talk about it without crying. I don't need
          any
          > > > other form of "proof" and I certainly do not need your
          approval,
          > or
          > > > anyone else's. And, yes, I feel offended at your attacks on the
          > system
          > > > which I feel saved her life. I don't feel like I see any
          of "you"
          > > > being able to honor and respect the healthy boundaries and/or
          > > > differences of others. I find your attitudes, behavior and
          > attacks
          > > > cold, offensive and disgusting. I am not going to argue with
          > you, it
          > > > is absurd. Because of my experience with traditional medicine I
          > feel
          > > > towards them as you do towards Dr. Clark et al. We have
          different
          > > > opinions. So be it. I am not trying to cram mine down your
          > throat, it
          > > > is beyond me why you all can't exercise the same respect for
          > others.
          > > > This is a subject, which after my child's experience, is a sore
          > spot
          > > > for me. It has been told that some of you have good
          intentions,
          > I am
          > > > not so sure. You seem to me to have a mean and vindictive
          > streak. I
          > > > will not answer anymore of your messages. End of story.
          > > >
          > > > Monica Pignotti wrote:
          > > >
          > > >> --- In DrClark@egroups.com, Linda Blair <lblair@d...> wrote:
          > > >> >Sorry Monica, this is registered as a NON-COGNITIVE bio-
          feedback
          > > >> >machine. Now go do your homework and figure out what this
          > means.
          > > >> >Also, wrong number! Woops!
          > > >>
          > > >> No Linda, it's time for you to do YOUR homework and look at the
          > > >> actual official FDA documents which are up on the web at the
          > site I
          > > >> mentioned, rather than what you have been told. What I quoted
          > were
          > > >> not my own words -- they came directly from an official FDA
          > document
          > > >>
          > > >> that I got at their own website, so if you have a problem with
          > that
          > > >> and think the FDA is in error, I suggest you contact the FDA.
          > Note
          > > >> that it is NOT at all approved for curing cancer or any other
          > > >> disease
          > > >> and there is no research that shows that it does this.
          > > >>
          > > >> Monica Pignotti
          > > >>
          > > >> Learn more from:
          > > >> http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/
          > > >> http://home.online.no/~huldakli/
          > > >> http://www.drclark.net/
          > > >> http://home.online.no/~dusan/
          > > >>
          > > >> Community email addresses:
          > > >> Post message: DrClark@onelist.com
          > > >> Subscribe: DrClark-subscribe@onelist.com
          > > >> Unsubscribe: DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > > >> Community URL addresses:
          > > >> http://egroups.com/group/DrClark
          > > >> Subscription URL: http://egroups.com/subscribe/DrClark
          > > >> To unsubscribe, send blank message to this e-mail address
          > > >> DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > > >> To subscribe: DrClark-subscribe@onelist.com
          > > >> List Archives: http://egroups.com/messages/DrClark
          > > >
        • Monica Pignotti
          I was respecting the modertors rules not allowing any critical comments on this list, but Kinabaloo opened up the topic, by addressing a question to me, so I
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 9, 2001
          • 0 Attachment
            I was respecting the modertors rules not allowing any critical comments on this list, but Kinabaloo opened up the topic, by addressing a question to me, so I have a right to answer. 
             
            Dear kinabaloo@... ((I have to address you by your e-mail address because you would not state your name),
             
            ROFLMAO!  You certainly do make a lot of assumptions about me, kinabaloo.  You've never met me and you certainly haven't a clue about my views on big business and government.  People who really know me would be rolling on the floor laughing at your assumption that I have "breathtaking" blind faith in government, given my political persuasion, which is very much opposed to big government.  No, I do question government and conventional medicine, when called for, but I also question "alternative" approaches that make big claims and/or charge excessively high prices (e.g., $29,000) for devices, without good evidence to back them up.  If my questioning of the claims made here leads you to jump to the conclusion I'm "prejudiced" then that's your problem, not mine.  My only point was that seriously ill people are very vulnerable, because of their very understandable strong desire to believe big claims.
             
            The moderators have posted guidelines for discussion telling people on this list that we are no longer allowed to challenge anyone.  Fortunately, there are other lists on e-groups where people are free to express their opinions, both negative and positive, so people can have all the information available upon which to base decisions.  I moderate an e-groups list www.egroups.com/subscribe/freedomofmind where people can discuss experiences they or others have had in cultic groups where any dissention is labelled as "negativity" and any criticism is labelled as "prejudice".    For characteristics of cultic groups, I suggest people go to www.freedomofmind.com and check it out.
             
            I also just found out today that there is a very recently formed e-groups discussion on Hulda Clark www.egroups.com/subscribe/BashHulda where people are free to discuss and question whatever they see fit to question.  It's really a shame, though, that it was necessary to create such a forum, rather than allowing an open discussion of both the pros and cons, on this list.  The moderators seem to think that people here need to be "protected" from us, but my experience has been that there is nothing more harmful to people, than isolating themselves from any dissenting opinions.  Just look at Jonestown and Waco for examples.
             
            Monica Pignotti
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 2:25 PM
            Subject: [DrClark] Monica

            Monica - why are you here??
            Are you really interested in Dr Clark's methods and claims? You don't
            have to be a true believer, but if you are prejudiced against the
            topic of this forum then you should not be here. And your blind faith
            in government and big business is breath-taking and absurd.
            K

            --- In DrClark@egroups.com, "Monica Pignotti" <pignotti@w...> wrote:
            > Linda,
            >
            > I am very sorry that you took my responses to you, which showed
            > documentation that was contrary to what you say, as "attacks".  It
            > was not my intention to be "mean and vindictive" but when someone
            > makes claims such as the ones you are making, to a group of people
            > who are seriously ill, IMHO, they need to be challenged.  If you
            had
            > said that this was your experience and not made claims about what
            it
            > could do for others and promoted this, I would not have had a
            problem
            > with that. 
            >
            > I realize that there are people on this list that feel any
            challenge
            > or criticism is being "negative", unless that criticism is of
            > conventional medicine and then anything goes.  Conventional
            medicine
            > does have its flaws and I have no trouble in acknowledging those --
            > that does not, however, make it okay to make big claims about
            methods
            > that don't have evidence to substantiate them.
            >
            > When it comes to "negativity" I would urge people to not confuse
            the
            > message with the messenger.  My point of view is that people who
            are
            > exploring the possibility of using an alternative treatment have a
            > right to know all the information available on it, not just what
            > is "positive", in order to make an informed choice.  That might
            well
            > include "negative" information that the person really doesn't want
            to
            > believe but really should know about before making a life & death
            > decision.  I'm sorry if you see this as failing to "respect and
            honor
            > healthy boundaries", but if you post something on an internet
            forum,
            > you can expect to be challenged by people who see things
            > differently.  If it's that painful for you to hear other views from
            > people who don't share your views, then perhaps you should think
            > twice before engaging in a discussion forum because that's the
            nature
            > of life in cyberspace -- people don't always agree on things and
            will
            > express their opinions, even ones that might challenge your world
            > view and make you uncomfortable.
            >
            > Monica Pignotti
            >
            >
            > --- In DrClark@egroups.com, Linda Blair <lblair@d...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Linda Blair wrote:
            > >
            > > > Monica and others!  I firmly believe this system saved both my
            > life
            > > > and my daughter's life, after  terrifying experiences with
            > traditional
            > > > medicine which cost me a LOT.  I believe in this system with
            all
            > of my
            > > > heart and soul, to put it mildly.  I feel I have witnessed it
            > perform
            > > > more than one miracle and I truly don't care what you or anyone
            > else
            > > > thinks.  My child is alive cancer free and doing quite well
            after
            > > > surviving a terminal form of cancer which was medically
            diagnosed
            > > > while living with her father.  She was extremely ill and in a
            lot
            > of
            > > > severe pain and wasting away when she finally  chose to move
            back
            > home
            > > > and do holistic medicine.  I had to take off of work to care
            for
            > her.
            > > > I thought for sure she was going to die.  I was horrified and
            > grief
            > > > stricken to say the least.  It was a very, very traumatic
            > experience
            > > > and I still cannot talk about it without crying.  I don't need
            any
            > > > other form of "proof" and I certainly do not need your
            approval,
            > or
            > > > anyone else's. And, yes, I feel offended at your attacks on the
            > system
            > > > which I feel saved her life.  I don't feel like I see any
            of "you"
            > > > being able to honor and respect the healthy boundaries and/or
            > > > differences of others.  I find your attitudes, behavior  and
            > attacks
            > > > cold, offensive and disgusting.  I am not going to argue with
            > you, it
            > > > is absurd. Because of my experience with traditional medicine I
            > feel
            > > > towards them as you do towards Dr. Clark et al.  We have
            different
            > > > opinions. So be it.  I am not trying to cram mine down your
            > throat, it
            > > > is beyond me why you all can't exercise the same respect for
            > others.
            > > > This is a subject, which after my child's experience, is a sore
            > spot
            > > > for me.  It has been told that some of you have good
            intentions,
            > I am
            > > > not so sure.  You seem to me to have a mean and vindictive
            > streak.  I
            > > > will not answer anymore of your messages.  End of story.
            > > >
            > > > Monica Pignotti wrote:
            > > >
            > > >> --- In DrClark@egroups.com, Linda Blair <lblair@d...> wrote:
            > > >> >Sorry Monica, this is registered as a NON-COGNITIVE bio-
            feedback
            > > >> >machine.  Now go do your homework and figure out what this
            > means.
            > > >> >Also, wrong number!   Woops!
            > > >>
            > > >> No Linda, it's time for you to do YOUR homework and look at the
            > > >> actual official FDA documents which are up on the web at the
            > site I
            > > >> mentioned, rather than what you have been told.  What I quoted
            > were
            > > >> not my own words -- they came directly from an official FDA
            > document
            > > >>
            > > >> that I got at their own website, so if you have a problem with
            > that
            > > >> and think the FDA is in error, I suggest you contact the FDA. 
            > Note
            > > >> that it is NOT at all approved for curing cancer or any other
            > > >> disease
            > > >> and there is no research that shows that it does this.
            > > >>
            > > >> Monica Pignotti
            > > >>
            > > >> Learn more from:
            > > >> http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/
            > > >> http://home.online.no/~huldakli/
            > > >> http://www.drclark.net/
            > > >> http://home.online.no/~dusan/
            > > >>
            > > >> Community email addresses:
            > > >> Post message: DrClark@onelist.com
            > > >> Subscribe:    DrClark-subscribe@onelist.com
            > > >> Unsubscribe:  DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > > >> Community URL addresses:
            > > >> http://egroups.com/group/DrClark
            > > >> Subscription URL: http://egroups.com/subscribe/DrClark
            > > >> To unsubscribe, send blank message to this e-mail address
            > > >> DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > > >> To subscribe: DrClark-subscribe@onelist.com
            > > >> List Archives: http://egroups.com/messages/DrClark
            > > >



            Learn more from:
            http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/
            http://home.online.no/~huldakli/
            http://www.drclark.net/
            http://home.online.no/~dusan/

            Community email addresses:
            Post message: DrClark@onelist.com
            Subscribe:    DrClark-subscribe@onelist.com
            Unsubscribe:  DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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          • Heidrun Beer
            On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:34:14 -0500, Monica Pignotti wrote in ... That is true. But criticism of Dr. Clark s methods is plainly and simply off topic on a list
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 9, 2001
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              On Tue, 9 Jan 2001 14:34:14 -0500, Monica Pignotti wrote in
              <000a01c07a73$2730a120$8e344f0c@oemcomputer>:


              >I also just found out today that there is a very recently formed e-groups discussion on Hulda Clark www.egroups.com/subscribe/BashHulda where people are free to discuss and question whatever they see fit to question. It's really a shame, though, that it was necessary to create such a forum, rather than allowing an open discussion of both the pros and cons, on this list. The moderators seem to think that people here need to be "protected" from us, but my experience has been that there is nothing more harmful to people, than isolating themselves from any dissenting opinions. Just look at Jonestown and Waco for examples.



              That is true. But criticism of Dr. Clark's methods is plainly and
              simply off topic on a list which deals with the application of
              her methods and exchange of experiences with her methods.

              You are very right with your observation that sick people are
              vulnerable. They are even more vulnerable when they are let down
              by established authorities and have to find their own way
              through the complicated field of human health without being experts
              in any way. Criticism might discourage them just enough to lose
              the battle for their lives!!!

              I know what I am talking about. I lost my mother to cancer in
              the "care" of mainstream medicine - and won back my beloved husband
              whose cancer was healed with the methods of Dr. Clark! I still had
              my mother's collection of magic cristals and useless wonder drugs
              fresh in my memory, and yet we tried Dr. Clark's methods, simply
              because they made sense. But if I had not been untypically stubborn,
              the doubts of certain people around me might have caused me to
              give up too early and lose the dearest person of my existence!

              I believe that Dr. Clark is extremely fair by giving ALL the details
              about her theories and treatments into the patient's hands, so that
              they can build their own devices at very low cost and make their own
              medicines following her instructions.

              Of course if somebody wants her personal testing and treatment,
              she has to charge decent money, or she would not be able to finance
              her ongoing research and activities. I think you know this situation
              very well, as you are a practitioner yourself. But with her
              instructions a patient actually can help himself, or a dedicated
              caregiver can do it for him.

              I absolutely admire her latest book on advanced cancers. From
              dentistry to the art of reading a blood-test she explains everything
              to the reader. After reading this, you are an educated patient
              and nobody can fool you anymore.

              Of course she makes it so simple to get (and stay!) healthy, that
              the multi-million dollar drug industry would go broke if everybody
              applied her methods. And as they own the media and universities,
              Dr. Clark will continue to have a hard time, at least for some
              more decades.

              Think of Dr. Semmelweis, who found out about the reasons why so
              many ladies died after childbirth. His findings are one of the
              most important foundations of modern medicine today, but did he
              get fair treatment and an objective analysis of his claims?
              No - he faced pretty much the same antagonism as Dr. Clark
              does today.

              I believe that a field study on a large sample of volunteers should be
              done in some big cancer hospital. This would show the validity
              or non-validity of her research much better than any discussion
              of theories or war of opinions.




              Best,



              Heidrun Beer

              Workgroup for Fundamental Spiritual Research and Mental Training
              http://www.sgmt.at
            • V. Richter
              Monica, Why so selective about which moderator s rules you follow? Another rule is take off-list your off-topic subjects. Why are you here and thus your
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 9, 2001
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                Monica,

                Why so selective about which moderator's rules you follow? Another rule is
                take off-list your off-topic subjects. "Why are you here" and thus your
                responce to it is off-topic. I agree that the post, preceding the
                reiteration of the rules, concerning you was off-topic, and therefore not
                appropriate. Do you believe two wrongs make a right?

                Vince Richter


                >
                >I was respecting the modertors rules not allowing any critical comments on
                >this list, but Kinabaloo opened up the topic, by addressing a question to
                >me, so I have a right to answer.
                >
                >Dear kinabaloo@... ((I have to address you by your e-mail address
                >because you would not state your name),

                _________________________________________________________________
                Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
              • Monica Pignotti
                ... Why are you addressing this to me, Vince? As you can see, kinabaloo started a thread with my name on it. Since she started the thread, it is decent
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 9, 2001
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                  --- In DrClark@egroups.com, "V. Richter" <new_man85@h...> wrote:
                  > Monica,
                  >
                  >Why so selective about which moderator's rules you follow? Another
                  >rule is take off-list your off-topic subjects. "Why are you here"
                  >and thus your responce to it is off-topic. I agree that the post,
                  >preceding the reiteration of the rules, concerning you was off-
                  >topic, and therefore not appropriate. Do you believe two wrongs
                  >make a right?

                  Why are you addressing this to me, Vince? As you can see, kinabaloo
                  started a thread with my name on it. Since she started the thread,
                  it is decent netiquette anywhere I have ever been, to give the person
                  to whom it was addressed the right to respond. Your request to take
                  this backchannel should have been addressed to kinabaloo, not I.

                  Monica Pignotti

                  > >
                  > >I was respecting the modertors rules not allowing any critical
                  comments on
                  > >this list, but Kinabaloo opened up the topic, by addressing a
                  question to
                  > >me, so I have a right to answer.
                  > >
                  > >Dear kinabaloo@a... ((I have to address you by your e-mail address
                  > >because you would not state your name),
                  >
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                • Monica Pignotti
                  Hello Heidrun, ... I realize that the moderators have made it off topic, but the question I am asking is, ~should~ it be? When someone is engaging in any kind
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 9, 2001
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                    Hello Heidrun,

                    You wrote:
                    > That is true. But criticism of Dr. Clark's methods is plainly and
                    > simply off topic on a list which deals with the application of
                    > her methods and exchange of experiences with her methods.

                    I realize that the moderators have made it off topic, but the
                    question I am asking is, ~should~ it be? When someone is engaging in
                    any kind of treatment, be it traditional or alternative, it is very
                    important to be able to challenge and ask questions. What if a
                    traditional MD was running a patient discussion group and forbade
                    anyone in the discussion group to challenge or criticize the
                    treatment? People here would be up in arms about this, and
                    rightfully so. Why should the standard be any different when an
                    alternative treatment is being discussed?

                    > You are very right with your observation that sick people are
                    > vulnerable. They are even more vulnerable when they are let down
                    > by established authorities and have to find their own way
                    > through the complicated field of human health without being experts
                    > in any way. Criticism might discourage them just enough to lose
                    > the battle for their lives!!!

                    The truth will hold up under questioning and will win out in the end.
                    People need to learn to take responsibility for their lives and their
                    health, and this means understanding all points of view.

                    > I know what I am talking about. I lost my mother to cancer in
                    > the "care" of mainstream medicine - and won back my beloved husband
                    > whose cancer was healed with the methods of Dr. Clark! I still had
                    > my mother's collection of magic cristals and useless wonder drugs
                    > fresh in my memory, and yet we tried Dr. Clark's methods, simply
                    > because they made sense. But if I had not been untypically stubborn,
                    > the doubts of certain people around me might have caused me to
                    > give up too early and lose the dearest person of my existence!

                    >I believe that Dr. Clark is extremely fair by giving ALL the details
                    >about her theories and treatments into the patient's hands, so that
                    >they can build their own devices at very low cost and make their own
                    >medicines following her instructions.

                    I don't doubt that Dr. Clark is a good person with good intentions
                    who really believes in what she is doing. The problem I have is with
                    certain people around her are ruling with a very heavy hand and
                    cutting off any criticism or questioning.

                    > Of course if somebody wants her personal testing and treatment,
                    > she has to charge decent money, or she would not be able to finance
                    > her ongoing research and activities. I think you know this situation
                    > very well, as you are a practitioner yourself. But with her
                    > instructions a patient actually can help himself, or a dedicated
                    > caregiver can do it for him.

                    > I absolutely admire her latest book on advanced cancers. From
                    > dentistry to the art of reading a blood-test she explains everything
                    > to the reader. After reading this, you are an educated patient
                    > and nobody can fool you anymore.
                    >
                    > Of course she makes it so simple to get (and stay!) healthy, that
                    > the multi-million dollar drug industry would go broke if everybody
                    > applied her methods. And as they own the media and universities,
                    > Dr. Clark will continue to have a hard time, at least for some
                    > more decades.
                    >
                    > Think of Dr. Semmelweis, who found out about the reasons why so
                    > many ladies died after childbirth. His findings are one of the
                    > most important foundations of modern medicine today, but did he
                    > get fair treatment and an objective analysis of his claims?
                    > No - he faced pretty much the same antagonism as Dr. Clark
                    > does today.

                    No doubt, there have been real pioneers that have been persecuted and
                    ignored by the establishment during their lifetimes. This does not
                    mean, however, that everyone who faces antagonism from the medical
                    establishment is a misunderstood genius that has been unfairly
                    treated. My position on this is that just because someone is
                    rejected by the medical establishment, that doesn't automatically
                    mean that they're wrong, but it also doesn't prove that they're right.

                    >I believe that a field study on a large sample of volunteers should
                    >be done in some big cancer hospital. This would show the validity
                    > or non-validity of her research much better than any discussion
                    > of theories or war of opinions.

                    I agree that there ought to be research done on this. When someone
                    is making a big claim, such as the claim that they have the cure for
                    all diseases, this needs to be proven. Unless this happens, we
                    cannot know for sure what helped a person who recovered from cancer
                    after using Hulda Clark's methods, since most people use multiple
                    approaches -- there's no way to know which one did it.

                    Monica Pignotti
                  • JDrew63929@aol.com
                    I also just found out today that there is a very recently formed e-groups discussion on Hulda Clark www.egroups.com/subscribe/BashHulda where people are free
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 9, 2001
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                      I also just found out today that there is a very recently formed e-groups
                      discussion on Hulda Clark www.egroups.com/subscribe/BashHulda where people
                      are free to discuss and question whatever they see fit to question. >>

                      Then go there and enjoy yourself. Kindly quit wasting our time. I for one am
                      not into bashing people.

                      Jan
                    • Franklin Miller
                      OK folks, All jokes aside now, please.I have a 9year old that has a kidney stone. Has passed blood.Tha doctor says if he doesn t pass it they will have to get
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 10, 2001
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                        OK folks, All jokes aside now, please.I have a 9year old that has a kidney
                        stone. Has passed blood.Tha doctor says if he doesn't pass it they will have
                        to get it!,.We all know what that means.I told his stepfather(my son)about
                        Dr Clarks kidney cleanse that I am in the process of doing.I explained about
                        the hydrangea root dissolving the stone.I read in )Tyler's Honest Herbal)
                        that hydrangea root does not.Who knows? Please answere.!!Dr Clarks
                        gallbladder cleanse saved my gallbladder and I want to believe her on this
                        also.Is Dr Clarks kidney cleanse safe for the 9 year old or should he just
                        take the hydrangea root?for how long? thank you Frank Miller
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <JDrew63929@...>
                        To: <DrClark@egroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 11:35 PM
                        Subject: Re: [DrClark] Monica


                        >
                        > I also just found out today that there is a very recently formed e-groups
                        > discussion on Hulda Clark www.egroups.com/subscribe/BashHulda where people
                        > are free to discuss and question whatever they see fit to question. >>
                        >
                        > Then go there and enjoy yourself. Kindly quit wasting our time. I for one
                        am
                        > not into bashing people.
                        >
                        > Jan
                        >
                        > Learn more from:
                        > http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/
                        > http://home.online.no/~huldakli/
                        > http://www.drclark.net/
                        > http://home.online.no/~dusan/
                        >
                        > Community email addresses:
                        > Post message: DrClark@onelist.com
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                        > Community URL addresses:
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                        > To unsubscribe, send blank message to this e-mail address
                        DrClark-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • JDrew63929@aol.com
                        http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/v6i3/v6i3a5.html Just thought you might be interested in what Monica is promoting. She went to the health newsgroup and whined
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 15, 2001
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                          http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/v6i3/v6i3a5.html

                          Just thought you might be interested in what Monica is promoting. She went to
                          the health newsgroup and whined because she was booted off this list. She
                          came on with a *YOUR NOT GOING TO SHUT ME UP*. All the debunkers were all for
                          bashing Hulda, then a poster there learned she was promoting this. Now she is
                          the one who is getting bashed.

                          Jan
                        • leoelfie@telusplanet.net
                          I am all in favour of Clark bashers having their own list, and Clark supporters having theirs. I wonder how she is coping with her own medicine. Leo ... She
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 15, 2001
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                            I am all in favour of Clark bashers having their own list, and Clark
                            supporters having theirs.

                            I wonder how she is coping with her own medicine.
                            Leo
                            --------------------------------------
                            --- In DrClark@egroups.com, JDrew63929@a... wrote:
                            > http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/v6i3/v6i3a5.html
                            >
                            > Just thought you might be interested in what Monica is promoting.
                            She went to
                            > the health newsgroup and whined because she was booted off this
                            list. She
                            > came on with a *YOUR NOT GOING TO SHUT ME UP*. All the debunkers
                            were all for
                            > bashing Hulda, then a poster there learned she was promoting this.
                            Now she is
                            > the one who is getting bashed.
                            >
                            > Jan
                          • JDMann74@earthlink.net
                            I tried reading through the archives, but I don t have the time. I am only familiar with Dr. Clark s stuff from excerpts I have read from sites online (I can t
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 15, 2001
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                              I tried reading through the archives, but I don't have the time. I am only
                              familiar with Dr. Clark's stuff from excerpts I have read from sites online
                              (I can't afford to buy her book right now) but I am curious (as someone with
                              backround in iridology) if anyone has documented iris changes as a result of
                              zapper usage. I am quite familiar, and have used protocols like hers for
                              parasite, liver cleanses so I seem to be on the same page there. I am
                              curious if the electrical activity of her "zapper" (I really like that
                              name!) has the potential for negative interaction with any homeopathics or
                              herbs that work solely on the basis of their polarity. One of my clients had
                              questions and I wasn't sure how to answer. Thanks.
                            • JDMann74@earthlink.net
                              I forgot one other question, can the actions of the zapper mask signs in the iris since it is electrical in nature and can conceivably interact with the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 15, 2001
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                                I forgot one other question, can the actions of the zapper mask signs in the
                                iris since it is electrical in nature and can conceivably interact with the
                                nervous system that provides information to the iris? If no one here knows
                                the answer I will be happy of someone could tell me where to go to find it
                                out.

                                Thanks Again!


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: JDMann74@... [mailto:JDMann74@...]
                                Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 23:07
                                To: DrClark@egroups.com
                                Subject: [DrClark] Interactions?



                                I tried reading through the archives, but I don't have the time. I am only
                                familiar with Dr. Clark's stuff from excerpts I have read from sites online
                                (I can't afford to buy her book right now) but I am curious (as someone with
                                backround in iridology) if anyone has documented iris changes as a result of
                                zapper usage. I am quite familiar, and have used protocols like hers for
                                parasite, liver cleanses so I seem to be on the same page there. I am
                                curious if the electrical activity of her "zapper" (I really like that
                                name!) has the potential for negative interaction with any homeopathics or
                                herbs that work solely on the basis of their polarity. One of my clients had
                                questions and I wasn't sure how to answer. Thanks.


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