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Need help with large batch

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  • brattleson <brattleson@yahoo.co.uk>
    Hello. I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger per 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now it´s stuck at 1.20
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 21, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello.

      I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger per
      25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now it´s
      stuck at 1.20 SG.
      I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more yeast.
      It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
      Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
      thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
      third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
      Any thoughts?
      Thanks.

      H. Bergmann.
    • Mike Martyn
      Have you added any yeast nutrient or is hat included in the turbo yeast package? Most wine stores ill sell a yeast nutrient usually in a 250mg. package.
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 21, 2003
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        Have you added any yeast nutrient or is hat included in the turbo yeast package? Most wine stores ill sell a yeast nutrient usually in a 250mg. package.

         "brattleson <brattleson@...>" <brattleson@...> wrote:

        Hello.

        I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger per
        25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now it´s
        stuck at 1.20 SG.
        I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more yeast.
        It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
        Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
        thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
        third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
        Any thoughts?
        Thanks.

        H. Bergmann.



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      • peter_vcb <viciousblackout@yahoo.com>
        i take it you measured the 150litres properly (i.e. you didnt just fill up a bin which claimed it was 150litres on the side). adding more water is no problem,
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 21, 2003
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          i take it you measured the 150litres properly (i.e. you didnt just
          fill up a bin which claimed it was 150litres on the side). adding
          more water is no problem, if it was less than 150l you have a problem.

          i also presume you added 6 full packets of turbo yeast which included
          the necessary nutrients.

          if you did both of the above then i would suggest giving it a very
          good stir, or even better get an aquarium pump and pump some air into
          it. bring the temperature up to 25C too, just until it starts
          fermenting properly again, then you can go back to 20C.

          good luck

          Peter

          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brattleson <brattleson@y...>"
          <brattleson@y...> wrote:
          > Hello.
          >
          > I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger
          per
          > 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now it´s
          > stuck at 1.20 SG.
          > I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more
          yeast.
          > It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
          > Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
          > thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
          > third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
          > Any thoughts?
          > Thanks.
          >
          > H. Bergmann.
        • nanosleep <nanosleep@yahoo.com>
          It s stuck at 1.20? If fully fermented an SG of 1.20 will produce 26% alcohol!!! Do you mean to say 1.020? If you started at 1.130ish and you are now at
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 21, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            It's stuck at 1.20? If fully fermented an SG of 1.20 will
            produce 26% alcohol!!! Do you mean to say 1.020? If you
            started at 1.130ish and you are now at 1.020, then you've
            produced about 15% alcohol. Maybe this is enough to kill
            your yeasts. Does anyone who's used turbos know when
            they die? I've never used a turbo, but I've heard people
            claim they'll ferment up to 20%ish.
            You can recover your alcohol and not waste the
            unfermented sugar. Go ahead and run your wash through
            your still. This will remove the 15% alcohol from the
            wash, but leave the sugar behind. Take your spent wash
            and add additional sugar to bring the SG up to around
            1.100 (13%). Then referment it. If your yeasts are
            dying at 15%, then they should be able to ferment out
            to 13%.

            -A



            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brattleson <brattleson@y...>"
            <brattleson@y...> wrote:
            > Hello.
            >
            > I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger
            per
            > 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now
            it´s
            > stuck at 1.20 SG.
            > I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more
            yeast.
            > It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
            > Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
            > thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
            > third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
            > Any thoughts?
            > Thanks.
            >
            > H. Bergmann.
          • Brewhaus
            Most of the temperature tolerant yeasts will only reach 14%, and you will find that most of the higher alcohol tolerant yeasts cannot be scaled for larger
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 21, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Most of the temperature tolerant yeasts will only reach 14%, and you will
              find that most of the higher alcohol tolerant yeasts cannot be scaled for
              larger batches because the heat generated will at the very least decrease
              their tolerance to alcohol.

              If you are going to run 150L batches in one container you will need to use a
              yeast that is geared to this, and step down to 6kg per 25L, or a potential
              of 14%.

              If you started with a potential of 18% in a 150L batch, and you have gotten
              a fermentation to 15%, I would agree that it is probably all you will see
              for this run.

              Rick


              -----Original Message-----
              From: nanosleep <nanosleep@...> [mailto:nanosleep@...]
              Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:06 PM
              To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch


              It's stuck at 1.20? If fully fermented an SG of 1.20 will
              produce 26% alcohol!!! Do you mean to say 1.020? If you
              started at 1.130ish and you are now at 1.020, then you've
              produced about 15% alcohol. Maybe this is enough to kill
              your yeasts. Does anyone who's used turbos know when
              they die? I've never used a turbo, but I've heard people
              claim they'll ferment up to 20%ish.
              You can recover your alcohol and not waste the
              unfermented sugar. Go ahead and run your wash through
              your still. This will remove the 15% alcohol from the
              wash, but leave the sugar behind. Take your spent wash
              and add additional sugar to bring the SG up to around
              1.100 (13%). Then referment it. If your yeasts are
              dying at 15%, then they should be able to ferment out
              to 13%.

              -A



              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brattleson <brattleson@y...>"
              <brattleson@y...> wrote:
              > Hello.
              >
              > I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger
              per
              > 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now
              it´s
              > stuck at 1.20 SG.
              > I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more
              yeast.
              > It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
              > Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
              > thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
              > third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
              > Any thoughts?
              > Thanks.
              >
              > H. Bergmann.


              To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
              distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

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            • Robert N
              Hi Rick and your recommendations for this size batch (150~175 litres) would be? I have been toying with making one large batch instead of the 50lt that I
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 21, 2003
              • 0 Attachment

                Hi Rick and your recommendations for this size batch (150~175 litres) would be? I have been toying with making one large batch instead of the 50lt that I currently make; do I gather that one would be better off making up the mash in 50lt lots rather than say 150~175litre in size? Is there any real need to use an airlock on a 150Lt batch?

                 

                Yours in Spirit

                 

                Robert

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Brewhaus [mailto:orders@...]
                Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:50 PM
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch

                 

                Most of the temperature tolerant yeasts will only reach 14%, and you will
                find that most of the higher alcohol tolerant yeasts cannot be scaled for
                larger batches because the heat generated will at the very least decrease
                their tolerance to alcohol.

                If you are going to run 150L batches in one container you will need to use a
                yeast that is geared to this, and step down to 6kg per 25L, or a potential
                of 14%.

                If you started with a potential of 18% in a 150L batch, and you have gotten
                a fermentation to 15%, I would agree that it is probably all you will see
                for this run.

                Rick


                -----Original Message-----
                From: nanosleep <nanosleep@...> [mailto:nanosleep@...]
                Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:06 PM
                To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch


                It's stuck at 1.20?  If fully fermented an SG of 1.20 will
                produce 26% alcohol!!!  Do you mean to say 1.020?  If you
                started at 1.130ish and you are now at 1.020, then you've
                produced about 15% alcohol.  Maybe this is enough to kill
                your yeasts.  Does anyone who's used turbos know when
                they die?  I've never used a turbo, but I've heard people
                claim they'll ferment up to 20%ish.
                You can recover your alcohol and not waste the
                unfermented sugar.  Go ahead and run your wash through
                your still.  This will remove the 15% alcohol from the
                wash, but leave the sugar behind.  Take your spent wash
                and add additional sugar to bring the SG up to around
                1.100 (13%).  Then referment it.  If your yeasts are
                dying at 15%, then they should be able to ferment out
                to 13%.

                -A



                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brattleson <brattleson@y...>"
                <brattleson@y...> wrote:
                > Hello.
                >
                > I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger
                per
                > 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now
                it´s
                > stuck at 1.20 SG.
                > I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more
                yeast.
                > It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
                > Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
                > thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
                > third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
                > Any thoughts?
                > Thanks.
                >
                > H. Bergmann.


                To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                To unsubscribe from this group send an email to  distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

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              • smudge311065 <smudge@bigpond.net.au>
                Hi, I brew in 200 litre batches. It been a long time since I used Turbo s, but I have lots of experience with stuck ferments. I doubt the fermentation
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 21, 2003
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                  Hi,

                  I brew in 200 litre batches. It been a long time since I used
                  Turbo's, but I have lots of experience with stuck ferments.

                  I doubt the fermentation temperature is the issue. Its more likely to
                  be related to the pitching temperature, or something else that
                  prevented the yeast colony from getting properly established. Most
                  stuck ferments are yeast nutrition related, but its hard to imagine
                  how that could happen with Turbos unless you were trying to exceed
                  the volume/sugar.

                  Each yeast cell can only process a certain amount of sugar. Once they
                  have done their dash, they die. After fermentation starts, yeast
                  reproduction has stops. With a weak (or small) yeast colony they may
                  stop converting sugar before all the sugar is gone, and you get a
                  stuck fermentation. Weakened yeast cells are also less able to cope
                  with stress factors such as temperature, CO2, osmotic pressure,
                  alcohol, pH etc, etc.

                  I use a yeast called ICV-K1 V1116, it is rated to 18% alcohol with a
                  recommended temperature range of 18 to 42 degrees C. I don't know
                  exactly what yeast is in Turbos, but it seems ridiculously
                  temperature sensitive. I ferment out to around 17% in three days at
                  26 degrees.

                  Whatever the cause, the wash you have now will be low in oxygen,
                  nutrients and high in alcohol. I doubt any new yeast you add will be
                  able to get established in an environment like that.

                  Restarting a stuck fermentation normally involves removing some of
                  the wash, watering it back to reduce the alcohol concentration,
                  adding nutrients, aerating it and finally adding more yeast. Once it
                  is fermenting nicely, add it back to the main wash. Worth the effort
                  for 2000 litres of grape juice, but not 150 litres of Turbo wash.

                  Smudge





                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brattleson <brattleson@y...>"
                  <brattleson@y...> wrote:
                  > Hello.
                  >
                  > I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger
                  per
                  > 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now it´s
                  > stuck at 1.20 SG.
                  > I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more
                  yeast.
                  > It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
                  > Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
                  > thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
                  > third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
                  > Any thoughts?
                  > Thanks.
                  >
                  > H. Bergmann.
                • Brewhaus
                  Hi Robert, When fermenting larger batches the center of the mash becomes considerably warmer than that at the outer edges, so a temperature tolerant yeast must
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 22, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Robert,
                    When fermenting larger batches the center of the mash becomes considerably warmer than that at the outer edges, so a temperature tolerant yeast must be used.  We carry a couple of types, and there are others out there as well.  The alcohol ratings that you will see on the package are based on optimal temperatures.  If a yeast has an alcohol tolerance of 20% at 20'C (68'F), and your mash reaches a temperature of 25'C (77'F), it will not have the ability to ferment to 20%.  Basically, the increased temperature stresses the yeast.  Because pushing the upper limits of the yeast's alcohol tolerance is stressful in itself, a temperature increase overloads the yeast, and its tolerance to other factors such as alcohol decreases.
                     
                    As I mentioned, there are yeasts that are very tolerant to temperature, and they will ferment very happily up to 35'C (95'F), but again remember that this must be the hottest part of the mash, which will be at the center.  You also need to keep in mind that when you get above 30'C (86'F) the yeast will start to produce far more volatiles.
                     
                    I have customers that recirculate the entire mash during fermentation, and run the line through a cooling chamber so that the mash temperature is kept controlled.  This may sound like overkill, but it does allow you to use a higher alcohol tolerance yeast in large batches.  For most people, it is easiest to just choose between the smaller batches or the lower alcohol tolerance / higher temperature tolerance yeasts.
                     
                    Rick 
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Robert N [mailto:dinks_c@...]
                    Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:34 PM
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch

                    Hi Rick and your recommendations for this size batch (150~175 litres) would be? I have been toying with making one large batch instead of the 50lt that I currently make; do I gather that one would be better off making up the mash in 50lt lots rather than say 150~175litre in size? Is there any real need to use an airlock on a 150Lt batch?

                     

                    Yours in Spirit

                     

                    Robert

                     

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Brewhaus [mailto:orders@...]
                    Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:50 PM
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch

                     

                    Most of the temperature tolerant yeasts will only reach 14%, and you will
                    find that most of the higher alcohol tolerant yeasts cannot be scaled for
                    larger batches because the heat generated will at the very least decrease
                    their tolerance to alcohol.

                    If you are going to run 150L batches in one container you will need to use a
                    yeast that is geared to this, and step down to 6kg per 25L, or a potential
                    of 14%.

                    If you started with a potential of 18% in a 150L batch, and you have gotten
                    a fermentation to 15%, I would agree that it is probably all you will see
                    for this run.

                    Rick


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: nanosleep <nanosleep@...> [mailto:nanosleep@...]
                    Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:06 PM
                    To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch


                    It's stuck at 1.20?  If fully fermented an SG of 1.20 will
                    produce 26% alcohol!!!  Do you mean to say 1.020?  If you
                    started at 1.130ish and you are now at 1.020, then you've
                    produced about 15% alcohol.  Maybe this is enough to kill
                    your yeasts.  Does anyone who's used turbos know when
                    they die?  I've never used a turbo, but I've heard people
                    claim they'll ferment up to 20%ish.
                    You can recover your alcohol and not waste the
                    unfermented sugar.  Go ahead and run your wash through
                    your still.  This will remove the 15% alcohol from the
                    wash, but leave the sugar behind.  Take your spent wash
                    and add additional sugar to bring the SG up to around
                    1.100 (13%).  Then referment it.  If your yeasts are
                    dying at 15%, then they should be able to ferment out
                    to 13%.

                    -A



                    --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brattleson <brattleson@y...>"
                    <brattleson@y...> wrote:
                    > Hello.
                    >
                    > I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg. suger
                    per
                    > 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now
                    it´s
                    > stuck at 1.20 SG.
                    > I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more
                    yeast.
                    > It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
                    > Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
                    > thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe one
                    > third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
                    > Any thoughts?
                    > Thanks.
                    >
                    > H. Bergmann.


                    To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                    distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/





                    To unsubscribe from this group send an email to  distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

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                  • brattleson <brattleson@yahoo.co.uk>
                    Hi, I´ve had some problems with my adsl supplier hence the late reply. Yes of course it was 1.020SG, not 1.200SG. The batch did not stop becouse of overheat.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Feb 24, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi, I´ve had some problems with my adsl supplier hence the late
                      reply. Yes of course it was 1.020SG, not 1.200SG.
                      The batch did not stop becouse of overheat. I´ve bin experimenting
                      whith adding big parts of the suger later on the run and heat has
                      never went past 26c. The fermenting time is longer but still less
                      hassle then making several 50L. or even 25L.
                      But I´ll go ahead and "save" this batch by adding some of it, 1/3-
                      2/5, to a new batch.
                      Thanks for the advice, all of you.

                      H. Bergmann



                      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Brewhaus" <orders@b...> wrote:
                      > Hi Robert,
                      > When fermenting larger batches the center of the mash becomes
                      considerably
                      > warmer than that at the outer edges, so a temperature tolerant
                      yeast must be
                      > used. We carry a couple of types, and there are others out there
                      as well.
                      > The alcohol ratings that you will see on the package are based on
                      optimal
                      > temperatures. If a yeast has an alcohol tolerance of 20% at 20'C
                      (68'F),
                      > and your mash reaches a temperature of 25'C (77'F), it will not
                      have the
                      > ability to ferment to 20%. Basically, the increased temperature
                      stresses
                      > the yeast. Because pushing the upper limits of the yeast's alcohol
                      > tolerance is stressful in itself, a temperature increase overloads
                      the
                      > yeast, and its tolerance to other factors such as alcohol
                      decreases.
                      >
                      > As I mentioned, there are yeasts that are very tolerant to
                      temperature, and
                      > they will ferment very happily up to 35'C (95'F), but again
                      remember that
                      > this must be the hottest part of the mash, which will be at the
                      center. You
                      > also need to keep in mind that when you get above 30'C (86'F) the
                      yeast will
                      > start to produce far more volatiles.
                      >
                      > I have customers that recirculate the entire mash during
                      fermentation, and
                      > run the line through a cooling chamber so that the mash
                      temperature is kept
                      > controlled. This may sound like overkill, but it does allow you
                      to use a
                      > higher alcohol tolerance yeast in large batches. For most people,
                      it is
                      > easiest to just choose between the smaller batches or the lower
                      alcohol
                      > tolerance / higher temperature tolerance yeasts.
                      >
                      > Rick
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Robert N [mailto:dinks_c@y...]
                      > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:34 PM
                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Rick and your recommendations for this size batch (150~175
                      litres)
                      > would be? I have been toying with making one large batch instead
                      of the 50lt
                      > that I currently make; do I gather that one would be better off
                      making up
                      > the mash in 50lt lots rather than say 150~175litre in size? Is
                      there any
                      > real need to use an airlock on a 150Lt batch?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yours in Spirit
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Robert
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: Brewhaus [mailto:orders@b...]
                      > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:50 PM
                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Most of the temperature tolerant yeasts will only reach 14%, and
                      you will
                      > find that most of the higher alcohol tolerant yeasts cannot be
                      scaled for
                      > larger batches because the heat generated will at the very least
                      decrease
                      > their tolerance to alcohol.
                      >
                      > If you are going to run 150L batches in one container you will
                      need to use
                      > a
                      > yeast that is geared to this, and step down to 6kg per 25L, or a
                      potential
                      > of 14%.
                      >
                      > If you started with a potential of 18% in a 150L batch, and you
                      have
                      > gotten
                      > a fermentation to 15%, I would agree that it is probably all you
                      will see
                      > for this run.
                      >
                      > Rick
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: nanosleep <nanosleep@y...> [mailto:nanosleep@y...]
                      > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 9:06 PM
                      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: [Distillers] Re: Need help with large batch
                      >
                      >
                      > It's stuck at 1.20? If fully fermented an SG of 1.20 will
                      > produce 26% alcohol!!! Do you mean to say 1.020? If you
                      > started at 1.130ish and you are now at 1.020, then you've
                      > produced about 15% alcohol. Maybe this is enough to kill
                      > your yeasts. Does anyone who's used turbos know when
                      > they die? I've never used a turbo, but I've heard people
                      > claim they'll ferment up to 20%ish.
                      > You can recover your alcohol and not waste the
                      > unfermented sugar. Go ahead and run your wash through
                      > your still. This will remove the 15% alcohol from the
                      > wash, but leave the sugar behind. Take your spent wash
                      > and add additional sugar to bring the SG up to around
                      > 1.100 (13%). Then referment it. If your yeasts are
                      > dying at 15%, then they should be able to ferment out
                      > to 13%.
                      >
                      > -A
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "brattleson <brattleson@y...>"
                      > <brattleson@y...> wrote:
                      > > Hello.
                      > >
                      > > I´m having problems with a turbo 150L. batch. I added 8kg.
                      suger
                      > per
                      > > 25L. so it´s is supposed to reach ca. 18% alc. (990 SG), now
                      > it´s
                      > > stuck at 1.20 SG.
                      > > I´ve tried raising the temp. from 19c. to 22c. and added more
                      > yeast.
                      > > It bubbles a little for a couple of hours and then stops.
                      > > Is there any way to save this batch in one piece? Otherwise I´m
                      > > thinking of adding it little by little in a new batch. Maybe
                      one
                      > > third of it when the new batch has been bubbling for two days.
                      > > Any thoughts?
                      > > Thanks.
                      > >
                      > > H. Bergmann.
                      >
                      >
                      > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                      > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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