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Re: Nord Modular ring modulator

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  • selfoscillate
    the blacet klangwerk ? ... 133 ... has ... to ... extremely ... in ... adding
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 1, 2004
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      the blacet klangwerk ?


      --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...> wrote:
      > Just remembered, the Buchla 285 balanced modulator does this. Any
      > others?
      >
      > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...> wrote:
      > > By the way, I forgot to mention that my example below requires a
      > DC
      > > coupled ring modulator, so it will not work with the A114, though
      > it
      > > works with a PAIA 9710. It might also work with the Doepfer A-
      133
      > > Polarizer, though I don't have this module yet and haven't tried
      > > it. If anybody has a 133 one and feels like trying the patch,
      > > please let me know if it works.
      > >
      > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...> wrote:
      > > > The recent poll on the Nord Modular style clocked random
      > generator
      > > > got me thinking about the Nord Modular's ring modulator. It
      has
      > > an
      > > > additional control that varies the modulation from ring to AM
      to
      > > > none, which can also be "voltage" controlled. This is
      extremely
      > > > useful and I don't know of an analog ring modulator that does
      > this
      > > > out of the box.
      > > >
      > > > I have been trying to do something similar using existing
      > > modules.
      > > > It is my understanding that ring modulation differs from AM in
      > > that
      > > > the carrier is inverted when the modulator is negative. Also,
      in
      > > the
      > > > Nord, when the control is zeroed and there is no modulation, it
      > > > simply passes the carrier unaltered.
      > > >
      > > > So, to model the nord's ring modulator, I have started by
      adding
      > > an
      > > > offset to the modulator so that it is all positive (or, better,
      > > > negative), then attenuating the signal with a VCA (this
      > > attenuation
      > > > is the "ring to am to nothing" control) then adding another
      > offset
      > > > to make the modulator AC again when the VCA is full open, and
      > > > sending that signal to the ring modulator's modulator input.
      > > >
      > > > Is this correct? Does anybody have an easier way of
      > accomplishing
      > > > this same end? Does anybody know of an analog ring modulator
      > that
      > > > does this without outboard stuff? Hey, could this be an idea
      > for
      > > a
      > > > new module?
    • ethanzer0
      ... You can achieve this with some trickery on an Arp 2600. Ethan
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 1, 2004
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        --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate"
        <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
        >
        > the blacet klangwerk ?
        >
        >

        You can achieve this with some "trickery" on an Arp 2600.

        Ethan
      • shm1400
        I just looked at the Blacet site, and it doesn t look like the Klangwerk has a ring-am-pass control. But it does have a switch to make it DC coupled, so it
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 1, 2004
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          I just looked at the Blacet site, and it doesn't look like the
          Klangwerk has a "ring-am-pass" control. But it does have a switch
          to make it DC coupled, so it could be used in place of the PAIA in
          my original example.
          Too bad, since the Blacet could certainly be squeezed into a Doepfer-
          style face plate. Not a viable option with the Buchla or Serge.

          --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate"
          <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
          >
          > the blacet klangwerk ?
          >
          >
          > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...> wrote:
          > > Just remembered, the Buchla 285 balanced modulator does this.
          Any
          > > others?
          > >
          > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...>
          wrote:
          > > > By the way, I forgot to mention that my example below requires
          a
          > > DC
          > > > coupled ring modulator, so it will not work with the A114,
          though
          > > it
          > > > works with a PAIA 9710. It might also work with the Doepfer A-
          > 133
          > > > Polarizer, though I don't have this module yet and haven't
          tried
          > > > it. If anybody has a 133 one and feels like trying the patch,
          > > > please let me know if it works.
          > > >
          > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...>
          wrote:
          > > > > The recent poll on the Nord Modular style clocked random
          > > generator
          > > > > got me thinking about the Nord Modular's ring modulator. It
          > has
          > > > an
          > > > > additional control that varies the modulation from ring to
          AM
          > to
          > > > > none, which can also be "voltage" controlled. This is
          > extremely
          > > > > useful and I don't know of an analog ring modulator that
          does
          > > this
          > > > > out of the box.
          > > > >
          > > > > I have been trying to do something similar using existing
          > > > modules.
          > > > > It is my understanding that ring modulation differs from AM
          in
          > > > that
          > > > > the carrier is inverted when the modulator is negative.
          Also,
          > in
          > > > the
          > > > > Nord, when the control is zeroed and there is no modulation,
          it
          > > > > simply passes the carrier unaltered.
          > > > >
          > > > > So, to model the nord's ring modulator, I have started by
          > adding
          > > > an
          > > > > offset to the modulator so that it is all positive (or,
          better,
          > > > > negative), then attenuating the signal with a VCA (this
          > > > attenuation
          > > > > is the "ring to am to nothing" control) then adding another
          > > offset
          > > > > to make the modulator AC again when the VCA is full open,
          and
          > > > > sending that signal to the ring modulator's modulator input.
          > > > >
          > > > > Is this correct? Does anybody have an easier way of
          > > accomplishing
          > > > > this same end? Does anybody know of an analog ring
          modulator
          > > that
          > > > > does this without outboard stuff? Hey, could this be an
          idea
          > > for
          > > > a
          > > > > new module?
        • selfoscillate
          yes right, the blacet is switchable only. i haven t read the email properly. i just came out of vacation and had to read around 200 emails, sorry ;-) best
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 2, 2004
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            yes right, the blacet is switchable only.
            i haven't read the email properly.
            i just came out of vacation and had to read
            around 200 emails, sorry ;-)

            best wishes

            ingo


            --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...> wrote:
            > I just looked at the Blacet site, and it doesn't look like the
            > Klangwerk has a "ring-am-pass" control. But it does have a switch
            > to make it DC coupled, so it could be used in place of the PAIA in
            > my original example.
            > Too bad, since the Blacet could certainly be squeezed into a
            Doepfer-
            > style face plate. Not a viable option with the Buchla or Serge.
            >
            > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate"
            > <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > the blacet klangwerk ?
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...> wrote:
            > > > Just remembered, the Buchla 285 balanced modulator does this.
            > Any
            > > > others?
            > > >
            > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...>
            > wrote:
            > > > > By the way, I forgot to mention that my example below
            requires
            > a
            > > > DC
            > > > > coupled ring modulator, so it will not work with the A114,
            > though
            > > > it
            > > > > works with a PAIA 9710. It might also work with the Doepfer
            A-
            > > 133
            > > > > Polarizer, though I don't have this module yet and haven't
            > tried
            > > > > it. If anybody has a 133 one and feels like trying the
            patch,
            > > > > please let me know if it works.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...>
            > wrote:
            > > > > > The recent poll on the Nord Modular style clocked random
            > > > generator
            > > > > > got me thinking about the Nord Modular's ring modulator.
            It
            > > has
            > > > > an
            > > > > > additional control that varies the modulation from ring to
            > AM
            > > to
            > > > > > none, which can also be "voltage" controlled. This is
            > > extremely
            > > > > > useful and I don't know of an analog ring modulator that
            > does
            > > > this
            > > > > > out of the box.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I have been trying to do something similar using existing
            > > > > modules.
            > > > > > It is my understanding that ring modulation differs from AM
            > in
            > > > > that
            > > > > > the carrier is inverted when the modulator is negative.
            > Also,
            > > in
            > > > > the
            > > > > > Nord, when the control is zeroed and there is no
            modulation,
            > it
            > > > > > simply passes the carrier unaltered.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > So, to model the nord's ring modulator, I have started by
            > > adding
            > > > > an
            > > > > > offset to the modulator so that it is all positive (or,
            > better,
            > > > > > negative), then attenuating the signal with a VCA (this
            > > > > attenuation
            > > > > > is the "ring to am to nothing" control) then adding another
            > > > offset
            > > > > > to make the modulator AC again when the VCA is full open,
            > and
            > > > > > sending that signal to the ring modulator's modulator input.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Is this correct? Does anybody have an easier way of
            > > > accomplishing
            > > > > > this same end? Does anybody know of an analog ring
            > modulator
            > > > that
            > > > > > does this without outboard stuff? Hey, could this be an
            > idea
            > > > for
            > > > > a
            > > > > > new module?
          • shm1400
            Not to worry. However, isn t it ironic that we are now discussing ways to use an analog modular to model a digital model of an analog modular? Can you say
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 2, 2004
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              Not to worry. However, isn't it ironic that we are now discussing
              ways to use an analog modular to model a digital model of an analog
              modular? Can you say that five times really fast?

              SHM

              --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate"
              <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
              >
              > yes right, the blacet is switchable only.
              > i haven't read the email properly.
              > i just came out of vacation and had to read
              > around 200 emails, sorry ;-)
              >
              > best wishes
              >
              > ingo
              >
              >
              > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...> wrote:
              > > I just looked at the Blacet site, and it doesn't look like the
              > > Klangwerk has a "ring-am-pass" control. But it does have a
              switch
              > > to make it DC coupled, so it could be used in place of the PAIA
              in
              > > my original example.
              > > Too bad, since the Blacet could certainly be squeezed into a
              > Doepfer-
              > > style face plate. Not a viable option with the Buchla or Serge.
              > >
              > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "selfoscillate"
              > > <synaptic_music@y...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > the blacet klangwerk ?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...>
              wrote:
              > > > > Just remembered, the Buchla 285 balanced modulator does
              this.
              > > Any
              > > > > others?
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400" <shm14@h...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > > > By the way, I forgot to mention that my example below
              > requires
              > > a
              > > > > DC
              > > > > > coupled ring modulator, so it will not work with the A114,
              > > though
              > > > > it
              > > > > > works with a PAIA 9710. It might also work with the
              Doepfer
              > A-
              > > > 133
              > > > > > Polarizer, though I don't have this module yet and haven't
              > > tried
              > > > > > it. If anybody has a 133 one and feels like trying the
              > patch,
              > > > > > please let me know if it works.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "shm1400"
              <shm14@h...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > > > > The recent poll on the Nord Modular style clocked random
              > > > > generator
              > > > > > > got me thinking about the Nord Modular's ring
              modulator.
              > It
              > > > has
              > > > > > an
              > > > > > > additional control that varies the modulation from ring
              to
              > > AM
              > > > to
              > > > > > > none, which can also be "voltage" controlled. This is
              > > > extremely
              > > > > > > useful and I don't know of an analog ring modulator that
              > > does
              > > > > this
              > > > > > > out of the box.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > I have been trying to do something similar using
              existing
              > > > > > modules.
              > > > > > > It is my understanding that ring modulation differs from
              AM
              > > in
              > > > > > that
              > > > > > > the carrier is inverted when the modulator is negative.
              > > Also,
              > > > in
              > > > > > the
              > > > > > > Nord, when the control is zeroed and there is no
              > modulation,
              > > it
              > > > > > > simply passes the carrier unaltered.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > So, to model the nord's ring modulator, I have started
              by
              > > > adding
              > > > > > an
              > > > > > > offset to the modulator so that it is all positive (or,
              > > better,
              > > > > > > negative), then attenuating the signal with a VCA (this
              > > > > > attenuation
              > > > > > > is the "ring to am to nothing" control) then adding
              another
              > > > > offset
              > > > > > > to make the modulator AC again when the VCA is full
              open,
              > > and
              > > > > > > sending that signal to the ring modulator's modulator
              input.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > Is this correct? Does anybody have an easier way of
              > > > > accomplishing
              > > > > > > this same end? Does anybody know of an analog ring
              > > modulator
              > > > > that
              > > > > > > does this without outboard stuff? Hey, could this be an
              > > idea
              > > > > for
              > > > > > a
              > > > > > > new module?
            • Florian Anwander
              Hi shm ... I can, but I fear you woun t be able to read it at this speed: ways-tusn-anlg-modlr-t-mdladgtal-mdl-fn-anlg-modlr ;-))) Florian
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 4, 2004
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                Hi shm

                > Not to worry. However, isn't it ironic that we are now discussing
                > ways to use an analog modular to model a digital model of an analog
                > modular? Can you say that five times really fast?
                I can, but I fear you woun't be able to read it at this speed:
                "ways-tusn-anlg-modlr-t-mdladgtal-mdl-fn-anlg-modlr"

                ;-)))

                Florian
              • Paul Schulz
                Hi folks, Our beloved analog synths have been simulated long enough by the digital ones, so now it´s time to strike back. Let us call this new synthesis
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 4, 2004
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                  Hi folks,

                  Our beloved analog synths have been simulated long enough by the digital
                  ones, so now it´s time to strike back.
                  Let us call this new synthesis method DIGITAL MODELING ;-)

                  cheers,
                  Paul


                  Florian Anwander wrote:

                  > Hi shm
                  >
                  > > Not to worry. However, isn't it ironic that we are now discussing
                  > > ways to use an analog modular to model a digital model of an analog
                  > > modular? Can you say that five times really fast?
                  > I can, but I fear you woun't be able to read it at this speed:
                  > "ways-tusn-anlg-modlr-t-mdladgtal-mdl-fn-anlg-modlr"
                  >
                  > ;-)))
                  >
                  > Florian




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