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Vacuum in glass bottles

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  • Johan Hemberg
    Hi I m testing vacuum setup now. I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it s transparent. But I m a little worried about implosion.
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 30, 2003
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      Meddelande
      Hi
       
      I'm testing vacuum setup now.
      I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's transparent.
      But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be so nice.
       
      How strong is glass?
       
      I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
       
      Johan
        
    • Ludwig
      I turned out a nipple on my lathe and epoxied it onto a wine bottle. I then applied 26 inches of vacuum or about -.087 ATM and had no problem. By the way, a
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 30, 2003
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        I turned out a nipple on my lathe and epoxied it onto a wine bottle. I
        then applied 26 inches of vacuum or about -.087 ATM and had no problem.
        By the way, a 10% rubbing alcohol mixed with water just plain exploded
        with 26 inches of vacuum at about 70 degrees F.

        Ludwig

        hemberg@... wrote:

        > Hi
        >
        > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
        > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
        > transparent.
        > But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be so nice.
        >
        > How strong is glass?
        >
        > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
        >
        > Johan
        >
        >
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      • mwmccaw <mikemccaw@earthlink.net>
        Johan, Glass is very strong, but resistance to vacuum is very dependent upon the shape and construction of the bottle, and on the condition of the glass. Even
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 30, 2003
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          Johan,
          Glass is very strong, but resistance to vacuum is very dependent
          upon the shape and construction of the bottle, and on the condition
          of the glass. Even a small scratch in the glass can lead to
          disaster.
          I remember to this day the time a vacuum dessicator (very heavy duty
          piece of laboratory gear) imploded in my lab. Not nice at all....
          Jars with straight, relatively thin walls (gallon jugs, carboys,
          etc) as a rule will NOT do a particulary good job of holding up
          under vacuum - the walls tend to be the thin spots.
          Remember that a complete vacuum is the equivalent of stacking
          fifteen pounds on every square inch of surface of the jar! It adds
          up rapidly.
          Mike


          --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@h...>
          wrote:
          > Hi
          >
          > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
          > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
          > transparent.
          > But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be so nice.
          >
          > How strong is glass?
          >
          > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
          >
          > Johan
        • homedistiller <homedistiller@yahoo.com>
          Johan, Well done. You are right to worry about implosion. Vacuum can be something strong. It can correspond with almost the pressure of 10 meter of water. On a
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 30, 2003
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            Johan,

            Well done. You are right to worry about implosion.

            Vacuum can be something strong. It can correspond with almost the
            pressure of 10 meter of water. On a surface of one square meter it
            can create a force of almost ten thousand kilograms!

            Look how strong a television tube is made. Bottles are thinner and
            made with much less care. One fault in the glass will certainly cause
            a dangerous collapse.

            The industry uses quite thick steel tanks (with framing!)for vacuum
            applications. For monitoring, small transparent panes are placed in
            the walls.

            Dirk




            --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@h...>
            wrote:
            > Hi
            >
            > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
            > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
            > transparent.
            > But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be so nice.
            >
            > How strong is glass?
            >
            > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
            >
            > Johan
          • peter_vcb <viciousblackout@yahoo.com>
            Johan i have had 2 glass jars break, one from pressure and one the bottom just fell off when filled with water and lifted, they are weak. if you insist on
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 31, 2003
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              Johan
              i have had 2 glass jars break, one from pressure and one the bottom
              just fell off when filled with water and lifted, they are weak. if
              you insist on doing it i would wrap it in masking tape to if it
              cracks it wont fly everywhere, use clear tape if you want to see
              inside

              --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@h...>
              wrote:
              > Hi
              >
              > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
              > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
              > transparent.
              > But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be so nice.
              >
              > How strong is glass?
              >
              > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
              >
              > Johan
            • brattleson <brattleson@yahoo.co.uk>
              Johan. I´ve bin using a 5L. glass container as a alc. reciever and it holds up fine. I´ve bin thinking about making a vacuum still from a 68L. glass
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 31, 2003
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                Johan.

                I´ve bin using a 5L. glass container as a alc. reciever and it holds
                up fine.
                I´ve bin thinking about making a vacuum still from a 68L. glass
                container. It could burst, it´s possible. I´ll just have to check.
                Glass thicknes is certanly importnant.
                How to you intend to heat up the mash?
                Glass does not "deliver" heat as well as s.steel and therefore I am
                not really keen on using a water jacket.
                Glass is in some way a strange choice but as far as I´m concern
                seeing the mash boil and vaporize is a desirable thing in this
                hobby.

                Any thoughts?

                H.Bergmann

                --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "peter_vcb
                <viciousblackout@y...>" <viciousblackout@y...> wrote:
                > Johan
                > i have had 2 glass jars break, one from pressure and one the
                bottom
                > just fell off when filled with water and lifted, they are weak. if
                > you insist on doing it i would wrap it in masking tape to if it
                > cracks it wont fly everywhere, use clear tape if you want to see
                > inside
                >
                > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@h...>
                > wrote:
                > > Hi
                > >
                > > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
                > > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
                > > transparent.
                > > But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be so nice.
                > >
                > > How strong is glass?
                > >
                > > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
                > >
                > > Johan
              • Johan
                Thanks all for advice about the glass containers. I ll use 2 glass containers connected by a hose. The heated glass container will be heated by 45 degree water
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 31, 2003
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                  Thanks all for advice about the glass containers.

                  I'll use 2 glass containers connected by a hose.
                  The heated glass container will be heated by 45 degree water around it.
                  The other one act like a condenser. Just air-cooling.

                  When the summer comes I'll use a black container and a transparent one,
                  the black will be insulated by a thin layer of underlay foam (more or
                  less transparent) or a plastic bag. I just want to see if how long it
                  will take to produce something in sunlight with that.
                  As long as the one containing mash will be something like 10 degrees
                  warmer than the condenser, vapor move from that one to the cooler
                  container.

                  Johan



                  I´ve bin using a 5L. glass container as a alc. reciever and it holds
                  up fine.
                  I´ve bin thinking about making a vacuum still from a 68L. glass
                  container. It could burst, it´s possible. I´ll just have to check.
                  Glass thicknes is certanly importnant.
                  How to you intend to heat up the mash?
                  Glass does not "deliver" heat as well as s.steel and therefore I am
                  not really keen on using a water jacket.
                  Glass is in some way a strange choice but as far as I´m concern
                  seeing the mash boil and vaporize is a desirable thing in this
                  hobby.

                  Any thoughts?

                  H.Bergmann

                  --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "peter_vcb
                  <viciousblackout@y...>" <viciousblackout@y...> wrote:
                  > Johan
                  > i have had 2 glass jars break, one from pressure and one the
                  bottom
                  > just fell off when filled with water and lifted, they are weak. if
                  > you insist on doing it i would wrap it in masking tape to if it
                  > cracks it wont fly everywhere, use clear tape if you want to see
                  > inside
                  >
                  > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@h...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Hi
                  > >
                  > > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
                  > > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
                  > > transparent. But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be
                  > > so nice.
                  > >
                  > > How strong is glass?
                  > >
                  > > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
                  > >
                  > > Johan


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                  distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com

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                • bob johnson
                  hey everyone. theres been alot of talk about vacume stills here lately but i have no idea what one is because i just recently heard of them in this group.
                  Message 8 of 12 , Feb 1, 2003
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                    hey everyone. theres been alot of talk about vacume stills here lately but i
                    have no idea what one is because i just recently heard of them in this
                    group. could somone plz explain it to me so i can understand what im readin
                    a bit more?
                    -thanks for reading
                    -paul






                    >From: "Johan" <kaffekopp@...>
                    >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: SV: [Distillers] Re: Vacuum in glass bottles
                    >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:36:24 +0100
                    >
                    >Thanks all for advice about the glass containers.
                    >
                    >I'll use 2 glass containers connected by a hose.
                    >The heated glass container will be heated by 45 degree water around it.
                    >The other one act like a condenser. Just air-cooling.
                    >
                    >When the summer comes I'll use a black container and a transparent one,
                    >the black will be insulated by a thin layer of underlay foam (more or
                    >less transparent) or a plastic bag. I just want to see if how long it
                    >will take to produce something in sunlight with that.
                    >As long as the one containing mash will be something like 10 degrees
                    >warmer than the condenser, vapor move from that one to the cooler
                    >container.
                    >
                    >Johan
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >I�ve bin using a 5L. glass container as a alc. reciever and it holds
                    >up fine.
                    >I�ve bin thinking about making a vacuum still from a 68L. glass
                    >container. It could burst, it�s possible. I�ll just have to check.
                    >Glass thicknes is certanly importnant.
                    >How to you intend to heat up the mash?
                    >Glass does not "deliver" heat as well as s.steel and therefore I am
                    >not really keen on using a water jacket.
                    >Glass is in some way a strange choice but as far as I�m concern
                    >seeing the mash boil and vaporize is a desirable thing in this
                    >hobby.
                    >
                    >Any thoughts?
                    >
                    >H.Bergmann
                    >
                    >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "peter_vcb
                    ><viciousblackout@y...>" <viciousblackout@y...> wrote:
                    > > Johan
                    > > i have had 2 glass jars break, one from pressure and one the
                    >bottom
                    > > just fell off when filled with water and lifted, they are weak. if
                    > > you insist on doing it i would wrap it in masking tape to if it
                    > > cracks it wont fly everywhere, use clear tape if you want to see
                    > > inside
                    > >
                    > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@h...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Hi
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
                    > > > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
                    > > > transparent. But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be
                    > > > so nice.
                    > > >
                    > > > How strong is glass?
                    > > >
                    > > > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
                    > > >
                    > > > Johan
                    >
                    >
                    >To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                    >distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


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                  • Johan
                    It is a normal still but the air in the still is removed with an air ejector or vacuum pump. When the pressure is low, alcohol and water will boil at a lower
                    Message 9 of 12 , Feb 1, 2003
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                      It is a normal still but the air in the still is removed with an air
                      ejector or vacuum pump.
                      When the pressure is low, alcohol and water will boil at a lower
                      temperature (room temperature if the pressure is low enough) The
                      advantage is that the quality should be slightly better and warm water
                      is enough to make the mash boil.
                      The disadvantage is that it is more difficult to cool down the vapor
                      (since it is cooler) and the still needs to be 100% airtight. The vapor
                      rush through the still faster and that's bad.
                      Personally I see it as a fun experiment, and I'm curious about the
                      quality. Theory is one thing, but practice another, some have had good
                      experience with vacuum so personally I think it's worth giving a try.
                      Using two bottles, with a little heat on the one containing mash will be
                      a simple but maybe good enough still. For some reason it is fun to watch
                      the mash boil in room temperature :)

                      Johan


                      hey everyone. theres been alot of talk about vacume stills here lately
                      but i
                      have no idea what one is because i just recently heard of them in this
                      group. could somone plz explain it to me so i can understand what im
                      readin
                      a bit more?
                      -thanks for reading
                      -paul






                      >From: "Johan" <kaffekopp@...>
                      >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: SV: [Distillers] Re: Vacuum in glass bottles
                      >Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 17:36:24 +0100
                      >
                      >Thanks all for advice about the glass containers.
                      >
                      >I'll use 2 glass containers connected by a hose.
                      >The heated glass container will be heated by 45 degree water around it.

                      >The other one act like a condenser. Just air-cooling.
                      >
                      >When the summer comes I'll use a black container and a transparent one,

                      >the black will be insulated by a thin layer of underlay foam (more or
                      >less transparent) or a plastic bag. I just want to see if how long it
                      >will take to produce something in sunlight with that. As long as the
                      >one containing mash will be something like 10 degrees warmer than the
                      >condenser, vapor move from that one to the cooler container.
                      >
                      >Johan
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >I´ve bin using a 5L. glass container as a alc. reciever and it holds up

                      >fine. I´ve bin thinking about making a vacuum still from a 68L. glass
                      >container. It could burst, it´s possible. I´ll just have to check.
                      >Glass thicknes is certanly importnant.
                      >How to you intend to heat up the mash?
                      >Glass does not "deliver" heat as well as s.steel and therefore I am
                      >not really keen on using a water jacket.
                      >Glass is in some way a strange choice but as far as I´m concern
                      >seeing the mash boil and vaporize is a desirable thing in this
                      >hobby.
                      >
                      >Any thoughts?
                      >
                      >H.Bergmann
                      >
                      >--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "peter_vcb <viciousblackout@y...>"
                      ><viciousblackout@y...> wrote:
                      > > Johan
                      > > i have had 2 glass jars break, one from pressure and one the
                      >bottom
                      > > just fell off when filled with water and lifted, they are weak. if
                      > > you insist on doing it i would wrap it in masking tape to if it
                      > > cracks it wont fly everywhere, use clear tape if you want to see
                      > > inside
                      > >
                      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@h...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > Hi
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm testing vacuum setup now.
                      > > > I have a gallon bottle in glass that I want to use because it's
                      > > > transparent. But I'm a little worried about implosion. wouldn't be

                      > > > so nice.
                      > > >
                      > > > How strong is glass?
                      > > >
                      > > > I've tested in small bottles and that's no problem.
                      > > >
                      > > > Johan
                      >
                      >
                      >To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
                      >distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


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                    • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                      ... See http://homedistiller.org/designs.htm#vacuum for an explanation and a photo tony
                      Message 10 of 12 , Feb 1, 2003
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                        > theres been alot of talk about vacume stills
                        > here lately but i
                        > have no idea what one is

                        See http://homedistiller.org/designs.htm#vacuum for an explanation and a photo

                        tony
                      • bob johnson
                        hey tony i been all over that i could find looking for the distillers pic list and i couldnt find it and was hoping u could help me out again here. if u could
                        Message 11 of 12 , Feb 1, 2003
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                          hey tony i been all over that i could find looking for the distillers pic
                          list and i couldnt find it and was hoping u could help me out again here. if
                          u could that would be really good

                          -thanks for reading
                          -paul




                          >From: "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland@...>
                          >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: <Distillers@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Subject: RE: SV: [Distillers] Re: Vacuum in glass bottles
                          >Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 08:46:53 +1300
                          >
                          >
                          > > theres been alot of talk about vacume stills
                          > > here lately but i
                          > > have no idea what one is
                          >
                          >See http://homedistiller.org/designs.htm#vacuum for an explanation and a
                          >photo
                          >
                          >tony


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                        • Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)
                          ... Look in the area called Photos at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/New_Distillers Tony
                          Message 12 of 12 , Feb 1, 2003
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                            > hey tony i been all over that i could find looking for the
                            > distillers pic list and i couldnt find it

                            Look in the area called "Photos" at
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers and
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/New_Distillers

                            Tony
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