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Fwd: doepfer's comments about the TKB.

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  • Bakis Sirros
    ... ===== Bakis Sirros Parallel Worlds / Polariton Athens-Greece [Doepfer_a100] group owner http://www.rubber.gr http://www.ward12.com
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 6, 2003
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      --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@...> wrote:
      > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@...>
      > To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@...>
      > Subject: Please forward ...
      > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:50:54 +0100
      >
      >
      > > Maybe its because the current version of the TKB
      > received an
      > > unenthusiastic response at trade shows. I still
      > wonder if the
      > > keyboard appearance might have caused confusion:
      > it may have looked
      > > to many like a cheap alternative to a real
      > keyboard.
      >
      > This is not the main reason. Our biggest problem -
      > as mentioned several
      > times - are the many different, partly even
      > contradictory suggestions (e.g.
      > number of potentiometer rows, MIDI features,
      > analog/digital sequencer
      > features, mono/polyphony, plates like a "normal"
      > keyboard or simply equal
      > shaped plates and so on ....).
      > In contrast to other projects we see no clear line
      > which features (or even
      > non-features, e.g. we received messages from several
      > customers that they
      > will not buy the TKB if it will include MIDI or if
      > it will look like a
      > normal keyboard or if it will include a digital
      > sequencer or ...).
      >
      > There are no technical but more "political" problems
      > due to the many
      > different opinions about the TKB. We have a feeling
      > that many customers
      > believe that their suggestion is the only right one
      > and we cannot estimate
      > if they will order a TBK too if our version does not
      > match their ideas.
      >
      > But I think that we will manufacture the TKB next
      > year knowing that many
      > customers will be disappointed as the TKB will not
      > match their expectations.
      > And of course we hope that the sales will be
      > sufficient to cover the
      > development costs.
      >
      > Best wishes
      > Dieter Doepfer
      >
      > P.S. I'm not in the company from Nov 07 - 10, 2003.
      >
      >
      >


      =====
      Bakis Sirros
      Parallel Worlds / Polariton
      Athens-Greece
      [Doepfer_a100] group owner
      http://www.rubber.gr
      http://www.ward12.com

      __________________________________
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    • ringmod45
      Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer, The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and function wise, idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one wants, will be able
      Message 2 of 13 , Nov 7, 2003
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        Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,

        The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and function wise,
        idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one wants, will be able
        to be implemented.

        Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed Doepfer TKB is
        modelled after the two of the most sought after and expressive
        analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219 Touch Keyboard and the
        Serge TKB. Here are the url's;

        http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html

        http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm

        These are features and functions the proposed Doepfer TKB is based
        upon. This the foundation from which to build upon and not to
        subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a Good Job so far,
        it just needs to be tweaked some more.

        The pressure voltage, derived by capacitance-activated touch plates
        or keys, is the most natural and expressive control in electrical
        terms. It is very similar to playing a string instrument. It is
        direct and immediate, finger to touch plate, unlike an organ manual,
        finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger contact.

        The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is bring elements of the
        above mentioned controllers and not to have a organ style manual
        dictate how it should be or perform. There are very few of these
        controllers around for people to make remarks or opine ideas on how
        they should be built, so it should be modelled from the originals
        with input from people who have used and understand them.

        The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then adapted to an organ style
        manual. Here is the url,

        http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
        http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg

        Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is only feasible and
        logical to have midi onboard. Building the proposed Doepfer TKB,
        Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It should be modular in
        its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and sequencer functions
        and not the other way around.

        To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check some of Charles
        Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the url,

        http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A

        Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3 are pretty good
        indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.

        Regards,
        RM


        > --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@d...> wrote:
        > > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...>
        > > To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@y...>
        > > Subject: Please forward ...
        > > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:50:54 +0100
        > >
        > >
        > > > Maybe its because the current version of the TKB
        > > received an
        > > > unenthusiastic response at trade shows. I still
        > > wonder if the
        > > > keyboard appearance might have caused confusion:
        > > it may have looked
        > > > to many like a cheap alternative to a real
        > > keyboard.
        > >
        > > This is not the main reason. Our biggest problem -
        > > as mentioned several
        > > times - are the many different, partly even
        > > contradictory suggestions (e.g.
        > > number of potentiometer rows, MIDI features,
        > > analog/digital sequencer
        > > features, mono/polyphony, plates like a "normal"
        > > keyboard or simply equal
        > > shaped plates and so on ....).
        > > In contrast to other projects we see no clear line
        > > which features (or even
        > > non-features, e.g. we received messages from several
        > > customers that they
        > > will not buy the TKB if it will include MIDI or if
        > > it will look like a
        > > normal keyboard or if it will include a digital
        > > sequencer or ...).


        > > > > Best wishes
        > > Dieter Doepfer
        > >
      • Bakis Sirros
        hello ringmod, many thanks for your info! i,too,beleive that the doepfer TKB should have all the features that are proposed in the TKB webpage,at least.dieter
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 7, 2003
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          hello ringmod,
          many thanks for your info!
          i,too,beleive that the doepfer TKB should have all the
          features that are proposed in the TKB webpage,at
          least.dieter should NOT subtract features,only ADD,if
          possible.and i agree that touch plates are great!MIDI
          is great too!the TKB can have cv/gate outs and midi
          out.what's the problem with that?
          doepfer,please,give us the TKB!
          bakis.



          --- ringmod45 <ringmod45@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,
          >
          > The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and
          > function wise,
          > idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one
          > wants, will be able
          > to be implemented.
          >
          > Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed
          > Doepfer TKB is
          > modelled after the two of the most sought after and
          > expressive
          > analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219 Touch
          > Keyboard and the
          > Serge TKB. Here are the url's;
          >
          >
          http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html
          >
          > http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
          >
          > These are features and functions the proposed
          > Doepfer TKB is based
          > upon. This the foundation from which to build upon
          > and not to
          > subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a
          > Good Job so far,
          > it just needs to be tweaked some more.
          >
          > The pressure voltage, derived by
          > capacitance-activated touch plates
          > or keys, is the most natural and expressive control
          > in electrical
          > terms. It is very similar to playing a string
          > instrument. It is
          > direct and immediate, finger to touch plate, unlike
          > an organ manual,
          > finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger
          > contact.
          >
          > The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is bring
          > elements of the
          > above mentioned controllers and not to have a organ
          > style manual
          > dictate how it should be or perform. There are very
          > few of these
          > controllers around for people to make remarks or
          > opine ideas on how
          > they should be built, so it should be modelled from
          > the originals
          > with input from people who have used and understand
          > them.
          >
          > The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then adapted
          > to an organ style
          > manual. Here is the url,
          >
          > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
          >
          http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg
          >
          > Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is only
          > feasible and
          > logical to have midi onboard. Building the proposed
          > Doepfer TKB,
          > Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It should
          > be modular in
          > its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and
          > sequencer functions
          > and not the other way around.
          >
          > To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check
          > some of Charles
          > Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the url,
          >
          > http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A
          >
          > Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3 are
          > pretty good
          > indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.
          >
          > Regards,
          > RM
          >
          >
          > > --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@d...> wrote:
          > > > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...>
          > > > To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@y...>
          > > > Subject: Please forward ...
          > > > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:50:54 +0100
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > > Maybe its because the current version of the
          > TKB
          > > > received an
          > > > > unenthusiastic response at trade shows. I
          > still
          > > > wonder if the
          > > > > keyboard appearance might have caused
          > confusion:
          > > > it may have looked
          > > > > to many like a cheap alternative to a real
          > > > keyboard.
          > > >
          > > > This is not the main reason. Our biggest problem
          > -
          > > > as mentioned several
          > > > times - are the many different, partly even
          > > > contradictory suggestions (e.g.
          > > > number of potentiometer rows, MIDI features,
          > > > analog/digital sequencer
          > > > features, mono/polyphony, plates like a "normal"
          > > > keyboard or simply equal
          > > > shaped plates and so on ....).
          > > > In contrast to other projects we see no clear
          > line
          > > > which features (or even
          > > > non-features, e.g. we received messages from
          > several
          > > > customers that they
          > > > will not buy the TKB if it will include MIDI or
          > if
          > > > it will look like a
          > > > normal keyboard or if it will include a digital
          > > > sequencer or ...).
          >
          >
          > > > > > Best wishes
          > > > Dieter Doepfer
          > > >
          >
          >


          =====
          Bakis Sirros
          Parallel Worlds / Polariton
          Athens-Greece
          [Doepfer_a100] group owner
          http://www.rubber.gr
          http://www.ward12.com

          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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        • ringmod45
          ... Hi Bakis, None , whatsoever! it will only give you more interactivity with your modular and the software of your choice. It would be nice if the TKB had a
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 7, 2003
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            --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
            <synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:
            > hello ringmod,
            > many thanks for your info!
            > i,too,beleive that the doepfer TKB should have all the
            > features that are proposed in the TKB webpage,at
            > least.dieter should NOT subtract features,only ADD,if
            > possible.and i agree that touch plates are great!MIDI
            > is great too!the TKB can have cv/gate outs and midi
            > out.what's the problem with that?

            Hi Bakis,

            None , whatsoever!

            it will only give you more interactivity with your modular and the
            software of your choice.

            It would be nice if the TKB had a usb jack on it interface directly
            with a desktop or laptop computer. No More midi cables, a full
            duplex connection. It would be nice if the the tkb had a row of
            rotary encoders, oh the possibilities.

            RM




            > doepfer,please,give us the TKB!
            > bakis.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- ringmod45 <ringmod45@y...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,
            > >
            > > The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and
            > > function wise,
            > > idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one
            > > wants, will be able
            > > to be implemented.
            > >
            > > Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed
            > > Doepfer TKB is
            > > modelled after the two of the most sought after and
            > > expressive
            > > analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219 Touch
            > > Keyboard and the
            > > Serge TKB. Here are the url's;
            > >
            > >
            > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html
            > >
            > > http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
            > >
            > > These are features and functions the proposed
            > > Doepfer TKB is based
            > > upon. This the foundation from which to build upon
            > > and not to
            > > subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a
            > > Good Job so far,
            > > it just needs to be tweaked some more.
            > >
            > > The pressure voltage, derived by
            > > capacitance-activated touch plates
            > > or keys, is the most natural and expressive control
            > > in electrical
            > > terms. It is very similar to playing a string
            > > instrument. It is
            > > direct and immediate, finger to touch plate, unlike
            > > an organ manual,
            > > finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger
            > > contact.
            > >
            > > The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is bring
            > > elements of the
            > > above mentioned controllers and not to have a organ
            > > style manual
            > > dictate how it should be or perform. There are very
            > > few of these
            > > controllers around for people to make remarks or
            > > opine ideas on how
            > > they should be built, so it should be modelled from
            > > the originals
            > > with input from people who have used and understand
            > > them.
            > >
            > > The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then adapted
            > > to an organ style
            > > manual. Here is the url,
            > >
            > > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
            > >
            > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg
            > >
            > > Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is only
            > > feasible and
            > > logical to have midi onboard. Building the proposed
            > > Doepfer TKB,
            > > Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It should
            > > be modular in
            > > its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and
            > > sequencer functions
            > > and not the other way around.
            > >
            > > To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check
            > > some of Charles
            > > Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the url,
            > >
            > > http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A
            > >
            > > Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3 are
            > > pretty good
            > > indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > > RM
            > >
            > >
            > > > --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@d...> wrote:
            > > > > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...>
            > > > > To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@y...>
            > > > > Subject: Please forward ...
            > > > > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:50:54 +0100
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > > Maybe its because the current version of the
            > > TKB
            > > > > received an
            > > > > > unenthusiastic response at trade shows. I
            > > still
            > > > > wonder if the
            > > > > > keyboard appearance might have caused
            > > confusion:
            > > > > it may have looked
            > > > > > to many like a cheap alternative to a real
            > > > > keyboard.
            > > > >
            > > > > This is not the main reason. Our biggest problem
            > > -
            > > > > as mentioned several
            > > > > times - are the many different, partly even
            > > > > contradictory suggestions (e.g.
            > > > > number of potentiometer rows, MIDI features,
            > > > > analog/digital sequencer
            > > > > features, mono/polyphony, plates like a "normal"
            > > > > keyboard or simply equal
            > > > > shaped plates and so on ....).
            > > > > In contrast to other projects we see no clear
            > > line
            > > > > which features (or even
            > > > > non-features, e.g. we received messages from
            > > several
            > > > > customers that they
            > > > > will not buy the TKB if it will include MIDI or
            > > if
            > > > > it will look like a
            > > > > normal keyboard or if it will include a digital
            > > > > sequencer or ...).
            > >
            > >
            > > > > > > Best wishes
            > > > > Dieter Doepfer
            > > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > =====
            > Bakis Sirros
            > Parallel Worlds / Polariton
            > Athens-Greece
            > [Doepfer_a100] group owner
            > http://www.rubber.gr
            > http://www.ward12.com
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
            > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
          • p. hendricks
            hi all and Doepfer, I think I agree 90%, I just want a true TKB, an expressive controller. I just really don t care about midi, I don t use midi, and it seems
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 7, 2003
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              hi all and Doepfer,
              I think I agree 90%, I just want a true TKB, an expressive controller.
              I just really don't care about midi, I don't use midi, and it seems it could
              be expensive to add good enough converters to make midi functions accurate.
              perhaps not: for $30 more sure midi is a cool bonus.
              But with this argument you could add midi to many A-100 modules, so I prefer
              leaving midi out of it.
              Keep it simple. (or keep it open?) I would want it to more and faster, but I
              want about all the new modules about to come out so my budget needs to catch
              up.
              Perhaps a very basic budget version would be good to get things going and
              later after feedback based on that a deluxe model or an expander like the
              A-154). Many have not used a TKB, so what people are asking for I suspect,
              may change drastically after having even a basic version.

              many exciting modules coming out, now we need a 9 or 12 space frame/psu.
              best,
              phil


              On 11/7/03 4:08 PM, "ringmod45" <ringmod45@...> wrote:

              >
              > Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,
              >
              > The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and function wise,
              > idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one wants, will be able
              > to be implemented.
              >
              > Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed Doepfer TKB is
              > modelled after the two of the most sought after and expressive
              > analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219 Touch Keyboard and the
              > Serge TKB. Here are the url's;
              >
              > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html
              >
              > http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
              >
              > These are features and functions the proposed Doepfer TKB is based
              > upon. This the foundation from which to build upon and not to
              > subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a Good Job so far,
              > it just needs to be tweaked some more.
              >
              > The pressure voltage, derived by capacitance-activated touch plates
              > or keys, is the most natural and expressive control in electrical
              > terms. It is very similar to playing a string instrument. It is
              > direct and immediate, finger to touch plate, unlike an organ manual,
              > finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger contact.
              >
              > The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is bring elements of the
              > above mentioned controllers and not to have a organ style manual
              > dictate how it should be or perform. There are very few of these
              > controllers around for people to make remarks or opine ideas on how
              > they should be built, so it should be modelled from the originals
              > with input from people who have used and understand them.
              >
              > The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then adapted to an organ style
              > manual. Here is the url,
              >
              > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
              > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg
              >
              > Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is only feasible and
              > logical to have midi onboard. Building the proposed Doepfer TKB,
              > Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It should be modular in
              > its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and sequencer functions
              > and not the other way around.
              >
              > To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check some of Charles
              > Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the url,
              >
              > http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A
              >
              > Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3 are pretty good
              > indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.
              >
              > Regards,
            • ringmod45
              ... controller. ... Hi PH, Do you live in a 24 ppq world? Or 1 ppq world? Are you using a roland MC-4 to do pattern or song composition? Or are you a cut and
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 7, 2003
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                --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "p. hendricks" <ph@c...> wrote:
                > hi all and Doepfer,
                > I think I agree 90%, I just want a true TKB, an expressive
                controller.
                > I just really don't care about midi, I don't use midi,

                Hi PH,

                Do you live in a 24 ppq world? Or 1 ppq world? Are you using a roland
                MC-4 to do pattern or song composition? Or are you a cut and paste
                tape kinda person? No disrespect, but this seems rather limiting.

                For the last 15 or so years, i would say midi is a pretty important
                form of manipulating notes and musical structures. Unless you are
                inputting notes, step wise, a la MC-4 (which is a computer controlled
                sequencer)you are not going too far, musically speaking. It's all
                about control, The benefit of midi is the ability to edit and save
                your musical ideas.


                and it seems it could
                > be expensive to add good enough converters to make midi functions
                accurate.

                You have to understand that the proposed TKB will be microprocessor
                based to begin with, therefore with a little extra code and a few
                extra converters and proper planning, you could make it more
                functional to work with in both worlds, analogue and midi. Plus most
                of the ground work for this has been developed in one way or another
                already by Doepfer. It would cost more money to keep it strictly
                analogue. We already have analogue sources to control our modulars.
                All of these sources are very linear and static ( i.e. note length
                limitations, etc.).

                > perhaps not: for $30 more sure midi is a cool bonus.
                > But with this argument you could add midi to many A-100 modules, so
                I prefer
                > leaving midi out of it.

                That is why we have midi2cv converters. We are not talking about
                adding midi control to A100 modules, we are talking about adding midi
                control to a controller, so you can save and edit your work and
                control your analogue sounds.

                > Keep it simple. (or keep it open?) I would want it to more and
                faster, but I
                > want about all the new modules about to come out so my budget needs
                to catch
                > up.
                > Perhaps a very basic budget version would be good to get things
                going

                This has nothing to do with the proposed Doepfer TKB. A Serge TKB can
                be bought brand new for $1850.00usd for the TKB, $275.00usd for the
                power supply and $400.00usd for the Rox box enclosure, which brings
                us to a grand total of $2525.00usd for a simple 4 x 16 touch
                sequencer keyboard.This is for a simple TKB, nothing fancy. The
                Doepfer Tkb will have more features and will probably be a
                $1000.00usd cheaper or less. If you need simplicity buy a Serge TKB.

                Phil I am just looking at the more powerful possibilities, were the
                tkb to have midi implementation. With the price of laptops these days
                and the software available, the combination of both would be
                thrilling. The proposed Doepfer TKB can have the ability to do both,
                so we would benefit more from having both.

                Regards,
                RM



                and
                > later after feedback based on that a deluxe model or an expander
                like the
                > A-154). Many have not used a TKB, so what people are asking for I
                suspect,
                > may change drastically after having even a basic version
                >
                > many exciting modules coming out, now we need a 9 or 12 space
                frame/psu.
                > best,
                > phil
                >
                >
                > On 11/7/03 4:08 PM, "ringmod45" <ringmod45@y...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > > Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,
                > >
                > > The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and function wise,
                > > idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one wants, will be
                able
                > > to be implemented.
                > >
                > > Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed Doepfer TKB is
                > > modelled after the two of the most sought after and expressive
                > > analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219 Touch Keyboard and
                the
                > > Serge TKB. Here are the url's;
                > >
                > > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html
                > >
                > > http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
                > >
                > > These are features and functions the proposed Doepfer TKB is based
                > > upon. This the foundation from which to build upon and not to
                > > subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a Good Job so
                far,
                > > it just needs to be tweaked some more.
                > >
                > > The pressure voltage, derived by capacitance-activated touch
                plates
                > > or keys, is the most natural and expressive control in electrical
                > > terms. It is very similar to playing a string instrument. It is
                > > direct and immediate, finger to touch plate, unlike an organ
                manual,
                > > finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger contact.
                > >
                > > The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is bring elements of
                the
                > > above mentioned controllers and not to have a organ style manual
                > > dictate how it should be or perform. There are very few of these
                > > controllers around for people to make remarks or opine ideas on
                how
                > > they should be built, so it should be modelled from the originals
                > > with input from people who have used and understand them.
                > >
                > > The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then adapted to an organ
                style
                > > manual. Here is the url,
                > >
                > > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
                > > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg
                > >
                > > Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is only feasible and
                > > logical to have midi onboard. Building the proposed Doepfer TKB,
                > > Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It should be modular in
                > > its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and sequencer functions
                > > and not the other way around.
                > >
                > > To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check some of Charles
                > > Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the url,
                > >
                > > http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A
                > >
                > > Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3 are pretty good
                > > indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.
                > >
                > > Regards,
              • p. hendricks
                Well, I haven t read it all but... I don t care about notes...sequences.. I use sequences but usually destroyed. midi, I have an Encore Expressionist that I
                Message 7 of 13 , Nov 7, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Well,
                  I haven't read it all but... I don't care about notes...sequences.. I use
                  sequences but usually destroyed. midi, I have an Encore Expressionist that I
                  got 5 or 6 years ago when I first got my large modular(E-mu) but I just
                  really have not used it at all since, I may sell but it is cool and one day
                  maybe I'll get back into midi... note; I have two A-155 so I'll grab a A-154
                  for sure and I and many I know will miss the N64 controller.. but midi.. I
                  don't do. roland? I don't touch, ok, I have a gr500 g-synth that I play with
                  eproms instead of picks. ppq? I'm only trying to give you MY perspective,
                  not being snobby or anything. I like all GOOD music. Really liked the new
                  Kraftwerk as an example as something that is relevant here. Myself I like
                  dysfunctional modules. I also have a Regelwerk but have never used the midi
                  on it, partly as I use macs and Doepfer has never been mac friendly.


                  I also, want more powerful possibilities as you say, but I like the modular
                  idea for this, if midi adds significant cost and time, I think it should
                  be passed on, However if as you say it is microprocessor based I will step
                  back and re-evaluate things... not sure this is what I wanted. I like
                  voltages.. tube synths, messed up diy `synths... but again I know that's
                  just me.
                  As for midi, personally, it didn't work for me, I tweaked stuff forever
                  nothing was ever "done." It all became over done/ too perfect. I like to
                  capture the raw spirit of the moment. I use the modulars now.

                  best,
                  phil

                  --+
                  cloaca recordings
                  http://www.cloaca.net/







                  On 11/7/03 9:26 PM, "ringmod45" <ringmod45@...> wrote:

                  > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "p. hendricks" <ph@c...> wrote:
                  >> hi all and Doepfer,
                  >> I think I agree 90%, I just want a true TKB, an expressive
                  > controller.
                  >> I just really don't care about midi, I don't use midi,
                  >
                  > Hi PH,
                  >
                  > Do you live in a 24 ppq world? Or 1 ppq world? Are you using a roland
                  > MC-4 to do pattern or song composition? Or are you a cut and paste
                  > tape kinda person? No disrespect, but this seems rather limiting.
                  >
                  > For the last 15 or so years, i would say midi is a pretty important
                  > form of manipulating notes and musical structures. Unless you are
                  > inputting notes, step wise, a la MC-4 (which is a computer controlled
                  > sequencer)you are not going too far, musically speaking. It's all
                  > about control, The benefit of midi is the ability to edit and save
                  > your musical ideas.
                  >
                  >
                  > and it seems it could
                  >> be expensive to add good enough converters to make midi functions
                  > accurate.
                  >
                  > You have to understand that the proposed TKB will be microprocessor
                  > based to begin with, therefore with a little extra code and a few
                  > extra converters and proper planning, you could make it more
                  > functional to work with in both worlds, analogue and midi. Plus most
                  > of the ground work for this has been developed in one way or another
                  > already by Doepfer. It would cost more money to keep it strictly
                  > analogue. We already have analogue sources to control our modulars.
                  > All of these sources are very linear and static ( i.e. note length
                  > limitations, etc.).
                  >
                  >> perhaps not: for $30 more sure midi is a cool bonus.
                  >> But with this argument you could add midi to many A-100 modules, so
                  > I prefer
                  >> leaving midi out of it.
                  >
                  > That is why we have midi2cv converters. We are not talking about
                  > adding midi control to A100 modules, we are talking about adding midi
                  > control to a controller, so you can save and edit your work and
                  > control your analogue sounds.
                  >
                  >> Keep it simple. (or keep it open?) I would want it to more and
                  > faster, but I
                  >> want about all the new modules about to come out so my budget needs
                  > to catch
                  >> up.
                  >> Perhaps a very basic budget version would be good to get things
                  > going
                  >
                  > This has nothing to do with the proposed Doepfer TKB. A Serge TKB can
                  > be bought brand new for $1850.00usd for the TKB, $275.00usd for the
                  > power supply and $400.00usd for the Rox box enclosure, which brings
                  > us to a grand total of $2525.00usd for a simple 4 x 16 touch
                  > sequencer keyboard.This is for a simple TKB, nothing fancy. The
                  > Doepfer Tkb will have more features and will probably be a
                  > $1000.00usd cheaper or less. If you need simplicity buy a Serge TKB.
                  >
                  > Phil I am just looking at the more powerful possibilities, were the
                  > tkb to have midi implementation. With the price of laptops these days
                  > and the software available, the combination of both would be
                  > thrilling. The proposed Doepfer TKB can have the ability to do both,
                  > so we would benefit more from having both.
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  > RM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > and
                  >> later after feedback based on that a deluxe model or an expander
                  > like the
                  >> A-154). Many have not used a TKB, so what people are asking for I
                  > suspect,
                  >> may change drastically after having even a basic version
                  >>
                  >> many exciting modules coming out, now we need a 9 or 12 space
                  > frame/psu.
                  >> best,
                  >> phil
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On 11/7/03 4:08 PM, "ringmod45" <ringmod45@y...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>>
                  >>> Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,
                  >>>
                  >>> The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and function wise,
                  >>> idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one wants, will be
                  > able
                  >>> to be implemented.
                  >>>
                  >>> Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed Doepfer TKB is
                  >>> modelled after the two of the most sought after and expressive
                  >>> analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219 Touch Keyboard and
                  > the
                  >>> Serge TKB. Here are the url's;
                  >>>
                  >>> http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html
                  >>>
                  >>> http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
                  >>>
                  >>> These are features and functions the proposed Doepfer TKB is based
                  >>> upon. This the foundation from which to build upon and not to
                  >>> subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a Good Job so
                  > far,
                  >>> it just needs to be tweaked some more.
                  >>>
                  >>> The pressure voltage, derived by capacitance-activated touch
                  > plates
                  >>> or keys, is the most natural and expressive control in electrical
                  >>> terms. It is very similar to playing a string instrument. It is
                  >>> direct and immediate, finger to touch plate, unlike an organ
                  > manual,
                  >>> finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger contact.
                  >>>
                  >>> The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is bring elements of
                  > the
                  >>> above mentioned controllers and not to have a organ style manual
                  >>> dictate how it should be or perform. There are very few of these
                  >>> controllers around for people to make remarks or opine ideas on
                  > how
                  >>> they should be built, so it should be modelled from the originals
                  >>> with input from people who have used and understand them.
                  >>>
                  >>> The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then adapted to an organ
                  > style
                  >>> manual. Here is the url,
                  >>>
                  >>> http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
                  >>> http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg
                  >>>
                  >>> Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is only feasible and
                  >>> logical to have midi onboard. Building the proposed Doepfer TKB,
                  >>> Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It should be modular in
                  >>> its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and sequencer functions
                  >>> and not the other way around.
                  >>>
                  >>> To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check some of Charles
                  >>> Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the url,
                  >>>
                  >>> http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A
                  >>>
                  >>> Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3 are pretty good
                  >>> indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.
                  >>>
                  >>> Regards,
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >

                  --+
                  cloaca recordings
                  http://www.cloaca.net/
                • Bakis Sirros
                  hello list, i also think that we need a bigger PSU included in the G6 racks!did you noticed that the a107 needs 200mA s????the a154 100ma s????in my next order
                  Message 8 of 13 , Nov 8, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    hello list,
                    i also think that we need a bigger PSU included in the
                    G6 racks!did you noticed that the a107 needs
                    200mA's????the a154 100ma's????in my next order i want
                    to include 4 a107's in one G6, AND I'LL HAVE TO ORDER
                    A G6 WITH TWO POWER SUPPLYS!
                    bakis.



                    --- "p. hendricks" <ph@...> wrote:
                    > hi all and Doepfer,
                    > I think I agree 90%, I just want a true TKB, an
                    > expressive controller.
                    > I just really don't care about midi, I don't use
                    > midi, and it seems it could
                    > be expensive to add good enough converters to make
                    > midi functions accurate.
                    > perhaps not: for $30 more sure midi is a cool bonus.
                    > But with this argument you could add midi to many
                    > A-100 modules, so I prefer
                    > leaving midi out of it.
                    > Keep it simple. (or keep it open?) I would want it
                    > to more and faster, but I
                    > want about all the new modules about to come out so
                    > my budget needs to catch
                    > up.
                    > Perhaps a very basic budget version would be good to
                    > get things going and
                    > later after feedback based on that a deluxe model or
                    > an expander like the
                    > A-154). Many have not used a TKB, so what people are
                    > asking for I suspect,
                    > may change drastically after having even a basic
                    > version.
                    >
                    > many exciting modules coming out, now we need a 9 or
                    > 12 space frame/psu.
                    > best,
                    > phil
                    >
                    >
                    > On 11/7/03 4:08 PM, "ringmod45"
                    > <ringmod45@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,
                    > >
                    > > The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and
                    > function wise,
                    > > idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one
                    > wants, will be able
                    > > to be implemented.
                    > >
                    > > Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed
                    > Doepfer TKB is
                    > > modelled after the two of the most sought after
                    > and expressive
                    > > analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219
                    > Touch Keyboard and the
                    > > Serge TKB. Here are the url's;
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html
                    > >
                    > > http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
                    > >
                    > > These are features and functions the proposed
                    > Doepfer TKB is based
                    > > upon. This the foundation from which to build upon
                    > and not to
                    > > subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a
                    > Good Job so far,
                    > > it just needs to be tweaked some more.
                    > >
                    > > The pressure voltage, derived by
                    > capacitance-activated touch plates
                    > > or keys, is the most natural and expressive
                    > control in electrical
                    > > terms. It is very similar to playing a string
                    > instrument. It is
                    > > direct and immediate, finger to touch plate,
                    > unlike an organ manual,
                    > > finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger
                    > contact.
                    > >
                    > > The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is
                    > bring elements of the
                    > > above mentioned controllers and not to have a
                    > organ style manual
                    > > dictate how it should be or perform. There are
                    > very few of these
                    > > controllers around for people to make remarks or
                    > opine ideas on how
                    > > they should be built, so it should be modelled
                    > from the originals
                    > > with input from people who have used and
                    > understand them.
                    > >
                    > > The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then
                    > adapted to an organ style
                    > > manual. Here is the url,
                    > >
                    > >
                    > http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
                    > >
                    >
                    http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg
                    > >
                    > > Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is
                    > only feasible and
                    > > logical to have midi onboard. Building the
                    > proposed Doepfer TKB,
                    > > Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It
                    > should be modular in
                    > > its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and
                    > sequencer functions
                    > > and not the other way around.
                    > >
                    > > To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check
                    > some of Charles
                    > > Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the
                    > url,
                    > >
                    > > http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A
                    > >
                    > > Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3
                    > are pretty good
                    > > indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.
                    > >
                    > > Regards,
                    >
                    >


                    =====
                    Bakis Sirros
                    Parallel Worlds / Polariton
                    Athens-Greece
                    [Doepfer_a100] group owner
                    http://www.rubber.gr
                    http://www.ward12.com

                    __________________________________
                    Do you Yahoo!?
                    Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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                  • ringmod45
                    Hi Phil, I understand where you are coming from. It irks me when I here people put down midi. Sometimes people have a hard time separating it from synthesis.
                    Message 9 of 13 , Nov 8, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Phil,

                      I understand where you are coming from. It irks me when I here people
                      put down midi. Sometimes people have a hard time separating it from
                      synthesis. Midi is a communications tool, it has lots of different
                      uses.

                      I like improvisational music, looping and building layers and taking
                      them down. This is a very hard process to do in a purely analogue
                      control path. I also like to write and edit music into some musical
                      form.


                      Look at the later developments of the Emu modular, it all went
                      towards memory and microprocessors, which is a precursor to midi. The
                      4060 keyboard system facilitated great tracks like Herbie Hancock's
                      Rockit.

                      I also like circuit bent modules and toys, bringing some form of
                      control to them is also good.

                      About the regelwerk, the cv and gate stuff was a bonus add-on,
                      derived from the schaltwerk. It is very underpowered, but you have
                      the benefit of memory.

                      As to midi and constantly editing, this can be time consuming. I like
                      using an MPC with a Midi2cv ( encore expressionist), you set the
                      number of bars, put it in overdub mode and start building on the fly
                      one track at time. Once you have a few rtacks you mute and unmute as
                      you wish, very free and you can save it and edit later, if you wish.

                      If you are looking for powerful features and you are on a Mac, try
                      this software out, here is the url.

                      http://www.five12.com/numerology.html

                      This is all about control, it has step sequencers, dividers and all
                      the logic stuff you need. You could use it with a Drehbank and your
                      encore exressionist to have greater control of your A100 and the
                      ability to save your work.

                      There is also Max/Msp and for really out there stuff there is M. here
                      are the urls,

                      http://www.cycling74.com/products/maxmsp.html

                      http://www.cycling74.com/products/maxmsp.html

                      There are useful elements of midi to control analogue modulars, we
                      just need more inovative controllers and the Doepfer is a step in the
                      right direction.

                      Thanks for your understanding and I hope you can see the other
                      benefits of midi. Don't sell that expressionist it will be getting a
                      software upgrade in the near future.

                      Regards,
                      RM


                      --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "p. hendricks" <ph@c...> wrote:
                      > Well,
                      > I haven't read it all but... I don't care about notes...sequences..
                      I use
                      > sequences but usually destroyed. midi, I have an Encore
                      Expressionist that I
                      > got 5 or 6 years ago when I first got my large modular(E-mu) but I
                      just
                      > really have not used it at all since, I may sell but it is cool and
                      one day
                      > maybe I'll get back into midi... note; I have two A-155 so I'll
                      grab a A-154
                      > for sure and I and many I know will miss the N64 controller.. but
                      midi.. I
                      > don't do. roland? I don't touch, ok, I have a gr500 g-synth that I
                      play with
                      > eproms instead of picks. ppq? I'm only trying to give you MY
                      perspective,
                      > not being snobby or anything. I like all GOOD music. Really liked
                      the new
                      > Kraftwerk as an example as something that is relevant here. Myself
                      I like
                      > dysfunctional modules. I also have a Regelwerk but have never used
                      the midi
                      > on it, partly as I use macs and Doepfer has never been mac friendly.
                      >
                      >
                      > I also, want more powerful possibilities as you say, but I like the
                      modular
                      > idea for this, if midi adds significant cost and time, I think it
                      should
                      > be passed on, However if as you say it is microprocessor based I
                      will step
                      > back and re-evaluate things... not sure this is what I wanted. I
                      like
                      > voltages.. tube synths, messed up diy `synths... but again I know
                      that's
                      > just me.
                      > As for midi, personally, it didn't work for me, I tweaked stuff
                      forever
                      > nothing was ever "done." It all became over done/ too perfect. I
                      like to
                      > capture the raw spirit of the moment. I use the modulars now.
                      >
                      > best,
                      > phil
                      >
                      > --+
                      > cloaca recordings
                      > http://www.cloaca.net/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 11/7/03 9:26 PM, "ringmod45" <ringmod45@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "p. hendricks" <ph@c...>
                      wrote:
                      > >> hi all and Doepfer,
                      > >> I think I agree 90%, I just want a true TKB, an expressive
                      > > controller.
                      > >> I just really don't care about midi, I don't use midi,
                      > >
                      > > Hi PH,
                      > >
                      > > Do you live in a 24 ppq world? Or 1 ppq world? Are you using a
                      roland
                      > > MC-4 to do pattern or song composition? Or are you a cut and paste
                      > > tape kinda person? No disrespect, but this seems rather limiting.
                      > >
                      > > For the last 15 or so years, i would say midi is a pretty
                      important
                      > > form of manipulating notes and musical structures. Unless you are
                      > > inputting notes, step wise, a la MC-4 (which is a computer
                      controlled
                      > > sequencer)you are not going too far, musically speaking. It's all
                      > > about control, The benefit of midi is the ability to edit and save
                      > > your musical ideas.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > and it seems it could
                      > >> be expensive to add good enough converters to make midi functions
                      > > accurate.
                      > >
                      > > You have to understand that the proposed TKB will be
                      microprocessor
                      > > based to begin with, therefore with a little extra code and a few
                      > > extra converters and proper planning, you could make it more
                      > > functional to work with in both worlds, analogue and midi. Plus
                      most
                      > > of the ground work for this has been developed in one way or
                      another
                      > > already by Doepfer. It would cost more money to keep it strictly
                      > > analogue. We already have analogue sources to control our
                      modulars.
                      > > All of these sources are very linear and static ( i.e. note length
                      > > limitations, etc.).
                      > >
                      > >> perhaps not: for $30 more sure midi is a cool bonus.
                      > >> But with this argument you could add midi to many A-100 modules,
                      so
                      > > I prefer
                      > >> leaving midi out of it.
                      > >
                      > > That is why we have midi2cv converters. We are not talking about
                      > > adding midi control to A100 modules, we are talking about adding
                      midi
                      > > control to a controller, so you can save and edit your work and
                      > > control your analogue sounds.
                      > >
                      > >> Keep it simple. (or keep it open?) I would want it to more and
                      > > faster, but I
                      > >> want about all the new modules about to come out so my budget
                      needs
                      > > to catch
                      > >> up.
                      > >> Perhaps a very basic budget version would be good to get things
                      > > going
                      > >
                      > > This has nothing to do with the proposed Doepfer TKB. A Serge TKB
                      can
                      > > be bought brand new for $1850.00usd for the TKB, $275.00usd for
                      the
                      > > power supply and $400.00usd for the Rox box enclosure, which
                      brings
                      > > us to a grand total of $2525.00usd for a simple 4 x 16 touch
                      > > sequencer keyboard.This is for a simple TKB, nothing fancy. The
                      > > Doepfer Tkb will have more features and will probably be a
                      > > $1000.00usd cheaper or less. If you need simplicity buy a Serge
                      TKB.
                      > >
                      > > Phil I am just looking at the more powerful possibilities, were
                      the
                      > > tkb to have midi implementation. With the price of laptops these
                      days
                      > > and the software available, the combination of both would be
                      > > thrilling. The proposed Doepfer TKB can have the ability to do
                      both,
                      > > so we would benefit more from having both.
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > > RM
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > and
                      > >> later after feedback based on that a deluxe model or an expander
                      > > like the
                      > >> A-154). Many have not used a TKB, so what people are asking for I
                      > > suspect,
                      > >> may change drastically after having even a basic version
                      > >>
                      > >> many exciting modules coming out, now we need a 9 or 12 space
                      > > frame/psu.
                      > >> best,
                      > >> phil
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >> On 11/7/03 4:08 PM, "ringmod45" <ringmod45@y...> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Hi Bakis and Mr Doepfer,
                      > >>>
                      > >>> The proposed TKB is bound for failure, feature and function
                      wise,
                      > >>> idealistically speaking. Not every feature, one wants, will be
                      > > able
                      > >>> to be implemented.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Let's get the basics straight. First, the proposed Doepfer TKB
                      is
                      > >>> modelled after the two of the most sought after and expressive
                      > >>> analogue controllers out there, the Buchla 219 Touch Keyboard
                      and
                      > > the
                      > >>> Serge TKB. Here are the url's;
                      > >>>
                      > >>> http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/219-keyboard.html
                      > >>>
                      > >>> http://www.scampers.com/EGRES/wiz_seq.htm
                      > >>>
                      > >>> These are features and functions the proposed Doepfer TKB is
                      based
                      > >>> upon. This the foundation from which to build upon and not to
                      > >>> subtract from. Mr. Doepfer and Company have done a Good Job so
                      > > far,
                      > >>> it just needs to be tweaked some more.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> The pressure voltage, derived by capacitance-activated touch
                      > > plates
                      > >>> or keys, is the most natural and expressive control in
                      electrical
                      > >>> terms. It is very similar to playing a string instrument. It is
                      > >>> direct and immediate, finger to touch plate, unlike an organ
                      > > manual,
                      > >>> finger to plastic key, plastic key to trigger contact.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> The whole point of the proposed Doepfer TKB is bring elements of
                      > > the
                      > >>> above mentioned controllers and not to have a organ style manual
                      > >>> dictate how it should be or perform. There are very few of these
                      > >>> controllers around for people to make remarks or opine ideas on
                      > > how
                      > >>> they should be built, so it should be modelled from the
                      originals
                      > >>> with input from people who have used and understand them.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> The electronics of the Buchla 219 were then adapted to an organ
                      > > style
                      > >>> manual. Here is the url,
                      > >>>
                      > >>> http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/keys-23X.html
                      > >>> http://www.buchla.com/historical/b200/images/237-large.jpeg
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Since we live in the microprocessor age, it is only feasible and
                      > >>> logical to have midi onboard. Building the proposed Doepfer TKB,
                      > >>> Analogue style, would be cost prohibitive. It should be modular
                      in
                      > >>> its approach to allow for expansion of I/O and sequencer
                      functions
                      > >>> and not the other way around.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> To hear a touch keyboard in action, please check some of Charles
                      > >>> Cohen's mp3's to give you an idea. Here is the url,
                      > >>>
                      > >>> http://phobos.serve.com/charles_cohen/?D=A
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Live_at_the_Gathering_19981212 - - track 2 and 3 are pretty good
                      > >>> indications of the Buchla sound and touchplates.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Regards,
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > doepfer_a100-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --+
                      > cloaca recordings
                      > http://www.cloaca.net/
                    • shm1400
                      The point of my comment was that I would like to see new ways of interacting with my modular. Right now, we have keyboards (which I love, I m a pianist), we
                      Message 10 of 13 , Nov 8, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        The point of my comment was that I would like to see new ways of
                        interacting with my modular. Right now, we have keyboards (which I
                        love, I'm a pianist), we have and are about to get some more great
                        tools for creating controlled aleatoric stuff (the SOS, existing and
                        projected logic modules, etc.) and we have basic sequencers that are
                        about to get much better with the A-154. The currently projected
                        TKB will be a very usable addition.

                        However, I would like to get more real time and intuitive control of
                        events within a pre-determined range of possibilities. Some of this
                        will be made possible by the VC abilities of the A-154. For example,
                        changing the offset and attenuation of a waveform going to the 154s
                        VC stage selection will allow selection of a range of CVs within a
                        pre-determined set.

                        Some of this kind of interaction has been explored by others, like
                        the Buchla 400 series. But, I have no desire to go back to the 400s
                        obscure programming language. The Serge TKB also hinted at real time
                        interaction, by allowing a user to select the starting point of a
                        sequence on the fly. However, the Serge has not taken this idea any
                        further in the last 25 years.

                        SO, I would like to see somebody (ie our benefactor, Mr. Doepfer) do
                        something more in this area. Maybe it could be part of the TKB,
                        maybe it is better left to some future development. Maybe it is more
                        than one module.

                        I, like probably everyone else, have some ideas as to what this
                        might look like. Some of my ideas might be good, others are,
                        undoubtedly, misguided. But, that is the joy of a forum like this.

                        --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
                        <synth_freak_2000@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- Dieter Doepfer <hardware@d...> wrote:
                        > > From: "Dieter Doepfer" <hardware@d...>
                        > > To: "Bakis Sirros" <synth_freak_2000@y...>
                        > > Subject: Please forward ...
                        > > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 17:50:54 +0100
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > > Maybe its because the current version of the TKB
                        > > received an
                        > > > unenthusiastic response at trade shows. I still
                        > > wonder if the
                        > > > keyboard appearance might have caused confusion:
                        > > it may have looked
                        > > > to many like a cheap alternative to a real
                        > > keyboard.
                        > >
                        > > This is not the main reason. Our biggest problem -
                        > > as mentioned several
                        > > times - are the many different, partly even
                        > > contradictory suggestions (e.g.
                        > > number of potentiometer rows, MIDI features,
                        > > analog/digital sequencer
                        > > features, mono/polyphony, plates like a "normal"
                        > > keyboard or simply equal
                        > > shaped plates and so on ....).
                        > > In contrast to other projects we see no clear line
                        > > which features (or even
                        > > non-features, e.g. we received messages from several
                        > > customers that they
                        > > will not buy the TKB if it will include MIDI or if
                        > > it will look like a
                        > > normal keyboard or if it will include a digital
                        > > sequencer or ...).
                        > >
                        > > There are no technical but more "political" problems
                        > > due to the many
                        > > different opinions about the TKB. We have a feeling
                        > > that many customers
                        > > believe that their suggestion is the only right one
                        > > and we cannot estimate
                        > > if they will order a TBK too if our version does not
                        > > match their ideas.
                        > >
                        > > But I think that we will manufacture the TKB next
                        > > year knowing that many
                        > > customers will be disappointed as the TKB will not
                        > > match their expectations.
                        > > And of course we hope that the sales will be
                        > > sufficient to cover the
                        > > development costs.
                        > >
                        > > Best wishes
                        > > Dieter Doepfer
                        > >
                        > > P.S. I'm not in the company from Nov 07 - 10, 2003.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > =====
                        > Bakis Sirros
                        > Parallel Worlds / Polariton
                        > Athens-Greece
                        > [Doepfer_a100] group owner
                        > http://www.rubber.gr
                        > http://www.ward12.com
                        >
                        > __________________________________
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                      • David Salter
                        Hi List, There has been some really good constructive input on this subject. I agree with Ring Mod that the TKB should be built from the specs of the original
                        Message 11 of 13 , Nov 10, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi List,

                          There has been some really good constructive input on this subject.

                          I agree with Ring Mod that the TKB should be built from the specs of the
                          original modules and then improved, not have a reduced subset of
                          features.

                          As with any development, you cannot please everyone and Dieter has the
                          commercial issues to concern himself with, there is little point in
                          producing the best system with every feature if he only sells 10 units.

                          Never having used a touch keyboard for any length of time, I did get to
                          play with a Buchla system for a few hours once, I can only rely on the
                          experience of those with more familiarity.

                          I'm not and never will be a keyboard player, I use alternative
                          controllers all the time, both midi and analogue. Whatever the outcome,
                          I wait with baited breath.



                          D. Salter
                          Project Manager
                          Professional Services Group,
                          Reuters
                          85 Fleet Street
                          London
                          EC4P 4AJ

                          Telephone +44 (0)20 7542 2402
                          Mobile +44 (0)7990562402
                          FAX +44 (0)20 7542 2699
                          Email david.salter@...
                          Reuters Messaging david.salter.reuters.com@...
                          Customer support +44 (0)800 442000





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                          Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
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                          the views of Reuters Ltd.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • jmaddocks1975
                          Hi all, My opinion is it should have BOTH midi and cv/gate, it would be crazy to not have midi! What if you were like most people that use computers, you have
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 10, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi all,
                            My opinion is it should have BOTH midi and cv/gate, it would be
                            crazy to not have midi!
                            What if you were like most people that use computers, you have a
                            really cool melody playing on the TKB and want to save it in your
                            sequence (cubase, logik. etc), and I also have times when I like to
                            use cv/gate to give me some inspiration and help me do something I
                            wouldn't have thought of by using midi.
                            If we want cv/gate what about sync24? The TKB will have an internal
                            clock for the sequencer so a sync24 would be nice.

                            If you don't like the midi port on the back of the TKB then don't
                            use it, ignore it, cover it up...

                            It has to be touch plate, no arguement there.

                            There has been so much discussion about this TKB that I've forgotten
                            some of the specs that has been suggested, has anyone talked about
                            having a polyphonic mode?
                            If yes, what's the feeling on this?
                            I know roland did one, and it has to be a good extra, right?


                            so, what's your thoughts on MY opinion?

                            Thanks
                            John





                            --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, David Salter
                            <david.salter@r...> wrote:
                            > Hi List,
                            >
                            > There has been some really good constructive input on this subject.
                            >
                            > I agree with Ring Mod that the TKB should be built from the specs
                            of the
                            > original modules and then improved, not have a reduced subset of
                            > features.
                            >
                            > As with any development, you cannot please everyone and Dieter has
                            the
                            > commercial issues to concern himself with, there is little point in
                            > producing the best system with every feature if he only sells 10
                            units.
                            >
                            > Never having used a touch keyboard for any length of time, I did
                            get to
                            > play with a Buchla system for a few hours once, I can only rely on
                            the
                            > experience of those with more familiarity.
                            >
                            > I'm not and never will be a keyboard player, I use alternative
                            > controllers all the time, both midi and analogue. Whatever the
                            outcome,
                            > I wait with baited breath.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > D. Salter
                            > Project Manager
                            > Professional Services Group,
                            > Reuters
                            > 85 Fleet Street
                            > London
                            > EC4P 4AJ
                            >
                            > Telephone +44 (0)20 7542 2402
                            > Mobile +44 (0)7990562402
                            > FAX +44 (0)20 7542 2699
                            > Email david.salter@r...
                            > Reuters Messaging david.salter.reuters.com@r...
                            > Customer support +44 (0)800 442000
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------------- -
                            > Visit our Internet site at http://www.reuters.com
                            >
                            > Get closer to the financial markets with Reuters Messaging - for
                            more
                            > information and to register, visit http://www.reuters.com/messaging
                            >
                            > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual
                            > sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be
                            > the views of Reuters Ltd.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Bakis Sirros
                            hi john, polyphonic cv/gates? YES! cv/gate and midi in,outs? YES! sync 24?i don t care...but i don t mind including it. bakis. ... ===== Bakis Sirros Parallel
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 10, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              hi john,
                              polyphonic cv/gates? YES!
                              cv/gate and midi in,outs? YES!
                              sync 24?i don't care...but i don't mind including it.
                              bakis.



                              --- jmaddocks1975 <jmaddocks1975@...> wrote:
                              > Hi all,
                              > My opinion is it should have BOTH midi and cv/gate,
                              > it would be
                              > crazy to not have midi!
                              > What if you were like most people that use
                              > computers, you have a
                              > really cool melody playing on the TKB and want to
                              > save it in your
                              > sequence (cubase, logik. etc), and I also have times
                              > when I like to
                              > use cv/gate to give me some inspiration and help me
                              > do something I
                              > wouldn't have thought of by using midi.
                              > If we want cv/gate what about sync24? The TKB will
                              > have an internal
                              > clock for the sequencer so a sync24 would be nice.
                              >
                              > If you don't like the midi port on the back of the
                              > TKB then don't
                              > use it, ignore it, cover it up...
                              >
                              > It has to be touch plate, no arguement there.
                              >
                              > There has been so much discussion about this TKB
                              > that I've forgotten
                              > some of the specs that has been suggested, has
                              > anyone talked about
                              > having a polyphonic mode?
                              > If yes, what's the feeling on this?
                              > I know roland did one, and it has to be a good
                              > extra, right?
                              >
                              >
                              > so, what's your thoughts on MY opinion?
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              > John
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, David Salter
                              > <david.salter@r...> wrote:
                              > > Hi List,
                              > >
                              > > There has been some really good constructive input
                              > on this subject.
                              > >
                              > > I agree with Ring Mod that the TKB should be built
                              > from the specs
                              > of the
                              > > original modules and then improved, not have a
                              > reduced subset of
                              > > features.
                              > >
                              > > As with any development, you cannot please
                              > everyone and Dieter has
                              > the
                              > > commercial issues to concern himself with, there
                              > is little point in
                              > > producing the best system with every feature if he
                              > only sells 10
                              > units.
                              > >
                              > > Never having used a touch keyboard for any length
                              > of time, I did
                              > get to
                              > > play with a Buchla system for a few hours once, I
                              > can only rely on
                              > the
                              > > experience of those with more familiarity.
                              > >
                              > > I'm not and never will be a keyboard player, I use
                              > alternative
                              > > controllers all the time, both midi and analogue.
                              > Whatever the
                              > outcome,
                              > > I wait with baited breath.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > D. Salter
                              > > Project Manager
                              > > Professional Services Group,
                              > > Reuters
                              > > 85 Fleet Street
                              > > London
                              > > EC4P 4AJ
                              > >
                              > > Telephone +44 (0)20 7542 2402
                              > > Mobile +44 (0)7990562402
                              > > FAX +44 (0)20 7542 2699
                              > > Email david.salter@r...
                              > > Reuters Messaging
                              > david.salter.reuters.com@r...
                              > > Customer support +44 (0)800 442000
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              ---------------------------------------------------------------
                              > -
                              > > Visit our Internet site at
                              > http://www.reuters.com
                              > >
                              > > Get closer to the financial markets with Reuters
                              > Messaging - for
                              > more
                              > > information and to register, visit
                              > http://www.reuters.com/messaging
                              > >
                              > > Any views expressed in this message are those of
                              > the individual
                              > > sender, except where the sender specifically
                              > states them to be
                              > > the views of Reuters Ltd.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >


                              =====
                              Bakis Sirros
                              Parallel Worlds / Polariton
                              Athens-Greece
                              [Doepfer_a100] group owner
                              http://www.rubber.gr
                              http://www.ward12.com

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