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Re: [Distillers] Digest Number 1076

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  • Debbie
    Somebody here emailed a question to me and I had not replied (husband in the hospital when it came in, he s fine). Anyhow, I upgraded my mail program and lost
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 3, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Somebody here emailed a question to me and I had not replied (husband in the hospital when it came in, he's fine).  Anyhow, I upgraded my mail program and lost all existing messages so if you would please send it to me again I will happily reply if you still don't have an answer!
       
      Debbie
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: Friday, January 03, 2003 08:04:11
      Subject: [Distillers] Digest Number 1076
       
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      ------------------------------------------------------------------------

      There are 24 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. RE: FW: inverting sugar
      From: "Robert N" <dinks_c@...>
      2. polls
      From: "gawchicken2001 <gawchicken@...>" <gawchicken@...>
      3. Re: Thermometer
      From: BOKAKOB <bokakob@...>
      4. Fool Proof Sugar Wash - repost
      From: BOKAKOB <bokakob@...>
      5. Connecting two columns
      From: "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@...>
      6. The Household Cyclopedia
      From: "Randy" <cornfed15@...>
      7. Re: steel flange
      From: "c2h5oh_x <c2h5oh_x@...>" <c2h5oh_x@...>
      8. Re: Internal Reflux Still: Modification questions
      From: BillyWeeble@...
      9. Re: steel flange
      From: "Robert <dinks_c@...>" <dinks_c@...>
      10. 100 mm (4") Diam. Column
      From: Robert Stam <Robert.Stam@...>
      11. Re: 100 mm (4") Diam. Column
      From: "Mike Nixon" <mike@...>
      12. RE: 100 mm (4") Diam. Column
      From: Robert Stam <Robert.Stam@...>
      13. Re: Re: steel flange
      From: giddyup06@...
      14. Re: Re: steel flange
      From: giddyup06@...
      15. Re: SV: SV: Continuous Column - works well !
      From: Ludwig <Bluestar792@...>
      16. Re: SV: SV: Continuous Column - works well !
      From: Ludwig <Bluestar792@...>
      17. test
      From: "Robert N" <dinks_c@...>
      18. Re: steel flange
      From: "zuggetsr <zugget@...>" <zugget@...>
      19. Re: Re: steel flange
      From: "Tim Kovac" <castrumnovum@...>
      20. Gawchicken2001 plate still pictures?
      From: "zuggetsr <zugget@...>" <zugget@...>
      21. Re: SV: SV: Continuous Column - works well !
      From: "motie_d <motie_d@...>" <motie_d@...>
      22. The Tax Poem
      From: "motie_d <motie_d@...>" <motie_d@...>
      23. Re: 100 mm (4") Diam. Column
      From: "fred_onion <sambucca@...>" <sambucca@...>
      24. Re: Re: steel flange
      From: Gil Hardwick <gruagach@...>


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      Message: 1
      Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 00:25:59 +1000
      From: "Robert N" <dinks_c@...>
      Subject: RE: FW: inverting sugar

      Hi there, I have been going through my backlog of distillers emails
      (1`85 to go although last week it was closer to 1200) and I read your
      recipe for a "fool proof sugar recipe" I have searched the archives and
      gone through all your emails (you are prolific) trying to find this
      recipe. From memory you source your yeast etc from winery supplies?
      Thankyou for such an interesting read, its people such as yourself that
      make this list what it is.

      Have a great day!

      Robert
      -----Original Message-----
      From: BOKAKOB [mailto:bokakob@...]
      Sent: Monday, 30 December 2002 10:20 PM
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com; distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Distillers] FW: inverting sugar

      I exclusively make sugar wash lately. Convenience and inexpensive
      components completely dominated whatever flavor I can get from "the real
      stuff." So, coming back to inverting... it is not required. Actually a
      few messages back I wrote "fool proof sugar wash" recepie. The only
      things required are sugar, yeast and nutrients from a reputable
      manufacturer (believe me it is cheaper in small quantities) and hot
      water. I quit "converting" sugar - makes no difference.
      "Ackland, Tony (CALNZAS)" <Tony.Ackland@...> wrote:

      A question from Khlid..
      ********************************
      can someone advise me how long should sugar and citric be boiled to
      attain 70% inversion and how to measure the degree of inversion that
      has taken place. thanks



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      I can be wrong I must say.
      Cheers, Alex...

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      Message: 2
      Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 17:25:39 -0000
      From: "gawchicken2001 <gawchicken@...>" <gawchicken@...>
      Subject: polls

      I thought I read every posting everyday,but looks as thoug I
      slipped somehow as I did not happen to see either of those just
      finished. Not that it makes any differenc but I use exclusively a
      four inch column plate still and run only a sugar wash. My column
      is now 68 inches tall above the small boiler and the offset
      condenser is 24 inches by 3 inches. The offset boiler is thirty
      gallon US but I occasionally will run it only half full or just
      above the elements.
      But this info would not have changed the polls. thanks gaw



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      Message: 3
      Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:05:58 -0800 (PST)
      From: BOKAKOB <bokakob@...>
      Subject: Re: Thermometer


      You don't need a thermometer in the pot. If you are just interested or want your rig to look cool -- by all means stick that thermometer in
      the pot!
      Rocky S <hardrock37us@...> wrote:Hey Group, Do you need a thermometer in the pot? Think I would like to have one there. I've seen all kinds of setups on the web but not sure if a temp reading for the pot is of any use. Thanks, R

      I can be wrong I must say.
      Cheers, Alex...


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      Message: 4
      Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 11:20:06 -0800 (PST)
      From: BOKAKOB <bokakob@...>
      Subject: Fool Proof Sugar Wash - repost


      This is simple thing! Considering that you bought enough sugar and yeast, plus you have the hot water, here it goes:

      1. Empty required sugar in the bottle (I use 5 U.S Gal water bottles)
      2. I use 2 bags of sugar 5 LB each and 20 liters of hot water.
      2. Topple it with hot tap water.
      3. Shake the bottle or stir the sugar till the water is clear.
      4. Wait till it dissolves and topple more water to the mark.
      5. Cool the bottle in your bathtab with cold tap water.
      6. Sprinkle in the bottle required amount of yeast.
      I use 90 grams - 1 packet with nutrients.

      That is all.


      I can be wrong I must say.
      Cheers, Alex...


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      Message: 5
      Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 22:50:11 +0100
      From: "Johan Hemberg" <hemberg@...>
      Subject: Connecting two columns

      Hi

      The higher the column the better the spirits. Often the ceiling is the
      limit and it's not very practical with a very tall still. But if you use
      two columns connected together you can increase the total height. To
      make it work like one large tall still the reflux from the bottom of the
      second column needs to be pumped to the top of the first column. Of
      course you can have separate condensers on every column but that's a
      waste of reflux. What about pumping the reflux to the top of the first
      column with the help of an ejector?
      Instead of a condenser at the top of the first column you force the
      steam through an ejector that sucks up the reflux from the second column
      and collects it above the ejector, the steam/reflux goes into an
      expansion chamber and the reflux is passed down with a thin tube down
      below the ejector. Vapor continuous to the second column.

      The vapor may bypass the ejector through the reflux tube, but with the
      right size in the tubing it maybe is possible, I don't know, does anyone
      here have experience of ejectors and the physics required to calculate
      if it is possible?

      Johan



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      Message: 6
      Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2003 16:13:06 -0600
      From: "Randy" <cornfed15@...>
      Subject: The Household Cyclopedia

      This link appeared in the biofuels yahoo group courtesy of Keith Addison. It is a great online 'how to' book about a whole range of subjects ranging from medical advice to treating your dog for distemper to Making Paints and Cements. The cover page states that it was meant to be a single source reference book to be carried along when people packed up a wagon and headed out into the unknown regions that are settled suburbs today. The book is well indexed down at the bottom of the page.

      http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Cyclopedia/about.html

      the section about distillation is very interesting and will take a long while to read completely through.

      http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Cyclopedia/distillation.html

      There is also a long chapter on brewing.

      http://www.cairns.net.au/~sharefin/Cyclopedia/brewing.html

      hope someone finds this info useful

      [This message contained attachments]



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      Message: 7
      Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 00:28:19 -0000
      From: "c2h5oh_x <c2h5oh_x@...>" <c2h5oh_x@...>
      Subject: Re: steel flange

      I managed to find a 2" brass (threaded) floor flange at a plumbing
      supply. So, something other then iron DOES exist. It was total luck
      as it was the last one they had in stock and the guy at the shop
      indicated that it wasn't something they normally stock. I've been
      pretty happy with it. If you call around, maybe you can find one
      yourself. I payed $20 for mine.

      Picture:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/c2h5oh_x/2_inch_flange.
      jpg


      Good luck!

      -CX


      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rocky S <hardrock37us@y...> wrote:
      > Hi Folks, New guy here. Thinking about useing a steel
      > floor flange in 2" dia. to attach the colunm to the
      > lid. Looks like there will be about three threads
      > exposed to the vapors. Would this be a problem? I read
      > all the post about the steel drum, but this doesn't
      > seem to extream to me, or could it be trouble? I
      > bought it new, because I couldn't find anything else
      > to use, and this thing is getting into the wallet. Any
      > suggestions? Thanx for the great group, Rocko
      >
      > __________________________________________________
      > Do you Yahoo!?
      > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
      > http://mailplus.yahoo.com



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      Message: 8
      Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 03:32:29 EST
      From: BillyWeeble@...
      Subject: Re: Internal Reflux Still: Modification questions


      In a message dated 12/31/02 6:14:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, all5n@...
      writes:

      << Should i ... just bite the bullet and pay the extra $ for the 2" copper. >>

      howdy, I built the 2" internal reflux (with the pass thru pipes) and
      have had no problems with it since modifications were added. I used 1 1/2"
      after the turn at the head and 3/4" inside the water jacket condenser. There
      is some disagreement as to the efficiency of this design, but I get 94% about
      every time (unless I hurry it) and would get a higher % if the column was
      longer. I think 3 1/2 feet would work better than my just under 3 feet. I
      took a picture of the modification in progress and have it attached to this
      note. The insulation is now replaced and the lyne arm is pointing the correct
      way. The valves are what's made this still much more effective and easy to
      run. When the head temp rises to 80C I shut it down since all the ethanol has
      left the boiler.
      I do want to build the valved reflux someday to experience the difference
      between the two. I hear it's a better machine.
      Another thing is to recirculate your coolant. It's a real joy to have
      lots of water running thru the condenser and not worry about the water bill
      or the well running dry.
      And don't forget to use Silver Solder. Good luck!


      [This message contained attachments]



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      Message: 9
      Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 10:36:39 -0000
      From: "Robert <dinks_c@...>" <dinks_c@...>
      Subject: Re: steel flange

      You could also try a ships chandlery for brass fittings of similar
      type.
      Robert

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "c2h5oh_x <c2h5oh_x@y...>"
      <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
      > I managed to find a 2" brass (threaded) floor flange at a
      plumbing
      > supply. So, something other then iron DOES exist. It was total
      luck
      > as it was the last one they had in stock and the guy at the shop
      > indicated that it wasn't something they normally stock. I've been
      > pretty happy with it. If you call around, maybe you can find one
      > yourself. I payed $20 for mine.
      >
      > Picture:
      >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/c2h5oh_x/2_inch_flange
      ..
      > jpg
      >
      >
      > Good luck!
      >
      > -CX
      >
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rocky S <hardrock37us@y...>
      wrote:
      > > Hi Folks, New guy here. Thinking about useing a steel
      > > floor flange in 2" dia. to attach the colunm to the
      > > lid. Looks like there will be about three threads
      > > exposed to the vapors. Would this be a problem? I read
      > > all the post about the steel drum, but this doesn't
      > > seem to extream to me, or could it be trouble? I
      > > bought it new, because I couldn't find anything else
      > > to use, and this thing is getting into the wallet. Any
      > > suggestions? Thanx for the great group, Rocko
      > >
      > > __________________________________________________
      > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
      > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com



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      Message: 10
      Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 08:53:06 +1300
      From: Robert Stam <Robert.Stam@...>
      Subject: 100 mm (4") Diam. Column

      Hi all... happy new year!

      I have a Duplast still with a 330 mm (1') high, 100 mm (4") wide column. I
      have replaced the marbles that it came with, with SS scrubbers, added a
      triac controlled power regulator for the 1500W element. The output is still
      pretty marginal at 65% abv.
      I figure the next thing to do is extend the column by another 1m (3'),
      giving 1.3m (4') overall.

      How does that sound? Does the column need to be longer since it is so wide?

      Mike Nixon/Mike McCaw mention channelling in wide diameter columns and the
      need for spreaders. Do you mean like plates with perforations for vapour to
      come up and reflux to drip down, placed at intervals?

      Cheers, Rob
      Notice of Legal Status and Confidential Information: This electronic mail
      message and any accompanying attachments may contain information that is
      privileged and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient you are
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      Message: 11
      Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:15:04 +1300
      From: "Mike Nixon" <mike@...>
      Subject: Re: 100 mm (4") Diam. Column

      Robert Stam wrote:
      Subject: [Distillers] 100 mm (4") Diam. Column

      Mike Nixon/Mike McCaw mention channelling in wide diameter columns and the
      need for spreaders. Do you mean like plates with perforations for vapour to
      come up and reflux to drip down, placed at intervals?
      ===================================
      Hi Rob. A very happy New Year to you too!

      We have noticed that the wider a column, the greater the tendency is for liquid reflux to form 'preferred' paths back down through the packing. Once these are established, the reflux zips down rapidly back to the boiler and therefore takes no part in the reboiling that we want. It seems to be a bit like 'choking', but without the blockage that 'choking' produces ... in fact, quite the opposite.

      Shaped packing is apparently designed in all its wierd and wonderful shapes to try and counter this, and I'm sure they have managed to overcome it to some degree. However, once a column gets too big, trays become the norm in order to manage the reflux flow. Perforated plates set in the packing at intervals might help a bit to discourage this 'channelling', but the snag is that they might also introduce greater impedance to vapor flow if the holes are too small. However, this is something you might like to explore, as that is just an 'uneducated guess'. If you do try some experiments, I'm sure we would all be eager to learn what you find.

      Cheers!
      Mike N



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      Message: 12
      Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 11:39:31 +1300
      From: Robert Stam <Robert.Stam@...>
      Subject: RE: 100 mm (4") Diam. Column

      Hi Mike, greetings for the new year.

      I have a few ideas for plates. That reminds me of the viewing ports in those
      German stills we got documentation on. I believe that they would be for
      checking the condensate fluid levels in each tray, since the level is
      adjustable with an overflow pipe.

      Cheers, Rob

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mike Nixon [mailto:mike@...]
      Sent: Friday, 3 January 2003 9:15 a.m.
      To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Distillers] 100 mm (4") Diam. Column


      Robert Stam wrote:
      Subject: [Distillers] 100 mm (4") Diam. Column

      Mike Nixon/Mike McCaw mention channelling in wide diameter columns and the
      need for spreaders. Do you mean like plates with perforations for vapour to
      come up and reflux to drip down, placed at intervals?
      ===================================
      Hi Rob. A very happy New Year to you too!

      We have noticed that the wider a column, the greater the tendency is for
      liquid reflux to form 'preferred' paths back down through the packing. Once
      these are established, the reflux zips down rapidly back to the boiler and
      therefore takes no part in the reboiling that we want. It seems to be a bit
      like 'choking', but without the blockage that 'choking' produces ... in
      fact, quite the opposite.

      Shaped packing is apparently designed in all its wierd and wonderful shapes
      to try and counter this, and I'm sure they have managed to overcome it to
      some degree. However, once a column gets too big, trays become the norm in
      order to manage the reflux flow. Perforated plates set in the packing at
      intervals might help a bit to discourage this 'channelling', but the snag is
      that they might also introduce greater impedance to vapor flow if the holes
      are too small. However, this is something you might like to explore, as
      that is just an 'uneducated guess'. If you do try some experiments, I'm
      sure we would all be eager to learn what you find.

      Cheers!
      Mike N


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      Notice of Legal Status and Confidential Information: This electronic mail
      message and any accompanying attachments may contain information that is
      privileged and CONFIDENTIAL. If you are not the intended recipient you are
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      Message: 13
      Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:16:00 EST
      From: giddyup06@...
      Subject: Re: Re: steel flange

      I can get brass flanges all day long in any size you want up to 36 inch.

      Chris Richard


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      Message: 14
      Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:19:39 EST
      From: giddyup06@...
      Subject: Re: Re: steel flange

      And these are sweat flanges..4 hole..you can either silfoss (recomended) or
      solder but make sure you use lead free.

      Chris Richard


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      Message: 15
      Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:19:03 -0600
      From: Ludwig <Bluestar792@...>
      Subject: Re: SV: SV: Continuous Column - works well !

      Living here in the USA I have noticed their is no commerical whiskey
      from Sweden in any of our liquor stores that I have seen. Could you
      pass along the names of some of Swedens better name brands. I do not
      recall ever seeing even one.

      Ludwig






      Johan Hemberg wrote:

      >
      > Hi
      >
      > I live in sweden. It's illegal to own a distiller here, or parts to a
      > distiller (but it's common anyway). No one really care much if you have
      > a still for domestic use, but if the police would find a continous still
      > it would probably become a problem. I don't know anyone that makes fuel
      > alcohol over here, I thought about it and I'll check if it's possible.
      > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?
      >
      > Johan
      >
      >
      > > I do not know where you live but in the USA if you get a fuel
      > > production permit from both the Federal and State governments and pay
      > > any tax due it is completely legal
      >
      >
      > Ludwig
      >
      > >
      > >
      > > It would be so fun to put temperarure probes all the way up the column
      > > and "see" the whole process in the computer. Why can't this hobby be
      > > legal (please God make it so =)
      > >
      > > Johan
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Finally had a chance to run my continuous still - and it went very
      > well.
      > >
      > > The basic idea is shown at http://homedistiller.org/cont.htm - I'll
      > try
      > >
      > > and get the photos developed in the next week or so.
      > >
      > > Basically its a 1L boiler, with an overflow. The feed point is 32cm
      > up
      > > from the boiler, and there is 80cm above the feedpoint to the
      > condensor
      > > (too short - needs to be taller). The idea is that the boiler puts
      > out
      > > a
      > > good flow of steam - this steam strips any alcohol from the incoming
      > > feed,
      > > and it goes up to the rectifying section as per normal. The fully
      > > stripped
      > > feed is now basically water - this makes it way down into the boiler,
      > > and
      > > out the overflow. The overflow is submerged, to prevent steam getting
      > > out,
      > > its inlet is above the element, so that there is no way the element
      > can
      > > be
      > > left dry, and it has a syphon breaker on it (a vent at the high point)
      > > so
      > > that the contents dont simply syphon out.
      > >
      > > The bottom boiler was very easy to control - just leave the boiler
      > > (1500W)
      > > running at max. Start it with just water in there, and its boiling at
      > > 100.0C Control the feedrate into the column by watching this lower
      > > boiler
      > > - if the temperature starts getting lower than 99.8C then there is too
      > > much
      > > alcohol getting down there, so slow the feed down a little. It was
      > good
      > >
      > > around 70 mL/min. The overflow is simply into a bucket sitting
      > beneath
      > > the
      > > still. Needs bailing out every hour or so. Because there is always a
      > > steady dribble of water out the overflow, you are always assured that
      > > the
      > > boiler is full and not boiling dry. Because the boiler is kept above
      > > 99.8
      > > (or > 100.0C), then you know that there is now alcohol getting down
      > that
      > >
      > > low, and thus none going out the drain. I collected some and measured
      > > it -
      > > couldnt discerne any alcohol present.
      > >
      > > The feed point has a loop of tube on the outside of the column, which
      > > dips
      > > down, then comes up into a wee funnel. The wash is feed at a steady
      > > dribble into the funnel. The dip in the tube acts as a vapour lock to
      > p
      > >
      > > revent steam coming out the column there. You cant dirrectly plumb
      > the
      > > fermentor into the column, as then there is no way to judge how fast
      > it
      > > is
      > > feeding. By dripping into the funnel, you can see how fast it is
      > > running.
      > > Inside the column, the feed point simply drips the feed into the
      > center
      > > of
      > > the column.
      > >
      > > Both the rectifying and stripping sections have scrubbers as packing.
      > > Fully insulated on the outside.
      > >
      > > Run the head like you normally would a Nixon-Stone head - start off at
      > > total reflux, until the purity increases, and the head temp has
      > dropped
      > > to
      > > 78.2 - 78.4C In my case, with such a short column (80cm), it was
      > never
      > > going to sustain that purity, so I ended up running the head at 80C
      > (82%
      > > ?)
      > > Open up the collection valve until the head temperature starts rising,
      > > then back off a little, to keep at the high purity. Do some simple
      > > maths -
      > > if the feed is at 16%, and you're collecting at 82%, then you expect
      > the
      > >
      > > collection to be about 1 drip for every 5 of feed. If you try and run
      > > it
      > > at too high a reflux ratio (eg try to push a short column to make very
      > > high
      > > purity), all that happens is that you overload the total column with
      > > alcohol, and it starts showing up in the boiler (temp drops) (and
      > > heading
      > > out the drain). I was collecting at about 5-8 mL/min
      > >
      > > Once its set up and running nicely, theres no fiddling to do - the
      > whole
      > >
      > > run is constant, with an even collection / reflux rate. Thats
      > because
      > > nothing ever changes - the feed maintains the same %, the boiler is
      > > always
      > > only boiling water, etc. About the only drop off was late in the run,
      > > when
      > > the flowrater out of the fermentor slowed a little as it ran out of
      > > head.
      > > That could be easily fixed by mounting the feed a bit higher - eg if
      > > the
      > > fermentor is going to drop 40cm, then the head change say from 1.4 to
      > > 1.0 m
      > > is far less difference than going from 0.4 to 0m head.
      > >
      > > Being such a small volume, you're up and running inside 10 minutes.
      > It
      > > doesnt matter if you're trying to run 10L or 100L through it, the same
      > > setup would work. With a feed rate of 70 mL/min, it took around 5-6
      > > hours
      > > to do 25L of wash - just a touch longer than what I'd expect for a
      > 1500W
      > >
      > > setup, but that involved a fair amount of frigging around, trying
      > > different
      > > settings etc. I'd expect I could run it faster if there was a taller
      > > stripping section (say 40-50cm), and also better purity (and faster)
      > > with a
      > > taller rectifying section (say 1.2 - 1.5m).
      > >
      > > I wont be using this still as a standard - it was no advantage over my
      > > standard 30L boiler etc, but interesting to prove that I could do it.
      > > Where it would be advantageos would be if I wanted to run more than
      > 25L
      > >
      > > through it in a single pass, if a quick startup/shut down was of
      > > benefit,
      > > or where, say for example, laws deemed that a still with less than 5L
      > > capacity werent stills ....
      > >
      > > The only controls needed are two thermometers - one in the boiler, and
      > > one
      > > in the head. Use the boiler one to set and control the feed rate, and
      > > the
      > > head one to control the collection rate. Couldn't be easier.
      > >
      > > Tony
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
      > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > To unsubscribe from this group send an email to
      > > distillers-unsubscribe@onelist.com
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
      > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
      >
      >
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      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 16
      Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 21:46:44 -0600
      From: Ludwig <Bluestar792@...>
      Subject: Re: SV: SV: Continuous Column - works well !



      Johan Hemberg wrote:

      > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?

      For the Federal Government the license is free. The tax payable on a
      gallon of alcohol was very little. I do not remember how much but it
      wasn't a problem. You could produce up to (I'm not to sure about this)
      around 10,000 gallon per year. Over that amount and you had to get a
      license for a bigger facility and that cost some money as well as a lot
      more paper to fill out.

      On the state level it was a completely different matter. The one and
      only state I ever called, wanted a $5,000 dollar bond. The tax was .23
      cents per gallon. What really chapped me was the fact that gasoline was
      taxed at .21 cents per gallon. The tax had to be paid monthly and you
      had to have it paid by the 10th of each month or your license was
      revolked. You were required to keep track of all grain grown, used or
      purchased for the production of alcohol, how many gallons were produced
      and on what day, and how much DDG&S you produced, how much DDG&S you
      sold or how much you fed your livestock. What kind and how much
      denaturant you purchased, where you got it, how much you paid for it,
      how much you used on each day and your total on hand of grain, natural
      alcohol, denaturant, denatured alcohol and DDG&S. Any changes you made
      to your still had to be reported and details given. You were also
      required to give a security plan. How you were going to keep people
      from stealing your alcohol and your plan had to be approved before your
      license would be granted.

      To be honest, I lost the fuel alcohol scent somewhere along the way. I
      still think about it on slower days when my mind wanders. I quickly
      focus on more pressing matter like food, water, shade. Maybe someday,
      but not anytime some! The secretary would cost me more than I would
      ever hope to save by producing my own fuel

      Ludwig




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 17
      Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:05:01 +1000
      From: "Robert N" <dinks_c@...>
      Subject: test

      Some mysterious reason this list has stopped emailing me from both new
      distiller and distiller.

      Have a great day!

      Robert



      [This message contained attachments]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 18
      Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:51:49 -0000
      From: "zuggetsr <zugget@...>" <zugget@...>
      Subject: Re: steel flange

      In the states, I just saw a 2" brass flange for $5 (USD) @ Home Depot.

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert <dinks_c@y...>"
      <dinks_c@y...> wrote:
      > You could also try a ships chandlery for brass fittings of similar
      > type.
      > Robert
      >
      > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, "c2h5oh_x <c2h5oh_x@y...>"
      > <c2h5oh_x@y...> wrote:
      > > I managed to find a 2" brass (threaded) floor flange at a
      > plumbing
      > > supply. So, something other then iron DOES exist. It was total
      > luck
      > > as it was the last one they had in stock and the guy at the shop
      > > indicated that it wasn't something they normally stock. I've been
      > > pretty happy with it. If you call around, maybe you can find one
      > > yourself. I payed $20 for mine.
      > >
      > > Picture:
      > >
      > >
      >
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Distillers/files/c2h5oh_x/2_inch_flange
      > .
      > > jpg
      > >
      > >
      > > Good luck!
      > >
      > > -CX
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Rocky S <hardrock37us@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > > Hi Folks, New guy here. Thinking about useing a steel
      > > > floor flange in 2" dia. to attach the colunm to the
      > > > lid. Looks like there will be about three threads
      > > > exposed to the vapors. Would this be a problem? I read
      > > > all the post about the steel drum, but this doesn't
      > > > seem to extream to me, or could it be trouble? I
      > > > bought it new, because I couldn't find anything else
      > > > to use, and this thing is getting into the wallet. Any
      > > > suggestions? Thanx for the great group, Rocko
      > > >
      > > > __________________________________________________
      > > > Do you Yahoo!?
      > > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
      > > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 19
      Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 15:56:56 +1100
      From: "Tim Kovac" <castrumnovum@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: steel flange



      [This message is not in displayable format]



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 20
      Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 04:58:45 -0000
      From: "zuggetsr <zugget@...>" <zugget@...>
      Subject: Gawchicken2001 plate still pictures?

      Gaw,

      Do you have these ready yet, I would love to see detail photos of
      your 4" plate still just like the rest of us.

      Scott



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 21
      Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 09:52:59 -0000
      From: "motie_d <motie_d@...>" <motie_d@...>
      Subject: Re: SV: SV: Continuous Column - works well !

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Ludwig <Bluestar792@n...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Johan Hemberg wrote:
      >
      > > How much do you have to pay to make fuel alcohol in USA?
      >
      > For the Federal Government the license is free. The tax payable on
      a
      > gallon of alcohol was very little. I do not remember how much but
      it
      > wasn't a problem. You could produce up to (I'm not to sure about
      this)
      > around 10,000 gallon per year. Over that amount and you had to get
      a
      > license for a bigger facility and that cost some money as well as a
      lot
      > more paper to fill out.
      >
      > On the state level it was a completely different matter. The one
      and
      > only state I ever called, wanted a $5,000 dollar bond. The tax
      was .23
      > cents per gallon. What really chapped me was the fact that
      gasoline was
      > taxed at .21 cents per gallon. The tax had to be paid monthly and
      you
      > had to have it paid by the 10th of each month or your license was
      > revolked. You were required to keep track of all grain grown, used
      or
      > purchased for the production of alcohol, how many gallons were
      produced
      > and on what day, and how much DDG&S you produced, how much DDG&S
      you
      > sold or how much you fed your livestock. What kind and how much
      > denaturant you purchased, where you got it, how much you paid for
      it,
      > how much you used on each day and your total on hand of grain,
      natural
      > alcohol, denaturant, denatured alcohol and DDG&S. Any changes you
      made
      > to your still had to be reported and details given. You were also
      > required to give a security plan. How you were going to keep
      people
      > from stealing your alcohol and your plan had to be approved before
      your
      > license would be granted.
      >
      > To be honest, I lost the fuel alcohol scent somewhere along the
      way. I
      > still think about it on slower days when my mind wanders. I
      quickly
      > focus on more pressing matter like food, water, shade. Maybe
      someday,
      > but not anytime some! The secretary would cost me more than I
      would
      > ever hope to save by producing my own fuel
      >
      > Ludwig



      They scared me away too. And you gave the short condensed version of
      the requirements!

      Motie



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 22
      Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 09:56:40 -0000
      From: "motie_d <motie_d@...>" <motie_d@...>
      Subject: The Tax Poem

      The Tax Poem

      Tax his land, tax his wage,
      Tax his bed in which he lays.
      Tax his tractor, tax his mule,
      Teach him taxes is the rule.

      Tax his cow, tax his goat,
      Tax his pants, tax his coat.
      Tax his ties, tax his shirts,
      Tax his work, tax his dirt.

      Tax his chew, tax his smoke,
      Teach him taxes are no joke.
      Tax his car, tax his ass,
      Tax the roads he must pass.

      Tax his tobacco, tax his drink,
      Tax him if he tries to think.
      Tax his booze, tax his beers,
      If he cries, tax his tears.

      Tax his bills, tax his gas,
      Tax his notes, tax his cash.
      Tax him good and let him know
      That after taxes, he has no dough.

      If he hollers, tax him more,
      Tax him until he's good and sore.
      Tax his coffin, tax his grave,
      Tax the sod in which he lays.

      Put these words upon his tomb,
      "Taxes drove me to my doom!"
      And when he's gone, we won't relax,
      We'll still be after the inheritance TAX.



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 23
      Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:01:37 -0000
      From: "fred_onion <sambucca@...>" <sambucca@...>
      Subject: Re: 100 mm (4") Diam. Column

      Hi Robert,

      If you get the extended column that is available with your still, it
      will increase the performance and alc%.

      Mikes comment regarding the path of the vapour condensing back into
      the boiler is quite correct from my observations.

      To help overcome this when teasing out the scrubbers, I take
      particular care to ensure there are no gaps in the SS media at the
      sides of the column. I also use scrubbers in tandum with the marbles,
      which allows pockets of vapour up the still to develop, and seems to
      assist the still performance. (A layering effect)

      Fred

      --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Robert Stam <Robert.Stam@b...>
      wrote:
      > Hi Mike, greetings for the new year.
      >
      > I have a few ideas for plates. That reminds me of the viewing ports
      in those
      > German stills we got documentation on. I believe that they would be
      for
      > checking the condensate fluid levels in each tray, since the level
      is
      > adjustable with an overflow pipe.
      >
      > Cheers, Rob
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Mike Nixon [mailto:mike@s...]
      > Sent: Friday, 3 January 2003 9:15 a.m.
      > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [Distillers] 100 mm (4") Diam. Column
      >
      >
      > Robert Stam wrote:
      > Subject: [Distillers] 100 mm (4") Diam. Column
      >
      > Mike Nixon/Mike McCaw mention channelling in wide diameter columns
      and the
      > need for spreaders. Do you mean like plates with perforations for
      vapour to
      > come up and reflux to drip down, placed at intervals?
      > ===================================
      > Hi Rob. A very happy New Year to you too!
      >
      > We have noticed that the wider a column, the greater the tendency
      is for
      > liquid reflux to form 'preferred' paths back down through the
      packing. Once
      > these are established, the reflux zips down rapidly back to the
      boiler and
      > therefore takes no part in the reboiling that we want. It seems to
      be a bit
      > like 'choking', but without the blockage that 'choking'
      produces ... in
      > fact, quite the opposite.
      >
      > Shaped packing is apparently designed in all its wierd and
      wonderful shapes
      > to try and counter this, and I'm sure they have managed to overcome
      it to
      > some degree. However, once a column gets too big, trays become the
      norm in
      > order to manage the reflux flow. Perforated plates set in the
      packing at
      > intervals might help a bit to discourage this 'channelling', but
      the snag is
      > that they might also introduce greater impedance to vapor flow if
      the holes
      > are too small. However, this is something you might like to
      explore, as
      > that is just an 'uneducated guess'. If you do try some
      experiments, I'm
      > sure we would all be eager to learn what you find.
      >
      > Cheers!
      > Mike N
      >
      >
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      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 24
      Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 19:13:09 +0800
      From: Gil Hardwick <gruagach@...>
      Subject: Re: Re: steel flange

      Sorry to butt in here, again, but this flange crap has been going
      on for weeks.

      For Heck's sake, nobody here is from any Third World economy
      battling to get a half-decent meal once a week.

      Any hardware supplier on our part can get us anything we want,
      from anywhere on the planet.

      All you have to do is roll in there asking the right questions about
      what it is you want to buy, then persist in making sure they order
      it in for you at the price you're prepared to pay.

      Really, all you want is a 2" brass stupid bloody flange. I would have
      been more concerned myself about what thread they supplied, and
      even then happy enough to turn it out and sweat a pipe fitting in with
      a bit of silver solder. So long as it does the job.

      Don't worry too much if it is made in China. My wife is Chinese, and
      I know a lot about what is being manufactured there at the top end of
      the market.

      All it has to be is brass. Fake bloody pot scrubbers is bullshit . . .

      Gil

      At 03:56 PM 3/01/03 +1100, you wrote:

      >In Australia as well?
      >
      >Regards,
      >
      >Tim
      >
      > >From: giddyup06@...
      > >Reply-To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > >To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
      > >Subject: Re: [Distillers] Re: steel flange
      > >Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 18:16:00 EST
      > >
      > >I can get brass flanges all day long in any size you want up to 36 inch.
      > >
      > >Chris Richard



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