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Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

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  • sunny_kiwica <ken.noesgaard@shaw.ca>
    I d like to check if any lead exists in the stainess steel pot scrubbers I bought for my reflux column. I can t find any of those lead-check kits anywhere.
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 2, 2003
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      I'd like to check if any lead exists in the stainess steel pot
      scrubbers I bought for my reflux column.

      I can't find any of those "lead-check" kits anywhere.

      Does anyone know of an "alchemical" method for teting for the
      presence of lead? I don't need to know amount, just if it's there or
      not.

      Thanks,

      Ken.
    • Ken Grady
      Gday Ken, Try your local painters trade shop they should have lead test kits or they should be able to tell you where to get one. Ken Grady. I d like to check
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 3, 2003
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        Gday Ken,
        Try your local painters trade shop they should have lead test kits or they should be able to tell you where to get one.
         
        Ken Grady.
         
        I'd like to check if any lead exists in the stainess steel pot
        scrubbers I bought for my reflux column.

        I can't find any of those "lead-check" kits anywhere.

        Does anyone know of an "alchemical" method for teting for the
        presence of lead? I don't need to know amount, just if it's there or
        not.

        Thanks,

        Ken.



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      • sunny_kiwica <ken.noesgaard@shaw.ca>
        You know, I checked every paint shop in town, they either don t know what I m talking about, or they say they haven t had those in years. I guess the big lead
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 3, 2003
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          You know, I checked every paint shop in town, they either don't know
          what I'm talking about, or they say they haven't had those in years.

          I guess the big lead scare is over...

          Ken.


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Grady" <kengrady@d...> wrote:
          >
          > Gday Ken,
          > Try your local painters trade shop they should have lead test
          kits or they should be able to tell you where to get one.
          >
          > Ken Grady.
          >
          > I'd like to check if any lead exists in the stainess steel pot
          > scrubbers I bought for my reflux column.
          >
          > I can't find any of those "lead-check" kits anywhere.
          >
          > Does anyone know of an "alchemical" method for teting for the
          > presence of lead? I don't need to know amount, just if it's
          there or
          > not.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Ken.
          >
          >
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        • Mike Nixon
          sunny_kiwica wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers? You know, I checked every paint shop in town, they either don t know what I m
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 4, 2003
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            sunny_kiwica wrote:
            Subject: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

            You know, I checked every paint shop in town, they either don't know what I'm talking about, or they say they haven't had those in years.
            I guess the big lead scare is over...
            =============================
            Worried about lead?
             
            There are some cunning tests that you can do.
             
            Add the suspect liquid to a dilute solution of sulphuric acid - easily available by diluting acid from your car battery by adding that acid to water (not the other way round please).  A white precipitate may indicate lead sulphate.
            If still suspicious, add the suspect solution to hydrochloric acid.  Lead chloride may precipitate out ... soluble in hot water but not in household ammonia.
            Alternatively, if you can't be bothered to get hydrochloric acid, mix the suspect solution with a strong saline solution (ordinary table salt).  If you get a white precipitate, then you may have lead.
            Note:  do not expect nice big lumps of white gunge as a precipitate ... it may simply appear as a faint, white cloudiness.  For that reason, do not take any of these tests as gospel. as some congeners can result in white cloudiness when water is added.  Those who know Pernod will recognise this.  All I offer here are some of the tests recommended for simple chemical qualitative analysis.  There are other more reliable tests, but they use exotic chemicals you are unlikely to have access to.
             
            True, certain test ... take it to an analysis lab (and pay the fee) which can give you a definitive answer ... and tell you what concentration as well.  However, it's a bit like diagnosing your own illness or what is wrong with your car ... the experts usually come up with completely different answers to what you expected.
             
            Bottom line, unless you have been boiling an ingot of lead in your product for hours, or chew your lead soldiers, you are highly unlikely to have anywhere near a nasty dose of lead, or any lead at all.  Even in the days of lead anti-knock additives in petrol/gas, I do not recall any of us falling down in the street clutching our throats with symptoms of acute lead poisoning from the air we breathed.
             
            Absolutely bottom bottom line (with abject apologies to all Old Wives out there. but it is an unfortunate fact of nature) ... metal ions do  not get vaporized in a still, so any vapor that gets to the top of the column positively metal free.  Not convinced about that?  Sodium is a metal, and is half of the ordinary table salt molecule.  How do you think they desalinate water?
             
            Mike N
             
             
             
          • Ian Crouch
            Ken I noted your query about lead in potscrubbers with a great deal of interest. What alerted you to the fact that there may be lead in the ss used in
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 4, 2003
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              Ken
              I noted your query about lead in potscrubbers with a great deal of interest. What alerted you to the fact that there may be lead in the ss used in potscrubbers? If you're right then there is good reason to be extremely careful as to which type it would be safe to use.
               
              Regards
              Ian
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 9:08 PM
              Subject: [Distillers] Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

              I'd like to check if any lead exists in the stainess steel pot
              scrubbers I bought for my reflux column.

              I can't find any of those "lead-check" kits anywhere.

              Does anyone know of an "alchemical" method for teting for the
              presence of lead? I don't need to know amount, just if it's there or
              not.

              Thanks,

              Ken.



              To unsubscribe from this group send an email to  distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            • Mike Nixon
              Ian Crouch wrote: Subject: Re: [Distillers] Testing for lead in pot scrubbers? Ken I noted your query about lead in potscrubbers with a great deal of interest.
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 4, 2003
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                Ian Crouch wrote:
                Subject: Re: [Distillers] Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

                Ken
                I noted your query about lead in potscrubbers with a great deal of interest. What alerted you to the fact that there may be lead in the ss used in potscrubbers? If you're right then there is good reason to be extremely careful as to which type it would be safe to use.
                =================================
                Oh dear ... I'm sorry if I sound like a pain when I say this, but I've lost count of the number of times this has been repeated on the list ... metals are not vaporized when you distil, and so do not get carried up to where you condense the vapor to get your product.  Any metals that get leached out of anything inside the column get sent down with the reflux liquid to the boiler. 
                 
                Mike N
                 
              • sunny_kiwica
                Thanks very much for a very well considered answer, Mike. You have stated the obvious eloquently. It makes such perfect sense, I can t understand why I didn t
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 5, 2003
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                  Thanks very much for a very well considered answer, Mike.

                  You have stated the obvious eloquently. It makes such perfect sense,
                  I can't understand why I didn't see it on my own... of course lead in
                  the packing won't be in the distillate! Lead will only dissolve into
                  the distillate if the distillate sits in contact with it (say in a
                  lead crystal decanter) but no metal will move with the vapour at 78C.

                  The warning about lead in pot scrubbers seems to be commonly repeated
                  out in the world. I was trying to remember where I saw it, but the
                  web pages where this warning is quoted are lost to me, but I DID find
                  it in my copy of "Home Distillation Handbook" written by an anonymous
                  Swede, and distributed by Gert Strand - Brewhaus in N.A.

                  I quote:
                  "Do NOT use kitchen copper or stainless stell kitchen pads as column
                  filling without the manufacturers GUARANTEE that they are made from
                  food grade material, in case they contain lead or dangerous metals."
                  (p.18) Of course... Gert Strand (Brewhaus) DOES sell Rachig Rings
                  (AND guaranteed lead-free pot scrubbers)

                  So that's why this thread keeps coming back.

                  Thanks for clearing that up, Mike.

                  Ken.


                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                  > Oh dear ... I'm sorry if I sound like a pain when I say this, but
                  I've lost count of the number of times this has been repeated on the
                  list ... metals are not vaporized when you distil, and so do not get
                  carried up to where you condense the vapor to get your product. Any
                  metals that get leached out of anything inside the column get sent
                  down with the reflux liquid to the boiler.
                  >
                  > Mike N
                • Mike Nixon
                  sunny_kiwica wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers? Thanks very much for a very well considered answer, Mike. You have stated the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 6, 2003
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                    sunny_kiwica wrote:
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

                    Thanks very much for a very well considered answer, Mike.

                    You have stated the obvious eloquently. It makes such perfect sense, I can't
                    understand why I didn't see it on my own... of course lead in the packing
                    won't be in the distillate! Lead will only dissolve into the distillate if
                    the distillate sits in contact with it (say in a lead crystal decanter) but
                    no metal will move with the vapour at 78C.
                    =====================
                    No problems Ken ... it's still a widely held belief unfortunately.
                    Incidentally, you won't get any lead from lead glass. It's only called that
                    as lead salts are added to give the glass particular properties, eg. "lead
                    crystal" for tableware (appropriate refractive index to enhance reflections)
                    to radiation proof glass for the lab. The lead is tightly bound in the
                    glass matrix and cannot be leached out.

                    Mike N
                  • Michael
                    Yes. This common wives tail extends from older days when drinking glasses were stained with lead based paints or joined or finished with lead trimmings. Upon
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 6, 2003
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                      Yes. This common wives tail extends from older days when drinking
                      glasses were stained with lead based paints or joined or finished
                      with lead trimmings. Upon discovering it's toxicity, a stigma has
                      shrouded any product that has the name lead in it.

                      In regards to salts falling back down the column. I guess this means
                      we should not mix any backsets into our final product unless we are
                      sure that we have no heavy metals present?

                      Michael

                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Nixon" <mike@s...> wrote:
                      > No problems Ken ... it's still a widely held belief unfortunately.
                      > Incidentally, you won't get any lead from lead glass. It's only
                      > called that as lead salts are added to give the glass particular
                      > properties, eg. "lead crystal" for tableware (appropriate
                      > refractive index to enhance reflections) to radiation proof glass
                      > for the lab. The lead is tightly bound in the glass matrix and
                      > cannot be leached out.
                      >
                      > Mike N
                    • Mike Nixon
                      Michael wrote: Subject: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers? In regards to salts falling back down the column. I guess this means we should not
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 6, 2003
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                        Michael wrote:
                        Subject: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

                        In regards to salts falling back down the column.  I guess this means we should not mix any backsets into our final product unless we are sure that we have no heavy metals present?
                        ====================================
                        Spot on Michael.  Definitely not a good idea to mix anything into the potion you plan to drink unless you are sure of its purity.
                        In any event, you don't need to use "backsets" (by which I understand you mean reflux in the column or what is in the boiler) when tails are available.  These have been through the whole distillation process and can only contain metals leached from the final outlet section of your still or containers you might store it in. If you store in glass or food-grade plastic, you are left with only the final outlet section to worry about, and even if you used lead solder in that section, the quantity of lead that would be leached out by transient liquid would be difficult to detect, even in a lab.
                         
                        Mike N
                         
                      • Mike Nixon
                        To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers? Well folks. Looks like old wisdom is not necessarily best
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 6, 2003
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                          To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

                          Well folks.  Looks like "old wisdom" is not necessarily "best wisdom".  Concerning the ability of lead to leach out of lead glass, have a peek at
                          http://www.imageryproducts.com/riedel.shtml and go down to the bottom of the page.   

                          From another source:  

                          This article originally appeared in the April 1993 FDA Consumer. PUBLICATION NO.(FDA) 93-1209 Lead Threats Lessen,But Mugs Pose Problem
                          Throughout history, lead in food and drink has been synonymous with disaster. Historians suspect that some ancient empires rambled when leaders became deranged or died of poisoning because they used lead to sweeten wine, drank from lead©lined aqueducts, and used utensils made with lead©based clays and paints.
                          These days, knowledge of the dangers of lead poisoning keeps manufacturers and governments vigilant about the amounts that get into food. Small amounts of lead leach from glazes and decorative paints on ceramic dinnerware, from lead crystal. and. less frequently, from pewter and silver-plated hollowware.
                          Also, because lead is generally in the environment, it makes its way into food through soil and water.

                          Crystal Ware
                          Recent
                          studies have found that lead can leach into food from lead crystal hollowware. The International Crystal Federation has provided FDA a report of its research on lead leaching into food and alcoholic beverages, and the industry has started a program in which manufacturers share technological developments to reduce lead leaching. Also, FDA has initiated studies of its own on lead leaching from crystal.

                          Until FDA reviews all the data and determines what further actions, if any, need to be taken, the agency advises consumers not to store alcoholic beverages in lead crystal decanters, and pregnant women not to routinely drink from lead crystal glasses. Infants should not be fed with lead crystal baby bottles. Because lead is ubiquitous, FDA recognizes that no effort will totally eliminate lead from the food supply, however desirable that may be. But FDA and many other federal, state and local governments are working together through all available means to reduce exposure to lead. The initial focus is on the sources likely to result in the greatest exposure.

                          We hope you found this reprint from FDA Consumer magazine useful and informative. FDA Consumer, the magazine of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, provides a wealth of information on FDA-related health issues: food safety, nutrition, drugs, medical devices, cosmetics, radiation protection, vaccines, blood products, and veterinary medicine. For a sample copy of FDA Consumer and a subscription order form, write to: Food and Drug Administration, HFI-40, Rockville , MD 20857 .

                          I've highlighted the pertinent parts in red, and you will see that it is not only lead glassware that should avoid, but you should also start eating your food off paper plates!

                          How much of this is a reflection of the current flood of "For God's sake don't breathe ... it will kill you" warnings I really can't say, but it does make me wonder how the hell I have managed to live so long if everything around me has been busy poisoning me for all those years.  Personally, I'm always suspicious of claims like this that use generalities and offer no figures.  It really is enough to drive anyone to drink ... but do NOT add sugar of lead to sweeten your martini!

                          MIke N

                           

                        • Michael
                          I think that the most dangerous source of lead nowadays is for people who go fishing. Like mercury, lead can be absorbed through the skin. This is why
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 6, 2003
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                            I think that the most dangerous source of lead nowadays is for people
                            who go fishing. Like mercury, lead can be absorbed through the
                            skin. This is why fisherman have a reputation for exageration. All
                            the lead from our sinkers has made us go mad.

                            It is funny, but the people who want to protect us from these things
                            are the same type of people who were burning witches in the dark
                            ages. Sheese, don't they know we can take care of ourselves?


                            Michael

                            "She's a witch!"
                            "She turned me into a newt..."
                            [everyone looks at him]
                            "Well, I got better..."
                          • Johan
                            I read a similar article about crystal wine decanter (not sure about the English translation) unfortunately I can t remember much about it. But I do remember
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 7, 2003
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                              Meddelande
                              I read a similar article about crystal wine decanter (not sure about the English translation) unfortunately I can't remember much about it. But I do remember that the level of lead was unhealthy after a few hours. Crystal decanter was not recommended. I believe the low ph in wine has a lot to do with it as well.
                               
                              -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
                              Från: Mike Nixon [mailto:mike@...]
                              Skickat: den 7 mars 2003 05:16
                              Till: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Ämne: Re: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

                              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?

                              Well folks.  Looks like "old wisdom" is not necessarily "best wisdom".  Concerning the ability of lead to leach out of lead glass, have a peek at
                              http://www.imageryproducts.com/riedel.shtml and go down to the bottom of the page.    

                              From another source:  

                              This article originally appeared in the April 1993 FDA Consumer. PUBLICATION NO.(FDA) 93-1209 Lead Threats Lessen,But Mugs Pose Problem
                              Throughout history, lead in food and drink has been synonymous with disaster. Historians suspect that some ancient empires rambled when leaders became deranged or died of poisoning because they used lead to sweeten wine, drank from lead©lined aqueducts, and used utensils made with lead©based clays and paints.
                              These days, knowledge of the dangers of lead poisoning keeps manufacturers and governments vigilant about the amounts that get into food. Small amounts of lead leach from glazes and decorative paints on ceramic dinnerware, from lead crystal. and. less frequently, from pewter and silver-plated hollowware.
                              Also, because lead is generally in the environment, it makes its way into food through soil and water.

                              Crystal Ware
                              Recent
                              studies have found that lead can leach into food from lead crystal hollowware. The International Crystal Federation has provided FDA a report of its research on lead leaching into food and alcoholic beverages, and the industry has started a program in which manufacturers share technological developments to reduce lead leaching. Also, FDA has initiated studies of its own on lead leaching from crystal.

                              Until FDA reviews all the data and determines what further actions, if any, need to be taken, the agency advises consumers not to store alcoholic beverages in lead crystal decanters, and pregnant women not to routinely drink from lead crystal glasses. Infants should not be fed with lead crystal baby bottles. Because lead is ubiquitous, FDA recognizes that no effort will totally eliminate lead from the food supply, however desirable that may be. But FDA and many other federal, state and local governments are working together through all available means to reduce exposure to lead. The initial focus is on the sources likely to result in the greatest exposure.

                              We hope you found this reprint from FDA Consumer magazine useful and informative. FDA Consumer, the magazine of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, provides a wealth of information on FDA-related health issues: food safety, nutrition, drugs, medical devices, cosmetics, radiation protection, vaccines, blood products, and veterinary medicine. For a sample copy of FDA Consumer and a subscription order form, write to: Food and Drug Administration, HFI-40, Rockville , MD 20857 .

                              I've highlighted the pertinent parts in red, and you will see that it is not only lead glassware that should avoid, but you should also start eating your food off paper plates!

                              How much of this is a reflection of the current flood of "For God's sake don't breathe ... it will kill you" warnings I really can't say, but it does make me wonder how the hell I have managed to live so long if everything around me has been busy poisoning me for all those years.  Personally, I'm always suspicious of claims like this that use generalities and offer no figures.  It really is enough to drive anyone to drink ... but do NOT add sugar of lead to sweeten your martini!

                              MIke N

                               



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                            • Harley Daschund
                              Your post reminds me of something I once read/saw on TV....something about a glass flute or similar wind instrument (musical) that was made of something
                              Message 14 of 15 , Mar 7, 2003
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                                Your post reminds me of something I once read/saw on TV....something about a
                                'glass flute' or similar 'wind instrument' (musical) that was made of
                                something containing an abundance of lead...legend HAD it that the music was
                                so beautiful it drove the musicians insane...later it was discovered that
                                the 'insanity' actually was a product of years of having the instrument in
                                their mouths....







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                              • Harley Daschund
                                Thanks for the laugh...only thing wrong with your theory is....Lead is real...witches are/were BS....: ) ...
                                Message 15 of 15 , Mar 7, 2003
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                                  Thanks for the laugh...only thing 'wrong' with your 'theory' is....Lead is
                                  real...witches are/were BS....:>)





                                  >From: "Michael" <god@...>
                                  >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                                  >Subject: [Distillers] Re: Testing for lead in pot scrubbers?
                                  >Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2003 05:57:08 -0000
                                  >
                                  >I think that the most dangerous source of lead nowadays is for people
                                  >who go fishing. Like mercury, lead can be absorbed through the
                                  >skin. This is why fisherman have a reputation for exageration. All
                                  >the lead from our sinkers has made us go mad.
                                  >
                                  >It is funny, but the people who want to protect us from these things
                                  >are the same type of people who were burning witches in the dark
                                  >ages. Sheese, don't they know we can take care of ourselves?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Michael
                                  >
                                  >"She's a witch!"
                                  >"She turned me into a newt..."
                                  > [everyone looks at him]
                                  >"Well, I got better..."
                                  >
                                  >


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