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Re: Vactrols and bongos

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  • madrayken
    ... Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds of it, you don t *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.
    Message 1 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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      --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
      >
      > just saw this...
      >
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus
      >
      > bongo with the new module from makenoise.
      >

      Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds
      of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.
    • Derek Holzer
      No, I guess it wouldn t need a vactrol to make the low-pass gate. But it would need to be a low pass gate, meaning that it would need to exponentially reduce
      Message 2 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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        No, I guess it wouldn't need a vactrol to make the low-pass gate. But it
        would need to be a low pass gate, meaning that it would need to
        exponentially reduce the higher frequencies over time so you would get a
        lot of high frequency formants at the start of the note and it would
        dampen down to the resonant frequency at the end of the note.

        Perhaps a similar trick could be done with an envelope generator,
        however, controlling either the cutoff frequency or the resonance or
        both of a low pass filter. Might sound similar but probably not the
        same. I think I've seen some low pass gate designs that don't use a
        vactrol to control the shape of the high frequency decay, although as
        far as components go, a vactrol (an optocoupler combining an LED and a
        photoresistor...it's the slow response time of the photoresistor that
        gives the characteristic slew of the vactrol) is pretty darn cheap. But
        that's DIY talk again...

        The Make Noise low pass gate looks pretty good for what it is. We just
        gotta get that dude doing the demo to get rid of the vocal pitch
        shifter. Does he think he's James Earl Jones as Darth Vader or
        something? ;-)

        D.

        madrayken wrote:
        > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
        >> just saw this...
        >>
        >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus
        >>
        >> bongo with the new module from makenoise.
        >>
        >
        > Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds
        > of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.


        --
        derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
        ---Oblique Strategy # 145:
        "Slow preparation, fast execution"
      • Tony Rolando
        Seriously, there is NOTHING like the Vactrol sound. If there were another option, then Buchla, Wiard, Plan B, Doepfer and Make Noise would be using that
        Message 3 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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          Seriously, there is NOTHING like the Vactrol sound. If there were
          another option, then Buchla, Wiard, Plan B, Doepfer and Make Noise would
          be using that option, as Vactrols are a royal pain. They are expensive,
          big, suffer limited availability and worst of all, they are one of those
          components that must be sorted for most audio applications. This is
          because the spec for certain characteristics is very loose.

          Florian mentioned getting the wood-block sound with any resonating BP
          filter. I think he might have been writing of a different type of sound.
          I imagine a wood-block sound as a very short sound, that is resonant and
          yet does not ring much at all... Every block of wood I have ever hit
          sounded something like that... The electronic bongo is more of a ringing
          drum or plucked string type of sound, easily achieved with the Vactrol
          based Timbral Gate. There are NUMEROUS demos here, just scroll down and
          to the following pages of the thread:

          http://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2272&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

          also some here:

          http://www.makenoisemusic.com/QMMG.html

          Tony Rolando
          Make Noise
          http://www.makenoisemusic.com

          madrayken wrote:
          >
          > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:Doepfer_a100%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > just saw this...
          > >
          > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus
          > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus>
          > >
          > > bongo with the new module from makenoise.
          > >
          >
          > Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds
          > of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.
          >
          >
        • Tony Rolando
          Derek, I promise the next video that I do will feature my own nasally, skinny white-boy voice :) Tony
          Message 4 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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            Derek, I promise the next video that I do will feature my own nasally,
            skinny white-boy voice :)

            Tony


            Derek Holzer wrote:
            >
            > No, I guess it wouldn't need a vactrol to make the low-pass gate. But it
            > would need to be a low pass gate, meaning that it would need to
            > exponentially reduce the higher frequencies over time so you would get a
            > lot of high frequency formants at the start of the note and it would
            > dampen down to the resonant frequency at the end of the note.
            >
            > Perhaps a similar trick could be done with an envelope generator,
            > however, controlling either the cutoff frequency or the resonance or
            > both of a low pass filter. Might sound similar but probably not the
            > same. I think I've seen some low pass gate designs that don't use a
            > vactrol to control the shape of the high frequency decay, although as
            > far as components go, a vactrol (an optocoupler combining an LED and a
            > photoresistor...it's the slow response time of the photoresistor that
            > gives the characteristic slew of the vactrol) is pretty darn cheap. But
            > that's DIY talk again...
            >
            > The Make Noise low pass gate looks pretty good for what it is. We just
            > gotta get that dude doing the demo to get rid of the vocal pitch
            > shifter. Does he think he's James Earl Jones as Darth Vader or
            > something? ;-)
            >
            > D.
            >
            > madrayken wrote:
            > > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:Doepfer_a100%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ken" <kenneth_harte@...> wrote:
            > >> just saw this...
            > >>
            > >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus
            > <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJwTtrl6rus>
            > >>
            > >> bongo with the new module from makenoise.
            > >>
            > >
            > > Indeed - this vid is what prompted my original question. By the sounds
            > > of it, you don't *need* a vactrol in order to produce the bongo sound.
            >
            > --
            > derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl <http://www.umatic.nl> :::
            > http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista <http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista>
            > ---Oblique Strategy # 145:
            > "Slow preparation, fast execution"
            >
            >
          • Derek Holzer
            I just finished writing that they are pretty darn cheap, but looking back at the supplier I use (Banzai in Berlin) I do see that commercial vactrols are pretty
            Message 5 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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              I just finished writing that they are pretty darn cheap, but looking
              back at the supplier I use (Banzai in Berlin) I do see that commercial
              vactrols are pretty pricey compared with more common components like op
              amps and such. And yes, they did keep me on hold for weeks recently
              while they sourced some particular ones for some Tellun modules I'm
              building, so I wouldn't say they are rare, but they probably aren't easy
              to keep around when you are making runs of modules.

              But one thing I like about vactrols is the materiality of them. The
              sound/effect comes from a direct physical characteristic of the
              component. I guess every analog component is like that in some way (slew
              rates of op amps, clipping of diodes, etc etc), but yes since the
              vactrol spec is pretty loose you really realize the limitations and
              properties of the material.

              best!
              d.

              Tony Rolando wrote:
              > Seriously, there is NOTHING like the Vactrol sound. If there were
              > another option, then Buchla, Wiard, Plan B, Doepfer and Make Noise would
              > be using that option, as Vactrols are a royal pain. They are expensive,
              > big, suffer limited availability and worst of all, they are one of those
              > components that must be sorted for most audio applications. This is
              > because the spec for certain characteristics is very loose.

              --
              derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
              ---Oblique Strategy # 14:
              "Ask people to work against their better judgement"
            • Chidra_100@iinet.net.au
              Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco and fm functions? Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already have
              Message 6 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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                Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco and fm
                functions?

                Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already
                have 2x110 so far...

                Please no sine-cult spamming :P

                :)

                Thanks
              • Derek Holzer
                OK, hands up if ANYBODY in this group actually does sound like James Earl Jones! Or Darth Vader, for that matter... Before and after treatments:
                Message 7 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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                  OK, hands up if ANYBODY in this group actually does sound like James
                  Earl Jones! Or Darth Vader, for that matter...

                  Before and after treatments:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBtr9bbPEc

                  Scrolling text isn't so bad either you know ;-)

                  But in any case, you're pitching to a largely (but by no means
                  exclusively) nasal, skinny white-boy audience anyways, so why be ashamed?

                  happy new years!
                  d.

                  Tony Rolando wrote:
                  > Derek, I promise the next video that I do will feature my own nasally,
                  > skinny white-boy voice :)
                  >
                  > Tony


                  --
                  derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
                  ---Oblique Strategy # 152:
                  "Tape your mouth"
                • Doug
                  This video has bell tones created by two FM d A-111 s. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB9u4FtLqw&fmt=18
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jan 6, 2009
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                    This video has bell tones created by two FM'd A-111's.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB9u4FtLqw&fmt=18




                    --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..." <ChidrA_100@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco and fm
                    > functions?
                    >
                    > Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already
                    > have 2x110 so far...
                    >
                    > Please no sine-cult spamming :P
                    >
                    > :)
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    >
                  • laryn91
                    Since the 111 is designed around the CEM 3340, it s a highly precise and stable VCO with glitch-free saw and triangle waves. Mine are tuned to track close to 5
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jan 8, 2009
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                      Since the 111 is designed around the CEM 3340, it's a highly precise and stable VCO with
                      glitch-free saw and triangle waves. Mine are tuned to track close to 5 octaves! The only
                      other modular VCO I know that matches 111's performance is the discontinued MOTM
                      VCO.

                      For those who believe precision in analog means "sterile sound"(?), you can always
                      modulate the 111 with a tiny amount of LP filtered noise to simulate pitch instability and
                      get a fatter sound. You can preprocess the CV thru a VCA or simply misadjust the tracking
                      trim pot to track poorly - if you believe wide tracking range is a bad thing.

                      I have 3 of them and recommend them.


                      --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..." <ChidrA_100@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco and fm
                      > functions?
                      >
                      > Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already
                      > have 2x110 so far...
                      >
                      > Please no sine-cult spamming :P
                      >
                      > :)
                      >
                      > Thanks
                      >
                    • Chidra_100@iinet.net.au
                      Thanks for the link ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jan 9, 2009
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                        Thanks for the link


                        On 07/01/2009, at 3:58 PM, Doug wrote:

                        > This video has bell tones created by two FM'd A-111's.
                        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbB9u4FtLqw&fmt=18
                        >
                        > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..." <ChidrA_100@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco
                        > and fm
                        > > functions?
                        > >
                        > > Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already
                        > > have 2x110 so far...
                        > >
                        > > Please no sine-cult spamming :P
                        > >
                        > > :)
                        > >
                        > > Thanks
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chidra_100@iinet.net.au
                        Thanks for the feedback, sounds good. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jan 9, 2009
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                          Thanks for the feedback, sounds good.


                          On 09/01/2009, at 4:38 AM, laryn91 wrote:

                          > Since the 111 is designed around the CEM 3340, it's a highly precise
                          > and stable VCO with
                          > glitch-free saw and triangle waves. Mine are tuned to track close to
                          > 5 octaves! The only
                          > other modular VCO I know that matches 111's performance is the
                          > discontinued MOTM
                          > VCO.
                          >
                          > For those who believe precision in analog means "sterile sound"(?),
                          > you can always
                          > modulate the 111 with a tiny amount of LP filtered noise to simulate
                          > pitch instability and
                          > get a fatter sound. You can preprocess the CV thru a VCA or simply
                          > misadjust the tracking
                          > trim pot to track poorly - if you believe wide tracking range is a
                          > bad thing.
                          >
                          > I have 3 of them and recommend them.
                          >
                          > --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Chidra_100@..."
                          > <ChidrA_100@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Does anybody have any sound examples of an A-111-1 High end vco
                          > and fm
                          > > functions?
                          > >
                          > > Thinking about getting one, not sure yet. Need some advise, already
                          > > have 2x110 so far...
                          > >
                          > > Please no sine-cult spamming :P
                          > >
                          > > :)
                          > >
                          > > Thanks
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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